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PC Sim racing games too serious?


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#1 minardifans

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 00:42

I love racing games and I love F1 games. Currently I play F1 challenge (mostly modded) and rFactor.

Now I work full time. 40 hrs a week and have 3 kids so I don't have much time to play video games. Now imagine my dismay when I come to download a new mod for F1C or rFactor only to find that the Traction Control has been disabled. The reasons for this are clear. Traction control in F1 was not available in F1 in 2009, so they disable it in the mod for realism, the same for 1991LE. It is understandable that they want to have the same rules for everyone, but how are casual users of rFactor, who use the keyboard, supposed to play most of the mods if you can't even enable traction control?

I find it a right pain in the arse to have to dig out the wheel to play in the little time that I have to play these wonderful mods, but recently I've found some mods unplayable with the keyboard and that's not right. Is there a solution to this?

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#2 SPBHM

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 02:35

you could try a Xbox 360 gamepad...

#3 Raido

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 02:57

Traction Control has been disabled. The reasons for this are clear. Traction control in F1 was not available in F1 in 2009, so they disable it in the mod for realism, the same for 1991LE. It is understandable that they want to have the same rules for everyone, but how are casual users of rFactor, who use the keyboard, supposed to play most of the mods if you can't even enable traction control?


Hm. If you use a keyboard, it's no wonder you're in trouble. I started out that way and unless you're a hardcore alien who is able to crank out super laps every time, enabling you to be fast (after 10.000 laps) even with a keyboard, you're not going to get much fun out of a racing sim that way.

Best solution imho would be: get a usb gamepad and use the analog thumbsticks. I use that for more casual gaming than hardcore sims like GPL. It's not ideal, but heaps better than a keyboard. Advantage over a wheel: you can just put it aside when ready and get back to work (a wheel usually takes up yer desk or is a pain to mount/diskmount).

Second advise: don't use high-horsepower mods like F1 or CART. These need some serious precise controlled input and only a wheel can really give you that (again, unless you're some kind of alien..). Get some nice realistic lower-powered cars, up to say 200 BHP, (Caterhams, Formula Ford, Vee, Spec Miata, Suzuki Swift Cup etc) - those are much more controllable with a gamepad. If you do want to stick to F1, get a gamepad at the very least no matter what. Otherwise it's just going to be one excercise in frustration.

Thirdly: I wholly agree with them about conforming to realism. If the real thing didn't have traction control, then neither should the mod, if you're playing a sim at least. For easy driving, there's already arcade games. (As to sims, well being the old GPL driver I naturally think wings, traction control, 'grip' and 'downforce' are for wussies...;) )

Edited by Raido, 19 February 2011 - 03:00.


#4 MaxScelerate

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 15:41

Didn't stop Kaemmer from putting Traction Help and Braking Help in GPL, did it? ;)

I agree with the recommendations for gamepad, though. A stick for steering, a stick for gas/brake, shoulders for shifting. That's how I started playing GPL back in 2001...


#5 100cc

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 16:46

I find it a right pain in the arse to have to dig out the wheel to play in the little time that I have.

Is there a solution to this?

Keep the wheel closer to your pc so it only takes 1-2 minutes to set up. Surely the games are much more enjoyable with a wheel and worth a few minutes to dig out the wheel? And since you already have one I'd say use it.

#6 A3

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 17:58

The modding community is not a commercial company, they are people that put in an amazing amount of work creating something free of charge. In the modding community it's all about authenticity.

So:

but recently I've found some mods unplayable with the keyboard and that's not right

You're wrong. It is right.

What's not right is that you're too lazy to get your wheel out. You don't drive your car with a keyboard do you?

And lastly, you're talking about user created mods, why is your thread title about "PC Sim racing games"?

Edited by A3, 19 February 2011 - 17:59.


#7 BRK

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:01

I only use the keyboard and can drive on low TC easily: but driving competitively with no TC at all would be a problem,though.


However you do realize you could just mod TC in,with a bit of effort? Just head to (your rFactor root directory)\GameData\Vehicles\(mod), find the .hdv file of the vehicle you're using,and change the TC values.

As an example for the 1991 Mod: rFactor\GameData\Vehicles\F1SR\F1_1991\Historic_Edition\Brabham BT60Y\

Open up the HDV file with notepad,and find these lines:

TractionControlGrip=(1.00, 0.00)
TractionControlLevel=(0.35, 0.95)


The 0.35 and 0.95 figures are the grip multipliers for low and high TC,change the numbers to whatever you want above 0 so TC is active.

Obviously this is only for offline racing,there's unfortunately no way of racing with a modded file online. Apologies if everyone already knows,I'll just let it remain in case someone is interested in modding.

#8 Chezrome

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 09:35


I have no gripes with modders unabling the traction controll stuff. I've stuck an Xbox controller in my computer, and it can stay there, I don't have to buy a wheel and get it up and off my desk.

However.

I find some mods in rFactor much too serious in that sense, that the default setup is either a. much too slow compared to the AI-cars. b. much too hard.

I am about as old as the threadstarter, I have work, a study, a family, and I am writing a book. When I want to race, I want to race. I am just way too busy in many mods finding a basis setup.

So even for keyboard my suggestion for modders would be: include in the mod some basic setups, for wheels, gamepads and keyboards.




#9 A3

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 09:44

Again, it's their work, you don't have to pay for it. If you don't like it, get another game.

#10 BenettonB192

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 12:41

If you want a quick racing fix with your keyboard play Trackmania.

Sim racing IS time consuming. If you don't have the time don't blame the makers.

#11 Mat

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 12:56

If you want a quick racing fix with your keyboard play Trackmania.

Sim racing IS time consuming. If you don't have the time don't blame the makers.


Spot on. If your just after a qiuck racing fix, then get a console.

Otherwise get yourself a copy of Grand Prix 4. It's old, but has great keyboard assist!

#12 AlabamaTommy

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 15:15

I find most sims very hard, but at the same time like their realism.
I wish each car and track had proper set ups as well, like how Button and Hamo run diff set ups at Monza, cause I haven't got a clue how to set up sims.
F1 2010 have a good system.

#13 Paolo

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 11:43

you could try a Xbox 360 gamepad...


I found that a gamepad is a decent choice for F1 Challenge (modded 1974 season, no traction control , zero assistance) and even Grand Prix Legends.

It's not as good as a wheel-pedals combo, but for a quick game is more than ok, and it gets installed in seconds. Can even travel with it.

Mind, not all gamepads are alike: I have a logitech and a spare unit (can't remember the maker) , and the logitech is a lot better.



About keyboard sims: I have Sprint Car Challenge by Oxygen Interactive permanently installed on my computer.

While sub standard in every possible meaning (had it for 2 euros), it is still fun (dirt track racing) , takes minutes to play and keyboard is the only option.

Edited by Paolo, 22 February 2011 - 11:46.


#14 Chezrome

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 08:12


Adding suggestion: I have found that the GP79 mod for rFactor has a very driveable default setup. So it is possible for mods to be directly enjoyable. Furthermore there is a very good manual 'delivered' with this mod.

So for keyboardplayers: check out the mod!

#15 Requiem84

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 11:56

I love racing games and I love F1 games. Currently I play F1 challenge (mostly modded) and rFactor.

Now I work full time. 40 hrs a week and have 3 kids so I don't have much time to play video games. Now imagine my dismay when I come to download a new mod for F1C or rFactor only to find that the Traction Control has been disabled. The reasons for this are clear. Traction control in F1 was not available in F1 in 2009, so they disable it in the mod for realism, the same for 1991LE. It is understandable that they want to have the same rules for everyone, but how are casual users of rFactor, who use the keyboard, supposed to play most of the mods if you can't even enable traction control?

I find it a right pain in the arse to have to dig out the wheel to play in the little time that I have to play these wonderful mods, but recently I've found some mods unplayable with the keyboard and that's not right. Is there a solution to this?


Do you play a game for some trashing around? Or do you play it because you want realism? There are completely different approaches in the racegames we have at our disposal. You could try NFS Shift for instance ;).

I can only a game if I have the feeling it is close to reality. I can never afford to drive an F1 car, the closest I can get however is racing iRacing's FW31, or FVA. The more realistic, the better for me. You do want a challenge don't you :).

#16 Chezrome

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 12:39

Do you play a game for some trashing around? Or do you play it because you want realism? There are completely different approaches in the racegames we have at our disposal. You could try NFS Shift for instance ;).

I can only a game if I have the feeling it is close to reality. I can never afford to drive an F1 car, the closest I can get however is racing iRacing's FW31, or FVA. The more realistic, the better for me. You do want a challenge don't you :).


Thank you for this polite and friendly reply to the topic starter. I see way to may barking and leg off biting replies on the Racing Simulators recently.



#17 King Six

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 15:45

you could try a Xbox 360 gamepad...

Or a PS3 controller, even though Microsoft try to monopolise the PC gaming market by locking in most games to only work with the X360 controller, seeing as they essentially copied the PS2 controller design for their original Xbox controller (and conversly the PS3/X360 controller) you can easily emulate the PS3 controller to fool Windows into thinking that you're using the X360 controller.

Easy. :up:

#18 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 08 March 2011 - 18:54

Thank you for this polite and friendly reply to the topic starter. I see way to may barking and leg off biting replies on the Racing Simulators recently.


Racing Sim hardcore types are snobs. GPL is the worst for this. If you actually go to some of the "elite" races, half the field spins off within 5 laps.

Keyboards are like replacing a gas pedal with an on/off switch.

You're better off with a console game, but there aren't any real historic racing console games.

#19 Raido

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Posted 08 March 2011 - 20:50

Racing Sim hardcore types are snobs. GPL is the worst for this. If you actually go to some of the "elite" races, half the field spins off within 5 laps.


Well, of course. It's a sim, and approximating reality, you wouldn't expect half of us *not* to spin off within a few laps if you put us amateur drivers in a 1967 F1 car, would you? :smoking:

Yeah, it takes half a year to learn to drive at speed but that wouldn't be any different from a real racing car either... And yes, once you do, you do tend to laugh at types wo pop up thinking that after doing NFS and bashing along every wall, they're Real Driving Gods. (I've been in some GTurismo arcade forums and a lot of 'racers' genuinely think that's the way to drive a virtual car fast. Kind of the opposite of GPL types...)

You're better off with a console game, but there aren't any real historic racing console games.


Well, unless you discount Spirit of Speed... ;)

Regards, Rudy
(GPLRank: -40)

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#20 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 16:49

Well, unless you discount Spirit of Speed...;)

Regards, Rudy
(GPLRank: -40)


Everyone discounts Spirit of Speed.

#21 minardifans

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 01:03

The modding community is not a commercial company, they are people that put in an amazing amount of work creating something free of charge. In the modding community it's all about authenticity.

So:

You're wrong. It is right.

What's not right is that you're too lazy to get your wheel out. You don't drive your car with a keyboard do you?

And lastly, you're talking about user created mods, why is your thread title about "PC Sim racing games"?



They do fantastic work I admit. But why take out the driver aids that make the game accessible to the wider audience it was meant to appeal to? The origional cars included in the game have driver aids.

I am not lazy, I find that highly insulting. I have limited space in my house. Both me and my wife work full time. 40hrs for me and 35hrs for her. We also have 3 kids to look after. After a hard days work and cooking after work it might be nice to just boot up a game like rFactor and drive a few laps of a historical F1 car that I enjoy because I am a fan of F1. I might have an hour or so of free time to do this, but no, I have to dig out the wheel, set it up etc etc. But oh no that makes me some kind of heretic because it's not completely true to real life god forbid! You do realize that using a wheel with an F1 simulator like rFactor is still very much far removed from what it is like to drive an F1 car.

I have actually dug out my 10 yr old Logitech Formula Force wheel recently and used it with rFactor. It meant removing all the drawers from my desk to give me space for the pedals and my legs. Not the tidiest of solutions...

#22 minardifans

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 01:05

If you want a quick racing fix with your keyboard play Trackmania.

Sim racing IS time consuming. If you don't have the time don't blame the makers.


I wasn't blaming the makers for making realistic mods (which they do), just questioned their need to remove driver aids completely.

They do fantastic work and I admire that.

#23 minardifans

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 01:11

Again, it's their work, you don't have to pay for it. If you don't like it, get another game.


Yes because there is a huge back catalogue of F1 games on the PC that are of high quality... :rolleyes:

#24 Raido

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 20:48

3 kids to look after. After a hard days work and cooking after work it might be nice to just boot up a game like rFactor and drive a few laps of a historical F1 car that I enjoy because I am a fan of F1. I might have an hour or so of free time to do this, but no, I have to dig out the wheel, set it up etc etc. But oh no that makes me some kind of heretic because it's not completely true to real life god forbid


You don't *have* to get out a wheel to drive rFactor, as noted above. You *can* drive some cars with just a USB gamepad tucked under your desk. That's exactly what I do, since my Mac is my work machine as well.

But this is still a sim and sims are meant to approximate reality. In real life, you wouldn't drive an F1 with a keyboard, and in a sim, you shouldn't expect to be able to handle it either. If you want convenience, go for Need for Speed. Or do what I do and go for lower-powered Formula cars, Caterhams and Spec Miatas.

(I tested the Vintage Formula Ford mod - 100 BHP - on several tracks to find out if the laptimes were generally consistent with real life times, and they were (56 sec per lap at Lime Rock, for instance). Then I took it to the Top Gear Test Track and noted how fast that car was in comparison to regular TG times. Guess what, a 1:23 - right smack in the middle of the 450+ BHP 4-wheel drive Lamborghini Gallardo's and Zonda's.
That's pretty darn quick. You don't always need a high horsepower F1 to go pretty fast.... And this kind of car - no wings no downforce no nothing - is driveable on gamepad thumbsticks with no driving aids, except optional auto shifting.)

But if the real car doesn't have driving assist, in a sim, the simulated car shouldn't have it either. That's exactly how it should be - outside of arcade games. And there's plenty of those.

Edited by Raido, 15 March 2011 - 20:56.


#25 minardifans

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 21:30

You don't *have* to get out a wheel to drive rFactor, as noted above. You *can* drive some cars with just a USB gamepad tucked under your desk. That's exactly what I do, since my Mac is my work machine as well.

But this is still a sim and sims are meant to approximate reality. In real life, you wouldn't drive an F1 with a keyboard, and in a sim, you shouldn't expect to be able to handle it either. If you want convenience, go for Need for Speed. Or do what I do and go for lower-powered Formula cars, Caterhams and Spec Miatas.

(I tested the Vintage Formula Ford mod - 100 BHP - on several tracks to find out if the laptimes were generally consistent with real life times, and they were (56 sec per lap at Lime Rock, for instance). Then I took it to the Top Gear Test Track and noted how fast that car was in comparison to regular TG times. Guess what, a 1:23 - right smack in the middle of the 450+ BHP 4-wheel drive Lamborghini Gallardo's and Zonda's.
That's pretty darn quick. You don't always need a high horsepower F1 to go pretty fast.... And this kind of car - no wings no downforce no nothing - is driveable on gamepad thumbsticks with no driving aids, except optional auto shifting.)

But if the real car doesn't have driving assist, in a sim, the simulated car shouldn't have it either. That's exactly how it should be - outside of arcade games. And there's plenty of those.


I wasn't having a go at the mod makers, they do fantastic work.

So did ISI in making rFactor. Now they provided keyboard support. I just didn't understand why certain mods made the effort to remove it completely. i.e. make it unavailable to people who do use the keyboard. It can still be a simulation game with a bit of traction control added.

Maybe It's because I grew up playing GP2 with a keyboard.  ;) But now I know how to add it by editing some text in a file I'll simply do that.

#26 Raido

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 20:35

who do use the keyboard. It can still be a simulation game with a bit of traction control added.


Well... Not really. You'd be using a sim in arcade mode, in a manner of speaking. After all, real F1 cars don't have keyboard support either ;)

But, as said, there are workarounds. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if in rF2 keyboard support would be removed altogether.


#27 minardifans

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 00:03

Well... Not really. You'd be using a sim in arcade mode, in a manner of speaking. After all, real F1 cars don't have keyboard support either ;)

But, as said, there are workarounds. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if in rF2 keyboard support would be removed altogether.


I bet you it won't be and I bet it will still be sold as a racing sim. And it's not 'Arcade Mode' it's 'Driver Aids'.

I see certain purists here can't seem to separate a sim form reality. Would you like the F1 sim to kill you if you have a big crash too just to make it 100% realistic?

People rave about Grand Prix Legends as the ultimate GP simulator for it's physics which also had driver aids (and unrealistic crash physics). iRacer has driver aids. rFactor comes with built in driver aids. Live for Speed comes with driver aids. I don't see why some people see it as the work of Satan that some people don't have the time to dedicate to playing a sim game so much, but wants something more realistic the arcade rubbish that is available.



#28 Mat

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 01:02

rFactor2 will still be highly moddable, so it will probably still have keyboard support. Good luck trying to use it as I have no idea how to control throttle or steering with an on/off switch.

Yes, people rave about GPL, and its driving physics, because it was fantastic for its time. It still is excellent. And most couldn't give a shit about unrealistic crash physics, that is the xbox generation interested in that. Most GPL fans couldn't give a flying &*$. iRacing has shitty crash physics too, but it is still the best out there IMO. Also, the only drive aids you can use are auto clutch and auto throttle blip. Keyboard will simply not work. Console controls are allowed.

You are the one who seems offended about people not recommending to use a keyboard, but really, how do yo u get any fun out of that? Driving is about being smooth and consistent, that is impossible with a keyboard. Most sim racers like to be semi-successful and make it a challenge. That is also possible with a keyboard.

As per my original response to this thread, if you are serious about staying with a keyboard, check out www.trackmania.com. Or find yourself a copy of GP2,3 or 4. These games were designed with keyboard players and the Crammond series does a great job of dumbing down the driving inputs so keyboard is possible.

Your other option is to get an xbox controller for PC. The analog controls make it a hell of a lot easier, and they are only ~$30, i use one for a baseball game on the PC. USB, plug and play and fits in the draw.

#29 minardifans

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 22:42

rFactor2 will still be highly moddable, so it will probably still have keyboard support. Good luck trying to use it as I have no idea how to control throttle or steering with an on/off switch.

Yes, people rave about GPL, and its driving physics, because it was fantastic for its time. It still is excellent. And most couldn't give a shit about unrealistic crash physics, that is the xbox generation interested in that. Most GPL fans couldn't give a flying &*$. iRacing has shitty crash physics too, but it is still the best out there IMO. Also, the only drive aids you can use are auto clutch and auto throttle blip. Keyboard will simply not work. Console controls are allowed.

You are the one who seems offended about people not recommending to use a keyboard, but really, how do yo u get any fun out of that? Driving is about being smooth and consistent, that is impossible with a keyboard. Most sim racers like to be semi-successful and make it a challenge. That is also possible with a keyboard.

As per my original response to this thread, if you are serious about staying with a keyboard, check out www.trackmania.com. Or find yourself a copy of GP2,3 or 4. These games were designed with keyboard players and the Crammond series does a great job of dumbing down the driving inputs so keyboard is possible.

Your other option is to get an xbox controller for PC. The analog controls make it a hell of a lot easier, and they are only ~$30, i use one for a baseball game on the PC. USB, plug and play and fits in the draw.


You can easily control the car with an on-off switch if you have traction control. Steering is easy enough, I play rFactor and F1C with a keyboard without steering help on. I find it's fine.

And I'm not offended by anyone recommending using a wheel at all. I do get offended when I get called 'lazy', wouldn't you? And I get a little miffed with people saying well 'you've got no choice'. The choice was there to begin with but it was removed. Someone mentioned the file that needed modding and I am very grateful for that. :)

I already have all the Crammond games going back to GP2 but I don't play them anymore. As I mentioned above I have simply edited the file mentioned that allows traction control in the rFactor mods so I can enjoy some of the mods that didn't allow it before. For longer sessions I do use the wheel, but now after a hard days work where I just want a quick blast for maybe 1/2 or so I can now just do it without having to get the wheel out and take all the draws out of my desk so I have room for my legs and pedals.;)

#30 Hairpin

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 04:23

A constant fight between the keyboard/gamepad camps :)
Personally I belong to the wheel camp and I think that it sucks if a simulator can be used with success with kb or gamepad. It's just not right because in real life it would be impossible and therefore it should be impossible in a simulator as well. In a less serious driving game it is of course ok to use a switch controller.

Edited by Hairpin, 18 March 2011 - 04:24.


#31 Raido

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 19:58

Well with rFactor you've got the luxury of having both, because it's essentially a customization kit for mods.

That's why there are kiddie mods (literally) and serious sim mods for the same program. Of course, as a consequence it's only a sim if you use it as such - enabling keyboard support for an F1 essentially dumbs it down and makes it arcade.
GPL never did that (it did have driver aids, but they automatically added 4 seconds to your laptime if enabled) and together with the merciless character of 60's wingless F1 (and a slightly underdeveloped tyre model) got it labeled 'hardcore'. In rFactor, you can take 'the lazy option' and take the easy way out - in GPL and its direct descendant iRacing you can't quite do that.
I still think that NFS or Mario Kart is a better and more fun option if you just want to play around - but to each his own.


#32 minardifans

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 22:23

Well with rFactor you've got the luxury of having both, because it's essentially a customization kit for mods.

That's why there are kiddie mods (literally) and serious sim mods for the same program. Of course, as a consequence it's only a sim if you use it as such - enabling keyboard support for an F1 essentially dumbs it down and makes it arcade.
GPL never did that (it did have driver aids, but they automatically added 4 seconds to your laptime if enabled) and together with the merciless character of 60's wingless F1 (and a slightly underdeveloped tyre model) got it labeled 'hardcore'. In rFactor, you can take 'the lazy option' and take the easy way out - in GPL and its direct descendant iRacing you can't quite do that.
I still think that NFS or Mario Kart is a better and more fun option if you just want to play around - but to each his own.


See what I mean about people being on their high horses? I wanted to play rFactor with the functions with which it was designed. I get told to play Mario Kart instead.

Because that's really the solution isn't it. Some people really need to climb off their soap boxes.

#33 MaxScelerate

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Posted 19 March 2011 - 14:23

A constant fight between the keyboard/gamepad camps :)
Personally I belong to the wheel camp and I think that it sucks if a simulator can be used with success with kb or gamepad. It's just not right because in real life it would be impossible and therefore it should be impossible in a simulator as well. In a less serious driving game it is of course ok to use a switch controller.

Jacques Villeneuve would not agree, though.. Far as I know, he and Jock Clear had started to work (for fun) on a joystick controller for the BARF 1 car but were told to forget it, so they just rigged karts instead. Villeneuve also left iRacing when he found out he couldn't set his gamepag/joystick the way he'd want to.

#34 Raido

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Posted 19 March 2011 - 21:37

See what I mean about people being on their high horses? I wanted to play rFactor with the functions with which it was designed. I get told to play Mario Kart instead.


I don't know what you were expecting. Solutions to your problem were offered in this thread. It's just a matter of choice. You like to play a sim like an arcade game (because it can). That's fine, but then you might just as well play an arcade game. There's nothing wrong with that if you just want to have fun. It's not for simracers, but maybe it's for you  ;)


#35 baddog

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Posted 19 March 2011 - 21:43

Lol @ people who think their wheel is an accurate simulator of the car in game.. Then get a better wheel and go a second a lap faster, and see no problem with that. Gosh guess they are just enhanced game controllers after all eh?

#36 minardifans

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 01:08

I don't know what you were expecting. Solutions to your problem were offered in this thread. It's just a matter of choice. You like to play a sim like an arcade game (because it can). That's fine, but then you might just as well play an arcade game. There's nothing wrong with that if you just want to have fun. It's not for simracers, but maybe it's for you ;)


No. It's not the same at all. Because they are not the same games. If I wanted to shoot tortoise shells across the track I'd play Mario Kart. I want to play F1 so I choose to do so. There is nothing wrong with me expecting to be able to do so with a game that comes with driver aids. I guess the real F1 drivers that drove in F1 during the days of traction control and ABS should have also not bothered with F1 at all and just played Mario Kart instead. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

#37 minardifans

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 01:10

Lol @ people who think their wheel is an accurate simulator of the car in game.. Then get a better wheel and go a second a lap faster, and see no problem with that. Gosh guess they are just enhanced game controllers after all eh?


Exactly, It's still a game controller, whether it's the keyboard, pad, wheel etc etc and none of them replicate a car with accuracy anywhere near the real thing.

#38 Requiem84

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 09:13

It's not reality, but it's closer to reality.

You use the same inputs real world drivers use with a steering wheel and pedals. With a keyboard you just have an on/off switch.

I remember playing GP2 without aids on keyboard (only steering aid maybe). To counter the loss of traction when accelerating I had to jab the 'A' key really fast to work as a manual traction control. Wow, how realistic was that ;).

The point with many people who play racing simulations is that they want realism, because we can never afford the real thing. A wheel brings you one step closer.

But if you enjoy your game with a keyboard, what's wrong with that? It's just not very realistic, but it doesn't mean you can't enjoy it.

The question for me is, what exactly is it what you are trying to prove here?

#39 A3

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 13:08

Lol @ people who think their wheel is an accurate simulator of the car in game.. Then get a better wheel and go a second a lap faster, and see no problem with that. Gosh guess they are just enhanced game controllers after all eh?



It's certainly heaps more accurate than a keyboard.
If I was a casual gamer I wouldn't be faster with a $300 G27 than with a $50 Momo Racing. I upgraded from a Momo Racing to a used G25 and indeed I became faster, but not with seconds. I don't see a problem with that because I understand why I'm faster with this wheel: Better force feedback, 900 degrees rotation vs 270 degrees and the biggest improvement for me came from the pedals.

and none of them replicate a car with accuracy anywhere near the real thing.



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#40 minardifans

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 23:07

It's certainly heaps more accurate than a keyboard.
If I was a casual gamer I wouldn't be faster with a $300 G27 than with a $50 Momo Racing. I upgraded from a Momo Racing to a used G25 and indeed I became faster, but not with seconds. I don't see a problem with that because I understand why I'm faster with this wheel: Better force feedback, 900 degrees rotation vs 270 degrees and the biggest improvement for me came from the pedals.



So you think that guy (who is rather overweight) could beat say Jackie Stewart at a race in any car at any given track. I don't think so. He wouldn't have the stamina or experience. Hence why it's just a sim. It's not real life. Get over it.

#41 MrFondue

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 01:25

So you think that guy (who is rather overweight) could beat say Jackie Stewart at a race in any car at any given track. I don't think so. He wouldn't have the stamina or experience. Hence why it's just a sim. It's not real life. Get over it.


Lucas Ordoñez did rather well at Sebring yesterday.

And there are highly realistic setups for sims

Posted Image

#42 A3

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 08:34

So you think that guy (who is rather overweight) could beat say Jackie Stewart at a race in any car at any given track. I don't think so. He wouldn't have the stamina or experience. Hence why it's just a sim. It's not real life. Get over it.


:lol: How did this thread go from whining about not being able to use a keyboard to "let's bash people with a wheel"?

I don't have to get over anything because I don't have a problem with anything. I like my sim racing as realistic as possible, unlike you. I linked to that video to show that a talented sim racer can be fast quickly in a real racing car. I assume you understand that he wouldn't be this quick if he never touched a computer and was put in this car. Remember that he doesn't have a driver's license.

I don't think Greger would beat Jackie Stewart (did I say that?). He doesn't have the physical abilities, no, but that's not the point.

#43 jee

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 10:03

Norbert Michelisz also made it from sim to real racing. He won the final race at WTCC's race at macao this season.

#44 Chezrome

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 15:26

Lucas Ordoñez did rather well at Sebring yesterday.

And there are highly realistic setups for sims

Posted Image


That is a kick behind setup. The projection on the canope is a very good idea, perhaps not even that expensive...




#45 Raido

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 21:00

Norbert Michelisz also made it from sim to real racing. He won the final race at WTCC's race at macao this season.


My guesstimate is that we'll see more and more talents from sim racing being 'spotted' and making a switch to real racing, probably even on invitation, as sims get closer to reality. (Heck, we're already seeing that now.)

When "we" simmers got started with Revs back in 1983 or so, there wasn't that much of a correlation between input and car behaviour, let alone realistic scenery. It was all very basic (although you could spin). Nowadays it's good enough as a training and 'talent-spotting' tool.
...Probably not when you're playing F1 mods with a keyboard, though...;)

@Minardifans: Don't diss Greger Huttu mate, unless you have a -93 GPLRank - he's been the greatest simracer alive since the ol' days of GPL and did very well, considering he basically had never driven a racing car before and had to get all his reflexes from 'only' driving a computer sim. That's quite the feat. (He also had the flu that day AND the pressure of 'Whatever You Do, Don't F*ck It Up', since he knew a lot of cameras and the whole simracing world were watching on him. He definitely could've gone faster.)
And if you want to drive F1 mods with training wheels on like you do, then do so and have fun, just don't be surprised that people will point out you're driving an F1 with training wheels ;)

Regards, Rudy
(GPLRank: -40)

Edited by Raido, 21 March 2011 - 21:22.


#46 MrFondue

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 00:45

That is a kick behind setup. The projection on the canope is a very good idea, perhaps not even that expensive...


Should be something around a grand

#47 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 22:07

I agree that sims are too serious now, but for a different reason. The serious sims demand you to be a race car engineer just to keep the car on the road at a respectable pace, and some of the cars have dozens and dozens of variables to change, most of them with a wide range of settings that all interact with each other. The real race teams employ hundreds of engineers with telemetry and supercomputers at their disposal; an adult with a day job, and without specialized education, can't quite compete with that.

Edited by Dmitriy_Guller, 26 March 2011 - 22:08.


#48 Slowinfastout

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 22:33

nah... in iRacing the fast guys are on the pace an hour or two after each car release..

With time, laptimes subsequently continue to go down, but the initial fast times set by the fast guys remain very competitive..

Frankly, a person just need to invest a weekend or so to understand basic setup principles, and put them to the test for the whole thing to sink in..

After that it's relatively easy to adapt to new tweaks, new cars, different approaches, etc..

IMO all that stuff is true for roadcourse racing.. I'll admit that ovals can get a little too time consuming to get competitive, because it's much more important to have a good setup to be successful..

Ovals feels more like work to me, but when it clicks it's great fun too

#49 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 27 March 2011 - 07:55

nah... in iRacing the fast guys are on the pace an hour or two after each car release..

With time, laptimes subsequently continue to go down, but the initial fast times set by the fast guys remain very competitive..

Frankly, a person just need to invest a weekend or so to understand basic setup principles, and put them to the test for the whole thing to sink in..

After that it's relatively easy to adapt to new tweaks, new cars, different approaches, etc..

IMO all that stuff is true for roadcourse racing.. I'll admit that ovals can get a little too time consuming to get competitive, because it's much more important to have a good setup to be successful..

Ovals feels more like work to me, but when it clicks it's great fun too

It also depends on a car. Dallara is infinitely harder to set up than a Skip Barber car, due to interaction between the wings, the ground clearance, and suspension settings.

#50 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 27 March 2011 - 13:36

The setup is important to achieve the very fastest times but the best driver with the base setup of any car will be within a few % of the best times. I remember Greger Huttu doing near WR times with the base setups in Grand Prix Legends just to prove to people that it wasn't his setups that made him fast.