Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 11 votes

Official Group Lotus Thread


  • Please log in to reply
553 replies to this topic

#101 iotar

iotar
  • Member

  • 2,153 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 08 October 2011 - 18:37

Am I the only one who thinks this 'close cooperation' could be the thing that triggered Ferrari's 'doubts' over Lotus/Renault name change? Lotus is a competitor both on track and on the supercars market (is it a serious one is another matter) and Ferrari is not a team/company that would generously make life easier for their rivals.

I don't know about that but HRT, Ferrari, Sauber worked together on an off-throttle blown diffusor ban. HRT "threatened" with lawsuits (who cares about HRT), Sauber protested later and Ferrari was probably main force behind it all.

I don't really understand the real problem with the name changes. Official explanation "image of F1 in danger" is obviously bogus.


Advertisement

#102 Red17

Red17
  • Member

  • 3,299 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 08 October 2011 - 18:59

All nice and dandy but... how will Genii fork the money when all we heard was stories about loans on Genii?
GL shares must be really cheap these days...

And why do I have the feeling that Proton is in a hurry to unload GL?

#103 gm914

gm914
  • Member

  • 6,046 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 08 October 2011 - 19:00

I don't really understand the real problem with the name changes. Official explanation "image of F1 in danger" is obviously bogus.


True.
I would think (looking at you HRT) having an F1 car that is slower than a GP2 car would put the "image of F1 in danger" more than a couple of teams wanting to change chassis names & team apparel :rolleyes:

#104 Crestie

Crestie
  • Member

  • 91 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 08 October 2011 - 21:32

I think what's actually happening here, and has been for a long time, is that Genii and GL are keeping their cards very, very close to their chests which has forced journalists (and Saward, who doesn't deserve that title) to infer 'stories' from what little they do know and then imply them to be based on some sort of fact.

There have been so many lies written, and not just on this thread, that the truth is probably a million miles away from most of the content here.

I keep reading how Genii and LRGP are sh*t out of money. There was even a gross mistruth quoted as fact on here that the staff had not been paid for one month. I doubt a company which is well into a multi-million pound simulator development (including new buildings), which includes close collusion with another F1 team, are in any sort of financial desperation, tbh.

#105 mechadaniel

mechadaniel
  • Member

  • 729 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 08 October 2011 - 22:14

There was even a gross mistruth quoted as fact on here that the staff had not been paid for one month.


I don't remember anyone writing that, but I posted after hearing from someone in F1, that last year on at least one occasion they missed payroll.
Curious, because looking at your past posts you aren't an Enstone employee, and in fact if anything know less about the situation than most on this thread - that being the case, tell us why above is not true - put up, or shut up.


I doubt a company which is well into a multi-million pound simulator development (including new buildings), which includes close collusion with another F1 team, are in any sort of financial desperation, tbh.

Really? So what about all the rumours earlier in the season that the team hadn't paid for it's engines, which has just been confirmed by the team with a load of fudge about how it was a deliberate ploy to force Renault into selling it's shares...

You don't withhold funds from your engine supplier unless you are nuts or have no money - and that the engines finally being paid for was followed by the sprouting of GL logo's all over the car was pretty transparent :)

#106 Crestie

Crestie
  • Member

  • 91 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 08 October 2011 - 22:26

I don't remember anyone writing that, but I posted after hearing from someone in F1, that last year on at least one occasion they missed payroll.
Curious, because looking at your past posts you aren't an Enstone employee, and in fact if anything know less about the situation than most on this thread - that being the case, tell us why above is not true - put up, or shut up.


It is a fact that no payroll has been missed, and it was stated and repeated previously on the older GL vs TL thread. If you could (you can't) provide any evidence to the contrary I would state, without any hesitation, that it was utterly fabricated. I would also be prepared to stand up in court and call you (or the supplier of your evidence) a liar with no fear of legal recrimination. I don't offer this as opinion and it's not a debatable fact.


Really? So what about all the rumours earlier in the season that the team hadn't paid for it's engines, which has just been confirmed by the team with a load of fudge about how it was a deliberate ploy to force Renault into selling it's shares...

You don't withhold funds from your engine supplier unless you are nuts or have no money - and that the engines finally being paid for was followed by the sprouting of GL logo's all over the car was pretty transparent :)


Renaultsport would withhold their engine supply if the units weren't being paid for and they would certainly not include them on their list of customers for future V8s and V6s if they were not happy with the arrangement.


#107 mechadaniel

mechadaniel
  • Member

  • 729 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 09 October 2011 - 01:00

It is a fact that no payroll has been missed, and it was stated and repeated previously on the older GL vs TL thread.


That someone posted that it didn't happen on an internet forum doesn't make it a fact!

Someone I respect in F1 told a group of people including me during the Silverstone weekend that the team missed payroll last year. now if you can tell me that you work for Enstone, or a family member works for Enstone and disputes this then fine, otherwise stop making accusations about people telling lies.


Renaultsport would withhold their engine supply if the units weren't being paid for


For all you they did exactly did that.

they would certainly not include them on their list of customers for future V8s and V6s if they were not happy with the arrangement.

So they would be happy that a customer withheld payment? When was the last time you read anything positive from the manufactures about LRGP?

#108 Kelateboy

Kelateboy
  • Member

  • 5,791 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 09 October 2011 - 02:39

But do not Group Lotus have the funds and resources needed to run an F1 team. That is why they went with the whole "sponsor a team and claim ownership" thing they are doing with Renault.
Not to mention that nearly every other thing that they are supposedly doing keeps getting delayed/

Group Lotus/Proton does not have the money to run an F1 team. For that to happen, they need to team up with Petronas. As it is, Petronas is not remotely interested to join the bandwagon as they are happier to be associated with a marque name like MB Daimler.

BTW, Proton is not even the no.1 national car company in Malaysia - Perodua is.


#109 mechadaniel

mechadaniel
  • Member

  • 729 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 10 October 2011 - 11:00

http://joesaward.wor...-in-lotus-land/

Lotus Renault GP owner Gerard Lopez seems to have concluded that the best course of action is to get control of the company that is sponsoring the team and get rid of CEO Dany Bahar


Not sure what to think about this - has the potential to go horribly wrong in a few years and end up with Lotus Cars ending up like Saab :confused:

#110 Crestie

Crestie
  • Member

  • 91 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 10 October 2011 - 17:18

Someone I respect in F1 told a group of people including me during the Silverstone weekend that the team missed payroll last year.

Then he was either lying or misinformed. Either way he was wrong. My LRGP sources are both impeccable and multiple.

#111 DinocoBlue

DinocoBlue
  • Member

  • 421 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 10 October 2011 - 18:21

http://joesaward.wor...-in-lotus-land/



Not sure what to think about this - has the potential to go horribly wrong in a few years and end up with Lotus Cars ending up like Saab :confused:

Does make you wonder how it will all end up. This whole saga has had that many twists and turns its hard to say what'll happen next.

I wonder if TF is playing the long game and thinks he can pick up Group cheap if Genii don't make a go of it?

The other alternative (and a wild idea and not rumoured) is that Team Lotus Ventures is part of the consortium with Genii to take control of Group. :drunk:

Edited by DinocoBlue, 10 October 2011 - 18:23.


#112 August

August
  • Member

  • 2,030 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 10 October 2011 - 18:34

Does make you wonder how it will all end up. This whole saga has had that many twists and turns its hard to say what'll happen next.

I wonder if TF is playing the long game and thinks he can pick up Group cheap if Genii don't make a go of it?

The other alternative (and a wild idea and not rumoured) is that Team Lotus Ventures is part of the consortium with Genii to take control of Group. :drunk:


I just wonder what would Tony do with two, quite similar, car brands?

#113 DinocoBlue

DinocoBlue
  • Member

  • 421 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 10 October 2011 - 18:41

Well I'm no expert, but I guess it would be possible to run them as complimentary marques.

#114 mechadaniel

mechadaniel
  • Member

  • 729 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 11 October 2011 - 00:21

My LRGP sources are both impeccable and multiple.


Your sources?

:rotfl:

See that's the magic of internet forums, you can instantly see what someone has posted in the past - not one of your posts on this forum contain anything but opinion - at least in the past you added 'IMO' or 'This is just speculation'...

At least one other person who posted on the now closed Court case thread was present when the comment about missed payroll was made, by someone with a lot of credibility in F1. If you think they are not correct by all means tell us so, but do not accuse people of lying on a public forum.

#115 mechadaniel

mechadaniel
  • Member

  • 729 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 11 October 2011 - 00:31

I just wonder what would Tony do with two, quite similar, car brands?


Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, I don't see what he gains from involvement with Lotus Cars in the future - there is a lot that can be done with the Caterham brand as well as the 7, from bicycles to electric cars - GL comes with a lot of baggage...

#116 TennisUK

TennisUK
  • Member

  • 1,772 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 11 October 2011 - 07:20

http://www.autocar.c...AllCars/259509/

In the UK, Lotus sales are struggling, with just 272 cars registered in the first eight months of 2011, compared with 358 in the same period last year. That’s 24 per cent down in an overall market that’s down six per cent.


Perhaps Dany Bahar's strategy of criticising the current cars hasn't worked out so well on the forecourt. And why does Dany Bahar need a mentor?!

#117 mechadaniel

mechadaniel
  • Member

  • 729 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 11 October 2011 - 08:04

http://www.autocar.c...AllCars/259509/
Perhaps Dany Bahar's strategy of criticising the current cars hasn't worked out so well on the forecourt. And why does Dany Bahar need a mentor?!


With yet another impending Evora refresh nobody would want to buy the current model which can't help - but ignoring the 'fantasy 5', they do have some cracking cars in the pipeline, the V6 2012 Exige should sell a few units.

#118 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 11 October 2011 - 08:09

It seems that now BMW is moving into this mess and pinching the fruit. Any deals between lopez and BMW?

#119 Red17

Red17
  • Member

  • 3,299 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 11 October 2011 - 08:45

And why does Dany Bahar need a mentor?!

The article speaks for itself doesnt it?
No overseas numbers, so outside the UK they must have been worse. More confirmation that Bahar's master plan is filled with nothing.

Taking the word on that article it means damage control started already and the new refreshed Lotuses are most likely the result of this ex BMW trying to sort out the mess.

And for a change the new guy is talking sense too. Look at his quotes, he is talking about now and the cars of the present and he is talking about something that Mr. Bahar never spoke this far: money, this guy is quite spot on when he says they need to sell now and they need to make the cars atractive. He spoke of work, not of glamour. Actually, he goes as far as to say the name is good but no one buys it.

Why didnt Proton get this guy instead in the first place?

Edited by Red17, 11 October 2011 - 08:45.


Advertisement

#120 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 11 October 2011 - 08:56

Same here, I have this feeling that Bahar's position is now transforming into other field by this appointment. Just selling 230 cars in GB,... Quite refreshing tho for Lotus Fans that there are exact numbers being told to us and being shown how things might be turning around.

Also it seems that Tony has decided in anyways not to work on Lotus brand anymore. Good man makes brave decision.

#121 August

August
  • Member

  • 2,030 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 11 October 2011 - 15:23

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, I don't see what he gains from involvement with Lotus Cars in the future - there is a lot that can be done with the Caterham brand as well as the 7, from bicycles to electric cars - GL comes with a lot of baggage...


Lotus brand would've probable been better when it comes to marketing. For me Caterham was quite unknown car brand when Tony bought it whereas Lotus is one of the most iconic car brands. But, Tony didn't manage buy GL, and now he's obviously gonna rebrand TL to Caterham, which I wouldn't suppose him to do if he were trying to buy GL, as Lotus would be the main brand of his car companies in that case. And in Caterham he has a company without debt baggage.

Anyway, I wonder what would those Genii-Lotuses be like. Would they be Bahar-Lotuses, those wanna-be Porsches, or would they be more traditional Lotuses?

#122 TennisUK

TennisUK
  • Member

  • 1,772 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 11 October 2011 - 18:52

The poor sales of Group Lotus cars comes off the back of unprecedented (in the modern era) advertising spend and of course F1 involvement, making it even harder to comprehend.

#123 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 11 October 2011 - 19:34

Lotus brand would've probable been better when it comes to marketing. For me Caterham was quite unknown car brand when Tony bought it whereas Lotus is one of the most iconic car brands. But, Tony didn't manage buy GL, and now he's obviously gonna rebrand TL to Caterham, which I wouldn't suppose him to do if he were trying to buy GL, as Lotus would be the main brand of his car companies in that case. And in Caterham he has a company without debt baggage.

Anyway, I wonder what would those Genii-Lotuses be like. Would they be Bahar-Lotuses, those wanna-be Porsches, or would they be more traditional Lotuses?


IMHO the current models does have very little to do with ACBC Lotus cars,...

#124 Mohican

Mohican
  • Member

  • 732 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 11 October 2011 - 21:38

Group Lotus is now sponsoring the "Renault" F1 team, KV Racing in Indycars (Takuma Sato) - and also the frontrunning ART team in GP2. So, East question: where does the money come from ?



#125 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 11 October 2011 - 21:39

Bank Loan, said to be 400 mil USD

#126 peacockantony

peacockantony
  • Member

  • 1,343 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 12 October 2011 - 11:39

Bank Loan, said to be 400 mil USD

They didn't get any money from the UK. Tells you something doesn't it.

#127 WBarnato

WBarnato
  • Member

  • 84 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 12 October 2011 - 12:25

Oh dear - not another twist in the story?

http://paultan.org/2...rumours-untrue/

This should keep us entertained during those long dark nights!

#128 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 12 October 2011 - 12:37

They didn't get any money from the UK. Tells you something doesn't it.


Yes I thought Saward said that three (or two) Malay bank gave money to Bahar's plan. No GB company wold want to believe that the plan to come true... far from it... It is like a out of blue...


Oh dear - not another twist in the story?

http://paultan.org/2...rumours-untrue/

This should keep us entertained during those long dark nights!


Oh dear indeed. Bahar to remain in its place? I thought Dany was on his way out?

For Genii it is now becoming very strange, as Renault is about to renamed to Lotus that Genii does not own neither have share in the team. All what there is is this Lotus Sponsorship. I rather call it Genii GP at this point. Lotus Genii GP, which should be a subject to be renamed when the out fit is sold to another company.

BTW have someone cried to his dady? :lol: :rotfl:



#129 WBarnato

WBarnato
  • Member

  • 84 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 12 October 2011 - 14:06

Initially Lotus was going to buy the Renault team, which kind of made sense, sort of. Then we heard the rumours, and more rumours, and then for good measure some more rumours, culminating in this report from James Allen.

http://www.jamesalle...m-future-in-f1/

The interesting bit was that Dany Bahar did not seem to be in love with Formula one, and from the article it seems as though he was prepared to wait and see.

This brings us up to the news that has been circulating like a pheasant shot out of the sky for the past month or so. I suppose Genii could facilitate Bahar’s plans, but I don’t see why either Lux or Lopez would want to buy Lotus. The obviously have form with the attempted take over of Saab, but I don’t believe Saab were in debt to the tune that Lotus are.

Joe Saward has obliviously added some ingredients to the pie, but then again he was adamant that when Lotus Racing were formed they would be moving back to Ketteringham Hall.

http://joesaward.wor...us-and-renault/

So we’re left none the wiser. A name change is on the cards and up for discussion, but am I the only one that is doubting whether the Renault/Lotus/Genii combo can actually make it to the grid next year what with the loss in car sales and huge debts?

The other thing was that there was a second round of regional aid up for grabs to which Lotus submitted a proposal. I don’t know whether this has been successful or not. However, if I was dishing out public money for regional development I think I would look very poorly to see it then plastered all over a Formula one racing car, or a Le Mans… oh wait a minute they’ve stopped that one!


#130 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 12 October 2011 - 14:21

It is a due logica course of development, at least to me, that Genii buys into Lotus if it were to name his racing team Lotus. I am assuming that the FOTA and FIA has asked very comforting question to Genii that you would want to name your team to your business profile, otherwise, it does not make sense...
Like I said before. why on earth should you name your racing team under sponsor who may or my not commit to the future as long as you have in your mind. At least that would be the view of other teams. Sponsors comes and goes. In case if Lotus decided to quit sponsoring years of two earlier due to their financial status what should you do to your constructor's name? Genii will exclude bunch of possibility to take a new sponsor at the very moment his team is called Lotus. I assume Lada would not want it, Neither Honda Neither Toyota Neither.... on and on and on...



Mess... Mess... Huge Mess... Now Genii is in trouble, if Behar were to threaten Lopez dat Lotus will pull the plug i case if the team is not changed it's name in to Lotus.

Edited by One, 12 October 2011 - 14:22.


#131 Red17

Red17
  • Member

  • 3,299 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 12 October 2011 - 15:46

So once again Proton comes upfront and shots down yet another (weird) sale rumour, but more interesting is this bit that I underlined:

Through this positive synergy, our priority now is to ensure that the Lotus Business Turnaround Plan is executed according to schedule and that both parties are committed to its success.

Surprise surprise, there is an objective AND there is a timetable to be met.

#132 iotar

iotar
  • Member

  • 2,153 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 12 October 2011 - 16:48

So it was just another rumour invented by journalist with particular sympathies.

BTW I didn't know Group Lotus had so many fans.
Why does this thread even exist in RACING COMMENTS section? It's just another sponsor of one of F1 teams. You might as well start one about Mercedes cars or Air Asia. What does it have to do with F1 or motorsport racing?

#133 August

August
  • Member

  • 2,030 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 12 October 2011 - 17:01

Why does this thread even exist in RACING COMMENTS section? It's just another sponsor of one of F1 teams. You might as well start one about Mercedes cars or Air Asia. What does it have to do with F1 or motorsport racing?


Good question, in fact GL has motorsport program, so this is a motorsport related thread.

#134 peacockantony

peacockantony
  • Member

  • 1,343 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 12 October 2011 - 17:35

Good question, in fact GL has motorsport program, so this is a motorsport related thread.

Granted but a large part of the program are just sponsorship deals.

#135 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 13 October 2011 - 09:14

Good question, in fact GL has motorsport program, so this is a motorsport related thread.


GL recently has been making strange sounds regarding how a racing team operates. In its ownership, in its branding, in its money structure... Renault (of True French car company) has expressed its concern on the war LRGP is operating and so on, pressure in how GL operates in Grand Prix Grid raise high, IMHO in such a height that it can influence future of the The Formula One Racing Team based in Enstone. ( = FORTE) Thus this is a relevant thread to remain on board, .... IMHO...

#136 mechadaniel

mechadaniel
  • Member

  • 729 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 13 October 2011 - 14:44

So it was just another rumour invented by journalist with particular sympathies.


Can't imagine who you mean, but I think you are wrong :)

The rumour seemed to grow after an Autocar report in which when Bahar was asked about it:

http://www.autocar.c...AllCars/259496/

When asked by Autocar about rumours of a possible takeover of Group Lotus by Genii, Bahar responded: "I can only say this: When we made the announcement about our involvement in Lotus Renault GP we made it clear that this was the start of a close relationship and this journey continues."


That led to Autosport speaking to Boullier:

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/95177

Boullier said about the possibility of Genii Capital taking over Group Lotus: "It is another rumour. I like this one."


Autosport took that comment and turned it into an article titled "Renault's Gerard Lopez poised to buy into Group Lotus" which started:

The Renault Formula 1 team is poised to forge much closer ties with Group Lotus, AUTOSPORT has learned, with sources suggesting the outfit's owner Gerard Lopez is to take a financial stake in the sportscar manufacturer.


Dunno, honest mistake, or Boullier/Bahar taking the press for a ride again?

The "with sources suggesting" bit in the Autocar article is interesting :)

#137 WBarnato

WBarnato
  • Member

  • 84 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 13 October 2011 - 21:48

Well here's something motorsport related that Lotus are getting involved in

http://paultan.org/2...tory-kart-team/

I had to check the date!

This whole thing... everything... is now beyond a farse!

#138 TennisUK

TennisUK
  • Member

  • 1,772 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 13 October 2011 - 21:55

Well here's something motorsport related that Lotus are getting involved in

The production of karts and components is licensed by Group Lotus to Wildkart, specialists in aeronautics precision engineering since 1996 and manufacturer of karts since 2002.

Sounds familiar...

#139 August

August
  • Member

  • 2,030 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 13 October 2011 - 22:05

Again another sponsorship/licencing deal from GL. If I understood that correctly, Wildkart manufactures Lotus karts, and obviously GL pays them, and the team is run by Jefra Racing. At least that kart's livery looked more JPS-like than LRGP's livery.

Edited by August, 13 October 2011 - 22:06.


Advertisement

#140 gm914

gm914
  • Member

  • 6,046 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 13 October 2011 - 22:32

LMAO What do you think Bahar's going to do once he learns his competition will be a kart manufacturer called Tony Kart?

Posted Image

Posted Image

#141 Red17

Red17
  • Member

  • 3,299 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 14 October 2011 - 14:21

Fernandes speaks to www.formula1.com

First half is the usual mombo jumbo/we are doing great. Second is much more interesting as it openly tackles the Lotus vs Lotus case.

This is the first time Fernandes openly admits that he is changing the name, but leaves the decision to others.

A few highlights:

The original idea was to do that with Group Lotus, but that obviously went spectacularly wrong, so we found a very elegant solution in Caterham and now we’re sorting out the issues with Group Lotus so we can all move on in a positive way.

I think it's quite clear that Fernandes will put all his energy in Caterham, I dont see him getting GL in the future.

When Karun’s in Moscow people ask him what it’s like driving with Vitaly Petrov, and I get congratulated for a GP2 win that unfortunately was not one of ours.

This is a bit funny the way Fernandes puts it. So the problem is not the name itself, its being confused with the outfit.

I do wonder if this means the end of BRG as well.

This will be decided by the higher authorities, and we put our faith in their decision to do the right thing for Formula One. Now we just want to do the right thing and stop the confusion. I think that’s what everyone wants so let’s see what happens.

Deal is done I guess, nothing much left but to sort paperwork and bribes for other teams that are unhappy.
But....

I honestly don’t know what happens from here, but I do know that if somebody else owns the name in the future it will be the right people, using it for the right reasons, and if we have played a part in helping it find its natural home then I am happy.

Kinda cryptic message here, perhaps a hint that Fernandes forced Genii to take up the Lotus chassis name?

#142 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 14 October 2011 - 14:38

Bahar is a sponsor of Genii, of Enstone based F1 team, and Genii is the owner of Team Lotus name... Group Lotus, yet again not the new owner of Team Lotus... !

#143 TennisUK

TennisUK
  • Member

  • 1,772 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 14 October 2011 - 16:44

Kinda cryptic message here, perhaps a hint that Fernandes forced Genii to take up the Lotus chassis name?

Or maybe to Classic Team Lotus..

#144 gm914

gm914
  • Member

  • 6,046 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 14 October 2011 - 16:50

Or maybe to Classic Team Lotus..

Now that would be perfect!

#145 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 14 October 2011 - 16:56

But Renault cannot be Renault?

Not that I want Genii to take Team Lotus name tho. kinda good for Team Lotus not to appear any more...

#146 Red17

Red17
  • Member

  • 3,299 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 14 October 2011 - 16:57

Now that would be perfect!

And it would make sense, since Classic Team Lotus is suposedly keeping the old records.
Fernandes is getting an habbit of «returning things» to Clive.
Not that Clive Chapman has been the must upright person in the subject.

#147 Red17

Red17
  • Member

  • 3,299 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 14 October 2011 - 17:01

But Renault cannot be Renault?

In theory yes, but reading all the stuff that has come and gone one gets the impression that the «real renault» would like to see it gone.

#148 Kelateboy

Kelateboy
  • Member

  • 5,791 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 15 October 2011 - 01:11

The poor sales of Group Lotus cars comes off the back of unprecedented (in the modern era) advertising spend and of course F1 involvement, making it even harder to comprehend.

It is mind boggling that the sales could be that low with all the money Proton Group puts into advertising of Lotus brand in F1 and elsewhere....

#149 peacockantony

peacockantony
  • Member

  • 1,343 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 15 October 2011 - 12:50

It is mind boggling that the sales could be that low with all the money Proton Group puts into advertising of Lotus brand in F1 and elsewhere....

Being in F1 doesn't equate to high car sales, just ask Honda and Toyota. Lotus cars are a niche car, only people that want one buy one, it is not like Ferrari, they are a prestige brand.
The car sales aren't being held by the world financial situation either. The number of sales are going to drop even more IF they launch their new line-up of Ferrari/Porsche/Lambo copies, because they will have totally alienated their current buyers!

#150 One

One
  • Member

  • 6,527 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 15 October 2011 - 15:12

In theory yes, but reading all the stuff that has come and gone one gets the impression that the «real renault» would like to see it gone.


Tony paid much to Get Team Lotus Name for this, I can't really see how Classic Team lotus would want to get the name. If it were given by Tony to Clive, He will most likely sell it to Bahar for makingn more money, Clive and the family was the very first one to abandon Team Lotus idea, so why should they fight now? As a mater of fact, Chapman Family supported Bahar fpr legal battle.




Being in F1 doesn't equate to high car sales, just ask Honda and Toyota. Lotus cars are a niche car, only people that want one buy one, it is not like Ferrari, they are a prestige brand.
The car sales aren't being held by the world financial situation either. The number of sales are going to drop even more IF they launch their new line-up of Ferrari/Porsche/Lambo copies, because they will have totally alienated their current buyers!


Toyota and Honda sells their car very well, well enough to found reestablishment from the shock, I understood? Unfortunately for Lotus Cars at a moment the name value is higher than it's car sells.