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Bahrain GP 2011-2012 and Bahrain public unrest (merged)


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#3051 Massa_f1

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 19:32

There should of been a back up race. Now with the likely hood if a months gap after round 3 what already had a 3 week gap between round 2. Frustrating as i just want to see racing.

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#3052 SimMaker

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 19:35

...and the moral high ground of the protestors, was lost.

Now it is a freedomfighter/terrorist propaganda scenario. Pay your money, make your choice. F1 will get the hell out of there and all hell will break loose.

I think of Bahrain, and I think of that momentary scene in one of the Matrix movies. Where, for a couple of seconds, after years in the dank darkness of a ruined earth, the pilots of some craft broke through the higher cloud layer, and saw for the first time, the bright light and blue sky of a sunny day....then they sank beneath the dark clouds and back to war.



Sigh...F1 get the hell out of there.

Edited by SimMaker, 09 April 2012 - 19:36.


#3053 Slowinfastout

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 19:36

If the Bahrain population doesn't have the clout to have a race weekend cancelled, what else are they ever going to achieve? What kind of concessions, or reforms, can they expect from their government when/if they can't get something as trivial as a weekend of racing to be reconsidered?

The opposite is true as well, what kind of government is willing to escalate an already painful conflict with its own population over something like this?

Clearly the whole thing has been blown out of proportion on both sides, but it's also a reflection of how bad things are over there... and IMO its a real shame for F1 to find itself in the middle of this mess, though F1 is actually responsible for that.

One doesn't need the details to see how patently absurd the situation is..

#3054 Dunder

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 19:37

There should of been a back up race. Now with the likely hood if a months gap after round 3 what already had a 3 week gap between round 2. Frustrating as i just want to see racing.


When would you start selling tickets for a back up race and who would ever book flights/hotels for a race that is unlikely to happen?
If you are a promoter of a 'back up' race, how much would you be willing to spend on marketing and events?

As appealing as having a race ready to slot into the calendar sounds, it just isn't practical.


#3055 Arska

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 19:49

Not that I support the regime of Bahrain at all, but some part of me wants that regime to stand up to FIA & Bernie and not cancel the race, no matter what - put the ball in FIA and teams' court. I've seriously had it with FIA & Bernie's politics.

#3056 BernieEc

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 19:51

To be honest it will be a miracle if this race goes ahead. There is just no way I see it taking place.

#3057 BiH

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 19:55

one of the best articles you will read

http://jalopnik.com/...-spin-the-press

F1 should stay clear of Bahrain


#3058 olliek88

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 19:59

James Calado on twitter.

How can we race in Bahrain.. 7 police offices injured today from home made bomb. 3 serious.. Protesters throwing petrol bombs.. #mygod


https://twitter.com/#!/jamescalado/stat...441393129824256

If only more drivers used twitter or anything to voice their opinions like this.

Edited by olliek88, 09 April 2012 - 20:01.


#3059 puxanando

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 20:00

If you are a promoter of a 'back up' race, how much would you be willing to spend on marketing and events?


Bernie could do this! He is the KING of F1 and has to be responsible for F1 and the fans!

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#3060 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 20:14

When would you start selling tickets for a back up race and who would ever book flights/hotels for a race that is unlikely to happen?
If you are a promoter of a 'back up' race, how much would you be willing to spend on marketing and events?

As appealing as having a race ready to slot into the calendar sounds, it just isn't practical.

Simply just do a race without public then. I'd say it's a right 'punishment' for Bernie and the FIA for making the mistake of putting Bahrain (or any other race which is controversial) back on the calendar. I mean, we could have easily gone to Turkey, there were never any fans there in previous years anyway.

Edited by DutchQuicksilver, 09 April 2012 - 20:15.


#3061 Crafty

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 20:24

I agree with Kate, I can see bad things happening if it goes ahead - track invasion ? occupation (by force) of the paddock - cars, teams members, drivers, what if a driver is kidnapped and taken away?
What we see there at the moment eerily similar circumstances that led to Fangio being kidnapped in Cuba at the 1958 race.

At the very least there will be demonstrations - look at the protests with guys walking around in race suits etc. They know F1 will give the world a view on their plight and they will be making the most of it. If that means endangering themselves or others they will do it.



#3062 Tsarwash

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 21:19

Yeah, and in two weeks you will forget about, and whats more, you will DO nothing about it. But take the moral high ground, for a few days.......

I'm here to talk about F1. Not religious groups wanting to dominate each other. Yawn!

I think that you're in the wrong thread then. Nobody's forcing you to post here. It's pretty clear that a thread discussing the possibility of an F1 race being cancelled on political or safety grounds in an Arab dictatorship/monarchy is going to touch on religion and politics.
Honestly, don't come into this thread and complain about it's contents. You don't like 'keyboard warriors,' stick to EVERY other thread in racing comments which don't discuss politics. Thanks.

#3063 Disgrace

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 21:30

If only more drivers used twitter or anything to voice their opinions like this.


Has he deleted that?

#3064 D.M.N.

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 21:31

Has he deleted that?

He must have, definitely seen Ben Constanduros retweet it earlier.

#3065 kar

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 21:31

one of the best articles you will read

http://jalopnik.com/...-spin-the-press

F1 should stay clear of Bahrain


Brilliant piece. Thanks for linking.

#3066 TheBunk

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 21:40

Posted Image

#3067 Fastcake

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 21:42

Simply just do a race without public then. I'd say it's a right 'punishment' for Bernie and the FIA for making the mistake of putting Bahrain (or any other race which is controversial) back on the calendar. I mean, we could have easily gone to Turkey, there were never any fans there in previous years anyway.


You can't organise an event of F1's magnitude to be held on an alternative location a thousand miles away with two weeks notice. It's simply not possible.

#3068 TheBunk

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 21:58

This regime owns half of Mclaren. Any more links with F1?

#3069 weareracing

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 22:05

A sitting member on the World Motor Sport Council, Sheikh Abdulla Bin Isa Al-Khalifa of Bahrain.
The Beatles sang that Money can't buy you love, but it can buy you a LOT of F1 influence. :smoking:


#3070 Snic

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 22:09

Pretty sure following Bernie's comments that this race is already cancelled behind closed doors and he is just trying to keep the organisers sweet by pretending to delay this for as long as possible. Hope his expert team of contract writers included a clause for termination of this contract if 2 consecutive GP's were missed due to political upheavals. Couldn't bare this nonsense again in 2013...

Edited by Snic, 09 April 2012 - 22:11.


#3071 Risil

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 22:10

James Calado on twitter.


Good going Mr Calado. :up: Wonder who advised him to take it down :well:

#3072 redbroccoli

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 22:19

This regime owns half of Mclaren. Any more links with F1?

Abdulla Bin Isa Alkhalifa sits on WMSC.

#3073 TheBunk

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 22:21

A sitting member on the World Motor Sport Council, Sheikh Abdulla Bin Isa Al-Khalifa of Bahrain.
The Beatles sang that Money can't buy you love, but it can buy you a LOT of F1 influence. :smoking:



Abdulla Bin Isa Alkhalifa sits on WMSC.


Wow. No wonder Bernie is so reluctant scrapping this race.

#3074 scheivlak

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 22:23

A sitting member on the World Motor Sport Council, Sheikh Abdulla Bin Isa Al-Khalifa of Bahrain.
The Beatles sang that Money can't buy you love, but it can buy you a LOT of F1 influence. :smoking:

I think Bernie remembers another Beatles performance

#3075 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 22:29

Brilliant piece. Thanks for linking.


Possibly the worst marketing/pr spend since New Coke. It's not like anyone is buying the "everything is fine, we welcome you to our oasis of calm".

#3076 TheBunk

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 22:43

http://edition.cnn.c....html?hpt=hp_t3

Bahrain says activist on hunger strike 'is 'fine'

#3077 SimMaker

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 22:44

I think that you're in the wrong thread then. Nobody's forcing you to post here. It's pretty clear that a thread discussing the possibility of an F1 race being cancelled on political or safety grounds in an Arab dictatorship/monarchy is going to touch on religion and politics.
Honestly, don't come into this thread and complain about it's contents. You don't like 'keyboard warriors,' stick to EVERY other thread in racing comments which don't discuss politics. Thanks.



I think you need my point of view even though you don't realise it, so I will keep posting as it obviously is a challange to you, and thats good, because then, hopefully, you will keep thinking. :wave:

Are you SURE that what the protestors are telling you is the truth? Is it really just a peacful Islamic popular uprising? Why the bombs and killing of police officers? Or is there another hand trying to destabalise the region? Are you sure, like the Kony 2012 internet craze, that you are not just falling for propaganda?

Seems to me that there are attempts to destabalise the region by some elements. What is needed is for neutral people to look at both sides. As soon as you "pick a side", you are just a tool.

I wonder, if the Arab Spring was as some intelligence sources say, an Attempt by Iran to get rid of western influence in the region. From terrorist attrocities in Iraq, to the Islamic Revolutions in Libya and Eygpt. Is'nt that possible? I know it is not a nice thought to think one may have been taken in by Iranian propaganda wars, but it is one of the possibilities that brought this "revolution" on.

I look at how Eygpt has decended in to an out of control mess since the revoltuion, and wonder if it is better the devil you know. I don't see people being hung for being homosexual in Bahrain, but it may be the case that you are supporting the side that would bring in strict sharia law such as Iran uses.

Is that what you want? Are you SURE that's not going to happen if you get the revolution you seem to want? It seems a lot of westerners thought the Arab spring would hail a new democracy in the Middle East. Has'nt worked out that way has it?

But is it possible that Saudi is propping up a puppet King, and keeping a boot on the majority for another reason? That they want to, in the end, crush Iran and what Saudi thinks of as its attempts to rule the region? I really don't know. So am willing to learn more.

See, I think it is best, to keep an open mind. Look at the two sides and try and understand whats happening. People such as yourself that seem to only want to hear one sided argument, or to shut people up, are part of the problem. You need to hear all sides do you not?

So I will keep posting. I believe there is an ignore function you can use if you don't wat to read what I write, or you can just ignore me.

When Finignig first started posting here about what was going on I was as shocked as the rest. (read back if you don't believe me) But as it has dragged on, I sense that it is being played out for the Western media. 13 dead last year before the race was canceled. Then nothing for a year. And when F1 and the world starts to look at the race this year, another protestor dies, and three cops get blown to pieces. Seems to me, it is a propaganda war being raged for the western benefit, as such, I think it is wise not to get sucked in as so many have.

Why so quiet for a year, then when F1 rolls around, off we go again. It's almost as if, there is no real desire for revolution.....or if there is, it can be put on hold for a year at a time? And then the Show can be put back on for the benefit of western eyes.

You sure you've not been had?



#3078 weareracing

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 22:58

Sim,
I think you'll find that the opposition and protests have continued throughout the year.
It's just the Media that pumps it up around the time of the Grand Prix.
A lot of info out there if you want to trawl the internet/social networking sites, up to you to stay or get informed. :kiss:


#3079 Slartibartfast

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 23:58

Yeah, and in two weeks you will forget about, and whats more, you will DO nothing about it. But take the moral high ground, for a few days.......

I'm here to talk about F1. Not religious groups wanting to dominate each other. Yawn!

I think you need my point of view even though you don't realise it, so I will keep posting as it obviously is a challange to you, and thats good, because then, hopefully, you will keep thinking. :wave:
...

(Patronising verbosity edited for brevity)

I usually try to inform other people about my opinion and use rational arguments to persuade them of the merit of that opinion. I find that attempts to tell other people what they think are interpreted as confrontational arrogance.

So, my opinion is that you should not get upset after posting

I'm more worried about the impact on F1. I really do not care about middle east politics

and

I'm here to talk about F1. Not religious groups wanting to dominate each other. Yawn!

if someone suggests that you avoid a thread that involves politics. To reply by making assumptions about their opinions and to defiantly state that you will continue to post on a political subject is a reversal of your earlier position.

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#3080 Felix

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:43

This regime owns half of Mclaren. Any more links with F1?


The Khalifas indirectly own 23% of ART Grand Prix - the GP2 team operated by Nicolas Todt, son of guess who.


#3081 Manneken3000

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 05:41

I just hope they race in Bahrain, with zero attandences, and NO one should watch it on TV. then we will see if we have Bahrain next year.

#3082 PayasYouRace

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:27

I doubt Bernie would be very happy about the racing taking place without TV coverage.

#3083 steveninthematrix

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:29

the deal breaker will be ....................


the insurance companies; if they tell the F1 teams they wont insure their billions in equipment/assets, the F1 teams cannot go.........; obviously these insurances companies know how the game works and will contact Bernie first... maybe big bern will stand surety?;)

#3084 SimMaker

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:33

If I recall last year, did'nt the Foreign Office issue a travel advisory about Bahrain, and it was after that, that the decision to not go was made?

What is the foreign offices stand this time around?

#3085 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:36

Bahrain is fine, Race must go ahead.

#3086 Henrik B

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:43

Of all the contrary opinions in this thread, I don't think I've heard anyone describe Bahrain as "fine" before.

#3087 Red17

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:43

I just hope they race in Bahrain, with zero attandences, and NO one should watch it on TV. then we will see if we have Bahrain next year.


I doubt Bernie would be very happy about the racing taking place without TV coverage.


Wrong.
TV coverage and tickets are not Bernie's game.
See how many empty stand GPS we had recently. Bernie could care less about tickets that give him no profit or the TV possibly covering embarrassing things live.
Bahrain's slot seems secure until someone in the FIA grows enough balls to refuse their money.

If I recall last year, did'nt the Foreign Office issue a travel advisory about Bahrain, and it was after that, that the decision to not go was made?

What is the foreign offices stand this time around?

Aparently no one is worried this time.
But these offices usually do a good knee-jerk when a foreign tourist gets injured.

#3088 Blutch

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:59

As far as I am concerned, I wouldn't go ! :well:

A home-made bomb has left four Bahraini policeman with serious injuries just over a week before F1 is scheduled to travel to the country. As the FIA continues to monitor the situation, Human Rights Watch has warned the governing body about events in the Gulf nation, with a number of protests continuing today.

“We consider this an act of terrorism,” said an Interior Ministry spokesman.

“On the ground, we see an increasing number of deaths and serious injuries from tear gas and beatings,” Joe Stork, representative for Human Rights Watch, is quoted as saying by the BBC.

“We're seeing in the last couple of weeks a spike in confrontations and clashes, with very deadly results.”

F1’s teams are expected to hold an emergency meeting in Shanghai on Saturday, in which the result could be to boycott Bahrain on the grounds of safety.

#3089 engel

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:09

“We consider this an act of terrorism,” said an Interior Ministry spokesman.


that's the buzzword that starts crackdowns. I feel sorry for the Bahrainis but I fear they may find themselves in the middle of a giant shitstorm.

#3090 Baddoer

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:15

I just hope they race in Bahrain, with zero attandences, and NO one should watch it on TV. then we will see if we have Bahrain next year.

I will watch. I care about racing, nothing else. Sure it's horrible (or maybe not, i don't know) what's happening, but this is just how it is.

Edited by Baddoer, 10 April 2012 - 10:15.


#3091 wattoroos

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:24

I think they should cancel it because i think protesters could potentially interupt the race and gives formula one a bad image.

#3092 Manneken3000

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:25

of course things will get worst. cause with the F1 going there, the media is increasing and the want to show the world what they can do.
They are not going to have a world media for the F1 there and be peacfull.

Me say they won't race.

#3093 jamiegc

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:25

I will watch. I care about racing, nothing else.


You wont see much racing in Bahrain. Worst race in F1, even worse than Valencia.

As for the race, Bernie says the teams will decide, and on the proviso that they'd need 100% agreement not to go, they would have to go. McLaren wouldnt veto it again.

#3094 Manneken3000

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:27

You wont see much racing in Bahrain. Worst race in F1, even worse than Valencia.


Agree, waste of time this track.

#3095 Baddoer

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:32

You wont see much racing in Bahrain. Worst race in F1, even worse than Valencia.

As for the race, Bernie says the teams will decide, and on the proviso that they'd need 100% agreement not to go, they would have to go. McLaren wouldnt veto it again.

Oh come on. Pirelly KERS DRS it surely won't be any worse than in 2010.

#3096 LoudHoward

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:35

Ignoring the first corner, I quite like Bahrain as a circuit (not 2010 guise) - some tricky corners in there. Racing wise it's not great, but the overtaking aids mentioned above will help that somewhat.

#3097 Sakae

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:51

It's nice to see that internet yet again managed to work itself to uncontrollable, borderline psychopathic frenzy about Bahrain. Number of empty seats in the stands is really none of my concerns, and I would find regrettable, if F1 lend itself to be used as a political tool. Surely it's not up to us to take sides in that conflict. Race should proceed, and F1 as a racing body resist being manipulated.

#3098 SimMaker

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:53

I think they should cancel it because i think protesters could potentially interupt the race and gives formula one a bad image.


That is how I feel. Worried about how F1 will look if it goes and there is serious trouble.

As for taking sides in the latest islamic jihadi holy war, not taking sides as I think religion is man made mumbojumbo anyway. So not sure how anyone can take sides in a "whose path is the real path" nonsense.

Let them get on with it, the internet warriors can go back to fanboy pi$$ing contests and the Jihadi can reak havoc in thier own lands.

F1 rolls on.

#3099 Fastcake

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:59

It's nice to see that internet yet again managed to work itself to uncontrollable, borderline psychopathic frenzy about Bahrain. Number of empty seats in the stands is really none of my concerns, and I would find regrettable, if F1 lend itself to be used as a political tool. Surely it's not up to us to take sides in that conflict. Race should proceed, and F1 as a racing body resist being manipulated.


So you do not care about the potential risk to F1 personal heading to an unstable country?

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#3100 Jackman

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:05

http://www.fco.gov.u...-africa/bahrain

That's an awful lot of warnings in place for a 'no restrictions' advice.