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Bahrain GP 2011-2012 and Bahrain public unrest (merged)


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#3151 Slowinfastout

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 18:03

Looks like the Lotus report was quoted without they being told: https://twitter.com/adamcooperf1

Adam Cooper ‏
#F1 I'm told that Lotus F1 hadn't given permission for its report to be quoted in the Bahrain Circuit press release...
6:49 PM - 10 Apr 12


They probably don't want to be perceived to be in the wrong group if the race is called off this weekend.

According to Gazzetta dello Sport today 10 of the 12 team principals are in favour of the race being called off. One team sent its team manager over there to recce the situation last week and he reported back to other teams that things don’t look particularly unusual, but the situation is evolving quite quickly and what is clear is that there will be intense meetings between Bernie Ecclestone (who will be attending his first race of the season), FIA president Jean Todt and the teams during the Chinese Grand Prix weekend.


http://www.jamesalle...for-gp-weekend/

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#3152 Oracle

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 18:53

Hey, I'm just being sceptical to show some perspective, to teach some common sense or cautiousness.

You may be right or wrong in your assumptions, but you couldn't verify the date, couldn't name the place and couldn't tell me if it was a legal or illegal event.

Furthermore, again just theoretically, which political party or factions on the video, what's on the banners, what's the purpose of the event?

Speculations, assumptions, opinions are not the same as verified facts.

Could you call of the F1 race based on that YouTube video, if you were responsible for the decision?


This is an award winning documentary from last winter. It was produced by Al Jazeera English. It has never been showed on Al Jazeera Arabic. Some time after its airing on AJE the AJ boss Wadah Khanfar who was very much a creator of AJ's more journalistic approach to reporting had to resign and was replaced by a member of the royal family of Qatar.



The present protests are the ACT II of the last year's protests so to speak

I recomend you watch it.

EDIT: Broken link

Edited by Oracle, 10 April 2012 - 18:57.
Corrected the link


#3153 artista

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 19:32

Looks like the Lotus report was quoted without they being told: https://twitter.com/adamcooperf1

Adam Cooper ‏
#F1 I'm told that Lotus F1 hadn't given permission for its report to be quoted in the Bahrain Circuit press release...
6:49 PM - 10 Apr 12

Lotus has issued an official statement about the issue. They really don't sound very happy about the BIC at the moment:
http://f1enigma.word...ent-on-bahrain/


#3154 pdac

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 20:41

I think Bernie's biggest mistake was delaying the decision. If he had decided to pull the race a month ago then there would have been time to find a replacement circuit - use a European one and it would avoid any real visa or travel problems for the teams - I'm sure they could easily fill the grandstands and most importantly they would get the TV coverage. I would imagine that F1 lost out on a lot of money when they didn't run the last race (or do they have a contract with the TV providers that protects them against race cancellation?).

As Bernie has stated several times, it's not for him to pull the race - and don't worry, I'm sure he has the financial situation sorted to his satisfaction whatever happens.

#3155 Risil

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 21:01

Lotus has issued an official statement about the issue. They really don't sound very happy about the BIC at the moment:
http://f1enigma.word...ent-on-bahrain/


This is becoming absurd.

#3156 TheBunk

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 21:05

Lotus has issued an official statement about the issue. They really don't sound very happy about the BIC at the moment:
http://f1enigma.word...ent-on-bahrain/

:lol: Comical.

#3157 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 21:09

Now this is the kind of F1 politics we're used to :p

#3158 Slowinfastout

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 21:40

Now this is the kind of F1 politics we're used to :p


Yep, lol

I wonder how and why BIC was made aware of this 'full internal and confidential working document'?

Sounds to me like the Lotus guys got the red carpet treatment and the report went to the Bahrainis for approval, or something..

#3159 jrg19

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 21:43

Anyone getting the feeling we could end up going to Bahrain for the GP have a massive uproar about it and 2 weeks after it won't even be a headline?

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#3160 Mandzipop

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 21:47

Anyone getting the feeling we could end up going to Bahrain for the GP have a massive uproar about it and 2 weeks after it won't even be a headline?


I know what you mean. It's like there is a media blackout. To me it feels like F1 fans are the only ones who seem to have any idea that there are issues in Bahrain.

Am I alone in this?

#3161 Slowinfastout

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 21:49

Anyone getting the feeling we could end up going to Bahrain for the GP have a massive uproar about it and 2 weeks after it won't even be a headline?


It's a possibility, but it's probably the best case scenario and still hell of a risk for F1.

Plus, that still means accepting to go race in kind of an empty bubble surrounded by a full blown military perimeter, while people and riot police are throwing crap at each others at strategic choke points..

Not exactly a cause for celebration.

Edited by Slowinfastout, 10 April 2012 - 21:50.


#3162 jrg19

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 21:53

It's a possibility, but it's probably the best case scenario and still hell of a risk for F1.

Plus, that still means accepting to go race in kind of an empty bubble surrounded by a full blown military perimeter, while people and riot police are throwing crap at each others at strategic choke points..

Not exactly a cause for celebration.


Would also be interesting how the drivers might react on the podium for example.

#3163 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 22:03

It's getting some coverage in the British papers actually, outside of the sports section. It was front page of The Times on Monday.

#3164 RedOne

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 22:03

You beat me to it.

Anyway, that statement is... what's the word? Bollocks?
I hardly believe people like finignig are armchair experts with hidden agendas, he seems like a genuine fan of motor sports who is revolted that a peacefull demonstration was overturned brutally by his own government. The same government that dragged his sport into politics. It really is sad that these so called scouts are being nose guided to locations under tight security and completely announced.

Or maybe im just stupid. But if I wanted real eyes on the scene I would send a John Smith and not tell anyone.
What's the purpose of evaluating the situation under a fake environment?


It kind of reminds me of this but with 'we don't have weapons of mass destruction' replaced with 'everything is fine, there's no big deal'.

Edited by RedOne, 10 April 2012 - 22:09.


#3165 scheivlak

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 22:25

It's getting some coverage in the British papers actually, outside of the sports section.

Like wise here in the Netherlands http://www.volkskran...r-Bahrein.dhtml

Germany: http://www.faz.net/a...n-11713621.html
http://www.sueddeuts...-blut-1.1328759

Belgium: http://www.demorgen....-afgelast.dhtml



#3166 Fastcake

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 22:34

It's getting some coverage in the British papers actually, outside of the sports section. It was front page of The Times on Monday.


And it's been one of the headlines in the news the past few days. It's certainly becoming a big issue outside F1.

#3167 Slartibartfast

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 22:52

(Tifosi4ever @ Apr 8 2012, 01:39)
I work in the banking industry


Jp

I think that is an unwarranted slur on the largely ethical and right-thinking people who work in the banking industry. I am sure that you cannot find a single instance of a less-than-praiseworthy individual in the sector. If one wants to witness the humanity and empathy of the typical member of the industry one only needs to look at the expressions of concern exhibited in this very thread where self-admitted members of the banking industry have... er... umm...


Edited by MightyMoose, 11 April 2012 - 04:14.
Quoted post by Tifosi4ever that was O/T and subsequently deleted making comment unnecessary


#3168 weareracing

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 23:29

Slarti,
this thread reminds me of 2 mantras.
IGNORANCE is BLISS, and
BUSINESS is BUSINESS.
Nice to see that an ex-London cop is "advising" the authorities regarding security, it's what Britain is best at!

#3169 tomspar

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 23:34

Slarti,
this thread reminds me of 2 mantras.
IGNORANCE is BLISS, and
BUSINESS is BUSINESS.
Nice to see that an ex-London cop is "advising" the authorities regarding security, it's what Britain is best at!

they also hired a headcracker from the usa

http://mondoweiss.ne...r-ministry.html

i got a feeling that if that hunger striker dies during the gp weekend, it will be like the day King got shot, built-up rage unleashed.

#3170 Slartibartfast

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 23:40

Slarti,
this thread reminds me of 2 mantras.
IGNORANCE is BLISS, and
BUSINESS is BUSINESS.
Nice to see that an ex-London cop is "advising" the authorities regarding security, it's what Britain is best at!

"Kettling" on the streets of London was bad enough, but when it gets mis-translated by people that believe in the liberal use of CS gas...

Still, at least John Yates is leaving the UK without the need for an extradition warrant.

#3171 Dunder

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 23:54

OK, so in Bahrain, protest is allowed. In China it isn't. So, where should we go?


Protest in Bahrain is legal if a permit is granted.
Protest in China is legal if a permit is granted.

To my knowledge there is no data available that would shed light on how many permits have been applied for/granted.

#3172 pRy

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 00:05

I read a quote somewhere earlier from someone in Bahrain suggesting Bernie could be the 'middle man' between the protest movement and the government. The world has gone bonkers.

Big decision for Jean Todt.. probably his biggest since he took over.

#3173 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:05

If they want to protest they can protest elsewhere and leave us have our GP.

Sounds like a terrorist act, and if these people really are intent on causing harm and kidnapping drivers and or public then their cause gets no sympathy from me.

#3174 hansmann

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:06

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/98693

Bahrain chairman Zayed Al Zayani says 'scaremongering extremists' are the cause for alarm over the Sakhir event


I don't know, I think I'll rather read the reports of the independent local media and the human rights NGOs which are in the country .
Wait - ....;)

This Zayani isn't helping his cause - who would ever believe a Middle Eastern stooge ?
Lacking independent information from the country, to me the only reliable sources are the the established Western media outlets .

It amazes me that some people will still trust in the statements made by a totalitarian regime .


#3175 hansmann

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:11

If they want to protest they can protest elsewhere and leave us have our GP.


THEY live there, and OUR GP is being held in THEIR country . :rolleyes:

#3176 Manneken3000

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 03:18

Cancel the Bahrain F1 event. End of the story!.
Move on.
Zip, no more, Finito.

#3177 MightyMoose

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 04:21

Posters,

As clearly mentioned in the RC rules, we'd like you to remain on topic. Therefore several posts have already been removed from the thread with additional edits being made to posts.

We regard this thread as an important one regarding the issues relating the the Bahrain GP and the unrest within that country. We would ask you to only discuss Bahrain and it's situation without referring, linking or comparing to other countries or regions.

Just to make clear, any post that veers off topic or does not comply to the thread title could not only be subject to moderative action, but also jeopardize a worthy thread remaining open.

This is a racing comments forum, please keep it that way.

Thank you.

#3178 Andy35

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 05:48

I presume that decision to cancel will be on safety grounds rather than as a protest to the current situation. I have to confess it would worry me if someone decided to walk onto the track to make the ultimate protest :(

I wonder what would happen if it goes ahead and then banners were unfurled throughout the grandstand etc? That would seem to be the best way of highlighting what is happening over there, to be be honest with Syria as it is and the West being friendly to the local authorities their Arab Spring seems to be still stuck in mid winter.

Andy

#3179 topical

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 06:39

If they want to protest they can protest elsewhere and leave us have our GP.

Sounds like a terrorist act, and if these people really are intent on causing harm and kidnapping drivers and or public then their cause gets no sympathy from me.


The attitude of some people here is unbelievable. Seems you'd be quite happy for the regime there to throw a few hundred protestors in jail or torture them to death if it just lets you have your 90 minutes of entertainment on a Sunday.
If the race goes ahead I think it will be a PR disaster for F1, confirming all the worst prejudices people have about it - totally out of touch with the modern world, indifferent to anything outside its own little bubble. For this reason alone it should be cancelled and I expect it will.

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#3180 Manneken3000

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 06:53

The attitude of some people here is unbelievable. Seems you'd be quite happy for the regime there to throw a few hundred protestors in jail or torture them to death if it just lets you have your 90 minutes of entertainment on a Sunday.If the race goes ahead I think it will be a PR disaster for F1, confirming all the worst prejudices people have about it - totally out of touch with the modern world, indifferent to anything outside its own little bubble. For this reason alone it should be cancelled and I expect it will.


I am sure that even if there is a GP or not, this will hapen, to get a race or not will not change much on the situation there.
I am against having a race there, cause it plain sux as a track, and better tracks should have the spot of the calender.
Now what ever happens is the country will happen, just like its happening elsewhere in the middle east.

#3181 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:04

The Bahraini officials are right. These overreactions are being drummed up by il-informed armchair observers.

This GP will not bow to terrorist organisations.

I applaud Bahrain for their stand.

#3182 jjcale

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:22

I read a quote somewhere earlier from someone in Bahrain suggesting Bernie could be the 'middle man' between the protest movement and the government. The world has gone bonkers.

Big decision for Jean Todt.. probably his biggest since he took over.


... but one that was entirely predictable... I would expect that he has a gameplan for this.

#3183 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:25

Id rather Bahrain lose their race, as they shouldnt have on because of no history and no attendance.

I never want to see Bahrain on the calender again.

Fact remains they have a GP and it must be held and not bow to extremists.

We dont need a month break between gp's this early in season.

#3184 jjcale

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:30

Id rather Bahrain lose their race, as they shouldnt have on because of no history and no attendance.

I never want to see Bahrain on the calender again.

Fact remains they have a GP and it must be held and not bow to extremists.

We dont need a month break between gp's this early in season.


I honestly thought your earlier post was meant to be sarcastic....

#3185 Iseriouslyhadenough

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:34

Id rather Bahrain lose their race, as they shouldnt have on because of no history and no attendance.

I never want to see Bahrain on the calender again.

Fact remains they have a GP and it must be held and not bow to extremists.

We dont need a month break between gp's this early in season.


I would also prefer to have 20 GPs over 19 GPs, however, the situation in Bahrain is bad, and it's not "some extremists" but rather a clear majority of the population (About 90% of the Shiite population (That means, everyone who isn't a baby or unable to walk), which is again more than 3/4 of Bahrains population, was on the road on several occasions, they're against the GP in it's current orientation, they want reforms, but all they get are live rounds and gas from the king of the Sunni Bahrainis (Around 100.000 people of the 500.000 or so Bahrainies - they're loyal to him as they get all the milk, to speak so..)

And it was Bernies rather dumb timetable, that made this big hole in the calendar appear, Bahrain or not.

It would have been perfectly normal to run Australia-Malaysia-China-Bahrain with 1 no-race-weekend break in between each and every of them (So the F1 employees could have relaxed in Asia or fly home for a week each, rather than back-to-back races and then a 2 weeks break in between the Asian races, then a long break before Europe)

#3186 jamiegc

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:43

The most (un)surprising element is that the people who are demanding the race must go ahead, are doing so because they cannot live for four weeks without some cars going around in circles.

#3187 Manneken3000

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:57

As this is going on, I feel more and more, that Bahrain are pushing to have this GP on, to show they can. Not for the love of the sport or F1, but to show a political stand. The ones who want it "VS" the ones who don't.
So I feel there should not be any more GP in Bahrain.

#3188 TheBunk

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:04

As this is going on, I feel more and more, that Bahrain are pushing to have this GP on, to show they can. Not for the love of the sport or F1, but to show a political stand. The ones who want it "VS" the ones who don't.
So I feel there should not be any more GP in Bahrain.


I agree. Unless there comes more political freedom, especially for the Shia majority of the population, F1 should not be racing in this repressive kingdom. I wonder if La Clinton will fight as vigorously for that in Bahrain as she does for Syria. Oh, wait...



#3189 Red17

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:19

The most (un)surprising element is that the people who are demanding the race must go ahead, are doing so because they cannot live for four weeks without some cars going around in circles.

Sad, but so very true.

No one has been able to present facts to back the «everything is fine, it's just a couple thugs» version.

In the meantime FOTA has thrown the ball to FIA's court, which in my interpretation is a message that they dont want to race there. Lot... sorry, the-secret-team-that-went-there, probably also changed their stance because of the Sakir Chairman's quotes. So that's a 11-1.
FIA would do a good thing not only to cancel this GP, but also to cancel the WEC round and give a huge reprimmand to Bahrain for using FIA events as a political tool.

#3190 Ellios

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:20

Last year there was the same indecision, moving of goal posts, squabbling over who is responsible for cancelling the race. BE has come out and said he can't force teams to go....no pressure being applied by Bernie then? Think he's pushing it as far as he can

but this is and only can be a decision by the FIA, it is their championship series and teams sign up to compete in it - so only they can decide if a race can be cancelled from their championship

last year by their own admission they didn't get it right, so you would expect they would have got it right this year? How does this look on Jean Todt CV? not very good really....

most likely is they will continue to dilly-dally around and eventually postpone the race until a later date in the year.... which will be forgotten about as the season progresses and slip out of schedule as not being achievable as time slots are already filled

mods doing great job restricting this to Bahrain only thank you :up:

#3191 TheBunk

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:21

Sad, but so very true.

No one has been able to present facts to back the «everything is fine, it's just a couple thugs» version.

In the meantime FOTA has thrown the ball to FIA's court, which in my interpretation is a message that they dont want to race there. Lot... sorry, the-secret-team-that-went-there, probably also changed their stance because of the Sakir Chairman's quotes. So that's a 11-1.
FIA would do a good thing not only to cancel this GP, but also to cancel the WEC round and give a huge reprimmand to Bahrain for using FIA events as a political tool.



Word! :up:

#3192 rajs41

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:39

Security should not be an issue if the Bahrain Grand Prix goes ahead
http://www.telegraph...goes-ahead.html

#3193 wj_gibson

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:49

The calendar is so crowded that I fail to see how the event can realistically be re-scheduled without the season tipping over into December, as almost happened a year ago.

So if it is cancelled (as it certainly ought to be) then that's really 19 races for 2012, not 20.

I don't see the point of having 2 races in the Gulf anyway. Surely Abu Dhabi ought to suffice.

#3194 Pendejo

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:30

Just saw this on the BBC:

F1 teams expect Bahrain Grand Prix to be called off

A number of Formula 1 teams expect the Bahrain Grand Prix to be called off amid security concerns caused by civil unrest, BBC Sport has learned. F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone said on Tuesday that no teams had expressed concerns to him, but suggested the race's contract may not be renewed. A statement released earlier from the Formula One Teams Association said it was down to the FIA to cancel the race. The teams are due to meet Ecclestone in China over the coming days. Violence between protesters and security forces erupted again on Bahrain's streets earlier this year after unrest during the 2011 Arab Spring led to last year's Bahrain GP being cancelled. Bahrain's majority Shia population have been demanding democratic reforms from the country's Sunni rulers, and the government tried to quell their protests. More follows.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/17676140

#3195 Jamiednm

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:34

Just saw this on the BBC:

F1 teams expect Bahrain Grand Prix to be called off

A number of Formula 1 teams expect the Bahrain Grand Prix to be called off amid security concerns caused by civil unrest, BBC Sport has learned. F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone said on Tuesday that no teams had expressed concerns to him, but suggested the race's contract may not be renewed. A statement released earlier from the Formula One Teams Association said it was down to the FIA to cancel the race. The teams are due to meet Ecclestone in China over the coming days. Violence between protesters and security forces erupted again on Bahrain's streets earlier this year after unrest during the 2011 Arab Spring led to last year's Bahrain GP being cancelled. Bahrain's majority Shia population have been demanding democratic reforms from the country's Sunni rulers, and the government tried to quell their protests. More follows.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/17676140


I just saw that too, but there isn't actually any new news - they were reporting the same thing yesterday but have now put in a different headline and called it breaking news?!

Edited by Jamiednm, 11 April 2012 - 09:34.


#3196 Red17

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:38

F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone said on Tuesday that no teams had expressed concerns to him, but suggested the race's contract may not be renewed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/17676140

I guess even Bernie can get tired from soap operas. And it's not really the best track in the world.

#3197 jamiegc

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:40

The calendar is so crowded that I fail to see how the event can realistically be re-scheduled without the season tipping over into December, as almost happened a year ago.

So if it is cancelled (as it certainly ought to be) then that's really 19 races for 2012, not 20.

I don't see the point of having 2 races in the Gulf anyway. Surely Abu Dhabi ought to suffice.


It could quite easily be held 11th November. Flights from the gulf to America are readily available and the teams could easily be in America on the Monday morning.

#3198 engel

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:44

I guess even Bernie can get tired from soap operas. And it's not really the best track in the world.


or Bernie is just being Bernie, taking advantage of the uncertainty to squeeze more money out of them for future races

#3199 Ali_G

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:44

I'll take a cancelled GP over having to endure Bahrain circuit again in the future. Surely another cancelled race will be curtains for it.

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#3200 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:51

It could quite easily be held 11th November. Flights from the gulf to America are readily available and the teams could easily be in America on the Monday morning.


Ending the season with 5 races on 5 consecutive weekends covering............what would it be, 3 continents I think (without looking at the calendar). There's absolutely no way I see the teams agreeing to that.