22 replies to this topic

[Flat Black 84]

At what speed would midgets typically have topped out at in competition during the 30s, 40s, and 50s?

[Lee Nicolle]

Depends on the track and how good the engine was!

[DanTra2858]

Depends on the track and how good the engine was!

Then why not pick a venue such as the Sydney Showground & see what results that brings forth.

[lanciaman]

Geared for top end, 150MPH easily achieved. No guarantee for stability.

[Wilyman]

Geared for top end, 150MPH easily achieved. No guarantee for stability.

lanciaman,
150mph on a dirt oval? US fairground circuits mmmmmm?

For Aus, it would be necessary compute engine revs, gear ratio [diff ratio]. Tyre diameter. Throw in the length of the track. If it's the classic dirt quarter miler I'd say two thirds of your 150 mph would be good going.

[Lee Nicolle]

lanciaman,
150mph on a dirt oval? US fairground circuits mmmmmm?

For Aus, it would be necessary compute engine revs, gear ratio [diff ratio]. Tyre diameter. Throw in the length of the track. If it's the classic dirt quarter miler I'd say two thirds of your 150 mph would be good going.

For a 30s-50s midget half would be very good. My 70s Classic Supermodified/Sprintcar is about 85 mph @6500 rpm.And a small percentage of that is wheelspin. With modern tyres on a hooky modern track. And a slick track is about 10mph slower.
And those old cars would be struggling to go near as fast on dusty slick tracks with old skinny hard tyres yet alone get the engine RPM. Good late 50s midgets will ofcourse but not before that.

[Flat Black 84]

My guess is that the early midgets would have been hard-pressed to top 100 in competition. I'd really like to see a good source of information on this question, though. I know people clocked the speed of those cars, but I've just never seen anybody mention what their top speed was.

[D-Type]

For what it's worth, Rodger Ward's qualifying speed in the Kurtis midget at Sebring was an 84 mph average. And that was probably somewhat faster than a normal (US) midget.
Now, were Aussie midgets faster than US ones?

[Flat Black 84]

For what it's worth, Rodger Ward's qualifying speed in the Kurtis midget at Sebring was an 84 mph average. And that was probably somewhat faster than a normal (US) midget.

What year was that?

[David McKinney]

1959 (December)

[lanciaman]

Jimmy Caruthers told me his car could exceed 150, but that was (a) 1970 and (b) on pavement and © with very long gears, for which there was neither use or need. (He was testing a new car on IRP's oval and I asked. Nice fellow, gone too soon.)

[mercnut]

1959 (December)

look at results on my laps lismore speedway this w/end (aust title)best average laps before the track went away was 110 kph,with 400 hp & plenty of soft rubber,then think about the early cars with skinny tyres & about 150 hp, by the way if i remember correctly,the first laps turned at lakeside were by bob tattersall in an offy midget,the times must be recorded somewhere.

[legardP45]

You're probably looking at about 15mph. Not sure if midget is the best term to use though.

[mercnut]

Jimmy Caruthers told me his car could exceed 150, but that was (a) 1970 and (b) on pavement and © with very long gears, for which there was neither use or need. (He was testing a new car on IRP's oval and I asked. Nice fellow, gone too soon.)

just found this, bonneville salt flats,1949,rex mays offy midget,147 mph, gordon whitw,1988,offy midget,156 mph.would have had the q/change gears in upside down to get a tall enough ratio.

[johnny yuma]

A Fast time for the one-third mile Sydney Showground was 20 seconds,a 60mph average,in the circa 1970 heyday.Wild guess top speed on that track 80mph on a perfect track maybe ! In the forties quite a bit less you would have to say....
At the farewell in 1994 I timed a few at 22 second laps,54mph average.It surprised me in that it looked much faster !!

[Lee Nicolle]

If 94 vintage midgets were doing 22 sec laps I doubt that the old ones were doing 20 sec in the 50s. Modified maybe though they seldom ran there. And that was in the 70s.

I have seen footage from that finale and it looked oh so narrow though everybody seemd to be having a good go at it.

[Wilyman]

look at results on my laps lismore speedway this w/end (aust title)best average laps before the track went away was 110 kph,with 400 hp & plenty of soft rubber,then think about the early cars with skinny tyres & about 150 hp, by the way if i remember correctly,the first laps turned at lakeside were by bob tattersall in an offy midget,the times must be recorded somewhere.

'mercnut'
My friend who goes to the US frequently to follow the sprinters and midgets tells the story of his sprint car driver mate attempting a push start. No luck, the wheels were locking up something fierce. Later in the pits they found that he'd fitted the diff 'drop' gears upside down! Or as he put it. "The Fat Lady On Top".

Also, as he puts it. When a driver uses the excuse that the track has "gone away" he cynically remarks that the track wasn't there in the first place

I asked him about current midget speeds. For the Kwinana Motorplex track he reckoned about 85mph.

Edited by Wilyman, 25 February 2011 - 09:09.

[Lee Nicolle]

'mercnut'
My friend who goes to the US frequently to follow the sprinters and midgets tells the story of his sprint car driver mate attempting a push start. No luck, the wheels were locking up something fierce. Later in the pits they found that he'd fitted the diff 'drop' gears upside down! Or as he put it. "The Fat Lady On Top".

Also, as he puts it. When a driver uses the excuse that the track has "gone away" he cynically remarks that the track wasn't there in the first place

I asked him about current midget speeds. He reckoned for the Kwinana Motorplex track he reckoned about 85mph.

Put the drop gears in arse up and the engine doesnt turn fast enough to start. Has been done quite a few times by the inexperienced.

[john medley]

The car that Malcolm Church ran at Bendigo Historic Speedway 1990 was, I am led to believe, a Barry Butterworth car . It had a plaque on the instrument panel claiming " world's fastest midget" at if I recall correctly 169 mph ( in the USA)
One mile tar, perhaps?

[mercnut]

Put the drop gears in arse up and the engine doesnt turn fast enough to start. Has been done quite a few times by the inexperienced.

ummm,i've done it,after a full rebuild,first day at the new archerfield track,car would start but wouldn't pull,"what's bloody wrong now?"took it home,figured it out the next day,used to drink XXXX when playing with it !!!! (at home).another one for the book of mistakes !!!.

[Lee Nicolle]

The car that Malcolm Church ran at Bendigo Historic Speedway 1990 was, I am led to believe, a Barry Butterworth car . It had a plaque on the instrument panel claiming " world's fastest midget" at if I recall correctly 169 mph ( in the USA)
One mile tar, perhaps?

169mph in that car would be frightening. I suspect the only way it would go that fast is at Bonneville or similar.I have seen pics of midgets and Sprinters running there. Not on an oval.

[ronmac]

HI I found a bundle of christchurch speedway programmes.,..(Gathering Dust in a Silent Room ) ??
Midget one lap records....Quarter mile tracks....
Aranui....4 cyld....20.....secs.....Bill Evans.......1955
Aranui....6 cyld....20.....secs.....Bill Harris.......1956.
Templeton............24.2..secs.....Ron Mc Phail....1963.
Templeton............21.2..secs.....Merv Sloan......1963
Templeton............20.1..secs.....Trev..Hall........1964
Templeton............19.3..secs.....Eddie.Murray...1967
Templeton............19.2..secs.....Trev..Hall........1968
Templeton............19.2..secs.....Trev .Hall........1971.
Templeton............18.4..secs.....Lee Scott.........1974.
Western Springs....16.7.secs......Mel Kenyon.....1980.
Templeton.............16.3.secs.....Larry Rice........1986.

I Hope this is of interest.. (ronmac )

[wenoopy]

For what it's worth, Rodger Ward's qualifying speed in the Kurtis midget at Sebring was an 84 mph average. And that was probably somewhat faster than a normal (US) midget.
Now, were Aussie midgets faster than US ones?

Rodger Ward won the 60 lap formule libre final race at Lime Rock on 25 July 1959 in a Kurtis midget owned by Ken Brenn, against sports car and single-seater (including 250F Maserati) opposition. I presume this was the same car as used at Sebring. Lime Rock was a relatively twisty 1.5 mile track. Were there any maximum speeds recorded down the straights on the day and did Ward run any other road type races in the Midget apart from US GP?