157 replies to this topic

[Lola5000]

I was thinking what happened to Bibs Brabhams,where they are now,there history.
Also what cars Bib bought back when he raced in historics?
The reference books I have are now well out of date including Blandens excellent book.
For example did he ever re-purchase his Gold Star '65 BT11? Some say that car was a BT11A others a F1 car thus BT11.

[Ray Bell]

That went to New Zealand after Mildren was finished with it, didn't it?

Gardner drove it in the '66 Tasman, of course...

[Allen Brown]

Definitely a BT11A

http://www.oldracing...arID=BT11A/2-64

[David McKinney]

Yes Lola, both went to NZ

The BT4 was raced by Bill Thomasen and various others then returned to Oz briefly (but not to Stillwell) and since 1995 has been in the UK. Last owner known to me was Alan Minshaw in 2009, but it was for sale then, and may since have changed hands

The BT11A went to Kerry Grant then in 1967 to Vince Anderson who, AFAIK, still owns it

[Lola5000]

At some stage he bought back his BT14 twin cam ,thats still in Australia.
As I've said before the BT31 is heading back to Australia.
Did he ever own and race in historics a BT33/Cosworth Ford,I have an idea he had one at Phillip island one year.

[Lola5000]

Definitely a BT11A

http://www.oldracing...arID=BT11A/2-64

Hi Allen,I thought that car BT11 was a spare F1 car that Jack put a climax 2.5 in for the tasman seies?

[lyntonh]

In Adelaide in 1999, Bib Stillwell ran a Brabham BT31 Repco in the Historic race.


Natsoft race results have Bib Stillwell Racing as the entrant.

Here he is with another aspiring racing driver....

[David Shaw]

Hi Allen,I thought that car BT11 was a spare F1 car that Jack put a climax 2.5 in for the tasman seies?

The chassis number explains it, IC-2-64. The IC is for Inter Continental, which is the designation they gave to their Tasman Formula cars. The Formula 1 cars started with the imaginative prefix of F1

[Lola5000]

The chassis number explains it, IC-2-64. The IC is for Inter Continental, which is the designation they gave to their Tasman Formula cars. The Formula 1 cars started with the imaginative prefix of F1

Thankyou for that.Great looking car.

[David McKinney]

The Formula 1 cars started with the imaginative prefix of F1

Whereas the 1957-60 Formula 1 Coopers started F2

[David McKinney]

Did he ever own and race in historics a BT33/Cosworth Ford,I have an idea he had one at Phillip island one year.

Nut Sure about PI, but he raced a BT33 in US historics in the late '80s

[David McKinney]

Hi Allen,I thought that car BT11 was a spare F1 car that Jack put a climax 2.5 in for the tasman seies?

Sorry to post three replies in a row...

There was a story at the time of JB's first BT4 that it was an uprated F1 BT3, but that applied to the design, rather than the specific car

[KarlLeFong]

Nut Sure about PI, but he raced a BT33 in US historics in the late '80s

He certainly raced the BT33 at Phillip Island in the mid-90's - I distinctly remember the BT33 and the BT31 side-by-side in the garage and I also remember seeing Bib bouncing the back of the BT33 up and down with his foot!

I also remember quite clearly, the late Ian Wells making the comment over the PA - "Stillwell's car is a Pukka F1 car" - as it roared down the main straight with its distinctive Cosworth DFV exhaust note.

Karl

[Lola5000]

He certainly raced the BT33 at Phillip Island in the mid-90's - I distinctly remember the BT33 and the BT31 side-by-side in the garage and I also remember seeing Bib bouncing the back of the BT33 up and down with his foot!

I also remember quite clearly, the late Ian Wells making the comment over the PA - "Stillwell's car is a Pukka F1 car" - as it roared down the main straight with its distinctive Cosworth DFV exhaust note.

Karl

I thought so,as i raced against the BT31 in M/O racing.Which Bib had/holds the PI group O record in.
He ran the BT33 against the P/Q cars thinking that the BT33 would outgun them,he was miles of the pace of the Lola T430.

[KarlLeFong]

Nut Sure about PI, but he raced a BT33 in US historics in the late '80s

Bib Stillwell re-bought his ANF2 winning Brabham 1500cc and raced it for several years in Historics in his period BRG and yellow colours, usually carrying the traditional No 6 - in fact after his horrendous crash in the 2.5 BT31 at the Geelong Speed Trials circa 1996/7 the "little" Brabham was his main car. I have attached a photograph taken at Eastern Creek at the Brabham festival circa 97/98.

Until quite recently the car was still running in Historics in the original colours, often carrying No6 - I am not sure if this car is still in Au though.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Karl

[Lola5000]

Bib Stillwell re-bought his ANF2 winning Brabham 1500cc and raced it for several years in Historics in his period BRG and yellow colours, usually carrying the traditional No 6 - in fact after his horrendous crash in the 2.5 BT31 at the Geelong Speed Trials circa 1996/7 the "little" Brabham was his main car. I have attached a photograph taken at Eastern Creek at the Brabham festival circa 97/98.

Until quite recently the car was still running in Historics in the original colours, often carrying No6 - I am not sure if this car is still in Au though.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Karl

I understand its still in Australia,I think owned by a collector in QLD.
I always liked the colours he ran on his cars.
The colours suit very much the early cars like his BT4 and 11.

[KarlLeFong]

At some stage he bought back his BT14 twin cam ,thats still in Australia.
As I've said before the BT31 is heading back to Australia.
Did he ever own and race in historics a BT33/Cosworth Ford,I have an idea he had one at Phillip island one year.

The BT31 is coming back home?

I was told that after Bib's passing, the car only left these shores for the sake of a miserable few thousand dolllars which upset a few local collectors.

Where, when and who has rescued it ..do we know?

Karl

[Lola5000]

The BT31 is coming back home?

I was told that after Bib's passing, the car only left these shores for the sake of a miserable few thousand dolllars which upset a few local collectors.

Where, when and who has rescued it ..do we know?

Karl

Yes Stan 100% coming to Melbourne with both motors and will be raced by the new owner,I'm told 1st race meeting will be Mallala at easter.Should be here within a month.

[KarlLeFong]

In respect of the BT33, the more astute among us will have noticed that around 1994, B S Stillwell Ford became Stillwell Ford and the buying of the company by Ford Australia coincided with the selling off of most of Bib's racing collection.

The car which had no Au history left our shores.

Recovery was quick

Karl

[Lola5000]

In respect of the BT33, the more astute among us will have noticed that around 1994, B S Stillwell Ford became Stillwell Ford and the buying of the company by Ford Australia coincided with the selling off of most of Bib's racing collection.

The car which had no Au history left our shores.

Recovery was quick

Karl

well put Karl.To the credit of the family what an awesome business they now have,Bib would be very proud of what his family have achieved in the last 15 odd years.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by KarlLeFong
.....Until quite recently the car was still running in Historics in the original colours, often carrying No6 - I am not sure if this car is still in Au though.

Yes, what an historic car, Stan!

A couple of ANF2 titles to its credit, it really did have a chance at the Gold Star and then actually won a Gold Star race at Mallala IIRC.

Bob Britton has some interesting things to say about the chassis, that model being (again, IIRC) quite unlike the others in some respects.

Edited by Ray Bell, 11 February 2011 - 09:30.

[Lee Nicolle]

well put Karl.To the credit of the family what an awesome business they now have,Bib would be very proud of what his family have achieved in the last 15 odd years.

Adtrans own Stillwell Ford and have for quite a while. Here in Adelaide they own Cornes Toyota also plus the Adtrans Used yards and some others too.

[GeoffR]

Adtrans own Stillwell Ford and have for quite a while. Here in Adelaide they own Cornes Toyota also plus the Adtrans Used yards and some others too.

So there is no Stillwell Ford in Melbourne now? I notice that the Stillwell Motor Group still has 2 Ford dealerships in Melb, but not the 'name' dealership, which appears to be only in Adelaide.
My daughter spent some time at the Warwick (SE Qld) TAFE with one of Michael Stillwell's sons in their 'motor sport' program. He was completing his final year and was about to return to Melb and the 'family business'.

[Lola5000]

So there is no Stillwell Ford in Melbourne now? I notice that the Stillwell Motor Group still has 2 Ford dealerships in Melb, but not the 'name' dealership, which appears to be only in Adelaide.
My daughter spent some time at the Warwick (SE Qld) TAFE with one of Michael Stillwell's sons in their 'motor sport' program. He was completing his final year and was about to return to Melb and the 'family business'.

As karl Fong said ,not for years under that name they do however own Knox Ford plus the marques ie Jaguar,Volvo and BMW.

[KarlLeFong]

The BT31 2.5 Repco Brabham at Phillip Island, circa 1992, as it set the still-standing MO lap record driven by Australia's Four Time Gold Star Champion.

URL=http://img820.imageshack.us/i/bibtas1.jpg/][/URL]

This car is coming home.
Karl

[Lola5000]

before the D/Heads banned the wings and tabs.

[Ray Bell]

Let's not forget that Stillwell made the beginnings of his fortune as a Holden dealer...

Like Reg Hunt, Stan Jones and others.

[KarlLeFong]

before the D/Heads banned the wings and tabs.

But what a beautiful car ......aww

I spoke to Bib at the "Creek," where he had been "done" for excessive noise from the BT31 ..I was like , an Au legend and he needs this bullshit?

Well they have all gone

Karl

[Lola5000]

So Bib ran the BT31 in two different colours the above and his 60s BRG with the yellow.

[Lola5000]

Let's not forget that Stillwell made the beginnings of his fortune as a Holden dealer...

Like Reg Hunt, Stan Jones and others.

Ray would one say Jones made a fortune,my understanding was much of his coin went into the 250F,certainly was not in the league of Hunt,Patto or Bib.
The '61 credit squeeze wipped him out.

[KarlLeFong]

So Bib ran the BT31 in two different colours the above and his 60s BRG with the yellow.

Yup....I have a picture of Bib and Gillian at Sandown, circa 1985, and the BT31 in BRG and yellow..as was the GT40 and the BT8

Karl

[Lola5000]

Yup....I have a picture of Bib and Gillian at Sandown, circa 1985, and the BT31 in BRG and yellow..as was the GT40 and the BT8

Karl

i was at that meeting to,1st time we raced my Elfin Mono #6441.
He also had there a lola t330.
A mate raced his Cooper t51? there ex Joh Youl/Bob Jane.

[cooper997]

Lynton's photos from Adelaide in 1999 would be from the Adelaide 500 meeting over the weekend of April 9, 10 & 11. When the organisers ran some races under the banner of 'Formula Adelaide' for mainly mid to late 1960's F1/Tasman type racing cars. This event could possibly be Bib's last race meeting. He passed away just 2 months later on June 12, 1999.


Regarding the BT33 racing at the Island, these are the Stillwell entries from the March 9 & 10, 1991 Phillip Island Castrol Classic :-
Events #3 & 15 (or 17) P & Q Racing - Bib Stillwell #6 Lola T330 5000cc Green/yellow.
Events #3 & 15 (or 17) P & Q Racing - Bib Stillwell #6 Brabham BT33 3000cc Green.
Events #7, 12 & 23 - M, O & Q Sports Cars - Bib Stillwell #6 Gulf Mirage GR7 2992cc Blue/Orange. He had set a lap record in this car for Group 'Q' Sports of 1.39.41 at the 1990 meeting.
Events #9 & 25 - M & O Racing, Bib Stillwell #6 Repco Brabham 2500cc Green/Yellow. Bib set the lap record for Group ‘O’ Racing of 1.38.45 on the Saturday.

Stephen

[Lola5000]

Lynton's photos from Adelaide in 1999 would be from the Adelaide 500 meeting over the weekend of April 9, 10 & 11. When the organisers ran some races under the banner of 'Formula Adelaide' for mainly mid to late 1960's F1/Tasman type racing cars. This event could possibly be Bib's last race meeting. He passed away just 2 months later on June 12, 1999.


Regarding the BT33 racing at the Island, these are the Stillwell entries from the March 9 & 10, 1991 Phillip Island Castrol Classic :-
Events #3 & 15 (or 17) P & Q Racing - Bib Stillwell #6 Lola T330 5000cc Green/yellow.
Events #3 & 15 (or 17) P & Q Racing - Bib Stillwell #6 Brabham BT33 3000cc Green.
Events #7, 12 & 23 - M, O & Q Sports Cars - Bib Stillwell #6 Gulf Mirage GR7 2992cc Blue/Orange. He had set a lap record in this car for Group 'Q' Sports of 1.39.41 at the 1990 meeting.
Events #9 & 25 - M & O Racing, Bib Stillwell #6 Repco Brabham 2500cc Green/Yellow. Bib set the lap record for Group ‘O’ Racing of 1.38.45 on the Saturday.

Stephen

In the P/Q race he ran the BT33 in preference to the Lolat330.
What a wonderful group of cars,20 years latter and the meetings has nothing to match this group owned by one man.

[KarlLeFong]

i was at that meeting to,1st time we raced my Elfin Mono #6441.
He also had there a lola t330.
A mate raced his Cooper t51? there ex Joh Youl/Bob Jane.

You are correct Lola ..it was rainy and i was concerned that Bib was going to take the Lola out..

However, it was the first time I had seen a F5000 painted properly without the stupid advertising we now accept as essential.

Karl

[KarlLeFong]

Let's not forget that Stillwell made the beginnings of his fortune as a Holden dealer...

Like Reg Hunt, Stan Jones and others.

How does that help?

What is your point?

Karl

[Lola5000]

You are correct Lola ..it was rainy and i was concerned that Bib was going to take the Lola out..

However, it was the first time I had seen a F5000 painted properly without the stupid advertising we now accept as essential.

Karl

We differ,i thought the colours were to old for a 5 litre car.That car is now owned by the Robsons.
I don't think Bib ever was happy/fast in the lola,mind you he was running against guys much younger and some whom had raced those cars for a long time.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by KarlLeFong
How does that help?

What is your point?

Simple, Stan...

Stillwell's name during the vast majority of his racing career was linked to Holden, not Ford.

As for Stan Jones and the fortune he made with Holden, it's true that the outcome wasn't as good for him as for the others. But along the way he spent money in huge quantities (I recall reading somewhere that he had more than one Cooper Climax at a time...) and his son reckons that all of his problems were from drinking.

In other words, bad management prevented him from being up there in the 'Who's Who' of Melbourne elite, not lack of income.

[Lola5000]

Simple, Stan...

Stillwell's name during the vast majority of his racing career was linked to Holden, not Ford.

As for Stan Jones and the fortune he made with Holden, it's true that the outcome wasn't as good for him as for the others. But along the way he spent money in huge quantities (I recall reading somewhere that he had more than one Cooper Climax at a time...) and his son reckons that all of his problems were from drinking.

In other words, bad management prevented him from being up there in the 'Who's Who' of Melbourne elite, not lack of income.

I don't think Stan would ever have been in the "who's who" of Melbourne elite unlike the Hunts/Stillwells he did not have there polish,great driver yes but as you said there were problems.
i remember some of the tales my mother told me as a kid about those days as her and the ex husband were in the thick of it.She blames a few of the then "stars" for her exs drinking issues!
As i said before I don't Stan was in the same league as Hunt and Stillwell in wealth terms.Lets not forget the wealth of Davidson and Patterson.

Edited by Lola5000, 11 February 2011 - 22:40.

[Ray Bell]

Maybe he was giving bigger trades to get the business from them... and not making as much on the deals?

I don't know, I wasn't there, but I certainly saw the Patterson, Hunt and Stillwell dealerships. You might remember, to get to the point of what I was saying, that Ford 'poached' some major dealers from among the ranks of racing drivers all about the same time.

Greg Cusack was another, he swung over to Ford in Canberra.

It was a deliberate move by Ford to have motor racing names among their dealers, coinciding with their world-wide involvement in racing.

[Lee Nicolle]

I show my youth, I can only remember the Stilwell operation as Ford products. I think there was more money in new cars then as these days they mae far more money on finance and insurance and accesorys than the vehicle. More money in used.
Premium upmarket new stuff still has some cream in it, though harder to shift and harder to get supply of.

[Lola5000]

I show my youth, I can only remember the Stilwell operation as Ford products. I think there was more money in new cars then as these days they mae far more money on finance and insurance and accesorys than the vehicle. More money in used.
Premium upmarket new stuff still has some cream in it, though harder to shift and harder to get supply of.

The Kew Ford dealership always had a strong service department from memory it had 2 shifts,plus they had truck division and large paint and body shops.That Kew dealership would have employed hundreds and spare parts was a large set up.
I spent some time in Tucson Arizona US where they had various dealerships,any one you spoke to knew of the Stillwells.

[KarlLeFong]

I show my youth, I can only remember the Stilwell operation as Ford products. I think there was more money in new cars then as these days they mae far more money on finance and insurance and accesorys than the vehicle. More money in used.
Premium upmarket new stuff still has some cream in it, though harder to shift and harder to get supply of.

Have a look at this Lee



Karl

[Lee Nicolle]

Have a look at this Lee



Karl

By that late 60s he became a Ford dealer. around my time!

[Lola5000]

Have a look at this Lee



Karl

karl whats the sticker on his sports jacket?

[ken devine]

It is of the subject but this is Stillwell deep in thought waiting to go out to practice for the 1962 AGP.






Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Edited by ken devine, 12 February 2011 - 00:46.

[KarlLeFong]

karl whats the sticker on his sports jacket?

Lola,

BRDC badge -.British Racing Drivers Club - for our younger viewers.

Most of our top drivers of the time wore the badge usually, on their racing suit and often on their car - even "North of the Yarra" Stan Jones....now that is an old Melbourne snobby term I bet you havent heard for a while.

Karl

[KarlLeFong]

So Bib ran the BT31 in two different colours the above and his 60s BRG with the yellow.

Lola,

Here is some evidence that in fact he ran the car BRG and yellow with and without wing and tabs, prior to going to the more attractive blue and yellow. Sandown circa 1987/88






Karl

[Lola5000]

Lola,

BRDC badge -.British Racing Drivers Club - for our younger viewers.

Most of our top drivers of the time wore the badge usually, on their racing suit and often on their car - even "North of the Yarra" Stan Jones....now that is an old Melbourne snobby term I bet you havent heard for a while.

Karl

thought it might have been some VHRR stick on

[Lola5000]

Karl,I ran at that meeting,second photo is my old mechanic,in the BT33 is a young "Bluey"
1st photo the Mono is GW,no longer with us ,but a top guy.