24 replies to this topic

[ChrisD]

In the 1950 Mille Miglia Jaguar XK120 race #737 came in 16th overall. It was driven by "I.D.E.B.", with Alessandro Gaboardi co-driving.

Does anyone know the identity of I.D.E.B.?

Chris

[Mistron]

Given that it was a Jaguar, my initial thought was Ivor Bueb, but I see from Wikipedia that his full name was "Ivor Léon John Bueb"

But then Wikipedia has been wrong before.....

[Bauble]

The guy (?) presumably used initials so as not to be identified, but I am 99% (never 100% on this forum) that it was not Ivor the driver, not in 1950.

[RCH]

Too early for Ivor Bueb to have been venturing to Italy for the Mille Miglia, not that he ever did anyway.

The Autocar report says that a Jaguar XK120 was driven by Swiss drivers Ideb and Gaboardi, as though his actual surname was Ideb. He must have had some ability, the implication seens to be that at one stage the 5 XK120s in race (Biondetti, Johnson, Haines, Wisdom and "Ideb") were occupying top ten positions, although this could have been a bit of British biased exageration?

[ReWind]

I'd guess it should be spelled "IdeB" which could stand for I(= given name) de B(= surname).

So we would have to look for a racing driver called I. (or J.) de B...

Maybe it was Jacques de Bourbon y Parma (1922 - 1964) who was a prince and in 1950 could have had a reason to hide his identity behind a pseudonym.

[Tim Murray]

I assume this is the same Alessandro Gaboardi, Alfa Romeo mechanic and test driver, who was given a drive in one of the Alfetta 158s in the 1947 Italian GP, finishing fourth. If so, interesting that he should be driving a Jaguar in the 1950 Mille Miglia.

[Amphicar]

I'd guess it should be spelled "IdeB" which could stand for I(= given name) de B(= surname).

So we would have to look for a racing driver called I. (or J.) de B...

Maybe it was Jacques de Bourbon y Parma (1922 - 1964) who was a prince and in 1950 could have had a reason to hide his identity behind a pseudonym.

A most ingenious suggestion - but all the references I have seen to the results of the 1950 Mille Miglia show Gaboardi's co-driver as I.D.E.B. - all capitals and with full stops between them, suggesting that they are all initials. Some results show I.D.E.B. in inverted commas: "I.D.E.B.", which usually indicates a racing pseudonym (like "Amphicar").

There is a Mille Miglia Museum, with a website: http://www.museomillemiglia.it, including an archives page, which states:

"The race archived is preserved in the Mille Miglia Museum, with more than one hundred and thirty thousand documents preserved by Renzo Castagneto and his staff in the 1927-1957 period at the Automobile Club of Brescia.

Apart from a few exceptions or losses, the Historical Archives of the event contain all organization-related material, such as competitors' entry form, correspondence exchanged with car marques and their racing divisions, race results and charts, starting lists, press reviews with articles, papers and magazines of that period, the famous one-issue magazines called "Numeri Unici".

All documents have been scanned for digital archive storage, so that they are now accessible through a search engine. Researches and professionals, but also fascinated persons and fans of historical car races can consult the Historical Archives submitting their request for specific archival research by mail, email or fax."

ChrisD might find the answer there - the e-mail address is archivio@museomillemiglia.it

Edited by Amphicar, 23 February 2011 - 18:18.

[terry mcgrath]

Of greater interest in that the jaguar books I have only list 4 works entrants for the April 1950 Mille Miglia is what car this pair were driving
: 2 possibilities are a red RHD car delivered new to Italy a few days before or another works car that we have just discovered was photographed in Italy just prior to the start of the event
I am very keen to find out what car they were in does anyone have pics of the various jaguar entrants??
terry

[terry mcgrath]

I have emailed the Mille Miglia Museum regarding the entrant and the car they were driving and it will be interesting to see what comes back
terry

There is a Mille Miglia Museum, with a website: http://www.museomillemiglia.it, including an archives page, which states:

"The race archived is preserved in the Mille Miglia Museum, with more than one hundred and thirty thousand documents preserved by Renzo Castagneto and his staff in the 1927-1957 period at the Automobile Club of Brescia.

Apart from a few exceptions or losses, the Historical Archives of the event contain all organization-related material, such as competitors' entry form, correspondence exchanged with car marques and their racing divisions, race results and charts, starting lists, press reviews with articles, papers and magazines of that period, the famous one-issue magazines called "Numeri Unici".

All documents have been scanned for digital archive storage, so that they are now accessible through a search engine. Researches and professionals, but also fascinated persons and fans of historical car races can consult the Historical Archives submitting their request for specific archival research by mail, email or fax."

ChrisD might find the answer there - the e-mail address is archivio@museomillemiglia.it

[Fred Gallagher]

The only reference I can find to Gaboardi is winning the 1937 Litoranea Libica in Libya with one Ercole Boratto.

Boratto won the same event in 1939 with Biondetti finishing second.

This comes from "Settant'anni di Gare Automobilistiche in Italia" by Carli. It's a book crammed with results but with an incredibly complicated layout and an index that's hard to fathom.

A Google search will reveal that Boratto was best known for being Mussolini's personal chauffeur and wrote a book detailing the fascist leader's love life. He reportedly died in 1970.

I'm guessing, but there seem to be enough connections here and a very good reason to use a pseudonym.

Now we just need to know what the I.D. stands for, if it was in fact him.

Fred

[Tim Murray]

There's quite a lot about Boratto in this thread:

Mussolini and racing in the 1930s

Both Gaboardi and Boratto are described as Alfa Romeo test drivers (although presumably at different times) so might well have known each other well.

[wenoopy]

According to Martin Krejci's WSRP site, the Portuguese driver Achiles J. Alves de Brito was a retirement in a
Jaguar XK 120 in the Porto(Oporto) sports car race in Portugal on 18 June 1950.
He fulfils most of the criteria for the mysterious I.D.E.B. - organisers might have misread a "J" for an "I".
Does any know anything of this car/driver?

[Bauble]

There were two Italian drivers of the Era who might possibly be IDEB Ipolitto Berone and Ettore Bianco. I base this simply on their initials and have no further knowledge of either of them.

[D-Type]

I've just had a thought. When I worked with a bunch of Italians I noticed they would abbreviate names differently from us Brits. Easiest to show with an example: we would abbreviate Stirling C Moss as "SCM", they would use "SMo".

So "IDEB" could be "I~ Deb~"

(But I still think "I~ de B~" or "J~ de B~" is the most likely).

Edited by D-Type, 05 April 2011 - 21:59.

[David McKinney]

What was Count de Barry's first name?

[wenoopy]

What was Count de Barry's first name?

According to the Dundrod 1955 thread, he was Henri de Barry. Cryptic crossworders will notice "IDEB" concealed therein. Was this your point, or am I suspecting Machiavellian motives where none exist.

[The Mountaineer]

Very interesting speculations, but it seems they're all wrong.

According to Swiss periodical "Automobil Revue" from April 26, 1950, I.D.E.B is an Italian-based Swiss called Wild (no first name given). Mostly living in Italy, he also had a Swiss domicile in Silvaplana, near St. Moritz. It seems that he was not known before in Swiss racing circles.

I want to point out that this Mr Wild is not identical with Cisitalia, Volpini and Ferrari driver Otto Wild from Muri (Aargau, Switzerland).

[David McKinney]

No doubt the man who raced Alfas in Italy in the 1930s under the nom de course "Ventidue"

I seem to remember he had a brother who also raced under a nom de course

And I'm very sorry my de Barry suggestion didn't work out

[Vitesse2]

No doubt the man who raced Alfas in Italy in the 1930s under the nom de course "Ventidue"

I seem to remember he had a brother who also raced under a nom de course

Mr "Twenty-two" was my immediate thought as well. His brother was "Ventiuno" ("Twenty-one").

[David McKinney]

Thanks Richard
I'm too busy (or lazy?) to have looked it up

[terry mcgrath]

This is great news does the magazine article show a picture of the car he was driving entry number #737 or does it give the colour??

Very interesting speculations, but it seems they're all wrong.

According to Swiss periodical "Automobil Revue" from April 26, 1950, I.D.E.B is an Italian-based Swiss called Wild (no first name given). Mostly living in Italy, he also had a Swiss domicile in Silvaplana, near St. Moritz. It seems that he was not known before in Swiss racing circles.

I want to point out that this Mr Wild is not identical with Cisitalia, Volpini and Ferrari driver Otto Wild from Muri (Aargau, Switzerland).

[terry mcgrath]

Wild later owned a ferrari 340

Very interesting speculations, but it seems they're all wrong.

According to Swiss periodical "Automobil Revue" from April 26, 1950, I.D.E.B is an Italian-based Swiss called Wild (no first name given). Mostly living in Italy, he also had a Swiss domicile in Silvaplana, near St. Moritz. It seems that he was not known before in Swiss racing circles.

I want to point out that this Mr Wild is not identical with Cisitalia, Volpini and Ferrari driver Otto Wild from Muri (Aargau, Switzerland).

[The Mountaineer]

Sorry, in the article is neither a starting number nor a colour of the car given.

[humphries]

Supporting the assertion that Wild was Ideb, at the Susa-Moncenisio (30 July 1950) Wild (Jaguar 3500) was 5th in the over 1100cc class. Later at Pontedecimo-Giovi (24 Sept 1950) Lodovico Wild was 6th in his class beating Biondetti, both of whom were in (sic) Jaguars 3600, Wild's an XK120 and Biondetti's his Ferrari Spl. Before WW2 Alessandro Wild and Lodovico Wild competed in the Mille Miglia. Quite why the pseudonym IDEB I do not know.

John

Edited by humphries, 11 September 2011 - 21:41.

[terry mcgrath]

Well this is a major step forward now to see if we can get pics of these 2 events or a entry list to see if details of colour etc is included.
I notice that "FRECCIA D'ORO" did a book on the Pontedecimo-Giovi event does anyone have contact details for him.
regards terry

FRECCIA D'ORO
Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: GENOA,ITALY
Posts: 90
I'm one of the author of the Pontedecimo-Giovi book , all the details about this 6c2300B are already discussed here

Supporting the assertion that Wild was Ideb, at the Susa-Moncenisio (30 July 1950) Wild (Jaguar 3500) was 5th in the over 1100cc class. Later at Pontedecimo-Giovi (24 Sept 1950) Lodovico Wild was 6th in his class beating Biondetti, both of whom were in (sic) Jaguars 3600, Wild's an XK120 and Biondetti's his Ferrari Spl. Before WW2 Alessandro Wild and Lodovico Wild competed in the Mille Miglia. Quite why the pseudonym IDEB I do not know.

John