13 replies to this topic

[LittleChris]

As a Francophile with a limited French vocabulary, I enjoy accessing forums such as Autodiva and Memoires des Standes primarily for the pictures but feel no compunction to become a member because I spend far too much time on the ‘puter looking at TNF as it is.

Today, however, I saw a thread on Autodiva with a number of what I believe to be new pictures documenting the fiery death of Bill Whitehouse but which were identified as being the Herbert Mackay-Frazer shunt .

I’m aware that some people from Autodiva etc also post in TNF and vice versa so wondered whether some sort of informal connection could be established whereby guests to similar forums could point out obvious errors in postings with the help of a forum registered translator but without having to formally join the forum ? My concern is that the Autodiva pics will become viewed as the truth and they are not in my opinion.

Chris

[David McKinney]

Today, however, I saw a thread on Autodiva with a number of what I believe to be new pictures documenting the fiery death of Bill Whitehouse but which were identified as being the Herbert Mackay-Frazer shunt .

Have posted a comment
Didn't bother to point out however that there was never a driver called Herbert Mackay-Frazer, because I've got sick of saying it over and over again. Mackay was Mr Frazer's second forename, and the one by which he was known

[Tim Murray]

Your efforts have not been entirely in vain, David. Thanks to you I shall never now forget that there is no hyphen in the name, but is his surname Frazer or Fraser? Also, how should one pronounce Mackay? In the UK it would always be 'MaKYE' (the last syllable rhyming with 'pie'. However, I have it in the back of my mind that the American pronunciation might be 'MaCAY' or 'MAcay', the last syllable rhyming with 'stay'.

[wenoopy]

Your efforts have not been entirely in vain, David. Thanks to you I shall never now forget that there is no hyphen in the name, but is his surname Frazer or Fraser? Also, how should one pronounce Mackay? In the UK it would always be 'MaKYE' (the last syllable rhyming with 'pie'. However, I have it in the back of my mind that the American pronunciation might be 'MaCAY' or 'MAcay', the last syllable rhyming with 'stay'.

A US tennis player from way back certainly pronounced it to rhyme with "stay". "Mac" Fraser was reportedly born in Brazil, so who knows how he might have pronounced it.

[David McKinney]

Tim, I didn't check the spelling of his surname. As I said, I'd already raised this topic several times in the past

I would guess, in response to you and Stu, he'd be more likely to pronounce it to rhyme with stay (or pay?)

Perhaps some US TNFers could guide us on the likelihood

[Tim Murray]

Thanks for the responses. As Sir Douglas spells it as 'Fraser' in BRM Vol 1, that's what I'll stick with until someone proves otherwise.

[Doug Nye]

Can someone give me a better guide to where these photos are posted? I have failed to find them.

DCN

[David McKinney]

http://www.autodiva....p...&start=1680

[LittleChris]

Have posted a comment
Didn't bother to point out however that there was never a driver called Herbert Mackay-Frazer, because I've got sick of saying it over and over again. Mackay was Mr Frazer's second forename, and the one by which he was known

Thanks David, just seen it on Autodiva. Perhaps you could be the "missing link"

(One day I wil get Mac's name right !!)

Chris

[Doug Nye]

http://www.autodiva....p...&start=1680

Thank you. That must be the accident which cost Bill Whitehouse his life, on the entry to Thillois Corner. This is not connected to the Mac Fraser incident, whose Lotus 11 did not burn but which ended up inverted on the infield of Gueux Curve, at the other end of the pits straight. That was a tragic weekend for both the Cooper and Lotus communities. Both drivers were very well regarded, and very popular.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 14 March 2011 - 09:38.

[Eric Dunsdon]

Thank you. That must be the accident which cost Bill Whitehouse his life, on the entry to Thillois Corner. This is not connected to the Mac Fraser incident, whose Lotus 11 did not burn but which ended up inverted on the infield of Gueux Curve, at the other end of the pits straight. That was a tragic weekend for both the Cooper and Lotus communities. Both drivers were very well regarded, and very popular.

DCN

A major blow to BRM as well after Mac's wonderful drive at Rouen.

[David McKinney]

Reminding myself of who was down to drive the BRMs at Rheims, I checked a website which listed Flockhart and Fraser. Apologies for the bad taste, but the reason given for Fraser not starting Volonterio's 250F, which he had practised, was "driver diseased"

[Repco22]

Your efforts have not been entirely in vain, David. Thanks to you I shall never now forget that there is no hyphen in the name, but is his surname Frazer or Fraser? Also, how should one pronounce Mackay? In the UK it would always be 'MaKYE' (the last syllable rhyming with 'pie'. However, I have it in the back of my mind that the American pronunciation might be 'MaCAY' or 'MAcay', the last syllable rhyming with 'stay'.

A friend of Irish extraction [and an ex racing driver, btw] claims that his name, McKay, rhymes with "stay" while the Scottish Mackay rhymes with "eye". Meanwhile, in Australia at least, it seems to be "Rafferty's rules" for both. I wonder if there's any truth to his version.

[LittleChris]

Returning to Autodiva, what a wonderful picture posted by Autodiva / TNF contributor Gerard Gamand on 1st May 2008 at 8.11 am

http://www.autodiva....60005c6cd05d41e

Can only be The Avenue at Oulton