41 replies to this topic

[Doug Nye]

Wandering around the back streets of old Havana last week we were startled to see this little jewel hove into sight... Surely not. Could it be?



Nope - it wasn't - it proved to be about three feet too short. Amongst other factors...



One local told us "You'll see that in Cuba we don't have scrap yards - we still drive the scrap" - here's a fairly typical Habanan traffic lights queue. Great feature of the traffic light system is the digital count-down, how long they're going to stay red - or how long they're going to remain green - struck us as much in advance of British lights.



Here's the road junction just below the famous/notorious Hotel Nacional which formed the paddock or collecting area for the 1957 and 1958 Cuban Grand Prix meetings, on the Malecon seafront (background). The competing sports cars were parked in echelon, tail on against the sawtooth kerb at the foot of that distinctive stone retaining wall.



And here's a fairly typical stretch of the Malecon seafront section of the old road circuit - shot from the hot seat in a 1953 Studebaker, which unusually has retained an American V8 engine. Quite a few of these old Yanqui junkers are now Lada-powered...



Those kerbside lamp standards recall images of the Caracas circuit, in Venezuela, crashed, smashed and burning Maseratis and Dressel's broken-in-two AC. Today cheap Venezuelan oil virtually props up Cuba, after 53 years of La Revolucion...which despite one or two triumphs has plainly been in so many other respects a disastrous own goal.

Photos Copyright: The GP Library

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 13 March 2011 - 13:50.

[bradbury west]

It seems the place for Maserati disappointemnts. See post 18;
http://forums.autosp...p;#entry3415694
Did you get chance to go along the old Malecon stretch along the seafront and through the old town parts of the old circuit?
Roger Lund

Edited by bradbury west, 13 March 2011 - 13:37.

[Doug Nye]

Yes - err, sorry fellers - in adding further pix I have rather cocked this up. Help?

DCN

[lanciaman]

More like a Fiat disappointment, wot? (The 1100 TV Spyder, 1953-57.)

Edited by lanciaman, 13 March 2011 - 14:27.

[Bloggsworth]

A friend of mine thinks Cuba is a wonderful place where everybody lives happy and fulfilled lives (and that the sun shines out of Fidel's fundament). I asked him why he doesn't move there from the Royal Borough of Richmond and Kingston.... answer was there none!

Love the pictures and the pre-pubescent Fiat 124 Coupé.

Edited by Bloggsworth, 13 March 2011 - 14:55.

[Jack-the-Lad]

Doug, thanks for the pictures. Are you in Cuba on research or holiday? Let me know if you plan some time in south Florida as part of your trip. I'd love to show you around.

Jack

Edit: Having re-read your initial post, I infer that your trip is now in the past tense.

Edited by Jack-the-Lad, 13 March 2011 - 18:24.

[David McKinney]

Yes - err, sorry fellers - in adding further pix I have rather cocked this up. Help?

DCN

You should be able to delete your other post. I believe there's a time limit, but I think it's fairly generous

[Barry Boor]

I see you had typical British weather, Doug. You poor boy.

[Doug Nye]

Nope - past tense. But thank you for the very kind offer. For various complicated reasons we have been to the Falkland Islands, Ascension Island and Cuba over the past three weeks...and right now aren't completely sure which way up we are. Both fascinating places, however - Mr E plainly considering both as future Grand Prix venues, of course...

DCN

[Doug Nye]

One should not intrude upon private grief ... Cuban food is, ahem, poor. But one sympathises greatly with the locals, for the turisticos are favoured, so their grub is even worse. Tell you what though - despite never wanting ever again to hear a mournful rendering of Guantanamera we never saw a poor musician there, and many - including an astonishing pipe band (!) were simply brilliant. It's an unhappy place, however - almost non-Latin, so markedly has the spirit and the stuffing been crushed out of the people. Where there's no reward for doing anything for yourself and your family, there's no motivation to do, try nor achieve anything. Thousands of acres of lovely farming land left untended and unproductive demonstrated that, as do the wonderful Hispanic buildings in so many cities, towns and villages - just mouldering away, with only a minority apparently caring... The contrast with the frankly whacky Falklands was staggering - but that's 11-million people versus 2,900, which is hardly fair.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 13 March 2011 - 19:08.

[Jack-the-Lad]

Nope - past tense. But thank you for the very kind offer. For various complicated reasons we have been to the Falkland Islands, Ascension Island and Cuba over the past three weeks...and right now aren't completely sure which way up we are. Both fascinating places, however - Mr E plainly considering both as future Grand Prix venues, of course...

DCN

You're quite welcome. The offer is good any time! (By the way, the best Cuban food is in....Florida.) Although I live only 90 miles from the Workers' Paradise, I'd actually rather visit the Falklands. The remoteness appeals to me and I like an occasional exposure to desolation to wash away the urban.

Jack

[JacnGille]

Both fascinating places, however - Mr E plainly considering both as future Grand Prix venues, of course...

DCN

Is there a patch of ground on the entire planet, save Antarctica, that "Mr. E" hasn't considered???????

[raceannouncer2003]

Here's the road junction just below the famous/notorious Hotel Nacional which formed the paddock or collecting area for the 1957 and 1958 Cuban Grand Prix meetings, on the Malecon seafront (background). The competing sports cars were parked in echelon, tail on against the sawtooth kerb at the foot of that distinctive stone retaining wall.

Is the photo on the cover of the recording at this link taken at the same place? The record is currently on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...m#ht_500wt_1156

Vince H.

[Arjan de Roos]

Is there a patch of ground on the entire planet, save Antarctica, that "Mr. E" hasn't considered???????

Northpole ;-)

BTW nice old yellow dutch city bus!

[Doug Nye]

Not quite - just round the corner, where the pits were situated, as pictured. Note the two photos show a different facade of the Nacional.

DCN

[Arjan de Roos]

Was Harry's engine hood still lying about?

[cdrewett]

Nope - past tense. But thank you for the very kind offer. For various complicated reasons we have been to the Falkland Islands, Ascension Island and Cuba over the past three weeks...and right now aren't completely sure which way up we are. Both fascinating places, however - Mr E plainly considering both as future Grand Prix venues, of course...

DCN

We visited a farm on the Falklands a few years ago and amongst other things had a sheep shearing demo (thrill). When it was done and sheep was still sprawled with its legs wide apart little old American tourist asks " are all the sheep males?"
Chris

[Doug Nye]

Nah - generally a very tidy place, despite the crumbling nature of so many once opulent buildings.

DCN

[Giraffe]

Some years ago I was thrilled to meet Fidel Castro at the CARICOM conference in Port of Spain, Trinidad but was desperately dissapointed as he was in business suit, collar & tie rather than the trademark green combat fatigues I was naturally expecting............


By giraffe138 at 2011-03-14

By giraffe138 at 2011-03-14

Edited by Giraffe, 14 March 2011 - 16:52.

[lanciaman]

It is amusing that the Castro government, in power now for 50 years, still refers to itself as "The Revolution." Just how long does it take before a revolution become the status quo?

[Bloggsworth]

It is amusing that the Castro government, in power now for 50 years, still refers to itself as "The Revolution." Just how long does it take before a revolution become the status quo?

The minute another revolution starts...

[David Birchall]

We visited a farm on the Falklands a few years ago and amongst other things had a sheep shearing demo (thrill). When it was done and sheep was still sprawled with its legs wide apart little old American tourist asks " are all the sheep males?"
Chris

We used to keep sheep at the Bellhouse Inn, for tax purposes as well as entertainment for our guests-there is no money in wool. One day a female guest assured us that she could identify the females because they were "the ones with the large things like udders hanging down"....

[Amphicar]

It is amusing that the Castro government, in power now for 50 years, still refers to itself as "The Revolution." Just how long does it take before a revolution become the status quo?

Lev Davidovich Bronshtein, better known as Leon Trotsky formulated the concept of "perpetual revolution" (shortly before he got an ice-pick, which made his ears burn). The Institutional Revolutionary Party has ruled in Mexico for most of the last 70 years.

[sbrinley]

One should not intrude upon private grief ... Cuban food is, ahem, poor. But one sympathises greatly with the locals, for the turisticos are favoured, so their grub is even worse. Tell you what though - despite never wanting ever again to hear a mournful rendering of Guantanamera we never saw a poor musician there, and many - including an astonishing pipe band (!) were simply brilliant. It's an unhappy place, however - almost non-Latin, so markedly has the spirit and the stuffing been crushed out of the people. Where there's no reward for doing anything for yourself and your family, there's no motivation to do, try nor achieve anything. Thousands of acres of lovely farming land left untended and unproductive demonstrated that, as do the wonderful Hispanic buildings in so many cities, towns and villages - just mouldering away, with only a minority apparently caring... The contrast with the frankly whacky Falklands was staggering - but that's 11-million people versus 2,900, which is hardly fair.

DCN

You are so right about the spirit and the stuffing being crushed out of the people. Cuba was really alive before Castro took over--talk to anyone who grew up there in the '40s and '50s before the revolution. They are still around, even if some have come to terms with the reality of a Communist dictatorship. For those who think the place has been grand under Castro, in 1959--before he really got his hands on the economy--Cuba's per capita income was ranked in the top 5 in the hemisphere. Since his acension, the Cuban government hasn't published such annoying figures.

As to the racing, the 1957 Gran Premio de Cuba was won by Fangio, but he was contested pretty much all the way by Alfonso de Portago, who was steadily improving as a driver. His blown engine ensured that he did not place. Even Fangio noted that he was getting better. Tragically, he was leading the '57 mille Miglia when he died. The 1958 race was a fiasco, first with the kidnapping of Fangio by Castro's people and then the deadly accident a few laps into the race. The last race was held in 1960 as a Formula Libre race, I believe; but not on the old course in Havana and along the Malecon. Stirling Moss won it in a birdcage Maserati.

[lanciaman]

When I first moved to the country a dozen years ago, I had occasion to ask a woman well known for her cattle breeding success, "How many calves does a cow have each year?" She looked at me wryly and said, "You're a city boy, aren't you?" My wife, whose father raised prime Black Angus, was deeply ambarrassed.

[longhorn]

Lev Davidovich Bronshtein, better known as Leon Trotsky formulated the concept of "perpetual revolution" (shortly before he got an ice-pick, which made his ears burn). The Institutional Revolutionary Party has ruled in Mexico for most of the last 70 years.

Ah, a line from No More Heroes by the Stranglers.

[Bloggsworth]

The Institutional Revolutionary Party has ruled in Mexico for most of the last 70 years.

And what a good job they are doing.....

[Amphicar]

Ah, a line from No More Heroes by the Stranglers.

Indeed - and I missed the obvious link that Trotsky got the ice pick in Mexico

[Amphicar]

And what a good job they are doing.....

Careful, you'll be causing another Top Gear international incident

[Jerry Entin]

Sbrinley : You have just a few errors in your appraisal of the various races you have listed in post 24.

Portago did not drop out in 1957 with a blown engine, he finished 3rd overall. He did not lead the Mille Miglia in 1957 when he crashed, he was running 4th overall.

The 1960 edition of the Cuba GP was not a Formula Libre event.

all research: Willem Oosthoek

[Frank S]

Lev Davidovich Bronshtein, better known as Leon Trotsky formulated the concept of "perpetual revolution" (shortly before he got an ice-pick, which made his ears burn). The Institutional Revolutionary Party has ruled in Mexico for most of the last 70 years.

Harsh news for the present President ( can you say "PAN"? )

[Jack-the-Lad]

Some years ago I was thrilled to meet Fidel Castro

Really? I would have expected a rather different emotion in the presence of a tyrant.

Edited by Jack-the-Lad, 15 March 2011 - 00:39.

[JacnGille]

Northpole ;-)

There is no "ground" at the North Pole, just ice.

[Arjan de Roos]

There is no "ground" at the North Pole, just ice.

First artificial rain, then ice in each corner. Just in line!

[Giraffe]

Really? I would have expected a rather different emotion in the presence of a tyrant.

Why? I'd also have been fascinated to meet Adolf Hitler (but I'd probably have poked him in the eye though..... )

[Doug Nye]

And as an associated interest, we also came across this lot - very reminiscent of Barry in 1969-70...











They would all have been around nearby during the Cuban GP races...more ideas for a model diorama?

All Photos strictly Copyright: The GP Library

DCN

[Amphicar]

And as an associated interest, we also came across this lot - very reminiscent of Barry in 1969-70...




They would all have been around nearby during the Cuban GP races...more ideas for a model diorama?

All Photos strictly Copyright: The GP Library

DCN

or a new challenge for Pete Waterman?

[sbrinley]

Sbrinley : You have just a few errors in your appraisal of the various races you have listed in post 24.

Portago did not drop out in 1957 with a blown engine, he finished 3rd overall. He did not lead the Mille Miglia in 1957 when he crashed, he was running 4th overall.

The 1960 edition of the Cuba GP was not a Formula Libre event.

all research: Willem Oosthoek

Thanks for the information; my recall was that Portago did indeed finish the '57 race, but the sources on the Web that I consulted noted he dropped out with a blown engine on the 68th lap--this from an eyewitness. I stand corrected on the position Portage held in the Mille Miglia when he crashed. What I quoted has become part of the legend, evidently. As to the Formula Libre event, I noted that "I believe.." It may have been another year; I remember it being so reported in either Road & Track or Sports Cars Illustrated.

[Peter Darley]

And as an associated interest, we also came across this lot - very reminiscent of Barry in 1969-70...




They would all have been around nearby during the Cuban GP races...more ideas for a model diorama?

All Photos strictly Copyright: The GP Library

DCN

From the gauge width, I reckon they were used to transport sugar cane from the fields.

[bradbury west]

This was one of the engines on the former sugar plantation which we visited. If the engines were imported the tracks may have been built to suit them

Click image for larger size photo.
Roger Lund. photo copyright

[Sharman]

We used to keep sheep at the Bellhouse Inn, for tax purposes as well as entertainment for our guests....

Among other things it is called "animal husbandry"

[Doug Nye]

Big muthas weren't they? Must have been capable of hauling a tremendous tonnage at a time.

DCN