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Lewis and Jenson scorecard 2011 (merged)


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#3951 TurboF1

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 23:10

@ Rocket

And Lewis CLEARLY finished behind both of his (at the time) reigning world champion teammates too. I'm sure Rocket has noticed that. It's funny for all his bleating about Jenson is easier on his equipment etc, How come Jenson had less retirements than Lewis, and still ended up behind him in points? How come Jenson never stuck it on pole in 2010, When Lewis managed it? How come Jenson NEVER looked like threatening to win a single dry GP all year?


How do you explain that, pretty much every time Lewis botched an overtake, crashed into the wall, drove into the wrong pitbox (oh wait...) shredded his tyres, lunched his brakes, took a sledgehammer to the innards of his gearbox, drove his car till the wheel literally fell off, spun 5 times in the rain etc etc JENSON BENEFITTED AND WAS STILL BEATEN IN EVERY CATEGORY WORTH MEASURING LAST YEAR?

Qualifying? Lewis

Poles? Lewis

Wins? Lewis

Podiums? Lewis

Finished ahead when both finished? Lewis

Fastest Laps? Lewis

Points? Lewis


ALL BY FLUKE???????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:eek: Good God Jenson must be the worst driver ever to sit in an F1 car since the dawn of time by your reckoning. And here I thought he was actually a fine F1 driver. Silly me


not to rehash my old post, but im still waiting for a legit answer to this.

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#3952 fenixracing

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 07:08

not to rehash my old post, but im still waiting for a legit answer to this.

Your post doesnt make any sense.
2007 He did mighty good for a rooki<--- this is the key word
2010 well the mclaren wasnt realy a rocketship most of the time they had the third best car on the grid
but still both time's he has beaten his teammates (alonso was draw but still for a rooki verry impressive)
so wath is the point your making that he is better than those wdc

#3953 whambham

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 09:42

Welcome to the forum, looks like you will fit in this thread quite nicely!


Thanks mate :wave:

#3954 zack1994

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 13:10

His first set of hards he was setting similar times as JB who was on softs...that was incredible considering the soft is around 1sec per lap faster...

Not really true the softs were a second quicker in quail but in the race softs and the hards were alot closer on pace.

Edited by zack1994, 29 April 2011 - 19:43.


#3955 Rocket73

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 15:01

not to rehash my old post, but im still waiting for a legit answer to this.



Firstly - calm down.
Secondly - i have been over this a few times and all i get is abuse and angry 'smackdown' replies like you are trying to do here.


I am not going to explain it again just because you want to have a tantrum...

#3956 Con1

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 16:45

I am so old that I remember when this guys actually had to shift for real and a driver could grenade his engine by mis-shifting. I don't think a driver has much input over it's reliabilty anymore. There hasn't been enough reliabilty issues with the 25 or 26 to even have this argument in my mind.

But don't let me put a damper on the discussion....please continue. :smoking:

Join the club mate :|

#3957 pinkypants

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 16:57

Firstly - calm down.
Secondly - i have been over this a few times and all i get is abuse and angry 'smackdown' replies like you are trying to do here.


I am not going to explain it again just because you want to have a tantrum...



Have actually READ your own post there?! I'm not sure it's TurboF1 having the tantrum here :lol:

But if you would like to repeat the same unfounded opinions on rehash, please go ahead. Just don't expect people to take your opinions seriously. This thread is far, far too serious :rotfl:

#3958 Con1

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 17:13

Have actually READ your own post there?! I'm not sure it's TurboF1 having the tantrum here :lol:

But if you would like to repeat the same unfounded opinions on rehash, please go ahead. Just don't expect people to take your opinions seriously. This thread is far, far too serious :rotfl:

:up: :up: :up:

Get a grip guys!

#3959 Rocket73

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 17:27

Have actually READ your own post there?! I'm not sure it's TurboF1 having the tantrum here :lol:

But if you would like to repeat the same unfounded opinions on rehash, please go ahead. Just don't expect people to take your opinions seriously. This thread is far, far too serious :rotfl:


this is exactly what i am talking about...

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#3960 Rocket73

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 17:28

:up: :up: :up:

Get a grip guys!



yeah good point, get a grip - so much anger and abuse just because you don't agree with me. (not directed at you con1)

Edited by Rocket73, 29 April 2011 - 17:36.


#3961 Rocket73

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 17:35

I am so old that I remember when this guys actually had to shift for real and a driver could grenade his engine by mis-shifting. I don't think a driver has much input over it's reliabilty anymore. There hasn't been enough reliabilty issues with the 25 or 26 to even have this argument in my mind.

But don't let me put a damper on the discussion....please continue. :smoking:


Of course he does - these things are built the absolute limits. Look at this year's gearbox the Williams have come up with. These things are made as light as possible and just think about it for a second. A gear box made out of carbon fibre? That has to last 4/5 races?

A driver's style definitely has an affect.

#3962 jjcale

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 18:08

Firstly - calm down.
Secondly - i have been over this a few times and all i get is abuse and angry 'smackdown' replies like you are trying to do here.


I am not going to explain it again just because you want to have a tantrum...


Is this going to turn into some kind of meme...

#3963 Dunder

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 19:46

Of course he does - these things are built the absolute limits. Look at this year's gearbox the Williams have come up with. These things are made as light as possible and just think about it for a second. A gear box made out of carbon fibre? That has to last 4/5 races?

A driver's style definitely has an affect.


So we will just ignore the fact that gear changes are actually made by the ECU?

Gearboxes last year survived some mighty shunts including Barrichello ramming Alonso at Spa and Vettel spearing Button. It is true that Hamilton's gearbox did sustain damage after his collision with Webber in Singapore but that was the exception rather than the rule.

Of course F1 components are designed to be marginal, they always have been but please explain to me how a drivers style can affect a semi automatic sequential gearbox where shift timing is computer controlled.


#3964 robefc

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 19:46

Of course he does - these things are built the absolute limits. Look at this year's gearbox the Williams have come up with. These things are made as light as possible and just think about it for a second. A gear box made out of carbon fibre? That has to last 4/5 races?

A driver's style definitely has an affect.


As i've commented previously, i'm perfectly happy to give lewis the credit for the stellar reliability record of his mclaren over the last 4 and a bit years.  ;)

#3965 Rocket73

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 08:11

So we will just ignore the fact that gear changes are actually made by the ECU?

Gearboxes last year survived some mighty shunts including Barrichello ramming Alonso at Spa and Vettel spearing Button. It is true that Hamilton's gearbox did sustain damage after his collision with Webber in Singapore but that was the exception rather than the rule.

Of course F1 components are designed to be marginal, they always have been but please explain to me how a drivers style can affect a semi automatic sequential gearbox where shift timing is computer controlled.


You think that the only time a gearbox is stressed is when it actually changes gear? The real stress on a gearbox is when it's in drive and the harder you ride the kerbs, the harder you engine brake, the more agressive you are with the car in general the more punishment the gearbox takes. This is fairly obvious isn't it?

With the limited gearbox rule this is highly critical.

Lazy made a good post about this the other day. You should read it. http://forums.autosp...p;#entry4988828

It contained this:

http://www.formula1....005/4/2868.html

“The severe usage of the kerbs at the chicanes also makes reliability a key priority: if the car ‘lands' while still at full or even partial throttle, the shock loads in the transmission can cause failures of the driveshafts or the gear ratios themselves. Equally, we pay particular attention to the underside of the car which takes severe impacts on the kerbs: this can break bodywork stays, or damage parts such as the front wing end plates and the front legality tray which are mounted low on the car. We will check these regularly when the car returns to the garage.

#3966 Dunder

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 10:46

You think that the only time a gearbox is stressed is when it actually changes gear? The real stress on a gearbox is when it's in drive and the harder you ride the kerbs, the harder you engine brake, the more agressive you are with the car in general the more punishment the gearbox takes. This is fairly obvious isn't it?

With the limited gearbox rule this is highly critical.

Lazy made a good post about this the other day. You should read it. http://forums.autosp...p;#entry4988828

It contained this:

http://www.formula1....005/4/2868.html

“The severe usage of the kerbs at the chicanes also makes reliability a key priority: if the car ‘lands' while still at full or even partial throttle, the shock loads in the transmission can cause failures of the driveshafts or the gear ratios themselves. Equally, we pay particular attention to the underside of the car which takes severe impacts on the kerbs: this can break bodywork stays, or damage parts such as the front wing end plates and the front legality tray which are mounted low on the car. We will check these regularly when the car returns to the garage.


So it comes down to Lewis riding the kerbs harder than Jenson? That was enough to cause the failure of a brand new gearbox after 40 laps despite there being only one corner (the final chicane) where the kerbs are ridden at all?

Impacts of any kind will, of course, stress components on the car and that includes impacts from aggressively riding kerbs. These impacts are, however minor compared to the sort of stresses that are encountered in a crash. There were very few gearbox failures or changes forced on teams last year are a result of either. It is a similar story so far this year, even Petrov was able to use the same gearbox after his aerobatics in Malaysia. Aside from that I can see no evidence whatsoever (and I have looked carefully) of Hamilton being more aggressive over kerbs than anyone else at Suzuka or in Hungary.

All in all, I find your line of argument to be more than a bit of a reach.



#3967 P123

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 10:56

As i've commented previously, i'm perfectly happy to give lewis the credit for the stellar reliability record of his mclaren over the last 4 and a bit years. ;)


Yeah, only a 4% retirement rate due to unreliabillity. A stunning record. Maybe he needs to drive harder?  ;)

#3968 Rocket73

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 12:15

whatever...you guys are too sensitive to have a normal discussion about this...

#3969 klyster

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 12:28

whatever...you guys are too sensitive to have a normal discussion about this...


lol, a normal discussion?

That's a big ask under normal circumstances, but trying to prove Lewis is harder on his equipment than Jenson and expecting normal discussion is also reaching quite a bit.


How's that supposed to work?

Rocket: Lewis rides the kerbs harder than Jenson, thus his gearbox is more susceptible to lunching itself, wouldn't you agree?

Whomever: Why yes, I had never thought of it that way, what you say is interesting and I shall accept it as the truth, I love these normal discussions....

Really? In the Jenson vs Lewis thread of all places?

Edited by klyster, 30 April 2011 - 12:30.


#3970 Dunder

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 12:33

whatever...you guys are too sensitive to have a normal discussion about this...


Sensitive about what?
Who are "you guys"?

I can only speak for myself but I am a fan of the team regardless of who the drivers are and always have been.

You raised a point which I happen to disagree with and told you why. That is not being sensitive it is in fact what "normal discussion" is about, no?


#3971 hotstickyslick

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 12:35

whatever...you guys are too sensitive to have a normal discussion about this...

So in other words you've finally given up trying to assert such a silly argument?

#3972 gricey1981

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 12:44

Just to pour salt on opened wounds. I watched the last 25 laps or so of the chinese gp yesterday again and re Lewis TDG overtake of Jenson. It does seem that he was not alongside at all really. Infact he does seem quite far back. Jenson looks to turn in, sees Lewis there and backs off. I think I change my mind and agree with Brundle and say that Lewis TDG should probably thank Jenson for that one. I will say though that it was obvious he was going to get past at some point so there was no real need for Jenson to hold him up.

I also rewatched his pass of Vettel. How anyone can say that Lewis is not cerebral is beyond me. That pass was really well thought out. Vettel had no clue. what had happened.

I dont think many of the other drivers would have passed him there especially not for the lead.

Edited by gricey1981, 30 April 2011 - 12:44.


#3973 hotstickyslick

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 12:47

Just to pour salt on opened wounds. I watched the last 25 laps or so of the chinese gp yesterday again and re Lewis TDG overtake of Jenson. It does seem that he was not alongside at all really. Infact he does seem quite far back. Jenson looks to turn in, sees Lewis there and backs off. I think I change my mind and agree with Brundle and say that Lewis TDG should probably thank Jenson for that one. I will say though that it was obvious he was going to get past at some point so there was no real need for Jenson to hold him up.

For overtaking to be successful someone will always have to concede, so technically that logic should be applied to every single overtaking maneuver.

#3974 Kvothe

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 13:04

For overtaking to be successful someone will always have to concede, so technically that logic should be applied to every single overtaking maneuver.


Indeed.

#3975 bauss

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 13:26

I also rewatched his pass of Vettel. How anyone can say that Lewis is not cerebral is beyond me. That pass was really well thought out. Vettel had no clue. what had happened.

I dont think many of the other drivers would have passed him there especially not for the lead.


He made it look easy...it wasn't. Same with the Massa pass.... very good planning and driving executing the move over a couple of corners. For me, he is easily one of the most "cerebral" in wheel to wheel stuff....as long as he can stay on top of tire management n strategy, it should reap dividends as the season progresses

Edited by bauss, 30 April 2011 - 13:55.


#3976 velgajski1

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 13:29

whatever...you guys are too sensitive to have a normal discussion about this...


I don't understand - you say how riding the kerb can cause gearbox failure. Then someone mentions how it was a completely new gearbox on a track where kerbs are not an issue anyway and then you say people are too sensitive :) Nice way of getting out of discussion when you have no arguments left. :wave:


Edited by velgajski1, 30 April 2011 - 13:31.


#3977 speng

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 13:42

Just to pour salt on opened wounds. I watched the last 25 laps or so of the chinese gp yesterday again and re Lewis TDG overtake of Jenson. It does seem that he was not alongside at all really. Infact he does seem quite far back. Jenson looks to turn in, sees Lewis there and backs off. I think I change my mind and agree with Brundle and say that Lewis TDG should probably thank Jenson for that one. I will say though that it was obvious he was going to get past at some point so there was no real need for Jenson to hold him up.

I also rewatched his pass of Vettel. How anyone can say that Lewis is not cerebral is beyond me. That pass was really well thought out. Vettel had no clue. what had happened.

I dont think many of the other drivers would have passed him there especially not for the lead.

There are many over passing moves where if the driver being passed turnes in the would be an accident, see Alonso passing Button on lap 17 of Malaysian GP. It is no big deal really.


#3978 Rocket73

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 10:25

I don't understand - you say how riding the kerb can cause gearbox failure. Then someone mentions how it was a completely new gearbox on a track where kerbs are not an issue anyway and then you say people are too sensitive :) Nice way of getting out of discussion when you have no arguments left. :wave:


See this is exactly what i am talking about. Why does this offend you? Riding the kerbs is just ONE example of hard driving and the quote i posted explained how it can effect the gearbox. It's just one example of the theory.

Do you really argue that someone who drives the car hard isn't going to have more failures than someone who drives steady?

But so many people on here are so sensitive about hamilton that they can't handle any sort of opinion against their guy and so they come back with these posts just intended to humiliate. Just take a look back through the thread and you can see the evidence.

It's also my opinion that Hamilton was rattled by Jenson's ability last year and he found himself behind in the standings when pretty much the whole f1 community had declared that Lewis would destroy Jenson. He also had managerial issues and the business of getting busted in Oz. I think he tried to overcompensate by driving harder hence the mistakes he made and stress he put on the car. In contrast i think Jenson was easier on his car and so made less mistakes and had less mechanical problems, zero in fact. If Vettel hadn't taken him out SPA could have been a very different result. Consequently the championship standings would have been level.

Maybe some of you will respect that's just my opinion and not get all offended and comeback with some smart arse replies to 'put me in my place'.
:rolleyes:


#3979 Rocket73

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 10:30

Just to pour salt on opened wounds. I watched the last 25 laps or so of the chinese gp yesterday again and re Lewis TDG overtake of Jenson. It does seem that he was not alongside at all really. Infact he does seem quite far back. Jenson looks to turn in, sees Lewis there and backs off. I think I change my mind and agree with Brundle and say that Lewis TDG should probably thank Jenson for that one. I will say though that it was obvious he was going to get past at some point so there was no real need for Jenson to hold him up.

I also rewatched his pass of Vettel. How anyone can say that Lewis is not cerebral is beyond me. That pass was really well thought out. Vettel had no clue. what had happened.

I dont think many of the other drivers would have passed him there especially not for the lead.


That's is exactly the point i tried to put and stick to and i received a whole bunch of abuse and insults for it.

You know i think Vettel knew Hamilton was there and just yielded to save his tyres. Hamilton drove brilliantly in China but i don't think his move on Vettel was anything to write home about.

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#3980 pinkypants

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 10:35

See this is exactly what i am talking about. Why does this offend you? Riding the kerbs is just ONE example of hard driving and the quote i posted explained how it can effect the gearbox. It's just one example of the theory.

Do you really argue that someone who drives the car hard isn't going to have more failures than someone who drives steady?

But so many people on here are so sensitive about hamilton that they can't handle any sort of opinion against their guy and so they come back with these posts just intended to humiliate. Just take a look back through the thread and you can see the evidence.

It's also my opinion that Hamilton was rattled by Jenson's ability last year and he found himself behind in the standings when pretty much the whole f1 community had declared that Lewis would destroy Jenson. He also had managerial issues and the business of getting busted in Oz. I think he tried to overcompensate by driving harder hence the mistakes he made and stress he put on the car. In contrast i think Jenson was easier on his car and so made less mistakes and had less mechanical problems, zero in fact. If Vettel hadn't taken him out SPA could have been a very different result. Consequently the championship standings would have been level.

Maybe some of you will respect that's just my opinion and not get all offended and comeback with some smart arse replies to 'put me in my place'.
:rolleyes:



People aren't offended by your opinion, they are bemused by it.

And again, instead of writing a nice few paragraphs discussing the topic matter, you have chosen to spend your time discussing other users. Of the very little information you have provided in your post related to the subject matter, you once again refer your opinions without any facts to back them up. Whilst this behaviour is not unusual for an internet forum, it is quite worrying that you choose to repeatedly post on this particular thread with the same view point over and over with very little factual basis for your arguments. It's getting to the point that people are now refraining from posting in this thread because having a discussion with you is utterly pointless, is a complete and utter waste of time and nothing new or of value is brought to the table.

Edited by pinkypants, 01 May 2011 - 10:36.


#3981 Rocket73

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 10:35

For overtaking to be successful someone will always have to concede, so technically that logic should be applied to every single overtaking maneuver.


Yeah but the point is that Jenson did'nt HAVE to concede. But he did have to react to prevent two McLarens out of the race. That's ALL this is about.

#3982 pinkypants

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 10:36

Yeah but the point is that Jenson did'nt HAVE to concede. But he did have to react to prevent two McLarens out of the race. That's ALL this is about.


And your point is?

#3983 ImDDAA

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 10:38

People aren't offended by your opinion, they are bemused by it.

And again, instead of writing a nice few paragraphs discussing the topic matter, you have chosen to spend your time discussing other users. Of the very little information you have provided in your post related to the subject matter, you once again refer your opinions without any facts to back them up. Whilst this behaviour is not unusual for an internet forum, it is quite worrying that you choose to repeatedly post on this particular thread with the same view point over and over with very little factual basis for your arguments. It's getting to the point that people are now refraining from posting in this thread because having a discussion with you is utterly pointless, is a complete and utter waste of time and nothing new or of value is brought to the table.


:up:

Thread is ruined for me currently. There is an ignore function in your control panel people.

#3984 Rocket73

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 10:38

@ Rocket

And Lewis CLEARLY finished behind both of his (at the time) reigning world champion teammates too. I'm sure Rocket has noticed that. It's funny for all his bleating about Jenson is easier on his equipment etc, How come Jenson had less retirements than Lewis, and still ended up behind him in points? How come Jenson never stuck it on pole in 2010, When Lewis managed it? How come Jenson NEVER looked like threatening to win a single dry GP all year?


How do you explain that, pretty much every time Lewis botched an overtake, crashed into the wall, drove into the wrong pitbox (oh wait...) shredded his tyres, lunched his brakes, took a sledgehammer to the innards of his gearbox, drove his car till the wheel literally fell off, spun 5 times in the rain etc etc JENSON BENEFITTED AND WAS STILL BEATEN IN EVERY CATEGORY WORTH MEASURING LAST YEAR?

Qualifying? Lewis

Poles? Lewis

Wins? Lewis

Podiums? Lewis

Finished ahead when both finished? Lewis

Fastest Laps? Lewis

Points? Lewis


ALL BY FLUKE???????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:eek: Good God Jenson must be the worst driver ever to sit in an F1 car since the dawn of time by your reckoning. And here I thought he was actually a fine F1 driver. Silly me



People aren't offended by my posts? You sure about that?

#3985 Rocket73

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 10:40

:up:

Thread is ruined for me currently. There is an ignore function in your control panel people.


Yeah and it's ruined for me too as all i have wanted to do is put forward my theories and all i have gotten is abuse and smart arse 'smackdowns' !

#3986 pinkypants

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 10:41

People aren't offended by my posts? You sure about that?


Err? Did you read what you just quoted? You have a very odd understanding of "offending" someone.

#3987 pinkypants

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 10:45

Yeah and it's ruined for me too as all i have wanted to do is put forward my theories and all i have gotten is abuse and smart arse 'smackdowns' !



No-one has given you "abuse" and no-one has given you "smartarse smackdowns", just because people don't agree with you and are asking you to bring some facts to the table doesn't mean they are having a go at you personally. It's getting really tired seeing you portray yourself as some kind of victim instead of discussing Lewis and Jenson in 2011 based on facts, reality etc which is what everyone else desperately wants to do in this thread. So can we please discuss Jenson v. Lewis in 2011 impersonally, factually, intelligently?

#3988 Rocket73

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 10:48

Anywho, he did make it, though and :wave: good bye.



Jenson sees Hamilton in plenty of time to avoid the crash too. Basically the guy they don't like has overtaken their driver and it has left a sour taste, that's all I can see it being at this point.



Nobody caused a crash. Get over it.


All this because i suggested that Jenson had to yield to prevent Hamilton causing an accident and taking both macca's out of the race. Just a little point really but a LOT of abuse in return..

#3989 pinkypants

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 10:50

All this because i suggested that Jenson had to yield to prevent Hamilton causing an accident and taking both macca's out of the race. Just a little point really but a LOT of abuse in return..


Where is this imaginary abuse you are receiving? They disagreed with you, and I am astonished if you think that constitutes abuse. But then again with the way this thread has progressed, nothing surprises me! If you honestly feel like you are getting abused, please flag the relevant posts to the moderator. But once again, can we please get back to Lewis v. Jenson in 2011?

Edited by pinkypants, 01 May 2011 - 10:51.


#3990 Rocket73

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 11:12

Where is this imaginary abuse you are receiving? They disagreed with you, and I am astonished if you think that constitutes abuse. But then again with the way this thread has progressed, nothing surprises me! If you honestly feel like you are getting abused, please flag the relevant posts to the moderator. But once again, can we please get back to Lewis v. Jenson in 2011?

well i would point to the post above...


But let's get back to 2011 - after the first two races i thought that the tyre situation would really suit jenson this year but after the last race i'm not so sure. It seems that you could use one set of hards for qualy and lewis would be better at scraping a decent time out of them. Then in the race with plenty of fresh tyres conservation won't be paramount.

Hopefully i am wrong...

#3991 robefc

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 12:47

That's is exactly the point i tried to put and stick to and i received a whole bunch of abuse and insults for it.

You know i think Vettel knew Hamilton was there and just yielded to save his tyres. Hamilton drove brilliantly in China but i don't think his move on Vettel was anything to write home about.


You're entitled to your opinion, it's just when people a little closer to the action, sebastien vettel for instance, declare themselves surprised at the move and congratulate hamilton on it then pehaps people are going to disagree with you.

They then might consider it surprising that vettel defended so hard for 2 laps and then suddenly decided to yield just at the point that lewis decided to use his KERs that he'd deliberately saved for that move

They then might start to wonder if there's some sort of agenda at work when someone such as yourself states such opinions which seem contrary to the evidence available and you don't bother to suppport them with anything at all...

Although you've already whined enough that anyone debating with your posts or asking you to back up your opinions is simply abusing you unfairly.


#3992 gricey1981

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 13:45

That's is exactly the point i tried to put and stick to and i received a whole bunch of abuse and insults for it.

You know i think Vettel knew Hamilton was there and just yielded to save his tyres. Hamilton drove brilliantly in China but i don't think his move on Vettel was anything to write home about.


Nah you can tell he is surprised. He had no chance to yield. Lewis went by off the racing line before he could do anything.

#3993 Bonaventura

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 14:25

See this is exactly what i am talking about. Why does this offend you? Riding the kerbs is just ONE example of hard driving and the quote i posted explained how it can effect the gearbox. It's just one example of the theory.

Do you really argue that someone who drives the car hard isn't going to have more failures than someone who drives steady?

But so many people on here are so sensitive about hamilton that they can't handle any sort of opinion against their guy and so they come back with these posts just intended to humiliate. Just take a look back through the thread and you can see the evidence.

It's also my opinion that Hamilton was rattled by Jenson's ability last year and he found himself behind in the standings when pretty much the whole f1 community had declared that Lewis would destroy Jenson. He also had managerial issues and the business of getting busted in Oz. I think he tried to overcompensate by driving harder hence the mistakes he made and stress he put on the car. In contrast i think Jenson was easier on his car and so made less mistakes and had less mechanical problems, zero in fact. If Vettel hadn't taken him out SPA could have been a very different result. Consequently the championship standings would have been level.

Maybe some of you will respect that's just my opinion and not get all offended and comeback with some smart arse replies to 'put me in my place'.
:rolleyes:

You must have watched different races
Until Monza last year Lewis drove absolutely flawless
and this is the general opinion about it, not only the opinion of his fans.

And if Button had not damaged his frontwing at SPa, Vettel would not have tried to overtake him
even if vettel did not hit button, JB was going backwards at this race because of his damaged frontwing.

#3994 mlsnoopy

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 14:56

If Vettel hadn't taken him out SPA could have been a very different result. Consequently the championship standings would have been level.


So why does Button get his IF where as Hamilton doesn't get his IFS?

#3995 bauss

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 15:06

I really wish you guys will stop replying and just disregard... granted the quality of the discourse in this thread wasn't exactly professorial b4, but its been hijacked to be just a bit too silly... its like someone covering his ears and constantly arguing 2 + 2 = 5 on a math forum. Should be ignored...

Edited by bauss, 01 May 2011 - 15:08.


#3996 nbhb

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 16:21

It's becoming a pattern this year that Button struggles more with tyres than Hamilton when it is cold and vice versa when it is hot? What do you guys think?

#3997 ImDDAA

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 16:25

I really wish you guys will stop replying and just disregard... granted the quality of the discourse in this thread wasn't exactly professorial b4, but its been hijacked to be just a bit too silly... its like someone covering his ears and constantly arguing 2 + 2 = 5 on a math forum. Should be ignored...


Glad someone else wrote this.

Only a week to go and we'll actually have something to talk about!

#3998 speng

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 16:49

It's becoming a pattern this year that Button struggles more with tyres than Hamilton when it is cold and vice versa when it is hot? What do you guys think?

Austrailia
Air Temp 17c
Track Temp 23c

Malaysia
Air Temp 28c
Track Temp 31c

China
Air Temp 22c
Track Temp 29c


The only race I would call cold race is Austrailia.

Edited by speng, 01 May 2011 - 16:51.


#3999 robefc

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 16:49

It's becoming a pattern this year that Button struggles more with tyres than Hamilton when it is cold and vice versa when it is hot? What do you guys think?


I'm not sure you can have a pattern after 3 races, particularly as the picture from malaysia is obscured by lewis using hards rather than softs.



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#4000 Con1

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 17:28

See this is exactly what i am talking about. Why does this offend you? Riding the kerbs is just ONE example of hard driving and the quote i posted explained how it can effect the gearbox. It's just one example of the theory.

Do you really argue that someone who drives the car hard isn't going to have more failures than someone who drives steady?

But so many people on here are so sensitive about hamilton that they can't handle any sort of opinion against their guy and so they come back with these posts just intended to humiliate. Just take a look back through the thread and you can see the evidence.

It's also my opinion that Hamilton was rattled by Jenson's ability last year and he found himself behind in the standings when pretty much the whole f1 community had declared that Lewis would destroy Jenson. He also had managerial issues and the business of getting busted in Oz. I think he tried to overcompensate by driving harder hence the mistakes he made and stress he put on the car. In contrast i think Jenson was easier on his car and so made less mistakes and had less mechanical problems, zero in fact. If Vettel hadn't taken him out SPA could have been a very different result. Consequently the championship standings would have been level.

Maybe some of you will respect that's just my opinion and not get all offended and comeback with some smart arse replies to 'put me in my place'.
:rolleyes:

Certainly not my intention mate. You will have seen from my posts that I don't agree with you, but I respect your right to have a different view. I'm happy to try and shoot down whatever arguments you want to advance, but I don't intend to be disrespectful. I'd like to see some healthy, fun debate without everyone (on either side) getting so fecking personal.

I'd like to save that level of abuse for RBR/Vettel fan boys  ;)