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Opinions on conditions of Vettel at Ferrari?


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#1 2ms

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 17:30

Vettel has been having the nerve to talk about liking to drive at Ferrari already after only his 2nd year at Red Bull and despite Red Bull possibly giving him the best car on the grid.

Meanwhile, last year Ferrari put forth the greatest effort and investment (time but also possibly other resources too) in any car of theirs in recent history but were not able to win the WDC.

What if their first driver is not able to get the job done again this year? Do Ferrari go and risk being losers again for the 5th year in a row by retaining Alonso in 2012? Particularly if they aren't even runners up with Hamilton or someone bumping them down further in the order this year.

Vettel seems to be willing to move to Ferrari. Ferrari has a tradition of firing people every year that they do not win the championship.

When I peak into Ferrari F150th thread I get the impression that it is common among Ferrari fans to be somewhat negative about Ferrari's chances this year with many considering Red Bull/Vettel the odds-on favorite to win the WDC again this year. So I have to ask, what are people's opinions of when Ferrari's current first driver will be replaced by someone like Vettel if they continue to not be able to prevail this year?

Edited by 2ms, 17 February 2011 - 17:32.


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#2 JPW

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 17:37

So I have to ask, what are people's opinions of when Ferrari's current first driver will be replaced by someone like Vettel if they continue to not be able to prevail this year?

Won't happen, next! :wave:

#3 showtime

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 17:39

What if their first driver is not able to get the job done again this year? Do Ferrari go and risk being losers again for the 5th year in a row by retaining Alonso in 2012?


And I stopped just there...

#4 mybikeisfasterthanyou

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 17:43

He did mention that is in the future, not soon. And journalists kept asking him so he is being polite answering them. He should stop that.

Like I mentioned before it is like being married to a wonderful lady that does everything for you (RBR) whom you also have a beautiful child with (championship) and once a while you tell to her face you would love to sleep with the neighbor's wife (Ferrari) and have her child too (Ferrari title).



#5 That1994AlfaWasSoFast

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 17:43

I dont think Alonso will EVER stand for having a competitive team mate again. He HAS to be No1. Cant handle anything less

#6 undersquare

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 17:48

Ferrari and Fernando are an item for the next 5 years at least. And they suit each other perfectly, so they're going to sink or swim together.

Likewise Lewis at McLaren.

Merc and Renault don't have the funding.

So Sebi's going nowhere for the foreseeable future. Pity as it would be interesting to see him in a car that isn't as easy to drive as the RB's.

#7 F1ultimate

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 17:50

I dont think Alonso will EVER stand for having a competitive team mate again. He HAS to be No1. Cant handle anything less


That's what I've said in the past. As long at Alonso is at Ferrari, Vettel will remain with Red Bull. Alonso is content with being able to use Massa as a foot stool and wouldn't accept accept sharing the throne at Ferrari with Vettel, Hamilton, Rosberg or who ever is his potential successor.

#8 Maranello99

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 17:54

The only driver whom Vettel could replace in Ferrari is Massa.

BTW, 2ms, your cheap digs at Alonso are not even pathetic, they are just enjoyably laughable....I suggest you to check how your boy fared with was better cars than Alonso, especially the 2008 was morethan great :p

Edited by Maranello99, 17 February 2011 - 17:58.


#9 Gigantor

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 17:59

The only driver whom Vettel could replace in Ferrari is Massa.



And why would he leave the best F1 team to join a team that has not won the WDC 3years?

#10 Atreiu

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 18:00

Vettel can say whatever he wants and I'm sure he wouldn't mind throwing some words around to stir the press and rattle Ferrari.
Win-win.

#11 fabr68

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 18:01

Vettel has been having the nerve to talk about liking to drive at Ferrari already after only his 2nd year at Red Bull and despite Red Bull possibly giving him the best car on the grid.

Meanwhile, last year Ferrari put forth the greatest effort and investment (time but also possibly other resources too) in any car of theirs in recent history but were not able to win the WDC.

What if their first driver is not able to get the job done again this year? Do Ferrari go and risk being losers again for the 5th year in a row by retaining Alonso in 2012? Particularly if they aren't even runners up with Hamilton or someone bumping them down further in the order this year.

Vettel seems to be willing to move to Ferrari. Ferrari has a tradition of firing people every year that they do not win the championship.

When I peak into Ferrari F150th thread I get the impression that it is common among Ferrari fans to be somewhat negative about Ferrari's chances this year with many considering Red Bull/Vettel the odds-on favorite to win the WDC again this year. So I have to ask, what are people's opinions of when Ferrari's current first driver will be replaced by someone like Vettel if they continue to not be able to prevail this year?


Alonso in the RB6 would have murdered Vettel in the F10 by mid Summer.

#12 Maranello99

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 18:02

And why would he leave the best F1 team to join a team that has not won the WDC 3years?

He wouldn't. My point was that Vettel won't be replacing Alonso.

#13 Maranello99

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 18:04

Alonso in the RB6 would have murdered Vettel in the F10 by mid Summer.

:up:
Most probably you are right. Alonso made mistakes but also did wonders last year.

#14 Johnrambo

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 18:08

Alonso made mistakes but also did wonders last year.


Like not being able to pass 2s lap slower cars when WDC was at stake. :)

#15 Maranello99

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 18:10

Like not being able to pass 2s lap slower cars when WDC was at stake. :)

How many passes have you seen in Abu Dhabi?
How many passes have you seen where the overtaken car had higher top speed as Renault did?

#16 puxanando

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 18:12

Alonso in the RB6 would have murdered Vettel in the F10 by mid Summer.

:up: :up: no more to add

Vettel is changing his opinion each day. Today he is saying that there are no reason to lever red Bull....... :stoned:

#17 macstar

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 18:13

Alonso in the RB6 would have murdered Vettel in the F10 by mid Summer.



thats a legend. i believe that alonso in redbull would have first of all have had very big problems again with his ego.. uhm sorry with the equality of the team philosophy.
lets not forget. he was pretty lucky that his teammate was demotvated after hockenheim and that mclaren shot themselves in the leg with the ebd.

seeing it from a neutral point of view: would vettel have enjoined an as reliable car as alonso did, he would have won the wdc with 3 races or so to go.

#18 apoka

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 18:14

I like Vettel. I'd like Vettel to drive for Ferrari at some point. But first and foremost, I'd like to see races again. The offseason doesn't exactly help to create interesting discussions on this board.

#19 Sausage

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 18:17

LDM is pretty much ecstatic about having Alonso, so yeah unless Fred accepts Vettel as a teammate, don't see it happening soon. Vettel is still in childhood anyway, I mean of his career :p :lol:

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#20 BRG

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 18:19

Please, please, can Vettel join Ferrari for this season? If there were ever two drivers who deserved each other as team mates, it is Vettel and Alonso. I'd definitely pay to see that circus!

#21 CF22

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 18:22

Like not being able to pass 2s lap slower cars when WDC was at stake. :)


I'm sure you know why that was, hence the adjustable rear wings this year.

IMO, Massa's successor will appear at Ferrari in 2012. I'm hopping Massa does well this year but Ferrari can't gamble on another year like 2010 and the team is smart. Hamilton will never go to Ferrari, he's McLaren's boy and Vettel might be the same to RB but he knows there is no deal at winning with RB vs. winning with Ferrari or Mclaren. I always thought Kubica would go to Ferrari in 2012 but the accident might have put an end to that, now the ones who might be up to the job are Vettel or even Rosberg in my opinion regardless of what Alonso thinks.

As some driver(s) have said, the goals in F1 are as follows:

Getting Pole, winning a race, winning the championship and finally winning the championship with Ferrari.

#22 2ms

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 18:28

Won't happen, next! :wave:


Schumacher was replaced after only 2 years of not winning, despite all their WDCs together. Many perceived scapegoat element in this rather than just purely that Ferrari was 100% confident Raikkonen was better driver than Schumacher.

Raikkonen was replaced after only 2 years of not winning, despite WDC together. Many perceived scapegoat element in this rather than just purely that Ferrari were 100% confident that driver to blame (particularly with it public that F60 had been so poor that they'd abandoned development mid-season).

Now if Vettel or Hamilton or anyone else win again, Alonso could be in position where 2 years of not winning and hasn't even won WDC like his two predecessors had. Meantime, hotshot young WDC is openly stating (maybe not every day but certainly on several occasions) that he would be open to Alonso's seat at Ferrari.

Is there something different about Ferrari now? Why would results be any different this time vs last time? From strictly objective standpoint, having not won WDC yet, Alonso would technically be in weaker position than his two predecessors.

Edited by 2ms, 17 February 2011 - 18:30.


#23 DILLIGAF

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 18:33

I've a feeling this thread will keep the mods busy. :lol:

For what it's worth i think Seb will be staying at RBR for as long as they produce a car capable of winning races. He's only 23yo so has at least a decade of F1 ahead of him. I have no doubt that he'll race for Ferrari sometime down the track but not in the near future.

Edited by DILLIGAF, 17 February 2011 - 18:37.


#24 Maranello99

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 18:36

2ms, Raikkonen was replaced because he did nothing with by far the best car in 2008 and trailed his teammate 10:22 in 2009.
With such results, he would be fired from any team.

Vettel would be good for Ferrari but not necessary at the moment.

Edited by Maranello99, 17 February 2011 - 18:56.


#25 2ms

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 18:56

So I take it you think Alonso is going to get different treatment from Schumacher and Raikkonen. In other words, he will be given more chances to win. But why? Sandtander? Domenicali? What is the reason? Why would they pass someone like Vettel up if he was available?

#26 FNG

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 19:09

Why would Ferrari want Vettel?

#27 GlenP

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 19:18

Lovely soft-trolling question. Daft and amusing.

Ferrari already have the best driver in F1.

#28 Scudetto

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 19:19

Schumacher was replaced after only 2 years of not winning, despite all their WDCs together. Many perceived scapegoat element in this rather than just purely that Ferrari was 100% confident Raikkonen was better driver than Schumacher.


By your artificial standard, Schumacher should have been fired by Ferrari way back in 1998.


#29 7timesbetterthantherest

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 19:20

If Schumacher kept his mouth shut in 1996 , well Jean Todt would have been fired mid-season !

Ferrari F1 team is run not by the management , but by the Italian people and the Italian Press ...

Todt's head was on the line in 1996 , then Schumacher comes out saying this : ''If you want to destroy Ferrari , this is the way to do it ''

2ms is 100% right , Alonso ain't no different to other Ferrari drivers ....

Hey, If they had the balls to give MICHAEL SCHUMACHER an ultimatum in 2006 , what makes you people believe that Alonso's seat will never be in jeapordy if he does'nt bring them titles?? LOL

I hate Ferrari nowadays - I loved them during the Todt-Schumacher era , but now I can't stand their arrogannt cheating ways ....

Edited by 7timesbetterthantherest, 17 February 2011 - 19:24.


#30 Skinnyguy

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 19:20

I don´t think Vettel should make that move. He´s in the best shape team in recent years, and it looks like it´s going to keep like this for some time.

Not always Ferrari is the best option, now he can have a poor season start and still be allowed to fight back if he can, and where he is he´s not exposed to knee-jerk reactions from LdM and Italian press/fans after 2 bad races.

I hate Ferrari atmosphere, it used to inspire confidence and guarantee stability, now... :down:

#31 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 19:21

Ferrari has a tradition of firing people every year that they do not win the championship.


Explain Luca Badoer.

Vettel would be insane to move to Ferrari.

#32 Figure8

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 19:22

Criminal lack of understanding of the sport on display here.

#33 fabr68

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 19:25

Lovely soft-trolling question. Daft and amusing.

Ferrari already have the best driver in F1.

+1

#34 BigCHrome

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 19:31

Why would Ferrari want Vettel?


Because in a years time he would be superior than Alonso in every way imaginable?



#35 KateLM

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 19:33

Please, please, can Vettel join Ferrari for this season? If there were ever two drivers who deserved each other as team mates, it is Vettel and Alonso. I'd definitely pay to see that circus!

There would be some epic podium sulking when one got beaten by the other :lol:

#36 TooTroublesome

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 19:48

If Vettel wins WDC again, its not just about needing Vettel because he's good, its more taking him away from Red Bull. If they put Buemi or Algersauri in his place alongside a Webber who is getting old, then Red Bulls line up is weakening and the driver differnce will actually make a difference even if the car is 2-3 tenths quicker all season!

#37 Afterburner

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 19:57

He did mention that is in the future, not soon. And journalists kept asking him so he is being polite answering them. He should stop that.

Like I mentioned before it is like being married to a wonderful lady that does everything for you (RBR) whom you also have a beautiful child with (championship) and once a while you tell to her face you would love to sleep with the neighbor's wife (Ferrari) and have her child too (Ferrari title).

I see absolutely nothing wrong with Vettel being honest to the media. He's open about his aspirations and he's happy to tell people about them--it's a sign of self-confidence and strong character. Though the team may not like it, Vettel is not under contract to always say nice things about RBR in the media. He can say whatever he wants about them, and whatever he wants about himself and his future. Both he and RBR probably realise that they won't be together for the entirety of their time in Formula One.

Your analogy is way off base, in my opinion, because personal matters and business matters are completely different. Regardless of how well you're treated by a company, comparing a company to your wife would probably imply that your job is your life. I don't think that's the case with Vettel and RBR at all. I'm sure Vettel enjoys his time there, but they aren't Ferrari, and RBR knows that. The most they can do is offer him a dominant car year after year to keep him from leaving.

I dont think Alonso will EVER stand for having a competitive team mate again. He HAS to be No1. Cant handle anything less

Ditto. Every time he's been challenged or beaten by his teammate he usually doesn't have nice things to say about the affair (e.g. "What more do I have to do?" "This is ridiculous!", and his personal act of revenge in Hungary '07).

Is there something different about Ferrari now? Why would results be any different this time vs last time? From strictly objective standpoint, having not won WDC yet, Alonso would technically be in weaker position than his two predecessors.

Speculatively, the trend will be different because Alonso's made of teflon--Ferrari will probably blame the fact that the car isn't up to snuff even if they give him the best car on the grid and he still manages to lose the title.

Realisitcally, if Fernando loses his seat to Vettel, it'd fit in with Ferrari's recent trend of putting everything in sight on the chopping block when they don't win a title. I think it'll take a few years before the Scuderia learns that they can only replicate the Schumacher years by maintaining a stable team. You have a much better chance of building success with the same people over a few years than you do by replacing people for their first failure.

It would be interesting to see the reaction from the Alonso camp if their driver got the boot for not living up to his proposed speed.

Edited by Afterburner, 17 February 2011 - 19:59.


#38 Maranello99

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 19:59

It would be interesting to see the reaction from the Alonso camp if their driver got the boot for not living up to his proposed speed.

He already lived up to it, let's hope he can continue.

#39 Afterburner

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 20:00

He already lived up to it, let's hope he can continue.

That's for Ferrari to decide. Their opinion of Alonso may be subject to change if they endure two or three more years without a championship.

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#40 Maranello99

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 20:02

That's for Ferrari to decide. Their opinion of Alonso may be subject to change if they endure two or three more years without a championship.

That's true, of course. But it's also up to them to provide a good enough car.

#41 That1994AlfaWasSoFast

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 20:03

I would love to see the team of Alonso and Vettel together, the tantrums and the empty prams and the faces like smacked arses!

#42 Sakae

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 20:04

Why would Ferrari want Vettel?


I think it was LDM who started discussion about this (potential) union with Vettel; not the other way around. Vettel is responding that it would be his honor to drive for such markee as Ferrari is. I am not sure where is all that rest coming from, but sounds to be like a lot of made-up or out of context stuff.

Edited by Sakae, 18 February 2011 - 12:24.


#43 Gigantor

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 20:05

Lovely soft-trolling question. Daft and amusing.

Ferrari already have the best driver in F1.



That's your opinion but Vettel is better in mine.

#44 Bonaventura

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 20:05

I would love to see the team of Alonso and Vettel together, the tantrums and the empty prams and the faces like smacked arses!

yes please, subito!
Would be great fun :)

#45 learningtobelost

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 20:10

If Vettel wins WDC again, its not just about needing Vettel because he's good, its more taking him away from Red Bull. If they put Buemi or Algersauri in his place alongside a Webber who is getting old, then Red Bulls line up is weakening and the driver differnce will actually make a difference even if the car is 2-3 tenths quicker all season!


Alguesauri/Buemi would not be taking up Vettel's vacant seat though. There are any number of much more capable drivers that would sell their own mothers to get into Seb's car. I think many still think that Vettel is at this stage still not a proven entity, there's no denying that he had one hell of a car last year, but I doubt that many on here see him as being irreplaceable.


#46 Afterburner

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 20:12

That's true, of course. But it's also up to them to provide a good enough car.

Judging from the Scuderia's recent track record, the car being slow won't be their fault. :drunk:

#47 Gigantor

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 20:22

I would love to see the team of Alonso and Vettel together, the tantrums and the empty prams and the faces like smacked arses!



Vettel never complains its Alonso that is the cry baby. Anyway in 3years after vettel has won 4 wdc he would move to ferrari and bring newey with just like schumi brought brawn to ferrari. Alonso would be banished to HRT :rotfl:

#48 Ramses1348

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 20:54

I think Alonso would completely destroy him, so he would be best to stay at redbul, and enjoy the faster car with a mediocre teamate

Edited by Ramses1348, 17 February 2011 - 20:54.


#49 bourbon

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 21:19

How many passes have you seen in Abu Dhabi?
How many passes have you seen where the overtaken car had higher top speed as Renault did?


Only Hamilton - but he didn't have a title on the line and Kubica had to pit eventually - so not worth the risk of crashing. Not so for Alonso. He had a WDC in the balance and the driver in front was the mistake prone rookie - and Alonso had nearly 40 laps to pass him. There is really no excuse - Alonso should have done a 'victory or destruction' move on Vitaly.

WATKINS: Kimi fans are desperate to see someone else fired besides their hero.


I don't want to see Alonso kicked out of Ferrari a year early like they did to Kimi - and I am fan of the latter for sure. I don't want to see other drivers treated like Barrichello in the past, or Massa last season - and I don't want to see hard working engineers like Chris Dyer - who have dedicated their life work to Ferrari - fired over a decision in 1 race (and that after he helped the team catch up and become a contender during the same season). Ferrari exemplifies the worst business practices in F1 from a PR standpoint, and they come off as arrogantly indifferent to their negative image in that regard. So I would not be among those to wish to see any more Ferrari casulties. I would like to see them change and behave in a respectable and sporting manner with their staff, drivers, crew, etc.

Edited by bourbon, 17 February 2011 - 21:29.


#50 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 21:19

Lovely soft-trolling question. Daft and amusing.

Ferrari already have the best driver in F1.

I think you just invented a new phrase: soft-trolling.

Gentle troll is gentle.