175 replies to this topic

[Doug Nye]

It's quite a time since I last got around to offering one of these 'What On Earth Is That?' collections. I intended to do one for Christmas Day but circumstances conspired against me. Anyway - begging your forbearance if this stuff bores you all to tears - here's a few from our GPL (Motorgraphs.com) archives for discussion/identification/interest...


1


2


3


4


5


6


7


8


9


10


11


12


12A


14


15


16

All photos strictly Copyright (or via): The GP Library

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 25 January 2011 - 16:36.

[Macca]

Well, #4 is the start of the '66 Belgian GP with Bondurant in the Yamura, sorry BRM.

#7 Masten Gregory and the BRP Indy car.

#8 Baghetti and the ATS, the Glen '63? edit: or being assembled out on the track at Spa before joining in practise?

#11 is Fiorano when it was brand new.


Paul M

Edited by Macca, 25 January 2011 - 16:46.

[macmachugh]

Photo no. 5. This must be taken during shooting 'race' footage for John Frankeheimer's film 'Grand Prix' at the 1966 Belgian Grand Prix. Car 24 is James Garner in his 'Yamura'. Of course Garner did not compete, this still is from footage mixed in with the actual race footage. I think the white car further back could be Bruce McClaren who did not start in the actual race.

Bernard White's BRM 2165 which ended upside down in a ditch shortly after the start of the actual race (also numbered 24 and driven by Bob Bondurant) was painted white rather than Bernard's usual dark green (to match his road cars and those of his brother Gordon and James Hanson - later Lords White & Hanson). The repaint followed John Frankenheimer offering a fistful of dollars to Bernard as Bruce McLaren's car would not run in the race. Frankenheimer needed a white car as footage had already been shot of McLaren's car for 'the race' in his movie and he needed continuity in actual race footage. Bernard was an unhappy man at the end of that day as the BRM was rather bent and buckled - Frankenheimer helped by offering Bernard his helicopter to the airport.
The position of the cars tells all. I remember it so well - John Frankenheimer bit through the stem of his pipe whilst persuading Bernard to repaint the car.

It's quite a time since I last got around to offering one of these 'What On Earth Is That?' collections. I intended to do one for Christmas Day but circumstances conspired against me. Anyway - begging your forbearance if this stuff bores you all to tears - here's a few from our GPL (Motorgraphs.com) archives for discussion/identification/interest...


1


2


3


4


5


6


7


8


9


10


11


12


12A


14


15


16

All photos strictly Copyright (or via): The GP Library

DCN

[Allen Brown]

For once I thought I'd be able to get in first on one of these but I couldn't even say "No 5 Bruce in the McLaren-Serenissima at Spa" quick enough.

[Amphicar]

I reckon #16 is the Rothmans 50000 international libre race at Brands Hatch on 28 Aug 1972.

[Allen Brown]

OK, let's start at the bottom as I may have more chance!

No 16 - New Zealand Grand Prix 10 Jan 1970 with Frank Matcih (McLaren M10A on pole), Mike Goth (Surtees TS5) next to him and then Niel Allen (M10B), Derek Bell (Brabham BT26) etc.

[Allen Brown]

Is No 10 the Yellow Submarine?

[Allen Brown]

No 15 - Jim Clark at East London??

[monoposto]

No. 16

I remember it well . . .

Rolling start to the 1970 New Zealand Grand Prix at Pukekohe with pole-sitter Frank Matich in his McLaren M10A leading away from Mike Goth's Surtees TS5

From the second row comes Derek Bell ( Brabham BT26 - Cosworth 2.5 ) and Niel Allen ( M10B ) with Graeme Lawrence's Ferrari 2.4 V6 behind. Ulf Norinder ( Lola T190 ) is behind Bell. Bell despatched Goth by the first right hander ( Champion Curve )

Matich was never headed taking fastest lap as well, to win by 21.9 secs from Bell. A lap down came Lawrence, Ron Grable ( M10A ) and Kevin Bartlett ( Mildren-Waggott 2.0 ).
2 laps down in sixth place was Norinder followed by Goth and Allen.

[ERault]

No. 6
Could be Colin Davis in the OSCA S-F392 at the 1961 4 Ore di Pescara.

[Barry Boor]

#7 looks a little like Jersey to me.

[monoposto]

16 again . . .

. . . at the very back of the grid is Graham McRae's M10A who was allowed to start despite failing to qualify under the "Indy-style" system ( with the running order decided by ballot ) when he missed his second-out 'slot' still trying to remedy a severe engine vibration. He retired after 18 laps after a spirited drive that hauled him up to sixth with ignition problems.

[Allen Brown]

No 14. I'm going to say Joyce Howard in the Cromard Special but I'm not going to say it with a whole lot of confidence...

So Ian Stewart's Ecurie Ecosse Jaguar C-type would be the car in the background.

If I'm right it will be a good advert for ORC's growing 1946-1953 F1/libre section. If I'm wrong, it will be a lesson to me not to venture an opinion on anything earlier than 1964. That right David?

[Doug Nye]

Instant reaction! But where, Allen? There is a McLaren in the start shot at Spa, but no Serenissima engine... None of the shots are from Jersey - nor Brands Hatch - nor Watkins Glen - and only one is from Spa.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 25 January 2011 - 18:27.

[Allen Brown]

Hang on Doug, one thing at a time. I'm just looking at pictures of buildings at The Curragh.

[maoricar]

12A..Jack Sears

[maoricar]

12A..Jack Sears, then again, might have been Ken Wharton

Edited by maoricar, 25 January 2011 - 19:30.

[Allen Brown]

Instant reaction! But where, Allen? There is a McLaren in the start shot at Spa, but no Serenissima engine... None of the shots are from Jersey - nor Brands Hatch - nor Watkins Glen - and only one is from Spa.

DCN

Damn it! I tried to pounce and not only did macmachugh beat me to it but he also explained it properly while I fell neatly into Doug's trap. I thought I saw the livery of a 1966 McLaren (well, I was right, kind of...)

Is No 11 Ian Stewart's Ecurie Ecosse Jaguar C-type at The Curragh in 1953?

[Cirrus]

Is number 10 a Mildren - but that's not a Waggott engine in the back is it??

I can't wait to find out about umber 8, it's a great photo. It looks like an Indy Car from 1965-ish, with mildly offset suspension, but that's as much as I can offer.

[monoposto]

Is number 10 a Mildren - but that's not a Waggott engine in the back is it??

I can't wait to find out about umber 8, it's a great photo. It looks like an Indy Car from 1965-ish, with mildly offset suspension, but that's as much as I can offer.

No. 10

1969 Tasman

Alec Mildren Racing's Len Bailey designed Mildren-Alfa Romeo 2.5 V8 of Frank Gardner

Edited by monoposto, 25 January 2011 - 19:55.

[Jean L]

N°2
Pescara,august 1954 Maserati 250F driver ?
N°3
Christchurch,Lady Wigram Trophy,january 1958 ,Lister-Jaguar of Archie Scott Brown

[ray b]

#4 indy novi but way before 65 as the tyres are tooo skinny mid 50's ?
maybe J M F indy test ride car ?

Edited by ray b, 25 January 2011 - 20:30.

[Jean L]

N°15
East London,december 1961,Jim Clark and Dave Wright.

[monoposto]

No. 8

Looks like the British Racing Partnership 1965 Indy car

Edited by monoposto, 25 January 2011 - 20:37.

[Doug Nye]

No 15 - near enough - try January 2, 1962?

DCN

[Doug Nye]

#4 indy novi but way before 65 as the tyres are tooo skinny mid 50's ?
maybe J M F indy test ride car ?

Good effort - V8 but not Novi...

DCN

[LittleChris]

7 - Isle of Man ( Douglas )?

9 - Something says Rouen to me.

Edited by LittleChris, 25 January 2011 - 20:40.

[Jean L]

N°9 Baghetti and the ATS in 1963,at Spa ?

Edited by Jean L, 25 January 2011 - 20:41.

[Vitesse2]

7 1950 Empire Trophy, Isle of Man. Bira's Maserati 4CLT/48 has an encounter with ERA R12B, driven by David Murray. Both retired.

[Jean L]

N°11
A red cross.

[scags]

#12- Paramount Ranch? It looks like a film soundstage in the back, and phoney Western buildings scattered around.

[Macca]

Got in quick.........too quick, didn't read the picture numbers right!

no. 5, NOT 4, shows Bondurant, Graham Hill, Dan Gurney in the Eagle-Climax in the dust behind Guy Ligier and Jo Siffert in their Cooper-Masers, then Phil Hill in MGM's McLaren 'whoosh-bonk' getting that unforgetable footage, and right at the back Jim Clark in the Lotus-Climax 'R14' who had stalled.

Is no. 10 a Mildren-Alfa?


Paul M

[d j fox]

1:
2: Could be Horace Gould Maserati 250F Pescara GP 18 August 1957 ?...or maybe Pescara in 1954??
3: Archie Scott Brown- Lister Jaguar New Zealand - either Ardmore or Christchurch aerodrome circuit “early 1958”
4:
5: 24-Bondurant BRM (Yamura!), 14-G Hill BRM, 21 Siffert Cooper Maser., Guy Ligier Cooper Maser, Dan Gurney Eagle Climax; Phil Hill in Camera Car and Jim Clark Lotus staggering away from the line before blowing up. Belgian GP 12th June 1966
6: Colin Davis OSCA S1600 Pescara 4 Hours World Championship race 15th August 1961
7:
8: The Kansas city Flash-Masten Gregory BRP Indy car
9:ATS testing 1963 style!
10
11
12
12a: Ken Wharton- finishing 4th overall at 76.18 mph in his Raymond Mays tuned Ford Zephyr , Saloon car race, Daily Express International Trophy Race meeting 7th May 1955
14
15: Jim Clark Lotus 21 winning the South African Grand Prix, East London on Boxing Day 1961
16:

David

Edited by d j fox, 25 January 2011 - 21:52.

[Michael Ferner]

4) CTA-Arsenal...

[Michael Ferner]

8) Quad-cam engine, no Halibrand rear end = must be British (Racing Partnership)
Driver with glasses & big b***s = must be Gregory

[Michael Ferner]

No 14. I'm going to say Joyce Howard in the Cromard Special but I'm not going to say it with a whole lot of confidence...

Why not? Car looks right, driver looks feminine...

[Michael Ferner]

N°11
A red cross.

Best answer so far!

[Bjorn Kjer]

Yes Macca, Frank Gardner driving.

[RTH]

What a fabulous set of pictures.

[Roger Clark]

No 9: the bodywork looks like the ATS when it was first presented to the press in early '63, not the much more tatty version that appeared in races.

[LittleChris]

No 9: the bodywork looks like the ATS when it was first presented to the press in early '63, not the much more tatty version that appeared in races.

For the life of me I can't think which road track ( assuming that's where it's pictured - see apparent road markings ) would've had double layer armco at that time.

[Doug Nye]

No takers for No 1 yet then...

DCN

[Robin Fairservice]

No takers for No 1 yet then...

DCN

This is all complete guessing. Is it Alberto Ascari? The car has left hand drive, so not an Italian sports car and seems to have a Swiss licence plate. Is it a BMW 328, but the wheel discs don't look like the pictures in the January 2011 "Automobile"? Would the location be Berne?

Edited by Robin Fairservice, 26 January 2011 - 21:13.

[raceannouncer2003]

My guess for #2 would be Marimon's Maserati on "pole" at Pescara, 1954.

Vince H.

[Jim Thurman]

My attempt at humour...captioning #9

"By this point, neither Baghetti nor the mechanic could tell whether the ATS had been wrecked or was still being assembled."

[Jean L]

N°1
Bremgarten atmosphere.
Swiss licence plate (Ticino).

[Bjorn Kjer]

No.2

18 Marimom , at Syracuse, Pau, Bari

18 Mantovani at Rome and IGP

Mo.9 Could be BGP as the Transporter was late and gates were closed . They had to roll or carry cars and equipment .......! (I read !)

[Roger Clark]

My guess for #2 would be Marimon's Maserati on "pole" at Pescara, 1954.

Vince H.

Wasn't he dead at the time?

I think it's Moss's car at that race. English (or Polish) mechanics' woolly hats are a clue, but I think the number's right.

[Roger Clark]

Has the BRP in number 8 got any drive shafts?

[Roger Clark]

I agree that number 6 is Davis's OSCA at Pescara. It seems to have been a favourite vantage point for photographers. Pictures in 1954 show the building opposite (where the right-hand roll-over door is in Doug's photo) more open with what look like building materials. Pictures in 1956 look the same. no point in working too fast, but good to know they had finished by 1961.