73 replies to this topic

[Barry Boor]

...when the time came around to see the first new F.1 car to be announced for a new season. Today, in fact in an hour or so, Ferrari will be unveiling their car for 2011. Am I getting excited now? Well, er, hardly.

Don't get me wrong, I still love Grand Prix racing and wouldn't miss a race if I can help it but I suppose it's my age; I just know that the new Ferrari is going to look like, I suppose, last year's Red Bull. In fact most of this year's cars are going to look like last year's Red Bull - except this year's Red Bull of course.

I am wondering when I stopped getting thrilled at the prospect of new cars. It must be 10 to 15 years ago, but I still feel a certain disloyalty to my favourite sport now that these new machines don't raise my pulse like they used to. They should!

If you dare venture into Racing Comments you will see that there are numerous people, mostly young men I guess, who go into raptures over the wing mirror shape of the Force India etc etc etc. What it is to be young and enthusiastic!

Just had to put it down, I'll understand if no-one sees the need to comment.

[fuzzi]

Don't worry Barry. As long as you still get excited when you see (hear and smell) your favourite racing cars on the move then everything is all right.

About April every year I get this urge to hear the sound of supercharged engines and smell burnt alcohol fuel and Castrol R. The on the morning of the meeting I wake up at 4:00am and can't get back to sleep.

[Paolo]

...when the time came around to see the first new F.1 car to be announced for a new season. Today, in fact in an hour or so, Ferrari will be unveiling their car for 2011. Am I getting excited now? Well, er, hardly.

Don't get me wrong, I still love Grand Prix racing and wouldn't miss a race if I can help it but I suppose it's my age; I just know that the new Ferrari is going to look like, I suppose, last year's Red Bull. In fact most of this year's cars are going to look like last year's Red Bull - except this year's Red Bull of course.

I am wondering when I stopped getting thrilled at the prospect of new cars. It must be 10 to 15 years ago, but I still feel a certain disloyalty to my favourite sport now that these new machines don't raise my pulse like they used to. They should!

If you dare venture into Racing Comments you will see that there are numerous people, mostly young men I guess, who go into raptures over the wing mirror shape of the Force India etc etc etc. What it is to be young and enthusiastic!

Just had to put it down, I'll understand if no-one sees the need to comment.

Last time I said "Wow" was the William Walrus, 2004.
Before that, the low line Brabham, 1986.
In 1983 I couldn't wait to see the next marvel.

I hate this spec formula.

[David Beard]

These days we are expected to get excited about the colour schemes...

I still live in hope that something genuinely new will appear. But of course, if it does, it will be banned for next year after all those who didn't think of it have had their whinge.

Edited by David Beard, 28 January 2011 - 09:49.

[Sharman]

I still get excited Barry. But that's about it!

[Roger Clark]

These days we are expected to get excited about the colour schemes...

I still live in hope that something genuinely new will appear. But of course, if it does, it will be banned for next year after all those who didn't think of it have had their whinge.

What about the F-duct? i know it's been banned and that was a pity, but it was something genuinely new, as was the double diffuser.

Barry, why do you think you're not excited about this year's Red Bull and the prospect of what Newey might come up with to stay ahead of the others?

[Phil Rainford]

Also Barry teams didn't always bring a new car out each year i.e. Lotus 72 and McLaren M23 etc

So suggest the launch of a new car was probably more exciting?

PAR

[David Beard]

What about the F-duct? i know it's been banned and that was a pity, but it was something genuinely new, as was the double diffuser.

Barry, why do you think you're not excited about this year's Red Bull and the prospect of what Newey might come up with to stay ahead of the others?

F Duct was exactly what I meant. Thought of, moaned about by those who hadn't, banned.

[johnthebridge]

It may be an age thing about the new cars, but I'm the same.
I think it was Frank Williams who, when asked when he would give up racing, replied that he might consider doing so when the hairs on the back of his neck stopped going up at the start of a race. I draw my "retirement" pension (please note, NOT my old age pension) in two months time, but my neck hairs are already starting to stir, just at the the thought of the Spring start at Silverstone, let alone the first GP. Well, maybe not Bahrain, but certainly Melbourne.
Mind you, it's about the only thing that is stirring now, dammit.

[john winfield]

...when the time came around to see the first new F.1 car to be announced for a new season. Today, in fact in an hour or so, Ferrari will be unveiling their car for 2011. Am I getting excited now? Well, er, hardly.

Don't get me wrong, I still love Grand Prix racing and wouldn't miss a race if I can help it but I suppose it's my age; I just know that the new Ferrari is going to look like, I suppose, last year's Red Bull. In fact most of this year's cars are going to look like last year's Red Bull - except this year's Red Bull of course.

I am wondering when I stopped getting thrilled at the prospect of new cars. It must be 10 to 15 years ago, but I still feel a certain disloyalty to my favourite sport now that these new machines don't raise my pulse like they used to. They should!

If you dare venture into Racing Comments you will see that there are numerous people, mostly young men I guess, who go into raptures over the wing mirror shape of the Force India etc etc etc. What it is to be young and enthusiastic!

Just had to put it down, I'll understand if no-one sees the need to comment.

Barry,

You're spot on. I turned my computer on a few minutes ago, noticed the Ferrari item on the BBC website, thought the new car looked much like most recent creations, noticed the enthusiasm within Racing Comments and headed down here wondering if anybody had posted a comment! Must be an age thing because, although I realise how technically clever and efficient these cars are, they just don't get my juices flowing. I still watch every Grand Prix, am interested in who wins the Championship, but the cars, and the way they handle, leave me cold.
I suppose it could be argued that many 1950s front engined cars looked broadly the same as each other, as did the rear-engined models of the early/mid 1960s. To me though, it doesn't matter; they are beautiful (well, mostly!). In the 1970s, the sheer variety of shapes, sizes
and technical innovations kept me interested but I guess that, for me, ground-effects, and aerodynamic progress began the rot. Now I find the external shape of the cars too similar and, aesthetically, uninspiring.
On a bad day, I wonder if it's really all worthwhile. Good job that today I'm feeling cheerful.

[Giraffe]

F1 cars today are not designed for looks but rather to be efficient and effective, whatever that may require. The logical extension of this is that if all cars achieve the optimum within the rules of the formula, they should all be exactly the same in appearance. This is the price of progress.
Thank god it took so long to get this far and we have been able to enjoy the style icons along the way from in no particular order, Eagle, Brabham, Ferrari, Lotus, Matra et al.

[Hamish Robson]

Well I have to agree with you Barry. With the current tight regulations all cars seem to look very similar, I maintain that if they were all lined up side by side stripped of paint then all but the most obsessive anoraks would struggle to tell them apart.

Don't get me wrong, I've been watching F1 for over 30 years and watch every race live. But the cars in their current form do little for me. It makes me smile when the journo's and pundits get very excited and tell of a new radical piece of aero which transforms the look of the car. IT LOOKS EXACTLY THE SAME ON MY TELLY.

[Barry Boor]

The wonderful thing about the internet in general and TNF in particular is that it makes you realise YOU ARE NOT ALONE.

[Formula Once]

Exciting was when blurry pictures were published from tests at shady Ricard, misty Fiorano or sunny Rio; familiar helmets with last years sponsor logos still on them popping out of new, interesting test hacks with experimental wings, funny side pods or whatever. With no winter testing allowed nowadays and experiments being limited to the shapes and features of hospitality units, its rather hard to get exciting. And Bahrain... well it just aint Buenos Aires or even Rio now is it?

[Gary Davies]

Barry,

You're spot on. I turned my computer on a few minutes ago, noticed the Ferrari item on the BBC website, thought the new car looked much like most recent creations, noticed the enthusiasm within Racing Comments and headed down here wondering if anybody had posted a comment! Must be an age thing because, although I realise how technically clever and efficient these cars are, they just don't get my juices flowing. I still watch every Grand Prix, am interested in who wins the Championship, but the cars, and the way they handle, leave me cold.
I suppose it could be argued that many 1950s front engined cars looked broadly the same as each other, as did the rear-engined models of the early/mid 1960s. To me though, it doesn't matter; they are beautiful (well, mostly!). In the 1970s, the sheer variety of shapes, sizes
and technical innovations kept me interested but I guess that, for me, ground-effects, and aerodynamic progress began the rot. Now I find the external shape of the cars too similar and, aesthetically, uninspiring.
On a bad day, I wonder if it's really all worthwhile. Good job that today I'm feeling cheerful.

Barry, John... two nails. Two direct hits. It all started for me as a 13 year old on the 14th of May 1961 when BBC showed, in bits, the race in which Stirl outrageously beat the two Sharknoses in the welded up Lotus 18. Hooked 100% from that day on. Never looked back. Year on year, the magic never went away. The advertising, from 1968, slowed me for a while, the ridiculous spindly wings of early 1969 made me roll my eyes and when wind tunnels and computers began to seriously shift the equation from the cockpit to the computer screen, I felt distinctly uncomfortable.

Then there are the tacky goings on of the former FIA President and the apparently dubious financial goings on of the commercial rights holder. And Tilke tracks. And racing at places where the spectators have not the merest idea of what's going on other than a big deal or another Martini served by an equally confused waiter. But I maintained the faith... I did, I did!

Finally... after all these years, I think it's finally got to me. I imagine I'll watch most if not all the Grands Prix. (Should that be Petits Prix?). It is, after all, a pinnacle. But my interest in the sport I fell in love with nearly 50 years ago has just about been beaten out of me.

(Edit due to inadequate proof reading)

Edited by Gary Davies, 28 January 2011 - 11:36.

[Hieronymus]

...when the time came around to see the first new F.1 car to be announced for a new season. Today, in fact in an hour or so, Ferrari will be unveiling their car for 2011. Am I getting excited now? Well, er, hardly.

I am wondering when I stopped getting thrilled at the prospect of new cars. It must be 10 to 15 years ago, but I still feel a certain disloyalty to my favourite sport now that these new machines don't raise my pulse like they used to. They should!

Just had to put it down, I'll understand if no-one sees the need to comment.

I think that we'll only get excited again if we see something radical like the Tyrrell P34....

[Tim Murray]

In the 1970s, the sheer variety of shapes, sizes and technical innovations kept me interested but I guess that, for me, ground-effects, and aerodynamic progress began the rot. Now I find the external shape of the cars too similar and, aesthetically, uninspiring.

It makes me smile when the journo's and pundits get very excited and tell of a new radical piece of aero which transforms the look of the car. IT LOOKS EXACTLY THE SAME ON MY TELLY.

These comments sum things up for me. I just can't get excited about any new F1 car because I know the only difference from last year's car is going to be some minor aerodynamic tweak undetectable to the naked eye (well, my naked eye, anyway) and that it will be incredibly bloody ugly! I can't remember the last new F1 car I thought remotely good looking - it was probably the 1991 Jordan. If I thought that there was the slightest chance that a new car might be as beautiful as a Lotus 33 or BRM P160 I would definitely take more interest, but the current generation of mobile dog turds leaves me cold.

[stuartbrs]

These comments sum things up for me. I just can't get excited about any new F1 car because I know the only difference from last year's car is going to be some minor aerodynamic tweak undetectable to the naked eye (well, my naked eye, anyway) and that it will be incredibly bloody ugly! I can't remember the last new F1 car I thought remotely good looking - it was probably the 1991 Jordan. If I thought that there was the slightest chance that a new car might be as beautiful as a Lotus 33 or BRM P160 I would definitely take more interest, but the current generation of mobile dog turds leaves me cold.

Willaims Walrus was the last WOW car for me, but pug ugly... although the Mclaren of 2005 with the trick rear wing looked pretty sweet.. were grand prix cars ever designed with looking pretty in mind though? I just watched the Champions film of the 1973 year and those cars were UGLY!! Ok, the Lotus 72 was ok, but certainly a lot uglier than when it was born.. I think good looking grand prix cars are more accident of design than anything deliberate.. who is going to make a slow pretty car when they can make an ugly fast one.. the problem is when they make a grid full of ugly fast ones..

The last really good looking year for me was 1993 and 1994, McLaren MP4/8 and Williams FW16 looked great..I did like the original Ferrari F310 of 1996, but it was slow..it just had something about it, maybe red paint, they were still a bit special somehow then.

Nowadays, grand Prix racing is as much about the story off the track than on it, so be it, I still prefer it to watching running kicking throwing hitting a ball sports. I have noticed though, that you REALLY have to dig deep into it these days to appreciate the personalities at play.

But, I agree, modern car launches for me are ho hum now... tired of the PR bullshit... and for the most part the cars look the same, although, for some reason, I did quite like last years Renault.. there was something apealing about a small, lean, tight, crack racing team with one gun driver mixing it up with the big boys.. hmmmm...

[Stephen W]

I never got excited about new F1 cars when those blurry images appeared in Autosprout & Muttering News. However I did get excited on the lead up to my first F1 race of the year - usually the Daily Express International at Silverstone or the Race of Champions at Brands. It was the opportunity to see the cars in the metal that got my juices flowing!

Nowadays the first time I see an F1 car is on the TV at the first race of the year and I have to agree - they all look the same!

[charles r]

...when the time came around to see the first new F.1 car to be announced for a new season. Today, in fact in an hour or so, Ferrari will be unveiling their car for 2011. Am I getting excited now? Well, er, hardly.

Don't get me wrong, I still love Grand Prix racing and wouldn't miss a race if I can help it but I suppose it's my age; I just know that the new Ferrari is going to look like, I suppose, last year's Red Bull. In fact most of this year's cars are going to look like last year's Red Bull - except this year's Red Bull of course.

I am wondering when I stopped getting thrilled at the prospect of new cars. It must be 10 to 15 years ago, but I still feel a certain disloyalty to my favourite sport now that these new machines don't raise my pulse like they used to. They should!

If you dare venture into Racing Comments you will see that there are numerous people, mostly young men I guess, who go into raptures over the wing mirror shape of the Force India etc etc etc. What it is to be young and enthusiastic!

Just had to put it down, I'll understand if no-one sees the need to comment.

I totally agree Barry, particularly the 1970's crop, when the three litre formula came of age aesthetically in my view. Nearly all (March 701 excepted) beautiful cars in their own way. The new Ferrari is a Red Bull lookalike, nothing to get excited about there.

[jj2728]

...when the time came around to see the first new F.1 car to be announced for a new season. Today, in fact in an hour or so, Ferrari will be unveiling their car for 2011. Am I getting excited now? Well, er, hardly.

Don't get me wrong, I still love Grand Prix racing and wouldn't miss a race if I can help it but I suppose it's my age; I just know that the new Ferrari is going to look like, I suppose, last year's Red Bull. In fact most of this year's cars are going to look like last year's Red Bull - except this year's Red Bull of course.

I am wondering when I stopped getting thrilled at the prospect of new cars. It must be 10 to 15 years ago, but I still feel a certain disloyalty to my favourite sport now that these new machines don't raise my pulse like they used to. They should!

If you dare venture into Racing Comments you will see that there are numerous people, mostly young men I guess, who go into raptures over the wing mirror shape of the Force India etc etc etc. What it is to be young and enthusiastic!

Just had to put it down, I'll understand if no-one sees the need to comment.

Could NOT have said it better myself.....so I won't.

[alansart]

I think that we'll only get excited again if we see something radical like the Tyrrell P34....

I remember when I first saw the Lotus 72. I know Chapman was playing around with wedge shapes before, but it looked different and so beautiful. Then it turned into the JPS

I know Ferrari have launched their new car today. I haven't bothered looking at it.

These launches all seem generate an awful lot of bulls**t from team principles as well.

[Marticelli]

These launches all seem generate an awful lot of bulls**t from team principles as well.

I think you meant to say 'principals'... No maybe you were right enough, except they don't seem to have much in the way of principles at all these days!! As I said in another topic, personally I mourn the passing of the magneto!!

Marticelli

[Eric Dunsdon]

I dont remember them having these 'launches' for new racing cars in the old days, although there was, I suppose, one of sorts for the Mk1 V16 BRM. It was always exciting to see early grainy pictures of cars like the Lancia D50 and Maserati 250F in Autosport or Motor Racing. Of course, the latter car outlasted the formula that it was built for, and is still exciting! .

[SEdward]

As an example, look back at, say, 1972.

The cars looked and sounded radically different. The Lotus 72 looked nothing like the Tyrrel 003, which looked nothing like the Matra MS120 or the Ferrari 312B2, or the BRM P160, and so on.

As a spectator, it really seemed that the races were a confrontation between differing designs, approaches and whole philosophies. The only differences between today's cars seem to be the result of some tweaking and fine-tuning in the CAD-CAM software, or in the paint jobs. And they are as ugly as hell!

Edward

[Barry Boor]

And there was another one that was different from all the others too, Edward.

[Bauble]

I can see "where your coming from" Barry, but for me it all went awry when they started putting the engines behind the driver instead of where they should be - in front!

Yeah! Yeah! some Smarty Pants will say "What about the Auto Union?". That was just differnt to the rest, but since 1961, they have all looked the same. Mind you I remember reading somewhere that someone claimed to be able to tell the difference between a Ford Escort and a Vauxhall Viva, but they both looked the same to me.

I still watch all the Grand Epreuves, more out of habit than enthusiasm, so usually the highlight of the year is the Richmond Trophy at the Revival. Gary Pearson in the BRM, Richard Attwood in the Dino Ferrari, and Frank Stippler in a 250F is as close as you can get to proper racing these days.

I saw my first Formula 1 cars in 1951, so I at least had ten years of decent motors to watch.

[SEdward]

Barry.

Indeed there was. Maybe I should have chosen another year. Did the Connew qualify for the 1972 British GP?

Edward

[Option1]

All good points and some others have already mentioned it, but what disappoints me is the rules are now so stringent that, in effect, the rules design the cars. Particularly in terms of the bits we can actually see. Apart from some very minor visual variations, really they do look all the same now.

Neil

[Barry Boor]

Yes, technically it did. An irrepairable rear suspension rendered its start impossible.

[E1pix]

Totally valid Topic, agreed 100%. Been a huge fan since the early '70s, especially after my first race in '76. The cars were all totally ORIGINAL, at least in looks, and it was great.

I used to tell people what was so cool about F1 was gathering up so many dissimilar cars, built throughout the world, manned by team members from several cultures, driven by men who often couldn't understand each other's language — and have them all run very competitively to each other. Some of that's still true, but not as clear — at least, not to me.

I still watch every race, though. I don't know if I watch to recall the last race, or the distant memories.

[pete53]

I will check the results of each race and indeed watch a few on the box. I will mildly celebrate if Jenson or Lewis win a race, or indeed the title. But l no longer count down the days to the first GP of the year. A symptom of age? I'm not sure. Were the 60s,70s better? I think so, but then I remember sages shaking their heads in the 60s and saying the cars all looked the same, that there were no characters in the sport anymore and weren't the old days so much better.

What puts me off these days is the overbearing big brother figure of corporatism that has, over the years, increasingly cast its shadow over every aspect of F1 (as it has in so many aspects of modern life). I know the sport is a multi-million pound venture and that teams are hidebound by the need to keep sponsors sweet. I know that Bernie E is running a lucrative business that needs to be managed and marketed like any other major product. But corporatism tends to be the death knell of individuality, surprise, initimacy, improvisation and anything that hasn't been planned and controlled to the nth degree. (I've worked for a major corporation and know what a deadening experience this can be).

So gone are the days when a team might decide to run a third car at selected races or might only appear in selected events, when the winner was allowed a lap of honour, when you could visit the paddock and get a close up look at the cars, when the pit row didn't look like some sci-fi glass palace, when organisers could choose to parade drivers in open top cars before the race, when race programmes weren't like some glossy coffee table magazine, when race organisers had some autonomy, when GPs didn't have to start at the same appointed hour, when cars had numbers ... grumpy old man or what? but you get the gist of where I am coming from. The need to plan, manage and control everything results in predictability. Most of the time anyway. Fortunately and thankfully, human nature being what it is (somewhat uncontrollable) , things do still go awry - hence we can still have a Piquet/Briatore moment to upset the carefully groomed image of the F1 apple cart.

Yes, it's so much more professional now, but so much more predictable and impersonal.

[RStock]

I can see "where your coming from" Barry, but for me it all went awry when they started putting the engines behind the driver instead of where they should be - in front!

My thought for some time now has been that they should ban rear-engine or mid-engine cars. That would give us something different and make the engineers really earn their money. And I'd love to see what a modern front engined F1 car would look like. Something like a Super-Mod, I suppose.

I haven't gotten excited about anything since Ferrari (actually I believe it was John Barnard that deserves the credit) introduced the paddle shifter in '89. And I was torn about it. I rather see a good old fashioned shifter, but that was the best innovation I had seen in awhile. It made wonder why no one had used it earlier, though Forghieri did have something similar around 1980.

[MartLgn]

Well I have to agree with you Barry. With the current tight regulations all cars seem to look very similar, I maintain that if they were all lined up side by side stripped of paint then all but the most obsessive anoraks would struggle to tell them apart.

Don't get me wrong, I've been watching F1 for over 30 years and watch every race live. But the cars in their current form do little for me. It makes me smile when the journo's and pundits get very excited and tell of a new radical piece of aero which transforms the look of the car. IT LOOKS EXACTLY THE SAME ON MY TELLY.

Wholeheartedly agree, I think the actual racing has been pretty good for the past two seasons and there are some sizzling liveries (McClaren, Renault) but the cars themselves zzzzzzzzz
For me the last year in which each teams cars looked remotely different was 1997, but as has already been said it is the regulations that legislate how the cars look. IMO The last truly beautiful shape to start a GP was the 1995 Ferrari but the last launch to have me running to the newsagents was the 1989 Ferrari 640.

[MCS]

I can remember being amazed by the March Silverstone launch in 1970 when they announced their extraordinary F1 plans.

Because I was so young at the time, I suspect that this has stayed with me longer and stronger, as it were. But SEdward makes an excellent point in how different the cars used to look. It was genuinely interesting.

Others I remember most vividly are the Lotus 76, the Brabham BT34, the BRM P160 and the hideous first von Opel Ensign.

Anyhow, talking of hideous, as an example, here’s the March 721X provided by way of the Press Release picture that day:



An abject failure and a damned ugly car, but different at least, as indeed they all were then…

Edit: Actually, do you know what? I rather like it now in a strange way!

Edited by MCS, 28 January 2011 - 18:43.

[Paolo]

What about the F-duct? i know it's been banned and that was a pity, but it was something genuinely new, as was the double diffuser.

Barry, why do you think you're not excited about this year's Red Bull and the prospect of what Newey might come up with to stay ahead of the others?

You are right, F duct was novelty, double diffuser too, as were Renault's 10 cylinders and pneumatic valve system.

Yet there is something about visually detectable changes that hidden ones lack.

Oh, well, now they banned hidden changes too...

Now that I think of it, Newey's dorsal fin was a good innovation.

We get one every 7-8 years...

[Tony Matthews]

An abject failure and a damned ugly car, but different at least, as indeed they all were then…

Edit: Actually, do you know what? I rather like it now in a strange way!

I liked it from the moment I saw it! A pity it didn't work, like the 'Golden Bullet' Arrows, but I like anything that looks different.

[JockinSA]

I can remember being amazed by the March Silverstone launch in 1970 when they announced their extraordinary F1 plans.

Because I was so young at the time, I suspect that this has stayed with me longer and stronger, as it were. But SEdward makes an excellent point in how different the cars used to look. It was genuinely interesting.

Others I remember most vividly are the Lotus 76, the Brabham BT34, the BRM P160 and the hideous first von Opel Ensign.

Anyhow, talking of hideous, as an example, here’s the March 721X provided by way of the Press Release picture that day:



An abject failure and a damned ugly car, but different at least, as indeed they all were then…

Edit: Actually, do you know what? I rather like it now in a strange way!

Look and analyse this car and see todays excresences. Wiers sticky out side pods for the radiators. Huge strange shaped front "wing" that looks like a current one that has been filled in. Airbox that goes a long way back towards the rear wing rather like those today.
Blown diffusers. Nothing new,it was tried years ago. Long tail air boxes, tried years ago. Pull rod suspension, done years ago.

All Mr. Newey has done in my opinion is to look at history and use the best ideas that have all been looked at years ago. Turbocharging,ask Mr. Lanchester about his efforts at the turn of the last century. Split and blown wing flaps,ask Mr. Coanda at the turn of the last century.

There is nothing new that gets my panties in a twist. It is just some very good engineers who have a sense of history about them.

[IanDalziel]

What about the F-duct? i know it's been banned and that was a pity, but it was something genuinely new, as was the double diffuser.

Genuinely new? Loopholes in the tightly prescriptive/restrictive regulations, more like.

Which might be a clue to Barry's lack of excitement.

[Roger Clark]

Genuinely new? Loopholes in the tightly prescriptive/restrictive regulations, more like.

Which might be a clue to Barry's lack of excitement.

I suppose you thought the supercharger was FIAT's way of getting round the restrictive 1923 engine regulations.

[Phil Rainford]

I think that we'll only get excited again if we see something radical like the Tyrrell P34....

.....or the Arrows A2


PAR

[BullHead]

I sympathise with the OP. Innovations now have to be so subtle so as to stay in the ever tightening regs, they're hardly noticable visually. For the past 10 years the most visually different concepts to get excited about for me have been in liveries. except of course the 04 Williams Walrus nose.

[Tom Glowacki]

Exciting was when blurry pictures were published from tests at shady Ricard, misty Fiorano or sunny Rio; familiar helmets with last years sponsor logos still on them popping out of new, interesting test hacks with experimental wings, funny side pods or whatever. With no winter testing allowed nowadays and experiments being limited to the shapes and features of hospitality units, its rather hard to get exciting. And Bahrain... well it just aint Buenos Aires or even Rio now is it?

wings and sidepods?? Give me a new Ferrari with hand beaten unpainted aluminum bodywork!

[jj2728]

wings and sidepods?? Give me a new Ferrari with hand beaten unpainted aluminum bodywork!

How about a piece of duct tape holding some tatty bits together....

[john aston]

I am not the most technical bloke but even I could understand the differences between Lotus 72, Tyrrell OO5, Ferrari 641 , March 711 etc. It wasnt just the look but the sound- even at the height of the garagiste era there was always a Flat or V 12 to savour .I have always been a connoisseur of the noise of racers and the last time I could genuinely tell one from another was pre 2.4 era- and even then it was a struggle. Early 90s much better- remember the doomy howl of Peugeot V10 , wonderful Lamborghini V12 (sound not go )and screaming Ferrari 12s? .The daft little V8s all sound exactly the same and the only person who can tell one car from another - apart from colour etc- is Mark Hughes . And it has come to a pretty pass if all I am supposed to get excited about is some minute detail on the front wing. If Mark had been old enough he would have expired when faced with P34...

[Tony Matthews]

There are similar rumblings over on the Technical Forum, mainly about engine noise rather than appearance, and not from every poster, but there is a feeling that F1 is loosing its appeal.

[10kDA]

I have to agree, I feel little interest and next to no excitement about new cars, and it's not just F1 (remember when it was GP?). Sports cars are just about as boring as far as I'm concerned. I've looked at how I got to this point and I see a number of causes. I first got interested in auto racing in the early-to-mid 60s as Lotus and Clark brought something totally different and successful to Indianapolis. I realize now that the info being spewed out for consumption re: their effort was likely the work of Ford's publicity dept. The GP cars of that period all looked more or less the same, yet there was something about each one that set it apart. This "sameness" was pretty much a constant up until 1968 when wings came into use in F1. Why? Well, one thing I have seen time and time again over the years is that everybody who has finished second and lower in the points, no matter which championship we're talking about, will incorporate much of the winner's characteristics into their next design, and even race-to-race, for that matter. All well and good, that's the way racing has always been. There was always enough variation to make it interesting. These days, not so much. I think it's because the rules have become so specific there are only a very few ways to address efficiency regarding any part of the car defined by the rulebook, and of course, whoever is winning gets copied.

One factor that comes to mind is the tires. If everyone is running on the same tires per spec or rulebook, everything else about the cars will be designed to take advantage of the known quantity of the tires' characteristics. I think this aspect of rulebook racing has done the most to homogenize design and engineering, and in the efforts to level the playing field, made the on-track action suffer for it. I would love to see a major series drop any sponsorship by tire companies and encourage "tire wars" again. I believe we would see much better racing and more variation in the cars themselves, depending on who was riding on what rubber.

I was just a kid when I got interested in racing but as I grew and learned, I could look at various components on the cars and say to myself "I could make that... and that... and that..." But today's carbon fiber cars have taken the garage-iste aspect out of the mix. I can't identify with the creative process that brings a car of today into reality. I have worked with composites (airplanes and gliders) and as far as I'm concerned it is the most unsavory task I can think of to make something in these materials. Welding or riveting, no problem. But today's cars are created with the most advanced composite-structure technologies like resin-transfer and autoclaves etc, which can only be supported by huge amounts of money. The budgets for today's teams are staggering, both in the investments in technology and payroll. How many employees are directly involved in Honda's support of their Indy car engine program? Once again, I can't relate. It's hard to maintain interest in things for which I have no reference point.

These days it always seems to sort itself out early on into a season-long duel between drivers, sometimes between teams if the Number 2s are able to use the cars to their full potential. Back in the day, things weren't so predictable. It always seemed that from one race to the next someone would surprise everyone by being faster than expected, stir up the mix in qualifying and during the race, and could or would win or maybe drop out while leading - ex. and only a very few ex., Ickx, Siffert in 1968, or Amon for years and years. Today's F1 racing with its lack of true contenders has become a template for the journalists to exploit the "intrigue" and behind the scenes machinations. I have no interest in racing politics - which make the bulk of racing reportage inconsequential.

All personal opinion, your own mileage may vary.

Chris

[arttidesco]

I put my own not even knowing that Ferrari launched the F150 yesterday until now, thanks to Barry, down to the last strawberry never tasting quite as good as the first.

I find the Le Mans vehicle launches far more interesting though they are launched less frequently.

Edited by arttidesco, 29 January 2011 - 13:42.

[ianselva]

I have to agree, I feel little interest and next to no excitement about new cars, and it's not just F1 (remember when it was GP?). Sports cars are just about as boring as far as I'm concerned. I've looked at how I got to this point and I see a number of causes. I first got interested in auto racing in the early-to-mid 60s as Lotus and Clark brought something totally different and successful to Indianapolis. I realize now that the info being spewed out for consumption re: their effort was likely the work of Ford's publicity dept. The GP cars of that period all looked more or less the same, yet there was something about each one that set it apart. This "sameness" was pretty much a constant up until 1968 when wings came into use in F1. Why? Well, one thing I have seen time and time again over the years is that everybody who has finished second and lower in the points, no matter which championship we're talking about, will incorporate much of the winner's characteristics into their next design, and even race-to-race, for that matter. All well and good, that's the way racing has always been. There was always enough variation to make it interesting. These days, not so much. I think it's because the rules have become so specific there are only a very few ways to address efficiency regarding any part of the car defined by the rulebook, and of course, whoever is winning gets copied.

One factor that comes to mind is the tires. If everyone is running on the same tires per spec or rulebook, everything else about the cars will be designed to take advantage of the known quantity of the tires' characteristics. I think this aspect of rulebook racing has done the most to homogenize design and engineering, and in the efforts to level the playing field, made the on-track action suffer for it. I would love to see a major series drop any sponsorship by tire companies and encourage "tire wars" again. I believe we would see much better racing and more variation in the cars themselves, depending on who was riding on what rubber.

I was just a kid when I got interested in racing but as I grew and learned, I could look at various components on the cars and say to myself "I could make that... and that... and that..." But today's carbon fiber cars have taken the garage-iste aspect out of the mix. I can't identify with the creative process that brings a car of today into reality. I have worked with composites (airplanes and gliders) and as far as I'm concerned it is the most unsavory task I can think of to make something in these materials. Welding or riveting, no problem. But today's cars are created with the most advanced composite-structure technologies like resin-transfer and autoclaves etc, which can only be supported by huge amounts of money. The budgets for today's teams are staggering, both in the investments in technology and payroll. How many employees are directly involved in Honda's support of their Indy car engine program? Once again, I can't relate. It's hard to maintain interest in things for which I have no reference point.

These days it always seems to sort itself out early on into a season-long duel between drivers, sometimes between teams if the Number 2s are able to use the cars to their full potential. Back in the day, things weren't so predictable. It always seemed that from one race to the next someone would surprise everyone by being faster than expected, stir up the mix in qualifying and during the race, and could or would win or maybe drop out while leading - ex. and only a very few ex., Ickx, Siffert in 1968, or Amon for years and years. Today's F1 racing with its lack of true contenders has become a template for the journalists to exploit the "intrigue" and behind the scenes machinations. I have no interest in racing politics - which make the bulk of racing reportage inconsequential.

All personal opinion, your own mileage may vary.

Chris

I have just been reading a job lot of Motor Sport from 1969 that I bought off Ebay.
The difference is unbelievable. In each issue there is a technical rundown of the changes to each teams cars. Some teams didn't make each round either due to insufficient engines or money and their drivers drove for someone else. Some teams didn't bring the latest model for some reason and raced the old model.
There were non-championship races, the Targa Florio etc It just seems like a different sport, more like top class club racing of the day.

[jj2728]

Reckon we should all face up to the fact that we are the elder, dare I say, statesman. The F150 (this'll always remind me of a Ford pickup truck) thread in the RC section is 28 pages long and has over 1000 posts. At the end of the day I consider myself fortunate that not only have I been 'round long enough to look back with fond memories on seasons' past, but still get the tingle of excitement come race day. And who knows? The RC gang, I would like to think, will join those of us still around in 20 or so years time (provided TNF is still around too) and lament the passing of such cars that get them so twitted up today.