22 replies to this topic

[MATALBURY]

Photo of race driver 2
Photo of a race driver

Taken by grandfather at the Wirlinga Circuit near Albury in 1938

[David Shaw]

I'm probably well off the mark here, but my first thoughts are Jack Phillips and Ted Parsons.

[john medley]

Very good and clear photos, Matalbury!

I hope we may be able to see more of the same quality.

Both show Jack Phillips from Wangaratta in his Ford V8 special, Wirlinga winners in 1938. The other gent in the very bad hat is probably Ted Parsons

[Ray Bell]

Studio photos, by the look of it... ie. taken by a professional from a studio...

It looks like a neat little car there, but those helmets! Where is my picture of Ted's that I took about ten years ago?

[David Shaw]

Yes, very ordinary helmets. Reminds me of these blokes


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[john medley]

Explore a little further on that site, and more pics from Albury emerge including more of Wirlinga 1938 -- a Morgan pic that will please Tony Parkinson, the Les Murphy/ Jack O'Dea/ Vern Leach MG P, Barrett's Morris Cowley, and several Australian Specials I havent sighted before

Again, the collection is from a professional photographer, and shows Albury As It Was 1930s-1950s

Can anyone tell me which strawbaled right hand corner the Morgan and the rest are attacking? My guess off the top of the head is turning off the Riverina Highway and into the now non-existent Orphanage Road, not long after the start

[john medley]

One pic I didnt see in my search , but I suspect taken by the same photographer at the same spot was that of Andrews' Standard Special, a car asked about on this forum by Dick Willis some time ago. Still able to post it, Dick?

[Ray Bell]

Isn't that this one?

First one I found...

And this one has some real atmosphere.

The angle of the shadows should be an indication of which road this one depicts. It also indicates that the photographer was there more than one year.

And yes, John, Barrett's Cowley would be (almost) on the Riverina Highway stretch and heading towards Orphanage Lane.

Are these the ones you can't identify?

Edited by Ray Bell, 28 January 2011 - 21:41.

[Dick Willis]

That's the one Ray, John, I had some grand plans of converting the Standard 12 I had into a racer like that ( Frank would be pleased ! ) maybe it would have had a claim to some racing history. Eventually I decided it was all too hard and sold the Standard to someone who was going to restore it to original. He alerted me to a website where there were heaps of Flying Standards restored to loving care by their owners.

[Ray Bell]

I wonder when someone will turn up with decent pics of cars coming over the leap in Orphanage Lane?

I had some very lousy ones of Bob Lea-Wright in the air over there, people sitting on the edge of the road at the subsequent culvert, but they're the only ones I've ever seen.

[MATALBURY]

Thanks everyone
Will update the photos.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by MATALBURY
Thanks everyone
Will update the photos.

Why not post them on here?

You know we appreciate them greatly...

[john medley]

That's the car, Ray, but not the photo Dick used.

I think the picture of "Australian Specials' shows Williamson's Chrysler ahead of Winton's AC and A. N. Other I cant identify

One of the pics shows in the background the house on the corner of Bowna Road( Old Sydney Road) and Riverina Highway -- which leads me to think that the cars are shown entering what I mistakenly called Orphanage Road(admittedly one of its names) AKA St John's Road. It is this bit of St John's Orphanage Road that no longer exists, although the old bits of tar are still there.

[David Shaw]

The angle of the shadows should be an indication of which road this one depicts. It also indicates that the photographer was there more than one year.

That appears to be Jack Phillips, but is not the same car as depicted in the original post on this thread. If that is definitely Phillips in the original post, I suggest that it may be 1939 when they wore #5, and obviously after modifications.

[David Shaw]

That's the car, Ray, but not the photo Dick used.

I think the picture of "Australian Specials' shows Williamson's Chrysler ahead of Winton's AC and A. N. Other I cant identify

One of the pics shows in the background the house on the corner of Bowna Road( Old Sydney Road) and Riverina Highway -- which leads me to think that the cars are shown entering what I mistakenly called Orphanage Road(admittedly one of its names) AKA St John's Road. It is this bit of St John's Orphanage Road that no longer exists, although the old bits of tar are still there.

A. N. Other is probably L. Evans in the Vauxhall.


PS. Absolutely fantastic photos. I have commented on some on FlickR with identification.

Edited by David Shaw, 29 January 2011 - 06:52.

[john medley]

Nice one, David.

I agree with you

Despite its "1938" label the first pic is Phillips' V8 in 1939 when it won again. While the absence of a number is puzzling, the body mods and paint are what it showed in 1939. Various other 1939 pics support this view.

I have no record of numbers on the cars at Albury in 1939, but we do know at least some of them, from photographs. The most recent from memory was a few months ago when Brian Lear(I think) was trying to establish Beith/ Lea Wright Terraplane identities, and we were guessing that the pics then were Phillip Island triangular circuit: in fact, probably no -- rather, Albury. I found a pic of Beasley( # 15 Singer) and Boughton ( # 14 Morgan) about to start, with the O' Dea MG P # 12 still waiting, THAT house in the background. OR, I might still be confused!!( one bother that occurs is that Vern Leach had died in the O'Dea car at Lobethal Jan 1939, so could this pic be Phillip Island BEFORE that, or is my architectural acuity re the "Albury house" faulty?)

The " shadows" photo shows Phillips in 1938 at the finish. Again, body mods and paint support your contention. The race started at 2.34 pm March 19th(close to the equinox) and finished over 2 1/2 hours later, that bit of the Riverina Highway facing about west, so the shadows are right.

[David Shaw]

The only numbers I have recorded on my spreadsheet for the 1939 race is 5 for Jack Phillips and 10 for Bob Lea-Wright. In the photo in the first post, the vertical stripe on the grille and the curve of the number beneath Phillips' elbow indicate 5.

[john medley]

( David, this is a bit like a game of tennis between you and me, only more fun)
When I first looked at these photos, my guess was that they were taken several hundred yards after the start, with co markers battling for the first corner. I suspect my first guess was wrong. Many I suspect were taken after one lap -- or maybe some starters were remarkably slow away. According to my records there were NO co markers: every car started individually, sometimes with only a 15 second advantage or deficit re nearby cars.

An excellent example involves Evans with 9m 30s start (over the Sinclair Alta , which failed after practice so DNS), Williamson 9m15s, and Winton 9m00s. The inexperienced Evans appears to have been run down by the other two, and was shortly to retire, the others going on to finish 6th and 4th respectively.... hence my first-corner-after-one-lap guess

So, I agree again: Evans' Vauxhall. Question: what model? I suspect the answer will delight those South Australians like Lachlan Kinnear who over the last few years was trying to prove to CAMS that " American" (sort of) Vauxhalls actually raced prewar not merely hillclimbed.

[David Shaw]

I assume that L. Evans is the L. W. Evans that frequently drove a Terraplane in trials etc. around the same time.

[Ray Bell]

John, I was at a loss to understand why you think they're entering Orphanage Lane...

Now I'm a bit unsure about it all. If that house behind the Standard is in Bowna Road, then they certainly are turning from Bowna Road into the Riverina Highway. And that would well explain why the corner has been formed with that easy curve.

But then I don't see in that particular picture where the Riverina Highway continues along.

The start was in the Riverina Highway the first year, as I recall. And I thought it would be obvious from my earlier post that I was saying that the Phillips car was different. "The photographer must have been there more than one year," to me, simply means that.

For the record, David, there are no raised humps on the scuttle, while the side vents are pretty much standard Ford, as is the grille. For '39 the grille is painted because it's a truck grille with additional depth to house the thicker truck radiator. Ted told me they'd done this to the car at one point.

So what other pics are about that might have another angle to verify more about the locations of these pics?

Where is my MRA article... even if somebody was jealous that I got to write it?

[john medley]

I think I may have to stand on the circuit carrying these photos and see what a combined view-- of pic plus current landscape -- tells me.

Before that happens, my current impression is that the house with the Standard Special( driven by McDonald not Andrews as I stated earlier) turning in front of it lies on the more-or-less east-west section of the Riverina Highway. The shadows from the haybales indicate sun angle( sun tending west, shadows tending east). The race started just after 2.30 pm Saturday 19th March.

The side-on photo of the O'Dea P Type MG shows another house in the distance. My impression at this stage is that is the house with its several chimneys near the starting line, That is, my impression is that the MG P is heading north up St John's Orphanage Road, roughly parallel to the Bowna rd section which runs down the slope behind that house. However, some bits pictured dont match current reality, including some land flatter than pictured, and that fence line to the left of the MG P.

Perhaps someone can find the " Terraplane" pics I referred to above which appeared on this forum several months ago. They may well show the house ....

My apologies, Ray, re your Phillips Ford in 2 different years observation.

In Sports Car World ( date unknown) a Geoffrey Bewley article on Singers was accompanied by several photos, one showing Beasley's #23 Singer at Albury 1938, and another as described in Post 16 above, the house chimneys visible in the background ( which may cast doubt on our previous " Terraplanes" hypothesizing)

[cooper997]

Ray,

MRA #53 October 2000 has your Wirlinga 'Closed Circuit' feature.

Stephen

[john medley]

Sorry, gentlemen. Confusion now resolved.
The"other" pics and the Terraplanes matter related to Phillip Island Labour Day March 1938, and I have resolved that to my satisfaction. Definitely not related to Albury.

Also, I visited Wirlinga earlier this morning( it is, after all, my local circuit, even closer to where I live than Hume Weir or Winton....), carrying photos and folders. The house opposite the former St John's Orphanage Road still stands, though thoroughly obscured by vegetation. It has seen better days, but its lines and windows and roof shape help identify it. It IS the house behind McDonald's Standard Special. The line of hills in the left background, these days also almost obscured by trees, helps confirm this.
The house near the corner of Bowna Road( now called Table Top Road) appears in no photos I have, and is not the house behind the Standard Special. The line of hills in the background of the MGP in St J's.... Road can be seen above the now denser vegetation. There is a downhill approach to this corner, as opposed to the flat approach to St J's corner. In the case of both corners the road alignment has changed, the St J's of course now nonexistent except for a little tar on the way north. The Riverina Highway is now raised above its 1938 level. A bus and spectators stand near/on the Riverina Highway beyond St J's Road 1938
The chimneyed house near the 1938/40 start/finish line still stands, again obscured by large trees and those "chimneys" are now attic windows. The flat landscape from this house to the MG P remains the same, as does the slope down Bowna/Table Top Rd to the Riverina Highway Corner There are now many more trees, obscuring much of what shows in the photos, but not the characteristic hills in the background
I was there about 2- 2 1/2 hours before Daylight Saving mid day, so despite the ?month's difference Jan 30 2011 to March 19 1938, the shadows were almost reversed-- again tending to confirm that McDonald & Co were attacking the turn into St J's Rd