Jump to content


Photo

Be warned: This thread is not for the faint of heart!


  • Please log in to reply
33 replies to this topic

#1 bannishg

bannishg
  • New Member

  • 10 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 15 March 2011 - 13:22

There are probably at least 5 or so other threads on the topic, but the distinguishing feature of this one will be that I'll be posting scans of the actual advertisements! Perusing through the ads of decades-old back issues and considering the asking figures is something I cannot get enough of! I always am in the process of buying old copies of R&T, Hemmings, AutoWeek etc... on ebay for this reason! Any imput at all, stories or scans, are greatly appreciated!!!

Ads will be posted later today.

GB

Advertisement

#2 bannishg

bannishg
  • New Member

  • 10 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 15 March 2011 - 15:10

Here is the first batch, The Ferrari Market in the 1960's:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

#3 bannishg

bannishg
  • New Member

  • 10 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 15 March 2011 - 15:16

Part 2: These ones are just unreal!!!

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

#4 Rob Miller

Rob Miller
  • Member

  • 377 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 15 March 2011 - 16:51

The prices need to adjusted by the Consumer Price Index, ie how much $1000 is worth today.

1950 - $8910

1955 - $8010

1960 - $7240

1965 - $6800

1970 - $5520



#5 RTH

RTH
  • Member

  • 6,064 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 15 March 2011 - 16:57

Question is ... were they too cheap then, or too expensive now ?

#6 jcbc3

jcbc3
  • RC Forum Host

  • 12,878 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 15 March 2011 - 17:16

So that's a GTO for approx. USD 47,000 in present day value.

In May 2010, BBC Radio 2 DJ Chris Evans bought chassis number 4675 GT for £12 million.

Or looked at in another way. What sportscar can you get for under USD 50,000 today in USA (less options)?
Chevrolet Camaro up to USD 39,650
Nissan 37Z up to USD 41,100
Infiniti G37 between usd 35,400 and 57,250
Audi S4 USD 47,100
Porsche Boxter between USD 48,100 and 61,800
Chevrolet Corvette between between 48,950 and 109,800

Everything else on cars.com listed as sportscars starts at a higher price.

So to answer your question RTH....the GTO in the ad is too cheap. All IMHO, of course.


#7 RobertE

RobertE
  • Member

  • 292 posts
  • Joined: August 07

Posted 15 March 2011 - 17:19

^^^
What an appropriate response! But inflation is selective. I wish I could say: "But they aren't making any more of them..."

But "they" are...

Hill St. Blues: "Let's be careful out there..."

#8 David Birchall

David Birchall
  • Member

  • 3,291 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 15 March 2011 - 17:19

Interesting! Steve Earl-Monterey Historics organizer- is the listed seller of the "250 TR". Steve was also the owner of the GTO #3705 that he sold in the early eighties for the stunning (at the time) sum of $250,000!

#9 bannishg

bannishg
  • New Member

  • 10 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 15 March 2011 - 19:09

Here are some more interesting adverts:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

#10 bannishg

bannishg
  • New Member

  • 10 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 15 March 2011 - 19:29

Allright, I know I'm probably overdoing it, but I want to cover every facet of vintage cars. These are the last ads for today.

GB

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

#11 E1pix

E1pix
  • Member

  • 23,429 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 15 March 2011 - 19:52

My stomach hurts.

#12 Robin Fairservice

Robin Fairservice
  • Member

  • 599 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 15 March 2011 - 20:12

To try and put inflation in perspective. In 1960 upon graduation as an Engineer, I joined a Consulting Engineer and was paid £550 per year. This is the same salary that Keith Duckworth received from Lotus the year before as a graduate Engineer. In 1962 we bought a used 1960 Mini for about £600 on HP. In March 1963 we bought a 3 bedroom semi detached house in Crawley, Sussex for £3600 and had a struggle to find the £360 deposit. My salary was then £1000 per year, but I only qualified for a mortgage because I had professional employment and my salary ought to increase! All of those exotic cars at seemingly cheap prices were out of my reach.
By the way, I remember reading the Motor Sport Classified adverts for that period and could have bought a pre war Bentley for the price of my Mini, but it wasn't practicable for us, although a colleague, who was a batchelor, did buy a beautiful 1930's Bentley for what we paid for a Mini.

#13 David Birchall

David Birchall
  • Member

  • 3,291 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 15 March 2011 - 22:56

In 1979 while working in a friend's shop here in Vancouver I had the following experience:
A hippy looking guy walked in, took a look around the shop and announced that he had two Porsche 906s and a 907. "Right" I thought, "and I've got a GTO outside".
"Would you like to see them" he asked. We go out to our cars, I get into my race prepped Healey 3000 (Well, it were a GTO to me) and he gets into a 2.7 RS Carrera-first hint.
We drive out to his home in West Vancouver and in his garage are two 906s sitting side by side and on a trestle across their noses is a 907!
Long story short, six months later he leaves his wife and offers the two 906s to my friend and I. For twenty five thousand dollars. Friend says "how can I raise that much?". I went to the bank, got on my knees and five minutes later had a commitment for $25 grand. I go back to the shop, tell my friend and he says "Well if you can raise $25 grand so can I!"
And unfortunately he did and shut me out of the deal. This was 1979. It was a good time for buying.

Edited by David Birchall, 15 March 2011 - 23:00.


#14 Bob Riebe

Bob Riebe
  • Member

  • 3,010 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 16 March 2011 - 04:29

I am not going to do the hassle to copy it, but I still have the 1969 Hot Rod where a Cobara Coupe is for sale for 9,000 dollars by a gas station chain owner in ND. He used to to go from station to station quite quickly.

#15 E1pix

E1pix
  • Member

  • 23,429 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 16 March 2011 - 04:57

In 1970, my Dad bought a "mint" '69 GT500 Shelby Mustang with 10,000 miles on it.... for $2,050.

It was bought from a hotshot in his late 20s, and a few thousand miles later the motor blew.

Even with the rebuild, an absolute steal. My Dad drove it for 25 years.

#16 RTH

RTH
  • Member

  • 6,064 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 16 March 2011 - 07:12

Well, who knows, we have seen car values in the UK at least drop before back in late 80s / early 90s.
House prices in UK are currently falling. House prices in USA and Eire have reduced substantially over the last couple of years, likewise asset values in Japan over a much longer period.
Enormous public spending cutbacks spread over many years to come, rising unemployment ,pay cuts, more costly mortgages with much higher deposits required, then interest rates about to move upwards from 2 years of emergency low rates of just 0.5%.Not a good outlook, for most people.

We can see the top 1% of people are richer than they have ever been before and disparity wider than ever (ultra high pay and bonuses with higher rate income tax reduced here by John Major from 60 % to 40% now 15 years ago), but for the wider population affordability will become increasingly difficult in the near future.
So maybe not the very top end cars... but below that prices may fall back somewhat from here ?

#17 E1pix

E1pix
  • Member

  • 23,429 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 16 March 2011 - 08:00

Well, who knows, we have seen car values in the UK at least drop before back in late 80s / early 90s.
House prices in UK are currently falling. House prices in USA and Eire have reduced substantially over the last couple of years, likewise asset values in Japan over a much longer period.
Enormous public spending cutbacks spread over many years to come, rising unemployment ,pay cuts, more costly mortgages with much higher deposits required, then interest rates about to move upwards from 2 years of emergency low rates of just 0.5%.Not a good outlook, for most people.

We can see the top 1% of people are richer than they have ever been before and disparity wider than ever (ultra high pay and bonuses with higher rate income tax reduced here by John Major from 60 % to 40% now 15 years ago), but for the wider population affordability will become increasingly difficult in the near future.
So maybe not the very top end cars... but below that prices may fall back somewhat from here ?


I have thought for at least a decade that things were not worth anything near what they were selling for — particularly homes, land, cars, et al.

It also all seemed rather unsustainable. Around 1970, people making a decent salary could buy a decent home for one- to two-year's salary. Here in the States, it's more like five-year's salary now. It all seemed pretty obvious that it couldn't last.

I believe what we're seeing is what happened in the .com boom-bust.... pricing based on numbers, but not fact. I'm no economist, but wonder if this is commonplace whenever there's a boom period, as we saw in the 1990s.

All those opinions written, I'd bet we're entering a much cheaper period to buy the mid-range collector cars....

#18 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 7,316 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 16 March 2011 - 08:42

Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2011-03-16

:cry:

#19 xj13v12

xj13v12
  • Member

  • 265 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 16 March 2011 - 10:02


An interesting topic guided by one's pecadillos. I well remember telling a car restorer of some note that he should forget about working on Can-am cars and invent a time machine. I had just read an ad that said a brand new S Type Jag was some $500 more expensive than a lightly used XKSS at just $5,500!!!!! Think upon that! Apply current market value if you dare. My calculator ran out of zeros as a percentage differential between them. I also have difficulty grasping the concept of the indexation over time. Will some of these cars be worth tens of millions?? No one thought they would be worth hundreds of thousand. I am told that a classic road or race car usually doubles in value every 7 years. In the longer term that would depend on when you bought it but buying after a market crash would be a good start. It also relies upon ascertaining what constitutes a classic car or important race car (of the future). When the T70 was near worthless that might have been based on the fact that its performance was on paper outshone by Ferrari and Porsche. In more recent times that may not be a good guide as technology has interfered greatly with the fundamentals. Who could pick a classic from today's cars road or track???
OK. Who was able to pick a current classic at the time? 1970 - Clapped out Aston DB4 anyone?

Advertisement

#20 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 80,052 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 16 March 2011 - 10:06

I personally lusted for a Gullwing 300SL...

For years I saw the prices in Road & Track, and they were only attainable (for me) with a lottery win. But they were attainable. Not any more, however.

#21 Giraffe

Giraffe
  • Member

  • 7,316 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 16 March 2011 - 10:20

The consumer items of today are the collectors items of tomorrow as they are often neglected or discarded and thus become scarce.

#22 bannishg

bannishg
  • New Member

  • 10 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 16 March 2011 - 14:31

I received a PM requesting more old Ferrari adverts, and here they are. Please note that I wasn't even alive when most of these ads were being printed, so I guess that makes my fascination with the past vintage car market(s) rather unfitting for the circumstances. I don't know why I like the stuff I like, I guess I just like the stuff I like. :drunk:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

#23 bannishg

bannishg
  • New Member

  • 10 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 16 March 2011 - 14:37

I am not going to do the hassle to copy it, but I still have the 1969 Hot Rod where a Cobara Coupe is for sale for 9,000 dollars by a gas station chain owner in ND. He used to to go from station to station quite quickly.



What month was the issue dated for?

Greg

#24 David Birchall

David Birchall
  • Member

  • 3,291 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 16 March 2011 - 15:23

Lets keep the prices/dates in perspective. In 1974 you could buy a new 240Z for $5000 (?) or a new VW Beetle for $2500. I was obsessed with getting a Healey 3000 and a really good one in Vancouver was $4000-I couldn't afford it. A racing Cobra - CSX2151 the Hairy Canary- was for sale for $6500 in North Vancouver. Couldn't afford that either. But a friend could and bought it. Another friend in Seattle bought a Ferrari 410-the Collins Mille Miglia car-for $4000...

#25 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 16 March 2011 - 16:33

Allright, I know I'm probably overdoing it, but I want to cover every facet of vintage cars

I'm still waiting for proper racing cars to be included in your "every facet" - you know, the things without roofs or doors :)


#26 bannishg

bannishg
  • New Member

  • 10 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 16 March 2011 - 16:58

I'm still waiting for proper racing cars to be included in your "every facet" - you know, the things without roofs or doors :)


I haven't scanned such ads yet, But I got 'em! I'll get to scannin 'em in the next few days, and I'll post them. Any makes/models in particular?

Greg

#27 John Brundage

John Brundage
  • Member

  • 309 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 16 March 2011 - 19:05

How about a follow up--"where are all these now?"

#28 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 25,898 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 16 March 2011 - 19:34

Here are some more interesting adverts:

Posted Image

Well, I called Slough 27227 and said that I'd be right over with the cash. But they were quite abusive...... :stoned:

#29 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 16 March 2011 - 23:24

I haven't scanned such ads yet, But I got 'em! I'll get to scannin 'em in the next few days, and I'll post them. Any makes/models in particular?

Greg

Pre-war GP cars and voiturettes, postwar F1, F2, FJ...


#30 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Moderator

  • 24,592 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 17 March 2011 - 00:04

From Motor 6-Sep-38:

Posted Image Posted Image


#31 Jack-the-Lad

Jack-the-Lad
  • Member

  • 2,465 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 17 March 2011 - 00:37

Let's call some of those numbers and tell them we're interested in the cars!

Jack

#32 bannishg

bannishg
  • New Member

  • 10 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 17 March 2011 - 13:25

From Motor 6-Sep-38:

Posted Image Posted Image

These are amazing!

The cars would remain that cheap, at least in Europe, until the mid '50s.

I have another ad from Motor somewhere, dated April 1955 (I want to say?), offering another similar Mercedes, a 1930 SS 38/250, for £ 380, but the exchange rate had shifted more in America's favor at that time.

In fact, my favorite bargain transaction took place in the Fall of 1950. This was Cunningham's acquisition of Royales 41.141 and 41.150 from the Bugatti family in France. Both of the cars were in superb untouched condition. Articles from around the time the Dominos guy acquired one of them for $8.1 million U.S. (late 1986/early 87) mention that the Bugatti family was willing to part with the pair for an amount roughly near$2600 US . This would be roughly $23,000 today for BOTH cars! In the end, Cunningham ended up paying the full price, and even threw in a few brand new refridgerators, perhaps as a goodwill gesture? France had still not yet recovered from their war wounds at that point, and perhaps new appliances were hard to come by.

There you have it. You could have bought the very car that Monaghan paid $8.1 Mil for in 1986 for only $1,300 in 1950. Yes, 41.121 did sell for only $400 in 1946, but at the time the car was far from driveable.

By the way, I'll have those new ads posted soon.

Greg

Edited by bannishg, 17 March 2011 - 13:25.


#33 mikeC

mikeC
  • Member

  • 1,059 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 17 March 2011 - 16:33

1935 Autocar magazine: a three year old ex-Works rally car with major successes to its credit, for the price of two brand new Austin Sevens!

Two brand new minis these days, say £18-20,000? What price a 3 year old rally-winning car...?

Posted Image

#34 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 11,038 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 18 March 2011 - 07:41

Lots of very tasty stuff above to suit any taste.
As a long time car dealer and repairer prices tend to go in cycles. Older cars become near worthless, a few years on their value starts to increase as collectors items. I wish that I had stashed a few Falcon GTs, Monaros, GTRs and XU1s away 10 years ago.Far better than real estate and more fun too!!
Looking through my 40 year collection of old motorsport magazines there is cars that have appreciated 1000% And lots at being more realistic at 200% GpC Commodores, Camaros, Falcons and too a lesser extent [now] RX7s in raceworthy condition for 10-15k. This was mid 80s were all they were good for was Sports Sedan and they were too heavy really
A few have survived largley intact though. The same with 5000s, mostly robbed for their running gear for Sports Sedan or sports car projects. And worth s**tloads now. Or old Elfin Sports Cars, real collectors items now. Though more of those survived more or les unmolested!!