48 replies to this topic

[redgts]

I am interested to know the history of the little Bluebirds of the mid 60"s and were successful at racing at Bathurst in their class. I think they may have been works cars. Are there any photos out there or any other history?

[cooper997]

Arnold Glass, Capitol Motors, Sydney (Datsun importer/distributor at the time) entered 3 Bluebirds in Divison A - up to £900, of the September 30th, 1962 'Bathurst 6 Hour Classic'. Cars were numbered 6A, 7A & 8A.

One is actually featured on the race programme cover.

Stephen

[degruch]

Here's a couple photos I found just quickly, I'm sure there's a lot more:

http://datsun1200.co...o.php?lid=16823

http://datsun1200.co...o.php?lid=16822

There was a decent Sportscar World (I think) on Kitamo Takanashi's winning race at the time...I used to have it but sold the mag.

Cheers,
Duane

[Ray Bell]

Of some interest:



The Bluebirds didn't run often, in fact apart from the 6-hour, none were entered for Bathurst until 1966, with none having run at the Phillip Island Armstrongs either. Then in '67 the main Datsun entries were for 1000s, 1968 saw the new 1600s join in.

[PS30-SB]

There was a decent Sportscar World (I think) on Kitamo Takanashi's winning race at the time...I used to have it but sold the mag.

Do you mean Moto KITANO and Kunimitsu TAKAHASHI?

[cooper997]

Prior to the Bathurst 6 Hour, there was a record attempt run at Sandown on September 23rd, 1962. Driven by the man who instigated the Armstrong 500 at Phillip Island in 1960, Ron Thonemann (who was a PR man). Despite the Datsun Bluebird's standard specification for the run, Peter Menere was given the task of dismantling and balancing the 1200cc engine.

Four National class F records were achieved for distances covering 50 kilometres, 50 miles, 100 kilometres and one hour.

Feedback from this would have helped for the following weekend at Bathurst. Although it was too short a timespan to do anything about wheel fatigue. Because that was the undoing of the cars at the 6 Hour.

Stephen

[GMACKIE]

Arnold Glass ignored the fact that the wheels were 'falling off', and advertised them as '100 MPH Datsuns. Nobody knows how, but one was timed at over 100 MPH down Conrod straight at Bathurst!

[GeoffR]

Arnold Glass ignored the fact that the wheels were 'falling off', and advertised them as '100 MPH Datsuns. Nobody knows how, but one was timed at over 100 MPH down Conrod straight at Bathurst!

Maybe it was one of these??
http://www.uniquecar...rd_sss_r411.htm

[Ray Bell]

Pre-production prototypes using an engine still two years from production?

Yeah, that might be it. Or maybe, just maybe, the fact that Conrod Straight is steeply downhill and there was faster traffic around to get a tow from might have helped.

[redgts]

Pre-production prototypes using an engine still two years from production?

Yeah, that might be it. Or maybe, just maybe, the fact that Conrod Straight is steeply downhill and there was faster traffic around to get a tow from might have helped.

At Bathurst 1967 they were in class A as Datsun 1300 ,this engine was a copy of an MG engine .If it could hit 100mph down con rod imagine going up the mountain,but it was probably relative to other cars.

[GD66]

Do you mean Moto KITANO and Kunimitsu TAKAHASHI?

Gasp ! Both works riders in the formative years of the Honda GP motorcycle team, in fact Takahashi won the 1961 German 250 GP at Hockenheim. Never knew they were car racers, though. Gotta love TNF !

[D-Type]

I think one of the first competition successes for the Datsun Bluebird was winning the round Australia rally in the late fifties.

And was the later 1600 SSS (winner of the 1970 Safari etc) still badged as a Bluebird?

[PS30-SB]

Gasp ! Both works riders in the formative years of the Honda GP motorcycle team, in fact Takahashi won the 1961 German 250 GP at Hockenheim. Never knew they were car racers, though. Gotta love TNF !

I know people who only know them from their work on four wheels....

Both had very long careers as works drivers for Nissan from the mid 1960s. Kitano right up to 1990, and Takahashi on well into the nineties. Both very successful, and well respected.

Both big heroes of mine. Kitano I've met a number of times and is a really nice, quiet and modest chap. Has some nice reminiscences about the IOM TT. Takahashi drove one of my cars at an event in Japan, and autographed the inner wing. I have to wash around that bit now.....


D-Type,
Yes, the 110-series onwards ( including the 210-series ones that took part in the 1958 Mobilgas Trial, taking a class win and team prize ) and on through several generations - including that 510-series '70 EA Safari winner - were all 'Bluebird' models in their homeland.


By the way, Nissan have an amazing collection of old production - and race - cars in their 'Heritage Collection' at the old Zama plant. It's now online, and interactive. Here's the home page of the English version: http://press.nissan-...e/en_index.html

Edited by PS30-SB, 24 February 2011 - 17:14.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by redgts
At Bathurst 1967 they were in class A as Datsun 1300 ,this engine was a copy of an MG engine. If it could hit 100mph down con rod imagine going up the mountain,but it was probably relative to other cars.

You really did miss my point...

The '100mph Datsuns' were the 1962 6-hour race cars. That trailer was sold and repainted by 1967, Carnal Arnold was into a Lotus 27 by 1964.

I wouldn't place too much emphasis on the 'MG engine' bit either. MG engines were merely slightly warmed over versions of very fallible B-Series engines.

The Datsun Bluebird 1200 and 1300 engines were based on the old Austin A40 (Devon etc... 1949) engine but seriously re-engineered. The Fairlady engine was a whole new ball game and was also a truck engine (Nissan Caball etc) that went out as far as 2-litres.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by D-Type
I think one of the first competition successes for the Datsun Bluebird was winning the round Australia rally in the late fifties.

And was the later 1600 SSS (winner of the 1970 Safari etc) still badged as a Bluebird?

First, the 1600s or 510 series were never badged 'Bluebird' in Australia...

And if the Bluebirds had any successes in round Australia Trials, they were class or Teams prizes only, and I'd suspect none before the '64 Ampol. If then.

[D-Type]

First, the 1600s or 510 series were never badged 'Bluebird' in Australia...

And if the Bluebirds had any successes in round Australia Trials, they were class or Teams prizes only, and I'd suspect none before the '64 Ampol. If then.

The 1600 SSS was branded as a Bluebird-U in Japan.

1958 and I suspect a few others

Edited by D-Type, 24 February 2011 - 22:04.

[PS30-SB]

First, the 1600s or 510 series were never badged 'Bluebird' in Australia...

Didn't realise this thread was just about Australia.

And if the Bluebirds had any successes in round Australia Trials, they were class or Teams prizes only, and I'd suspect none before the '64 Ampol. If then.

As D-Type has pointed out, a class and team prize in the 1958 Mobilgas Trial: http://press.nissan-...detail.html?017

[smeetsie]

[quote name='Ray Bell' date='Feb 25 2011, 07:59' post='4866194']
The Datsun Bluebird 1200 and 1300 engines were based on the old Austin A40 (Devon etc... 1949) engine but seriously re-engineered.

I have used Nissan engine parts from E20 Urvan motor in my 1960's B Series MG engine for my TVR. All components are interchangable ie cranks, camshafts etc with B Series BMC motor from my experience. In fact when I had the Nissan camshafts reground in Melbourne, I found out that a certain very quick Elva Courier has been down the same path. The Japanese metallurgy/engineering is much superior to the "overengineered" and often bulky BMC parts. Also cam shaft lobes do not need building up. Distributor and oil pump drives lighter etc. I was told that Datsun copied/built under licence B series for use in a variety of cars including Bluebirds and right through to E20 Series vans.

Someone has also told me Isuzu did the same with Hillman.

Regards
Pete S

Edited by smeetsie, 24 February 2011 - 23:10.

[Ian G]

I think Nissan/Datsun purchased the licence from BMC to manufacture both the A & B series engines but the Datsun 1200/1300 Bluebirds were definitely short stroke B series motors,as i posted elsewhere i bolted a 3 bearing MGB egine into one in the late 1960's and competed in hillclimbs and rally's.

MGB Engined Datsun 1300 Bluebird.

Edited by Ian G, 25 February 2011 - 10:57.

[Ray Bell]

No others, Duncan...

They were running in the under 1000cc class in '58, up against such great cars (for the outback) as Austin A30s and Morris Minors. They finished 1100 points behind the VW that won the event.

1964 was the next event, the Ampol Trial. The only Japanese success was that of a Toymotor Crown which won the 'overseas' class.

[cooper997]

Arnold Glass ignored the fact that the wheels were 'falling off', and advertised them as '100 MPH Datsuns. Nobody knows how, but one was timed at over 100 MPH down Conrod straight at Bathurst!

Greg,

David McKay's report in Modern Motor mentions "...and one of the Datsuns did a little slipstreaming to register an incredible 100.56 (mph)." Factor in the downhill gradient and most likely some careful preparation too.

The previous week's record attempt with the Peter Menere prepared car was doing around 90mph on the front straight of Sandown.

Regardless of all that, it was enough for Arnold and his advertising people to spruik the magic 100mph figure.

Stephen

[GeoffR]

Given the thread title just refers to Bluebirds in competition, there were also these (not quite '60s though) ....

Datsun, Nissan; all the same aren't they?

[degruch]

Do you mean Moto KITANO and Kunimitsu TAKAHASHI?

Put a " / " in between the names, if you like.

[GeoffR]

Back to the '60s, I knew I'd seen this one somewhere. This car won Tasmanian Rally Championships in 1966, '67 & '69 for Ray Long and Don Reid.

Well the thread title does say 'competition'.

Edited by GeoffR, 25 February 2011 - 07:53.

[D-Type]

No others, Duncan...

They were running in the under 1000cc class in '58, up against such great cars (for the outback) as Austin A30s and Morris Minors. They finished 1100 points behind the VW that won the event.

1964 was the next event, the Ampol Trial. The only Japanese success was that of a Toymotor Crown which won the 'overseas' class.

If you want to be really pedantic, I think the Bluebird name wasn't introduced until 1959 - sothe 1958 cars weren't Bluebirds anyway!

I have to agree with you about the A30/35 and Morris Minor being "tarmac cars". The only 1000cc cars you would think of taking onto a dirt road in Kenya were a DKW or later a 105E Anglia. (I'm posting from work and I'll check my Safari books tonight in case this is more signature justification).

Edited by D-Type, 26 February 2011 - 00:28.

[Ray Bell]

And maybe a Renault Dauphine?

The field was certainly limited...

[Bauble]

I wonder if the exploits of these Jap cars at Bathurst might not have given rise to the Richie Valens sopng 'Bluebirds over the Mountain'?

[PS30-SB]

Put a " / " in between the names, if you like.

That'll be "Kitamo / Takanashi", then.....

Doesn't seem to fix it.

[PS30-SB]

And maybe a Renault Dauphine?

The field was certainly limited...

Not their fault who did or did not turn out for the event. At least they started and finished. With two cars.

[redgts]

You really did miss my point...

The '100mph Datsuns' were the 1962 6-hour race cars. That trailer was sold and repainted by 1967, Carnal Arnold was into a Lotus 27 by 1964.

I wouldn't place too much emphasis on the 'MG engine' bit either. MG engines were merely slightly warmed over versions of very fallible B-Series engines.

The Datsun Bluebird 1200 and 1300 engines were based on the old Austin A40 (Devon etc... 1949) engine but seriously re-engineered. The Fairlady engine was a whole new ball game and was also a truck engine (Nissan Caball etc) that went out as far as 2-litres.

Sorry Ray but i am not aware of the 1962 6-Hour race ,give me some details please on this race .

[Ian G]

Back to the '60s, I knew I'd seen this one somewhere. This car won Tasmanian Rally Championships in 1966, '67 & '69 for Ray Long and Don Reid.

Well the thread title does say 'competition'.

I'm betting it was a left hand drive car(top navigator) if it won the Tassy. Championship,it was the same in NSW around that time,some diabolical navigation in many of the Rally's.

[cooper997]

Sorry Ray but i am not aware of the 1962 6-Hour race ,give me some details please on this race .

Clearly I wasted my time in post #2, #6 & #21. You asked for early Bluebird information, I went ferreting in my trivia, but obviously it was pointless.

Stephen

[D-Type]

If you want to be really pedantic, I think the Bluebird name wasn't introduced until 1959 - so the 1958 cars weren't Bluebirds anyway!

I have to agree with you about the A30/35 and Morris Minor being "tarmac cars". The only 1000cc cars you would think of taking onto a dirt road in Kenya were a DKW or later a 105E Anglia. (I'm posting from work and I'll check my Safari books tonight in case this is more signature justification).

To close out the Safari story - in 1956 they had a record number of finishers -78 from 90 (86.67%) due to a combination of too low averages and dry weather. Loads of under 1000cc cars finished - 7 DKWs, 6 Morris Minors, 2 Fiat 600s, 1 A30 and 1 Lloyd 600. In 1957 2 Morris Minors, 2 DKWs, 1 A35. 1958 2 Morris Minors and 5 DKWs/ Auto Unions. 1959: 6 DKWs/ Auto Unions. generally only the DKws took class placings but a Minor did manage 3rd in class.
Then in 1960 the 105E arrived and took 1, 2, 3 in the 1000cc class.
Goggomobiles were entered but never finished. A team of 6 Renault Ondine Gordinis (posh Dauphines) was entered in 1961 and two finished last and second to last but 1st and 2nd in the 850cc class.
Generally the VWs, Anglias, DKWs and later the SAABs did far better than the Austin, Morris and Renault entries.

[GeoffR]

I'm betting it was a left hand drive car(top navigator) if it won the Tassy. Championship,it was the same in NSW around that time,some diabolical navigation in many of the Rally's.

Don Reid was one of the top navs in Tassie for a number of years (I have most of his old maps), although Ray was no slouch as a driver back then either. The Datsun must have been a pretty tough little car to do at least 4 seasons of 1960's Tas championships, where the VW Beetle thrived. Events then were more than 24 hours, lots of grotty tracks, huge new & largely unmapped plantations and diabolical navigation.

[redgts]

Clearly I wasted my time in post #2, #6 & #21. You asked for early Bluebird information, I went ferreting in my trivia, but obviously it was pointless.

Stephen

Sorry Stephen, your information is appreciated and well researched however, I am confused, please excuse my ignorance about " 6-hours races" or are you referring to the Armstrong 500 at Bathurst 1963 or the Armstrong 500 at Phillip Island 1962.

[cooper997]

Back in the dark ages of Bathurst history (read before the Armstrong 500 of October 1963) the ARDC (Australian Racing Drivers Club), ran meetings at Easter and the traditional NSW long weekend of October (but sometimes the end of September) each year. Traditionally these events were run for 'proper' racing cars, with the sedans NOT the lead act.

In 1962, the ARDC decided to run a 6 hour race for production cars, utilising various class structures (or 'Divisions' as they are classified in the event programme) based on prices of the cars. This took place on September 30th, 1962.

Division A: Production Touring Cars - up to £900 - Mini 850, NSU Prinz, Hillman Husky, Skoda Supe Octavia, Ford Anglia, Datsun Bluebird.
Division B: Production Touring Cars - £901 to £1050 - Fiat 1100, Morris Major, Hillman, Skoda, Renault Gordini, Simca.
Division C: Production Touring Cars - £1051 to £1250 - Peugeot 403, Holden, Ford Falcon, Austin Freeway, Mini Cooper.
Division D: Production Touring Cars - £1251 to £1700 - Fiat 1500 & 2300, Studebaker Lark, Citroen.
Division E: Production Sports Cars - up to £1500 - AH Sprite, MGA, Morgan Plus 4.
Division F: Production Sports Cars - £1501 to £2000 - Triumph TR4, MG A Twin cam, Daimler SP250.

The Bluebirds had a sale price of £898, with the 3 of them entered having the woes that have already been mentioned with wheels. The drivers of these cars being #6A - John French/Paul Bolton, #7A - Arnold Glass/Noel Hall & #8A - Alwyn Rose/Tom Sulman.

The overall winner was the Geoghegan Brothers, Leo & Ian in the Daimler SP250 sports, this had a listed price for the event of £1995.

The Bathurst 6 Hour Classic was only run this once. Phillip Island ran its third and final Armstrong 500 on October 21st, 1962. After that race the Island track was in ruin and didn't have another race there for 5 years. So the Armstrong moved to Bathurst. The first run event being October 6th, 1963.

If you do a TNF search using 'SP250' the Ray Bell started thread about Daimler SP250 in Australia should be able to be found and this has some detail about the Bathurst 6 hour too.

Stephen

[redgts]

Well just when I thought I knew eveything all this history comes to light.Thanks mate.

[Ian G]

Don Reid was one of the top navs in Tassie for a number of years (I have most of his old maps), although Ray was no slouch as a driver back then either. The Datsun must have been a pretty tough little car to do at least 4 seasons of 1960's Tas championships, where the VW Beetle thrived. Events then were more than 24 hours, lots of grotty tracks, huge new & largely unmapped plantations and diabolical navigation.

Yeah,its team effort,but i notice no reversing light so they didn't go down too many wrong roads,nearly impossible to reverse up narrow tracks without a strong light and it also gives a bit of warning to the following car if they made the wrong turn as well. I also notice they are using standard rims so tip-toeing across the creek crossing is wise,the wheel problem still wasn't fixed on our 1967 car.We cracked 2 rims in the first 2 Rally's we entered in 1968,they crack across the bolt holes,we fitted 4 bolt Falcon rims after the 2nd one went and that fixed the problem until we went to Mags.
The Bluebirds were rubbished by most of the mags in Oz. esp. Modern Motor & Wheels but they were a tough well built car and used much heavier gauge steel than later Datsuns such as the 1000 & 1600. The main problem was that they were underpowered by 1960's standards,the head of Datsun in the USA,based in LA,travelled to Japan in 1967 to speak to Co. executives and told them straight they were wasting their time exporting to the USA as they couldn't keep up with other cars on the Freeways,as a result the plans for the 510 were extended to include a 1600cc motor for export & the planned 1300cc OHC unit was kept for domestic sales.

[Paul Newby]

Back in the dark ages of Bathurst history (read before the Armstrong 500 of October 1963) the ARDC (Australian Racing Drivers Club), ran meetings at Easter and the traditional NSW long weekend of October (but sometimes the end of September) each year. Traditionally these events were run for 'proper' racing cars, with the sedans NOT the lead act.

In 1962, the ARDC decided to run a 6 hour race for production cars, utilising various class structures (or 'Divisions' as they are classified in the event programme) based on prices of the cars. This took place on September 30th, 1962.

Division A: Production Touring Cars - up to £900 - Mini 850, NSU Prinz, Hillman Husky, Skoda Supe Octavia, Ford Anglia, Datsun Bluebird.
Division B: Production Touring Cars - £901 to £1050 - Fiat 1100, Morris Major, Hillman, Skoda, Renault Gordini, Simca.
Division C: Production Touring Cars - £1051 to £1250 - Peugeot 403, Holden, Ford Falcon, Austin Freeway, Mini Cooper.
Division D: Production Touring Cars - £1251 to £1700 - Fiat 1500 & 2300, Studebaker Lark, Citroen.
Division E: Production Sports Cars - up to £1500 - AH Sprite, MGA, Morgan Plus 4.
Division F: Production Sports Cars - £1501 to £2000 - Triumph TR4, MG A Twin cam, Daimler SP250.

The Bluebirds had a sale price of £898, with the 3 of them entered having the woes that have already been mentioned with wheels. The drivers of these cars being #6A - John French/Paul Bolton, #7A - Arnold Glass/Noel Hall & #8A - Alwyn Rose/Tom Sulman.

The overall winner was the Geoghegan Brothers, Leo & Ian in the Daimler SP250 sports, this had a listed price for the event of £1995.

The Bathurst 6 Hour Classic was only run this once. Phillip Island ran its third and final Armstrong 500 on October 21st, 1962. After that race the Island track was in ruin and didn't have another race there for 5 years. So the Armstrong moved to Bathurst. The first run event being October 6th, 1963.

If you do a TNF search using 'SP250' the Ray Bell started thread about Daimler SP250 in Australia should be able to be found and this has some detail about the Bathurst 6 hour too.

Stephen

Thank you for this Stephen.

Never has such a significant race in Australian motorsport history been so poorly reported on over the years.

This event didn't even make John Medley's Bathurst book, which I feel is a travesty.

I've only ever seen a couple of photos from the events - Geoghegan's Daimler SP250, Peter Wherrett in a Hillman.

Did any spectators or press turn up for this event? Was it just considered a clubbie event of little consequence..?

[GMACKIE]

The race [not sure if it was the whole thing] was shown on TV. There was a lot of coverage of the SP-250's door flying open!

[Ian G]

I'm sure the highlights are on DVD,may be part of a set thou,did a quick Google and didn't come up with anything other than the Wiki entry Here

[Warren Matthews]

Haven't posted here for a while but while "surfing" this came up.
John Glasson drove a Bluebird in 1963 Six Hour at Caversham- it was a Duncan Motors car and they were aware of wheel problem.
I called in one evening with Arnold Glass -which is another story- and they were welding the inside of rims.
I noticed however that the welds were just butted together but didn't want to tell them.

Had great dice with John during race but at about an hour and a half in the front left wheel broke at end of straight just as John turned- he went off and ended up in dirt near overhead bridge.
They managed to get out again but we picked up considerable time and they were no threat from then on.
Think John had couple more drives in the Bluebird.

[cooper997]

Thank you for this Stephen.

Never has such a significant race in Australian motorsport history been so poorly reported on over the years.

This event didn't even make John Medley's Bathurst book, which I feel is a travesty.

I've only ever seen a couple of photos from the events - Geoghegan's Daimler SP250, Peter Wherrett in a Hillman.

Did any spectators or press turn up for this event? Was it just considered a clubbie event of little consequence..?

Paul,

It's true that this race has indeed remained a well kept secret for many years. Nobody really looks for the sedans before the Armstrong era began at Bathurst.

It did get reasonable coverage in the motoring press of the day - Australian Motor Sports, Autosportsman, Modern Motor, Sports Car World, etc. And as Greg has mentioned, it was telecast on TV. So it was all pretty serious at the time. Just long forgotten.

It was however, Daimler's moment in the spotlight as far as a major race win in Australia.

Stephen

[GMACKIE]

If my memory serves me right, journalist Clyde Hodgins campaigned the ex-'Leo&Pete' Daimler SP-250 for a while.

[PS30-SB]

The Bluebirds were rubbished by most of the mags in Oz. esp. Modern Motor & Wheels but they were a tough well built car and used much heavier gauge steel than later Datsuns such as the 1000 & 1600. The main problem was that they were underpowered by 1960's standards,the head of Datsun in the USA,based in LA,travelled to Japan in 1967 to speak to Co. executives and told them straight they were wasting their time exporting to the USA as they couldn't keep up with other cars on the Freeways,as a result the plans for the 510 were extended to include a 1600cc motor for export & the planned 1300cc OHC unit was kept for domestic sales.

Sorry, but this is just USA-centric sales flannel mixed with the somewhat egocentric reminiscences of said "head of Datsun in the USA". And if he had indeed "travelled to Japan in 1967" he would have been a little late, as the new Nissan L-series engine 'module' had been conceived in 1964 when the L20 six was created, and the L16 four was already in production in 1967 and being fitted to Japanese domestic market 510-series models as an alternative to the L13. Yes, the L16's main target was for Export markets, but it was part of a family of engines. It wasn't something that was tacked-on as an afterthought at the behest of one man.

Nissan didn't need anybody to tell them what was needed for export markets in the early to mid 1960s, and for the most part it was the same as what Japan itself would be needing and expecting very shortly too. These storytellers make the Nissan of this period sound like some kind of backstreet garage business, when in fact the company was already a rapidly expanding industrial giant - much like Japan was itself.

[Ian G]

..your a friendly fellow and by your knowledge i guess you were there at the time,i apologise,the date was 1966 and the fellow in question was Japanese,not American.

http://zhome.com/His...s/LSeriesR1.htm

Edited by Ian G, 04 March 2011 - 00:03.

[PS30-SB]

..your a friendly fellow and by your knowledge i guess you were there at the time,i apologise,the date was 1966 and the fellow in question was Japanese,not American.

http://zhome.com/His...s/LSeriesR1.htm

Sorry, I don't mean to come across as being unfriendly, but the frustration of seeing these lies repeated so often probably makes me seem a little short.

I'm afraid your reply is a perfect illustration of the problem. You link to an article on zhome.com ( the 'Fox News' of Nissan S30-series Z history ) which completely mis-translates an excellent article from Japan's 'Nostalgic Hero' magazine, in order to support preconceptions rooted in the very same USA-centric sales flannel and self-promoting twaddle from Yutaka KATAYAMA, former president of NMC USA ( yes, he is Japanese - I know ). I could pull that 'translation' and the zhome.com article to pieces quite quickly, but I doubt you'd want to hear about it. Suffice to say that zhome.com administrator / owner Mr Carl Beck has added his own very considerable spin to a non-technical 'translation', and missed out large passages from the original which contradict that spin. I find it frustrating and very sad that search engines light your way onto rocks by suggesting that one-man sites like zhome.com will be reliable witnesses to Japanese industrial history. Such sites create and self-support their own parallel universes of untruth, whilst resisting any critique from outside.

The truth - in short - is that Nissan knew it had to up its game for its own growing domestic market just as much as for its growing export ambitions, and was actively working on that when Yutaka KATAYAMA was stating the obvious. KATAYAMA is held in great affection, and this tends to cloud any discussion of him, but suffice to say that his version of history is told from his own perspective and does not necessarily match up with the perspectives of others who were were working in the company during the same period.

No I wasn't "there at the time". However, I do have a deep personal interest in the subject, I research from Japanese sources just as much as any other, and I try to see the stories from all sides. I take a lot of the KATAYAMA-lore with a big pinch of salt, and would advise others to do likewise.

[Ian G]

No worries,getting OT but my original take on this was a book i read on the history of the 1600/240Z in the 1970's,that link is just a convenient Google from the Marque Sports Car thread and seems to be accepted fact from that time but who,except for Nissan executives at the time,would know the truth.I notice on USA Forums that the debate on who designed the 240Z is still going on with that Austrian/German(?) guy having his supporters & detractors.
From what i have read Nissan in the mid 1960's was still a reatively backward Co. by world Auto. standards,it was reported their styling dept did not know how to make clay models for eg, but of course the 2000 Sports & 1600 changed all that.

[D-Type]

No worries,getting OT but my original take on this was a book i read on the history of the 1600/240Z in the 1970's,that link is just a convenient Google from the Marque Sports Car thread and seems to be accepted fact from that time but who,except for Nissan executives at the time,would know the truth.I notice on USA Forums that the debate on who designed the 240Z is still going on with that Austrian/German(?) guy having his supporters & detractors.
From what i have read Nissan in the mid 1960's was still a relatively backward Co. by world Auto. standards,it was reported their styling dept did not know how to make clay models for eg, but of course the 2000 Sports & 1600 changed all that.

Like the Honda motorcycle company 10 years earlier!

Or the Japanese army in 1940!