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Bahrain GP 2011-2012 and Bahrain public unrest (merged)


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#3101 Watkins74

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:07

A home-made bomb has left four Bahraini policeman with serious injuries just over a week before F1 is scheduled to travel to the country.

Waiting for someone to call this a peaceful protest bomb.

F1 doesn't need to get in the middle of this.

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#3102 PayasYouRace

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:07

Wrong.
TV coverage and tickets are not Bernie's game.
See how many empty stand GPS we had recently. Bernie could care less about tickets that give him no profit or the TV possibly covering embarrassing things live.
Bahrain's slot seems secure until someone in the FIA grows enough balls to refuse their money.


You really think Bernie would be happy to have the race take place with no one able to see it? Or the teams and their sponsors for that matter? I wasn't talking about tickets.

#3103 scheivlak

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:08

As for the race, Bernie says the teams will decide, and on the proviso that they'd need 100% agreement not to go, they would have to go. McLaren wouldnt veto it again.

Ultimately, it's not the teams but the FIA that makes the decision (apart from the organisers, but they won't be the first ones to move). Teams not liking to go will of course certainly be a major factor in this. And I think everybody's looking at each other who moves first; Bernie's words give me the idea that FIA and FOM like to see the teams take some responsibility for a cancellation.
Unanimity amongst the teams is not formal proviso here I guess (that's only of importance with certain technical rule changes).

McLaren is quite likely not to be the first team to veto, as it is owned for quite a sizeable part by the Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company - see e.g. http://media.mclaren...com/release/35/ ;)

Edited by scheivlak, 10 April 2012 - 11:14.


#3104 johnmhinds

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:08

At worst F1 will get a boring race, some negative press in the Guardian for a week, and it'll all be forgotten a week later.

Sadly...

#3105 blackhand2010

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:09

Frankly it almost makes me teary eyed and proud to be a fan, to see all the concern about how F1 will look if it doesn’t take the money of a repressive despot.
Frankly without such kind words and support, I don’t know how F1 would survive…


#3106 Sakae

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:16

So you do not care about the potential risk to F1 personal heading to an unstable country?

Have you read (or heard) about security arrangements in US during last superball? Why so much effort if it is a safe country? Feeling of "safe place" was mere mental state, and no one was talking about cancellation. How about South Korea and a concern that a stray rocket ends up in the paddock? How safe is that? How about all these nice bombings in India (Mumbai incident)? No concern at all?

We cannot hide from reality that through our past irresponsible behavior human race has created all kind of risk around the globe. Now we have to manage it. Risk of suicide and collateral damage exist all over these days, and once you start avoiding it, one day you might find that you have nowhere to hide, and whilst I do not want to see anyone get hurt, at the same time I think we have to race. There is no better option left, because if blackmail works now, it will be copy cat and used again.


#3107 D.M.N.

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:24

BBC's Dan Roan
Bernie Ecclestone tells me he sees no reason why Bahrain GP won't go ahead unless majority of teams refuse. Interview on BBC outlets shortly
12:20 PM - 10 Apr 12

#3108 jrg19

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:26

So its down to the teams if they want to race?

Hope we don't get a US 2005 situation, i know it was completely different I'm referencing only 3 teams racing.


#3109 Red17

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:31

You really think Bernie would be happy to have the race take place with no one able to see it? Or the teams and their sponsors for that matter? I wasn't talking about tickets.

Sponsors (particularly sponsors) and teams probably would also like to remain unconnected to the mess.
Hence why a mild censorship is not too far fetched.

#3110 D.M.N.

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:32

A few more tweets: https://twitter.com/#!/alaashehabi

Dr Ala'a Shehabi
Bernie Ecclestone just gave me a call on his way to China. He is very concerned with the situation in Bahrain and with Abdulhadi Alkhawaja. Ecclestone told me he is being told that Alkhawaja has had breakfast, lunch & dinner. I told him he is being force fed, which is torture. Ecclestone: I was told by govt that Alkhawaja will be released after his trial & will then deport him 2 Denmark & strip him of citizenship. Ecclestone: I want the opposition 2 have a press conference in which opposition can get their message across & 4 open dialogue. I tried 2 get the point across that he needs 2 give strong messages 2 govt & cancel the race because we want 2 enjoy it too but we can't

#3111 jamiegc

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:37

So its down to the teams if they want to race?

Hope we don't get a US 2005 situation, i know it was completely different I'm referencing only 3 teams racing.


Not a dig aimed at you, but your team of allegiance would be very happy to run the race alone infront of McLaren capped royals..

#3112 ryan86

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:39

James Calado on twitter.

https://twitter.com/#!/jamescalado/stat...441393129824256

If only more drivers used twitter or anything to voice their opinions like this.


I think for many of the drivers, espescially the younger ones, they may be putting much more on the line than just their opinions. If they become too politcal , it could be the end of their career so to speak, with teams unwilling to touch them with a barge pole. Morally, it might be honourable if they make a stand, but at the risk at what they've spent the past 15-20 years trying to acheive. It's asking a lot. Someone like Mark Webber voices his opinions, but he's near the end of his career and I think if you're honest, he's unlikely, as much as many would want to see him win the WDC, acheived as much as he is likely to, so he's not got much to lose.

#3113 D.M.N.

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:49

May I remind ALL users that participate in this thread that this thread is regarding the Bahrain Grand Prix, and its potential cancellation. Discussions pertaining other countries does not belong in this thread.

May I suggest that you take the discussion with regards other countries' actions to the Paddock Club or another thread, if you so wish.

Please keep this thread on topic.

#3114 Massa_f1

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:17

BBC's Dan Roan
Bernie Ecclestone tells me he sees no reason why Bahrain GP won't go ahead unless majority of teams refuse. Interview on BBC outlets shortly
12:20 PM - 10 Apr 12


They are mad if they go. If something bad happens they can't say they had no warning signs.

#3115 Dunder

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:27

BBC's Dan Roan
Bernie Ecclestone tells me he sees no reason why Bahrain GP won't go ahead unless majority of teams refuse. Interview on BBC outlets shortly
12:20 PM - 10 Apr 12


Typically pathetic move from Ecclestone to say the the ball is in the teams' court.
The teams are contracted to race at all events, it is the responsibility of the FIA to say whether there is a race in Bahrain or not.


#3116 D.M.N.

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:29

Interesting bit in one of Roan's tweets: https://twitter.com/#!/danroan

"One of the teams sent a person over there recently - and I've spoken to them today actually - and they said everything's perfect there's no problem. They've been to the circuit, they've been everywhere in Bahrain and they are very happy."

#3117 engel

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:31

Interesting bit in one of Roan's tweets: https://twitter.com/#!/danroan

"One of the teams sent a person over there recently - and I've spoken to them today actually - and they said everything's perfect there's no problem. They've been to the circuit, they've been everywhere in Bahrain and they are very happy."


I think he's quoting Ecclestone in that, it's not Roan's own info

#3118 MightyMoose

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:32

Interesting bit in one of Roan's tweets: https://twitter.com/#!/danroan

"One of the teams sent a person over there recently - and I've spoken to them today actually - and they said everything's perfect there's no problem. They've been to the circuit, they've been everywhere in Bahrain and they are very happy."


Probably McLaren & it was Ron Dennis, who's got previous for not knowing what's going on under his nose!

I hope I jest..... but sadly I'm not actually sure I'd be wrong!

#3119 D.M.N.

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:34

I think he's quoting Ecclestone in that, it's not Roan's own info

Oh yeah, I know that, I'm just wondering which team fed the info back to Bernie.

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#3120 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:34

Typically pathetic move from Ecclestone to say the the ball is in the teams' court.
The teams are contracted to race at all events, it is the responsibility of the FIA to say whether there is a race in Bahrain or not.


Well, the FIA, the circuit or the Crown Prince as far as I'm aware are the only ones that can cancel the race, but I share your opinion if it being pathetic by Ecclestone, as he knows that if the race isn't cancelled that the teams will know that they either go, or they don't but run the risk of a penalty of some sort for basically failing to fulfil their contract. Last year even had it not been cancelled the teams could've said "ah but the FO advice is basically only travel if you absolutely have to, which makes the legal side of things, insurance etc basically impossible to arrange, and so we can't go". They (currently) don't have that same reason for not going regardless of the race being cancelled or not. As it stands, if the race isn't cancelled, they either go, knowing the risk, or they stay at home and risk a enalty of some sort for failing to fulfil their contract. It's awkward, but I honestly believe that if the race isn't cancelled, that the teams will collectively agree not to go, and try and present a united front if they're charged with failing to fulfil their contract, saying that they knew they'd be taking a big risk, and they weren't prepared to risk the safety of anyone in their team.

#3121 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:38

Oh yeah, I know that, I'm just wondering which team fed the info back to Bernie.


Well, McLaren are part owned by the Bahraini's aren't they? Or have a Bahrani sponsor or 2 (apologies if I'm not totally accurate on that as I can't remember exactly). I wonder if it'd be them, because part of me thinks that they'd hardly want the person to come back and basically publically slag off Bahrain saying it's not as bad as last year but it's still dangerous and so they shouldn't go, when they'd have the Bahrani's to think about with them being part of the team, and not wanting to upset them etc. However that's merely a gut feeling, and my own opinion, nothing more than that.

#3122 PayasYouRace

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:41

Sponsors (particularly sponsors) and teams probably would also like to remain unconnected to the mess.
Hence why a mild censorship is not too far fetched.


I was responding a post that said no one should watch it on TV. Having the race in total blackout wouldn't suit anyone and would hardly be mild censorship.

I don't think the race should go ahead, but if it did I'd expect to be able to watch it. I'd also expect the teams sponsors would want people seeing them. Basically, if no one is going to be able to watch the race it might as well be cancelled anyway.

Edited by PayasYouRace, 10 April 2012 - 12:43.


#3123 Iseriouslyhadenough

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 13:27

That's pathetic. You read and trust too much press. I bet so-called rebels are hired and paid by US or other interested side and it's actually a small part of Bahrain citizens. To judge whether there are terror or not you should visit Bahrain and live for a while. Everything else just speculations you read somewhere in internet.


Wow. This post really has made me laugh. (Even if the Bahraini matter is nothing to laugh about)

Like, 0 facts right. US are an ally of the king, therefore they won't mind at all if he uses Pakistani mercs or Saudi tanks to crush the clear majority of his people. They probably cheer him secretly, while officially of course they say they're not amused about it. Just as officially the British will say it's not OK. But no actions. The king has the full support of all his sunni friends from the other sunni states. Just he has only a small minority of the Bahrainis behind him.

Because the people of Bahrain are fed up by his cleptocratic regime. Because they have enough of discrimination of Shiite people. Because they have enough of being forced to be friends to such archaic countries like Saudi Arabia. They want independence from their "friends". They don't like having the US main regional battle fleet in their harbors. They don't want to pay, every Bahraini of them, approx. 100$ per person just so the king can hold his little F1 race. (50 million $ per year / 500.000 Bahrainis)


Free Bahrain! Down with the dictatorship!

Edited by Gilles4Ever, 10 April 2012 - 20:15.
Removed "How much does the gouvernment pay you, CharlieBrown? Given the other Pro-Gouvernment posts without any sense you've been spamming across here, it must be quite a lot."


#3124 hunnylander

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 13:47

Because the people of Bahrain are fed up by his cleptocratic regime. Because they have enough of discrimination of Shiite people. Because they have enough of being forced to be friends to such archaic countries like Saudi Arabia. They want independence from their "friends". They don't like having the US main regional battle fleet in their harbors. They don't want to pay, every Bahraini of them, approx. 100$ per person just so the king can hold his little F1 race. (50 million $ per year / 500.000 Bahrainis)

There is no personal income tax in Bahrain. Just saying.

#3125 TimRTC

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 13:47

I think Bernie's biggest mistake was delaying the decision. If he had decided to pull the race a month ago then there would have been time to find a replacement circuit - use a European one and it would avoid any real visa or travel problems for the teams - I'm sure they could easily fill the grandstands and most importantly they would get the TV coverage. I would imagine that F1 lost out on a lot of money when they didn't run the last race (or do they have a contract with the TV providers that protects them against race cancellation?).

#3126 jamiegc

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 13:52

Interesting bit in one of Roan's tweets: https://twitter.com/#!/danroan

"One of the teams sent a person over there recently - and I've spoken to them today actually - and they said everything's perfect there's no problem. They've been to the circuit, they've been everywhere in Bahrain and they are very happy."


You don't need to be a brain surgeon to know which team it was, and how that conclusion was reached.

Ever since the uprising started, Westerners have been invited over and given guided tours or strategically chosen areas.

Cynical as it gets.

#3127 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 14:17

Posts have been deleted and edited again.

Please respect others' opinions and discuss the matter in a civilised manner.
Please limit the discussion to the situation in Bahrain and the effects on the Bahrain GP. This thread is not for discussing the political situations in other countries or politics in general that discussion is for the Paddock Club.

#3128 TimRTC

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 14:22

To be honest, I can't see any of the sponsors or TV providers pulling out of this. I think it will go ahead.

Look at an event like the Chinese Olympics, before it started there was a lot of controversy over China's actions in Tibet as well as concerns about terrorism etc, yet all of the major sponsorship firms remained and there seemed to be no drop in viewing figures.

(EDIT: as per post above, just using this as an example not wanting to discuss China specifically)

Edited by TimRTC, 10 April 2012 - 14:24.


#3129 Gemini

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 14:35

I hope the race will go ahead.

#3130 hunnylander

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 14:38

You don't need to be a brain surgeon to know which team it was, and how that conclusion was reached.

Ever since the uprising started, Westerners have been invited over and given guided tours or strategically chosen areas.

Cynical as it gets.

Could it be the protest issues are in deed localized into small villages?

Some of you were talking about news/rumours of tear gassed villages, no?

So sometimes it's true, sometimes it isn't? Bahrain isn't just a small village, right? And the track is literally in the desert.

What the heck do you or me know about the real situations and localizations of them in Bahrain? At least I admit, I can know jackshit about it, because I'm not there to check it for real.

#3131 Slowinfastout

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 15:05

Could it be the protest issues are in deed localized into small villages?

Some of you were talking about news/rumours of tear gassed villages, no?

So sometimes it's true, sometimes it isn't? Bahrain isn't just a small village, right? And the track is literally in the desert.

What the heck do you or me know about the real situations and localizations of them in Bahrain? At least I admit, I can know jackshit about it, because I'm not there to check it for real.


Look at the small village in the background..

Edited by Slowinfastout, 10 April 2012 - 15:06.


#3132 hunnylander

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 15:19

Look at the small village in the background..

Then name the exact place. I cannot identify the place seen in the video.

Could you verify the exact date of the making of the video? Upload date means nothing.

I couldn't exclude, neither verify it's recent.

Is it an allowed protest or an illegal one? Seems peaceful, I can't see tear gas in use either.


Yeah, it's so easy, we just read the internet, watch YouTube and know everything in the world precisely.

#3133 Slowinfastout

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 15:27

It was shot in Bahrain 4 days ago.. and it's clearly not a village. I think it's the same march where they had the racing outfits.

So that at least addresses a few of your concerns.

I get the impression that no amount of information will do for you, though.

edit: I don't quite get your point about legal or illegal protests either. For me the point is that the population is protesting on a massive scale (considering the size of the country), and the GP is specifically targeted in the demands of the population.. whether that's a good thing or not isn't really the crux of the matter on an F1 forum, but to be in denial about the fact the race has been politicized on both sides of a potentially explosive conflict is just silly..

Edited by Slowinfastout, 10 April 2012 - 15:33.


#3134 gricey1981

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 15:36

Dont think they will race - buts its not as black and white as it seems.

Iran definitely have a hand in riling up the protestors


#3135 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 15:39

That's just the convenience of them having shared goals, but for very different reasons.

#3136 jrg19

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 15:52

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/98693

Bahrain chairman Zayed Al Zayani says 'scaremongering extremists' are the cause for alarm over the Sakhir event

#3137 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 15:55

And the team doing the inspection was Lotus.

#3138 milestone 11

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 15:56

Oh yeah, I know that, I'm just wondering which team fed the info back to Bernie.

Lotus.

#3139 Slowinfastout

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 15:58

If there is going to be protestation then it will be confined to peaceful protests


'confined' to peaceful protest? :drunk:

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#3140 Red17

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 16:03

And the team doing the inspection was Lotus.

You beat me to it.

Anyway, that statement is... what's the word? Bollocks?
I hardly believe people like finignig are armchair experts with hidden agendas, he seems like a genuine fan of motor sports who is revolted that a peacefull demonstration was overturned brutally by his own government. The same government that dragged his sport into politics. It really is sad that these so called scouts are being nose guided to locations under tight security and completely announced.

Or maybe im just stupid. But if I wanted real eyes on the scene I would send a John Smith and not tell anyone.
What's the purpose of evaluating the situation under a fake environment?

#3141 Sakae

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 16:04

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/98693

Bahrain chairman Zayed Al Zayani says 'scaremongering extremists' are the cause for alarm over the Sakhir event

Probably correct assertion to large extend. What was initially a basic inquiry about the situation, Hill and alike managed to make Mount Etna out of it.

#3142 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 16:07

Well, the idea that the race itself would be a danger zone is arguably an exaggeration. But things are pretty chaotic in Bahrain at the moment.

This is now doubly amusing.
Posted Image

#3143 Slowinfastout

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 16:17

Probably correct assertion to large extend. What was initially a basic inquiry about the situation, Hill and alike managed to make Mount Etna out of it.


I think Hill was spot-on..

Earlier this week Hill urged a rethink about the race going ahead, because of the ongoing situation in the Gulf state - and he has reiterated his belief that it would be wrong for the event to be used for political means by Bahrain's rulers.

"I think under the right circumstances it would be OK," he said. "I don't doubt that they could hold the grand prix, but if they held the grand prix and in order to hold the grand prix they have to impose very serious security measures to prevent protestors making their point, then it would appear that the event is taking place on one side of the argument. That is the worry for the reputation of the sport; that it is actually taking political sides."



#3144 hunnylander

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 16:17

It was shot in Bahrain 4 days ago.. and it's clearly not a village. I think it's the same march where they had the racing outfits.

So that at least addresses a few of your concerns.

I get the impression that no amount of information will do for you, though.

Hey, I'm just being sceptical to show some perspective, to teach some common sense or cautiousness.

You may be right or wrong in your assumptions, but you couldn't verify the date, couldn't name the place and couldn't tell me if it was a legal or illegal event.

Furthermore, again just theoretically, which political party or factions on the video, what's on the banners, what's the purpose of the event?

Speculations, assumptions, opinions are not the same as verified facts.

Could you call of the F1 race based on that YouTube video, if you were responsible for the decision?

#3145 Slowinfastout

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 16:19

Hey, I'm just being sceptical to show some perspective, to teach some common sense or cautiousness.

You may be right or wrong in your assumptions, but you couldn't verify the date, couldn't name the place and couldn't tell me if it was a legal or illegal event.

Furthermore, again just theoretically, which political party or factions on the video, what's on the banners, what's the purpose of the event?

Speculations, assumptions, opinions are not the same as verified facts.

Could you call of the F1 race based on that YouTube video, if you were responsible for the decision?


You don't show perspective, you show deluded obfuscation...

#3146 Fergo

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 17:42

You don't show perspective, you show deluded obfuscation...

In all fairness, he makes a valid point. I remember last year there was a march that was reported as an anti government protest when it was actually in support of the royal family. You should take everything gets reported in the middle east with a slight pinch of salt as many people do actually have agendas.

#3147 WhatOh

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 17:45

What penalty would any team pulling out face? I mean aside from the loss of potential points.

Edited by WhatOh, 10 April 2012 - 17:51.


#3148 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 17:49

There's usually fines for missing races.

#3149 D.M.N.

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 17:57

Looks like the Lotus report was quoted without they being told: https://twitter.com/adamcooperf1

Adam Cooper ‏
#F1 I'm told that Lotus F1 hadn't given permission for its report to be quoted in the Bahrain Circuit press release...
6:49 PM - 10 Apr 12

#3150 Slowinfastout

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 18:00

In all fairness, he makes a valid point. I remember last year there was a march that was reported as an anti government protest when it was actually in support of the royal family. You should take everything gets reported in the middle east with a slight pinch of salt as many people do actually have agendas.


Pretty sure this march really happened last Friday, it was on various news reports.. also you can read 'we want a civil state' on one banner, so I doubt they're supporting the royal family.

I'm also not an expert on estimating the size of a crowd, but this is a rather large group of people there.. if anyone can show me a similar display in support of the monarchy I will give it great attention..