39 replies to this topic

[simonlewisbooks]

Like a lot of people involved in motor sport I have friends and acquaintances in Japan and it pains me to see the on-going devastation that has engulfed so many of it's towns and cities over the last few days.

I don't usually watch 'the news' at weekends so only really got an idea of just how bad the situation is by watching lunchtime coverage today.

I'm sure you'll all join me in expressing our shock and concern and offering our heart-felt best wishes to all those involved.

[alfredaustria]

Totally agreed, Simon. I can't imagine that any races could take place there this year, or even the the Japanese Grand Prix.

[kayemod]

I'm sure you'll all join me in expressing our shock and concern and offering our heart-felt best wishes to all those involved.

Yes indeed, the scenes of devastation are almost beyond our comprehension, but knowing the Japanese and their can-do attitude, I bet they'll have most of their infrastructure up and running again in less than a tenth of the time it would take here.

Some of the media reporting has been a bit sad though, every time the BBC cover the story, they feel they have to begin by showing us where Japan is on the globe, and they unfailingly mis-pronounce almost every place name, and it isn't just the TV. Each Saturday I quickly scan The Times Sports supplement for any mention of motor racing, usually I'm disappointed, so that's the first bit of the paper to head for recycling, but last Saturday, in the wake of one of the most terrible events that's ever befallen the human race, they did have one F1-ish mention, though only about the fact that Jensen Button had difficulty phoning his Japanese girlfriend, but was eventually able to get in touch through Twitter. Sadly though, no information on what progress McLaren are making in sorting out the MP4 26.

[Hieronymus]

If there is one nation that will stand up from the ashes, it will be Japan!

[Doug Nye]

Absolutely - a people impressive for their discipline and cohesion, and in private surprisingly emotional. The proportions of this disaster border upon the unimaginable, yet they will certainly adapt, endure, and overcome. This just adds, however, further difficulty to what is right now an extremely unstable world.

DCN

[f1steveuk]

A lot of the chaps I used to work with at FOM married or simply moved to Japan, and as yet, I have heard nothing.

I was stunned by the images on the news, but Japan has a very fatalistic view, as I found out myself. The first time I was in Osaka, two weeks before the big quake that damaged Kobe. The hotel started to shake, all my stuff fell on the floor, and the bed moved across the room. It took me thirty long seconds to realise what was happening, but once it had stopped, after some five minutes, for some reason I thought I should go to reception. I was waved away with two words, "tremor, tiny", he didn't even flintch from his paperwork, so I went and straightened my room. The second time was during timed practise at Suzuka. As it started. I remembered the feeling and instructed my department to stay put, but nearly everyone in the Digital village (or Bakersville as it was called) ran out, except the Japanese chaps, who just held on and commented that the 1.5 tremor had shown up on Frentzen's telmetry, and thought it was hillarious everyone had run off.

I suspect the feeling was much the same as this latest 'quake hit, I just hope they did as much as they could to survive, the numbers coming out beggar belief.

[Allen Brown]

I have been staggered by the pictures but also hugely impressed by the level of organisation demonstrated in the rescue operation and the calm attitude of the people in the middle of it.

What a striking difference to what happened after Hurricane Katrina.

[kayemod]

What a striking difference to what happened after Hurricane Katrina.

The damage from Katrina is still far from sorted six years later, many thousands in Louisiana and Mississippi are still housed in temporary accommodation even today, and much of New Orleans has still to be rebuilt. The damage caused in Japan is on a massively different scale, but they'll probably have trains running again in just a few weeks, on time as well.

[Giraffe]

I hope the many racing folk in Japan have escaped the devastation and whilst pretty meaningless in the greater scheme of things, the many historic cars that reside there and their owners have come to no harm. Katsu Kubota and his family immediately spring to mind, along with Abba Kogan who whilst no longer a resident, grew up and has family and business interests in Japan.

[E1pix]

I have been so impressed with the clear resolve and grace the Japanese culture has shown in this worst of scenarios.

Not a single sign of desperate action, nor crime, not even a sign of patience lost.... none of it. I watch them patiently standing in line, for food and water they desperately need, and all I see is calm resolve and mutual respect.

Amazing. And Yes, I agree that if any culture can get through this, it's them.

Blessings to them all.

[delta44]

I have been e mailing one of our FJ drivers Y Baba but no reply as yet. He is a doctor so I just hope he has been too busy to reply but we are waiting anxiously for a response.

[beighes]

I have been staggered by the pictures but also hugely impressed by the level of organisation demonstrated in the rescue operation and the calm attitude of the people in the middle of it.

What a striking difference to what happened after Hurricane Katrina.

Allen...That was the subject of this morning's conversation. Mainly about no evidence of "looting" in the non-flooded areas.

[JacnGille]

I have been so impressed with the clear resolve and grace the Japanese culture has shown in this worst of scenarios.

Not a single sign of desperate action, nor crime, not even a sign of patience lost.... none of it. I watch them patiently standing in line, for food and water they desperately need, and all I see is calm resolve and mutual respect.

Amazing. And Yes, I agree that if any culture can get through this, it's them.

Blessings to them all.

Amen!

[RTH]

Probably the most destructive pictures on such a scale ever seen on news media. Truly terrible for the poor people there.They are remarkably resilient and resourceful hard working , no nonsense people, able to deal with such devastation repeatedly.

We have all probably witnessed how tough, strong, well developed and reliable Japanese cars are ... especially the engines. Of all people they know how to build in safety margin.

Now if the Japanese of all people cannot run safe nuclear power in the full knowledge that these episodes have been happening for hundreds of years in their country irrespective of the age of the plant , does not give you much confidence about safety in other countries not least our own.

[E1pix]

Now if the Japanese of all people cannot run safe nuclear power in the full knowledge that these episodes have been happening for hundreds of years in their country irrespective of the age of the plant , does not give you much confidence about safety in other countries not least our own.

You've said what I've been thinking.... scary indeed.

[Robin Fairservice]

You've said what I've been thinking.... scary indeed.

A JApanese Nuclear scientis was on TV over here and was asked about this. He said that they designed for the earthquake, but the severityTsunmai was what caused the damage.

[jj2728]

Thoughts and prayers are with the Japanese people and especially the brave and quite possibly doomed souls who are tying to contain the ongoing nightmare at the nuclear power plants.

[ronmac]

I read the recent comments about nuclear power stations..and was surprised to see a poll on computer ..nuclear power
stations in Australia Yes or No... (only 2 days after the Japanese earthquake) Results gave No..19.000 and Yes 17.000.....
Very close Quite surprising...My vote was ...Yes..

[E1pix]

I read the recent comments about nuclear power stations..and was surprised to see a poll on computer ..nuclear power
stations in Australia Yes or No... (only 2 days after the Japanese earthquake) Results gave No..19.000 and Yes 17.000.....
Very close Quite surprising...My vote was ...Yes..

Whatever it takes to move away from oil (imported especially!) and coal. Much at stake.

[D-Type]

If you think honestly about it, there isn't really a realistic alternative to nuclear power ecept for the few fortunate countries with abundant oil or hydro-electric potential.

[E1pix]

If you think honestly about it, there isn't really a realistic alternative to nuclear power ecept for the few fortunate countries with abundant oil or hydro-electric potential.

At least none that have been properly funded and developed yet....

But as of right now, you're spot on — and society's missed several boats before now.

[Paul Parker]

At least none that have been properly funded and developed yet....

But as of right now, you're spot on — and society's missed several boats before now.

In my opinion.

Huge deposits of coal are left in the ground, a vast resort that is being ignored. Modern technology makes the mining of this ready resource of energy more economically, viable and safer and has lessened the environmental impact. It could also provide much needed employment, However this is not politically expedient due to the political machinations and vested interests in promoting inefficient, uber expensive wind and solar power that has to be heavily subsidised by guess who. This of course promoted by the spurious CO2 and global warming paranoia that masks a gigantic tax scam and further vested interests.

Who is aware of the following:

THE Spanish wife of UK Deputy PM Nick Clegg has swept up a new job – working for the world’s largest builder of wind farms.
Miriam Gonzalez Durantez, from Valladolid, has assumed the role of independent advisor to Acciona, based in Madrid.
Describing itself as a world leader in renewable energy, infrastructure projects and water management, Acciona has already built four farms in the UK.

Meanwhile the Japanese were warned a while ago about the vulnerability of these nuclear installations that were built right on the coastline, to just such a natural disaster. No doubt those involved considered it too expensive to build suitable protection or have it sited further inland.

[kayemod]

Meanwhile the Japanese were warned a while ago about the vulnerability of these nuclear installations that were built right on the coastline, to just such a natural disaster. No doubt those involved considered it too expensive to build suitable protection or have it sited further inland.

Not all that easy though, nuclear plants need vast quantities of cooling water, so there isn't much alternative to a coastal situation. Additionally, as anyone who has ever visited Japan will know, that country is essentially four mountainous islands with a coastline, that's the reason for the terrible loss of life, most of Japan's population lives by the sea. As I think someone said earlier, those who designed the nuclear installations were fully aware of the earthquake danger, living in Japan, how could they not be, but it was the scale of the tidal wave that did most of the damage, some events you just can't plan for.

[Doug Nye]

Well you can plan for them, but the likelihood of X happening is considered so unlikely that cost/effect takes priority. I must say that relative to the considered views offered by the majority of nuclear experts that I have seen or heard on the subject of Fukushima-Daiichi, the media emphasis reflects more of the witchcraft prejudices of so many amongst the public...who in truth know (and are told, or are capable of truly understanding) sweet FA.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 16 March 2011 - 09:48.

[David McKinney]

Meanwhile the Japanese were warned a while ago about the vulnerability of these nuclear installations that were built right on the coastline, to just such a natural disaster. No doubt those involved considered it too expensive to build suitable protection or have it sited further inland.

Apparently they did do the upgrade work - right up to the standard required to guard against a (very rare) Scale 7 Quake. No-one told them there was going to be an 8.9 (or whatever it was). Or an associated tsunami

[kayemod]

UK Elf 'n Safety has a very long reach.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12756366

This is beyond irony, let's hope that Japanese rescue efforts aren't being similarly hindered by red tape.

[kayemod]

Hampshire Fire & Rescue have just sent a team to Japan to help with rescue efforts.

http://www.dailymail...ty-reasons.html

So that's alright then...

[Paul Parker]

Not all that easy though, nuclear plants need vast quantities of cooling water, so there isn't much alternative to a coastal situation. Additionally, as anyone who has ever visited Japan will know, that country is essentially four mountainous islands with a coastline, that's the reason for the terrible loss of life, most of Japan's population lives by the sea. As I think someone said earlier, those who designed the nuclear installations were fully aware of the earthquake danger, living in Japan, how could they not be, but it was the scale of the tidal wave that did most of the damage, some events you just can't plan for.

Nevertheless these things do happen and the obvious and unavoidable problem with nuclear power is that if anything like this occurs the consequences are off the scale. I bet they wished they had put the possibility of such a mega earthquake (which had been predicted I believe) at the top of their priorities list now.

Japan is literally earthquake central. "Apparently they did do the upgrade work - right up to the standard required to guard against a (very rare) Scale 7 Quake. No-one told them there was going to be an 8.9 (or whatever it was). Or an associated tsunami." Yes David but then they should have, could have assumed the worst when dealing with such a potentially dangerous source of energy, especially as they were building literally on the shoreline due to geographical features and offshore quakes cause tsunamis as even I know. They took a statistical risk apparently, relying upon a Richter magnitude scale 7 quake maximum.

As for "the media emphasis reflects more of the witchcraft prejudices of so many amongst the public...who in truth know (and are told, or are capable of truly understanding) sweet FA" very true Doug but then the truth about anything like this is never openly discussed or made available to the general public either by the media or the politicos. Listening to the obsfucation and waffle from various talking heads about what, why and where and the official line for several days, was to hear everything but the reality. What did the authorities suggest to those outside of, was it, the 12 mile zone? Stay indoors, yeah right. Japan is supposedly at the forefront of such technology, so what of the others dotted around the globe, are any more of these at risk of nature's tantrums or mankind's malevolence.

Poor Japan and I dread to think about the likely health problems this could cause for decades hence, never mind the rest of the horrors.

[scheivlak]

Apparently they did do the upgrade work - right up to the standard required to guard against a (very rare) Scale 7 Quake. No-one told them there was going to be an 8.9 (or whatever it was). Or an associated tsunami

A scale 7 quake is not rare at all in Japan (remember Kobe?). With nuclear plants in service for at least 40 odd years it was simply bound to happen sooner or later.
And, well, they did not invented the word tsunami for nothing - and the combination of earthquake and tsunami is not that far-fetched.

[Jimisgod]

Apparently they did do the upgrade work - right up to the standard required to guard against a (very rare) Scale 7 Quake. No-one told them there was going to be an 8.9 (or whatever it was). Or an associated tsunami

But it is common knowledge in seismic circles that the subduction zone around the Philippine plate has 8+ quakes every century or so; that is right by the current problem stations too.

How are the MotoGP teams and WSBK teams holding up, surely this will set the likes of Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda and Kawasaki back as the workers should be time off to recover and look for family.

@ scheivlak, strangely the Kobe quake was below 7 on the moment magnitude scale. That doesn't matter when its focus is shallow or on reclaimed land though.

Edited by Jimisgod, 16 March 2011 - 17:30.

[E1pix]

Huge deposits of coal are left in the ground, a vast resort that is being ignored. Modern technology makes the mining of this ready resource of energy more economically, viable and safer and has lessened the environmental impact.

Provided we all think this is just fine:
http://www.ohvec.org...op_removal/007/

[Alfie]

Poor Japan and I dread to think about the likely health problems this could cause for decades hence, never mind the rest of the horrors.

Of course you might just choose to overlook the myriad health problems that have been caused by the burning of the main fossil fuels over the last 200 odd years - without mentioning all those killed whilst developing those technologies. Then it all looks a bit better doesn't it? Or does it?

All these technologies start out by incurring such issues that with all the best efforts fail to reflect all the "what-if" scenarios that might be dreamed up.

Not the time or place methinks for this particular debate.

[Allen Brown]

UK Elf 'n Safety has a very long reach.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12756366

This is beyond irony, let's hope that Japanese rescue efforts aren't being similarly hindered by red tape.

I read the article but I can't see what it's got to do with "Elf 'n Safety". It sounds like just bureaucratic incompetence.

[Raido]

Not all that easy though, nuclear plants need vast quantities of cooling water, so there isn't much alternative to a coastal situation. Additionally, as anyone who has ever visited Japan will know, that country is essentially four mountainous islands with a coastline,

Well, except the Kanto plain of course. You notice it pretty well if you come into Tokyo by train: compared to Osaka/Kyoto and most other regions, Tokyo is pretty much flat (even more noticeable on pre-1900 photographs). That's largely why it was built there. Not that it's the be-all and end-all when an 8+ quake hits, unfortunately...

Nevertheless these things do happen and the obvious and unavoidable problem with nuclear power is that if anything like this occurs the consequences are off the scale. I bet they wished they had put the possibility of such a mega earthquake (which had been predicted I believe) at the top of their priorities list now.

Quite. I suppose they did include such possibilities in their pre-planning stages though.
But when push comes to shove and expenditure cost raises its head, such extra measures are usually axed. Then what remains is just planned protection agains the 'normal' catastrophes, like a 7-scale quake, top of the line for a 'regular' one in Japan. The rest, for the financiers, is then just 'Sho ga nai na' ('Can't be helped, eh') as the Japanese say. And in the case of a failure, society is left to carry the burden.

that's the reason for the terrible loss of life, most of Japan's population lives by the sea. As I think someone said earlier, those who designed the nuclear installations were fully aware of the earthquake danger, living in Japan, how could they not be, but it was the scale of the tidal wave that did most of the damage, some events you just can't plan for.

Yep. And that unavoidable not-being-able-to-plan-for-factor makes nuclear fission plants in or near populated areas always an inherently bad idea.
Feasible in the middle of the Sahara or Gobi desert, possibly (if you throw enough extra $$ at it); not so good in residential areas. Nuclear fusion could be a workable solution, but that's probably still a while away.

If even the Japanese can't do this safely, nobody can do it safely, imho. In the cold hard light of reality, with three major nuclear accidents in 30 years, it's now obvious that those projected fairy tale 'one-in-a-million-years-chance' of serious mishaps mean zilch.

Edited by Raido, 16 March 2011 - 21:11.

[E1pix]

Not the time or place methinks for this particular debate.

You're correct.... apologies.

[Paul Parker]

Provided we all think this is just fine:
http://www.ohvec.org...op_removal/007/

Of course I don't think this is just fine, but some might think that this is preferable to the possible, perhaps even probable consequences of the nuclear alternative as witnessed by the current situation in Japan.

There needs to be some common sense and care taken where others are concerned but presumably your illustrations are worst case scenarios, the most accessible areas, the diktats of accountants and profit margins etc. I was thinking mainly of Britain in this respect where mining areas were/are already established but going to waste. The same is surely true elsewhere but the despoilation of the natural environment you have given is shocking and unacceptable and I sympathise with your sentiments.

In general terms the problems originate with governmental arrogance, incompetence, corruption (both in the public and private sectors) and mismanagement of resources.

Sadly whatever the solution(s) somebody will suffer.

[kayemod]

I read the article but I can't see what it's got to do with "Elf 'n Safety". It sounds like just bureaucratic incompetence.

You're absolutely right, but what that link directs you to now is not the story that first appeared, they've completely re-written it, originally it was all about Elf 'n Safety, red tape was hardly mentioned at all, it was all about 'Safety Considerations'..

[D-Type]

Can I reiterate the point that Alfie made:

Not the time or place methinks for this particular debate.

Let's top and think for a minute: Some of the top engineers in one of the most technologically advanced nations in the world are applying their collective knowledge to preventing a further catastrophe occurring. Let's hope they succeed.

Once that battle is won, we can carry on with the debate about energy policy and tolerable risk levels, or continue to express our frustration at the limited imagination of those with what we perceive asthe "Elf 'n Safety" mentality or at bureaucratic incompetence.

But not here or now!

[RStock]

I was just about to turn in for the night when I switched to CNN just as the earthquake had struck. I sat in stunned amazement watching the Tsunami. It's the most terribly awesome thing I have ever seen. The damn thing just kept going and going. It's the sort of thing that reminds you how precious life is and how small and insignificant we are against the earth's rage. I could only think, "God help the people in front of that thing."


I hope this isn't seen as inappropriate, but I thought it was a very powerful image and a reminder of the strength and resiliency of the Japanese people.

Top photo from this week, bottom photo from 1945

Edited by REDARMYSOJA, 17 March 2011 - 02:57.

[E1pix]

I was just about to turn in for the night when I switched to CNN just as the earthquake had struck. I sat in stunned amazement watching the Tsunami. It's the most terribly awesome thing I have ever seen. The damn thing just kept going and going. It's the sort of thing that reminds you how precious life is and how small and insignificant we are against the earth's rage. I could only think, "God help the people in front of that thing."


I hope this isn't seen as inappropriate, but I thought it was a very powerful image and a reminder of the strength and resiliency of the Japanese people.

Top photo from this week, bottom photo from 1945

Oh, Dear.

All we can do is pray for them, help them in every way possible, and hope beyond hope that the nuclear threat gets under control.