52 replies to this topic

[Dkipling1]

[font="Comic Sans MS"] I'm trying to identify this radiator grille. It's not from a "sports" car, though it happens to be mounted on a race vehicle.

http://www.oldstox.c...May 1964 LE.JPG

Any suggestions? I've looked at old Singers and Rovers and Wolseleys, but nothing quite matches it, though some Rovers are close. In the photograph the grille is on a Topolino-bodied stock car, in 1964.[/font]

[JockinSA]

Not a Riley ? Just the shape of the plaque plinth on the cowl is that sort of shape that the Riley badge had.

[Gary Davies]

Not a Riley ? Just the shape of the plaque plinth on the cowl is that sort of shape that the Riley badge had.

Whatever it is it's not a Riley. Just try Goggle image searching Riley cars. The Riley radiator shroud was always a wholly different shape.

[f1steveuk]

My first re-action was Alvis

[Bloggsworth]

It has the look of a mid 1930s BSA grille to me...

http://www.dloc.org....0HP_1935.m.html

Check out the front suspension design of the BSA 3 wheelers on this page http://www.bsafwdc.co.uk/page11.php makes that of the Morgan look as as bad as it really is - How are Morgan still going?

Edited by Bloggsworth, 28 January 2011 - 09:46.

[Gary Davies]

If someone feels like doing a bit of trawling... http://www.britishmm.co.uk/index.asp

[Allan Lupton]

It has the look of a mid 1930s BSA grille to me...

and to me but it's the Daimler-made type you linked to rather than the three-wheeler

[Bloggsworth]

and to me but it's the Daimler-made type you linked to rather than the three-wheeler

I was aware of that, it was the suspension of the 3 wheeler which intigued me, being both clever, lightweight and economical compared with the agricultural nature of Morgan's sliding pillar.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by f1steveuk
My first re-action was Alvis

I would say that's quite reasonable...

[LotusElise]

It's not a Wolseley. The badge is the wrong shape.

[Pullman99]

Looks a bit "dumpy" to me so could be cut down. My thought was Standard.

[Dutchy]

I agree with Allan Lupton - BSA

[Allan Lupton]

I was aware of that, it was the suspension of the 3 wheeler which intigued me, being both clever, lightweight and economical compared with the agricultural nature of Morgan's sliding pillar.

The four-quarter-elliptic system seen on the beesa trike was originally to be found on the FWD Alvis. In my view it was clever without being good and because the springs would get into strange shapes if they had to cope with torque, it only works with inboard front brakes. If you ever see a head-on photo of an Alvis cornering hard not only do the wheels operate at strange angles, but you can see why the steering ball joints could tangle with the lower springs.

[Bloggsworth]

I agree with Allan Lupton - BSA

I think you will find it was I...

[Jaffa]

The total shape and badge plinth are very 30's Jowett looking especially the mounting base for a radiator mascot.

[Bloggsworth]

Just look at the shape where the badge would go at the top of the grille, still looks like a BSA to me...

[Dkipling1]

Thank you all --- I will go and trawl further around BSA's (and Jowetts) and the 1930's.
This forum never fails to impress me with the speed, knowledge, and politeness of its posters. My ambition in life would be to post an answer rather than merely ask a question!

[Bloggsworth]

Thank you all --- I will go and trawl further around BSA's (and Jowetts) and the 1930's.
This forum never fails to impress me with the speed, knowledge, and politeness of its posters. My ambition in life would be to post an answer rather than merely ask a question!

That's the dangerous bit, giving answers! Get a rivet out of place and the world, politely, falls upon you....

[Robin Fairservice]

That's the dangerous bit, giving answers! Get a rivet out of place and the world, politely, falls upon you....

Here is a 1935 Jowett Kestrel. Note that there is a hole at the bottom of the radiator for a starting handle.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Bloggsworth]

I've opened all 3 side by side, and I now think it is neither a BSA nor a Jowett - I'm retiring hurt...........

[David Beard]

Well, I thought it was a Rover...

However, I'm rather chuffed with all the suggestions that it might be a BSA. A BSA 3 wheeler was dad's first car. Here he is with it, c1948.

[Dkipling1]

I've opened all 3 side by side, and I now think it is neither a BSA nor a Jowett - I'm retiring hurt...........

Me too; I tried some BSA photos, and they are close but not quite.
Is there any chance it might be from a commercial vehicle, AND is it definitely a 1930's rather than 40's style?
I still hunger to know.

[Bloggsworth]

I reckon early to mid 60s London - Are they not Dunlop SP tyres, they remind me of the Dunlops introduced in about 1964? Couldn't make out the brand of cigarettes on the poster by the railway bridge. Don't recall a railway bridge near Wimbledon stadium, or the stadium at Walthamstow. Not being in possession of even a mildly sophisticated version of Photoshop I have been unable to try different coloured filters on the badge area to see if I can bring something up.

[Geoff E]

I reckon early to mid 60s London -

As the photo's title included LE, I thought perhaps it was taken at Long Eaton.

[ianselva]

As the photo's title included LE, I thought perhaps it was taken at Long Eaton.

Going back to the main site most of the photos seem to taken at Brafield.

[JtP1]

I reckon early to mid 60s London - Are they not Dunlop SP tyres, they remind me of the Dunlops introduced in about 1964? Couldn't make out the brand of cigarettes on the poster by the railway bridge. Don't recall a railway bridge near Wimbledon stadium, or the stadium at Walthamstow. Not being in possession of even a mildly sophisticated version of Photoshop I have been unable to try different coloured filters on the badge area to see if I can bring something up.

The tyres are SP3s and introduced in 63. The were replaced as original fitment on new cars by thye SP41 in early 64, but they were available to purchase from tyre dealers after that. Production probably stopped in the late 60s, but the tread pattern was later used by India tyres, a Dunlop subsiduary.

I go for the grille being a commercial, but can't remember what. Commer?

[Bloggsworth]

Looks like an A at the RH end of the badge area - Could be wishful thinking...

Edited by Bloggsworth, 28 January 2011 - 23:59.

[arttidesco]

Wish I could contribute more than a blow up triangle is wrong way round for Alvis and it was certainly made before I was born.

[Tony Matthews]

[arttidesco]

AEC is the closest I could find in my limited knowledge of commercials but again that tricky triangle is the wrong way up

Edited by arttidesco, 29 January 2011 - 13:56.

[Dkipling1]

I reckon early to mid 60s London - Are they not Dunlop SP tyres, they remind me of the Dunlops introduced in about 1964? Couldn't make out the brand of cigarettes on the poster by the railway bridge. Don't recall a railway bridge near Wimbledon stadium, or the stadium at Walthamstow. Not being in possession of even a mildly sophisticated version of Photoshop I have been unable to try different coloured filters on the badge area to see if I can bring something up.

[size="3"]Bloggsworth --- the photo was taken at the Long Eaton stadium in 1964. Yes, those are Dunlop SP tyres, which were used by a lot of stock car racers because they could handle both shale and tarmac tracks; some used Dunlop R5's on tarmac, although they were officially forbidden.[/size]

[Dkipling1]

Going back to the main site most of the photos seem to taken at Brafield.

Hi; if you are looking though the rest of the site, yes, many were taken at Brafield, recognizable by (a) the oak trees, and (b) Fred's Hot Dogs stall! But other tracks are Belle Vue, Harringay, West Ham, Walthamstow, Cadwell Park, Brand Hatch, Bristol (Mendip), Plymouth, Newton Abbot, oh dear the list goes on though too many tracks have been turned into supermarket parking lots.

[Dkipling1]

AEC is the closest I could find in my limited knowledge of commercials but again that tricky triangle is the wrong way up

The really distinctive feature is that ridge running back from the top of the triangle.
While we are at it: what about the radiator grille visible on the left of the photo?

[ianselva]

The really distinctive feature is that ridge running back from the top of the triangle.
While we are at it: what about the radiator grille visible on the left of the photo?

I think the rad looks like a european car maybe and the one to left the could be a Sunbeam-Talbot .

Edited by ianselva, 31 January 2011 - 09:34.

[Dkipling1]

I think the rad looks like a european car maybe and the one to the could be a Sunbeam-Talbot .

I have a higher-resolution version of the photo, here: any help?
http://www.oldstox.c...rille query.jpg

[arttidesco]

I have a higher-resolution version of the photo, here: any help?
http://www.oldstox.c...rille query.jpg

No but if I find another grill like it I know where to find you

[LotusElise]

My dad may well have been there when that picture was taken - Brafield was one of the tracks he raced at - and he might even know whose car it is and what they built it out of. It isn't his.
Unfortunately, he is not online, but I'll try to get him to look at the picture next time I am at home.

[Dkipling1]

My dad may well have been there when that picture was taken - Brafield was one of the tracks he raced at - and he might even know whose car it is and what they built it out of. It isn't his.
Unfortunately, he is not online, but I'll try to get him to look at the picture next time I am at home.

Thanks, but tell him that photo was taken at Long Eaton. If your father raced at Brafield, --- what was his name and number? I may have a photo of him, too.
My nostalgia photo archive of stock cars is www.oldstox.com

[Henk]

[Tony Matthews]

[onelung]

Plausible, but Henk, could we see a shot which has the bottom of the grille included?
Nothing I've been able to access under "Delahaye" has the squared-off shape of the stock car; unless, of course, it has been modified for the installation.
Seems a somewhat exotic marque for the purpose, I would have thought...

[Dkipling1]

Plausible, but Henk, could we see a shot which has the bottom of the grille included?
Nothing I've been able to access under "Delahaye" has the squared-off shape of the stock car; unless, of course, it has been modified for the installation.
Seems a somewhat exotic marque for the purpose, I would have thought...

[b]See link above: Still some variation in the angular "ridge" behind the badge --- maybe different Delahayes? The hood/bonnet, and certainly the rest of the stock car body (old Fiat Topolino, much loved by that era's racers) probably have nothing to do with the grille. Mercedes and Rolls rads were commonly salvaged to adorn stock cars. BUT, a huge thanks to you all for helping in this quest. DK. www.oldstox.com[/b]

[Dkipling1]

Plausible, but Henk, could we see a shot which has the bottom of the grille included?
Nothing I've been able to access under "Delahaye" has the squared-off shape of the stock car; unless, of course, it has been modified for the installation.
Seems a somewhat exotic marque for the purpose, I would have thought...

Then you might shudder to have seen Rod Dore's stock car with its Ferrari Superamerica gearbox, or the Armstrong Siddley bonnet/rad of Aubrey Leighton, or the three Railton straight-8's (of the total 1500 production) that were raced as stock cars in the fifties, along with some old Rolls and Bentleys. "It's only a car and an engine" is what those old racers used to say. Sorry for my over-large text on previous postings.

[fbarrett]

My first impression was late 1920s Auburn...

Frank

[arttidesco]

Clear pick of an 8-90 convertible here problem with Auburns that age is they all have a hole for the crank handle. The Delahaye looks a good match but I am still not 100% convinced, most Delahaye's I have seen appear to have grills that taper in significantly towards the bottom.

Edited by arttidesco, 01 February 2011 - 01:05.

[Tony Matthews]

Sorry for my over-large text on previous postings.

It was deafening!

[Bloggsworth]

Then you might shudder to have seen Rod Dore's stock car with its Ferrari Superamerica gearbox, or the Armstrong Siddley bonnet/rad of Aubrey Leighton, or the three Railton straight-8's (of the total 1500 production) that were raced as stock cars in the fifties, along with some old Rolls and Bentleys. "It's only a car and an engine" is what those old racers used to say. Sorry for my over-large text on previous postings.

When I left school in 1963 I was offered a Straight 8 Railton for £10 by a man who lived in Pin Mill "It'll start in top and go all the way up the hill" he told me - I didn't have £10, and certainly had no idea how valuable it would be many years down the line.

[Dkipling1]

The mystery rad on that 1964 stock car photo has a Delahaye pre-war badge, and the radiator shell/surround is a Delahaye commercial vehicle rad.
Below: stock car and two comparisons:

http://www.oldstox.c...May 1964 LE.JPG
http://www.oldstox.c...minus badge.jpg
http://www.oldstox.c... commercial.jpg

Sources:
http://www.prewarcar...ds/ad51382.html
http://img143.images...sc026064vy.jpg/

The missing jigsaw piece is that the fire truck has a hole for the crank, and the stoxck car item doesn't; darn.
One of the posters to my original enquiry suggested a commercial vehicle and they were right. Now I have to find the exact one.

[Dkipling1]

Clear pick of an 8-90 convertible here problem with Auburns that age is they all have a hole for the crank handle. The Delahaye looks a good match but I am still not 100% convinced, most Delahaye's I have seen appear to have grills that taper in significantly towards the bottom.

That Auburn badge appears flat across the top, whereas Delahaye badges form a triangular point at the top --- still searching.

[Dkipling1]

[font="Comic Sans MS"]

SOLVED. The builder / racer of this stock car has been located, and he confirms that both the rad grille and hood were from a 1937 Delahaye. I much appreciate the kind attention that posters have given to my original quey. Thanks!
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