19 replies to this topic

[t6dpilot]

First post here. Great site. I was actually directed here through a google search looking for internet information of my uncle's 70's Formula Atlantic career. I googled him to see what is stored in the web archives and that led me here. I am a former vintage racer having spent a bunch of years racing a Lotus 22 Formula Jr. I have always lusted after the mid 70's Formula Atlantic cars and vowed to own one someday. But not just any FA car...

You see, my uncle, Cliff Hansen, raced FA from 1974 through 1981 starting with a 1974 GRD FA car and following successive years with the March series of cars 75B through 79B. The final years he raced Ralt's RT-1 and RT-2 chassis if I remember correctly. He then made a one year attempt at F2 with the Trundle Racing Team running a BMW/March 822. I was a huge fan of Cliff as a kid and idolized the fact that he was that cool racer uncle from SoCal. He always had cool cars and an even cooler "career." I even got to see him race a few times at Road America and Long Beach Grand Prix. Ever since I got into racing back in the late 80's, it has been a desire of mine to locate one of Cliff's old cars.

Pretty hard to do, no? Yes, but... Back in the late 90's, I did locate his first two cars - a FB car and the GRD. The FB was not for sale and is still with that same owner. The GRD was amazingly for sale, but I was not in a financial position to make the deal. The car went off to Europe and I am on a luke warm trail to locate it again. So, I am revitalizing my search and will utilize all resources available to me - web, forums, phone, personal contacts, ect. With the advent of the internet, almost anything is possible, right?

What I am trying to locate are any of his March chassis and the Ralts. The Marches are 75B, 76B (#001), 77B, 78B, and 79B. The 78B and 79B chassis are rumored to have been sold to Mexico after the seasons ended. The 75B was sold to well known SoCal racer M. Downs and he does not remember who he sold it to (probably sometime in '76 or '77). Is there anyone here who can help me pick up cold trails on these cars? Or even point me in the right direction? I can add pics of some of the cars if that would help. Thanks a million!

Edited by t6dpilot, 18 March 2011 - 18:05.

[E1pix]

I liked your Uncle, watching him at several events. My impression was always that with more funds he'd have taken victories and moved up the ladder like his contemporaries. Excellent driver, indeed!

Can't help with your search, but Good Luck in that.... I hope you get to revive and race one of his cars!

Edited by E1pix, 18 March 2011 - 22:54.

[Gary Jarlson]

I got to know Cliff in the early '70s and followed his career for a few years afterward (I wrote two stories about him for the LA Times.) He was a great guy and a dedicated racer.

As to the cars he raced, there were many. When I met him in '72 he running a Formula B LeGrand in Sothern California club races. He then moved up to the Atlantic series. An interesting aside to your search for his GRD: When he bought the car, it came with a complete spare rolling chassis. I don't know if he ever used the spare.

One funny incident I recall about Cliff involved the surplus highway post office truck he bought and converted to use as a transporter. He hooked a small travel trailer on the back to be used as housing for his mechanic. Apparently, Cliff didn't notice where the diesel exhaust exited on the truck, which was directly into the front of the trailer. When I stopped by his shop in Costa Mesa, there was the trailer completely coated in diesel residue, inside and out. His lady friend--Holly, I seem to recall--had spent the day day trying to clean up mess. As someone who prided herself on always being well turned out, she was very less than pleased to be covered from head to toe with all that soot.

I'm not sure if Cliff owned the March 75B he ran that season, but I do know that in '76 he was running as part of Doug Shierson's operation. The team used his shop as a base when they came to run on the West Coast. I also recall that when he ran a Ralt RT1 at Long Beach, he had a race-long battle with Bill Brack that kept us very entertained.

One last recollection: when I was going to Road Atlanta for the '74 Runoffs, I had no idea what gears my be required. The day before we were to leave, a large box arrived at the shop. Inside was probably every gearset ever made for that Hewland and a note from Cliff that said, "Just win, f***er!"

[Marc Sproule]

t6d:

I sent you an email several days ago. Lemme know if you didn't get it. I reckon I know the reason if you didn't. I'll pm you when you respond here or you can pm me.

ms

[TooTall]

I also remember Cliff from So Cal races. Didn't know him personally, more of a "friend of a friend" sort of thing. Here is a photo from Long Beach of, I believe, his 76B with the unusual nose. It was sort of a take on the then current Ferrari 312T full width front wing.



Cheers,
Kurt O.

[E1pix]

I also remember Cliff from So Cal races. Didn't know him personally, more of a "friend of a friend" sort of thing. Here is a photo from Long Beach of, I believe, his 76B with the unusual nose. It was sort of a take on the then current Ferrari 312T full width front wing.



Cheers,
Kurt O.

Cool shot, weird nose indeed.

If memory's working, I think he's following Rick Koehler, a Milwaukee driver in mostly club races, sponsored by Excalibur Cars of Milwaukee (a 30's Packard-style V8 roadster). Apologies if OT.

[Marc Sproule]

These are the pics of Cliff I've uploaded to flickr. Eventually there will be quite a few more. I know I have at least one of him working on the GRD.

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

E1: That is Rick Koehler in the 51 car.

Edited by Marc Sproule, 22 March 2011 - 03:44.

[E1pix]

These are the pics of Cliff I've uploaded to flickr. Eventually there will be quite a few more. I know I have at least one of him working on the GRD.

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

E1: That is Rick Koehler in the 51 car.

Great work of "the" days, the fabulous period I grew up in.

Each generation has their own.... And it's cool that we all have a generation — or a lifetime — to enjoy and recall here.

Edited by E1pix, 22 March 2011 - 05:13.

[Marc Sproule]

Kurt: Unless my aged brain is deceiving, I'm pretty sure that the snap of Cliff at LB is of him in his 78B, the same one in these snaps...

http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/


http://www.flickr.co...57623186773769/

[David McKinney]

Those later photos look pretty standard 78B - quite different from the car's LB bodywork

He must have decided it didn't work...

The other pic shows Koehler's car at the same meeting with its "proper" Excalibur nose


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[E1pix]

Those later photos look pretty standard 78B - quite different from the car's LB bodywork

He must have decided it didn't work...

The other pic shows Koehler's car at the same meeting with its "proper" Excalibur nose


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Marc, the Lime Rock photo matches my 1978 shot at Road America, but agreed David, the cockpit and pod vents don't match to the LB photo.... definitely different models/years/graphics.

It seems March offered (evolved into) a "winged" nose for Super Vee in 1981, could the LB shot be 1980 or 1981, Marc?

More comically for sure.... I now remember the March-Excalibur nose, that is too funny to see 30-some years on! I also seem to remember other Excalibur trim on Koehler's E. Broadley cars in the '70s.... on his T-340 FF or maybe his T-360 FB.... RA might recall.

Great stuff.

Edited by E1pix, 22 March 2011 - 07:49.

[Mallory Dan]

The nose on that March is very odd, I don't think its a 76B, more like a 78 car. The 75-76-77 cars didn't have wide pods, whereas the 78 FAt Marches onwards did. Odd that he tried the car, lets assume a 78B, with that nose when it was brand new?

[swede917]

Tim Fortner would be a good source for the information you are looking for, don't have a current contact for him. Tim worked with Cliff at a number of races. Tim prepares cars for vintage racing in the Bay Area, Steve Jennings would also be a good contact. I helped Tim at Long Beach in 1981 he was running Bob Earl and Cliff in Fortner / Lucini Motorsports Ralt RT1's. Cliff was taken out at the first corner that year. If I remember (and I may not) Bob Earl's car was sold after Long Beach to Ted James for his wife Nancy, it was later sold and converted to a 2L CanAm car. Tim ran Riley Hopkins in a few races later that year in the car Cliff drove at Long Beach, not sure what became of that car. Cliff was a very good driver, didn't he have a Cobra 427 he drove around Orange County.

This is Bob Earl's car LBGP 1981, Cliff's car had the same paint scheme just different sponsors.

[TooTall]

The nose on that March is very odd, I don't think its a 76B, more like a 78 car. The 75-76-77 cars didn't have wide pods, whereas the 78 FAt Marches onwards did. Odd that he tried the car, lets assume a 78B, with that nose when it was brand new?

I agree it most likely is a 78B. Don't know why I wrote 76B. I even looked up the race results and it was noted as a 78B. I must have gotten number addled as I have been working on my taxes.

Kurt O.

[Chris Townsend]

Tim Fortner would be a good source for the information you are looking for, don't have a current contact for him. Tim worked with Cliff at a number of races. Tim prepares cars for vintage racing in the Bay Area, Steve Jennings would also be a good contact. I helped Tim at Long Beach in 1981 he was running Bob Earl and Cliff in Fortner / Lucini Motorsports Ralt RT1's. Cliff was taken out at the first corner that year. If I remember (and I may not) Bob Earl's car was sold after Long Beach to Ted James for his wife Nancy, it was later sold and converted to a 2L CanAm car. Tim ran Riley Hopkins in a few races later that year in the car Cliff drove at Long Beach, not sure what became of that car. Cliff was a very good driver, didn't he have a Cobra 427 he drove around Orange County.

This is Bob Earl's car LBGP 1981, Cliff's car had the same paint scheme just different sponsors.

Swede, are you sure that it was the Earl car that went to Ted and Nancy?
I've been talking to Tim Fortner fairly regularly about these Ralts, which he "inherited" from a very dodgy outfit called BTG Racing, for which he was team boss. He can't remember which went where, just that two of these cars did go Ted and Nancy James and to Wyatt Gerrells. There was one other car, however, which was kept and driven by Riley Hopkins.
The James car did end up in Can Am and as a CSR with Dennis Brisken

[swede917]

Swede, are you sure that it was the Earl car that went to Ted and Nancy?
I've been talking to Tim Fortner fairly regularly about these Ralts, which he "inherited" from a very dodgy outfit called BTG Racing, for which he was team boss. He can't remember which went where, just that two of these cars did go Ted and Nancy James and to Wyatt Gerrells. There was one other car, however, which was kept and driven by Riley Hopkins.
The James car did end up in Can Am and as a CSR with Dennis Brisken

Chris,

That's how I remember it. (but remember I'm old ;)) We saw Nancy driving the car later that year and I believe Ted said it was the car Bob drove at Long Beach, Ted said it had been damaged at the back end at Long Beach, which Bob had gone into the barriers backwards at Long Beach. Cliffs car had front end damage.

Edited by swede917, 28 March 2011 - 19:40.

[t6dpilot]

Wow guys, thank you for all the great responses! I had no idea that anyone responded to my post as I did not get an email notifying me of such. Well, I have some updates, but first a response to your comments...

E1pix, you hit the nail right on the head about funding for Cliff. I just don't think he could put together enough funds to field a strong, all-out effort. Too bad because he was a good driver.


Gary Jarlson, great that you knew Cliff back in the day. The LeGrand is tucked away with the current owner. The GRD was sold to Cliff by Ken Swanson as a package - Formula Atlantic car and an F2 roller. The package was originally intended for driver Dave Walker. They sold off the roller never having been driven by Cliff. Funny story about the truck and trailer. He ended up marrying Holly! Regarding the LBGP, he raced the 78B there and had a battle for third I think with Bill. Now I am not sure whether he ran that event more than once, but by the photos posted, it looks like he might have. Can anyone answer that question for me?

Marc Sproule, I did get your email and responded - thank you. Must be an address problem. The flickr photos you posted links to are ones I have that Cliff must have purchased from you back then. He sent copies to my folks and I now have all of them that Cliff sent. The only one I have not seen was of Cliff in the 75B. I love that pic and that is the first I have seen of his 75B car. I would love to see more. Please stay in touch when you find more photos of him.

Swede917, I do not know the name Tim Fortner. Can you PM me his contact information please? I do have Steve Jennings number, but have not contacted him yet - will do that soon. I have been in contact with Ted and Nancy James just recently. They have come up in my notes a couple of times and I am hoping that they can help fill in some blanks for me over time. I sent them digital pics of some of the photos I have of Cliff. Hopefully, some of the liveries will stir up some memories. Yeah, Cliff has a Cobra, but not a 427. It is an early 260 and he has owned it quite a long time.

Chris, maybe you can send me Tim's contact information. I also wouldn't mind talking to him about the Ralt that went to Riley Hopkins. Are you thinking that this was Cliff's car? The latter years of his racing are a bit sketchy for me. After my original post, I did some more digging and I thought he stopped racing Atlantic in 1980 and went to Europe in 1981 for F3 and 1982 for F2. Maybe he came back to the states and ran only the one race in Long Beach as a rent a ride kind of deal? Helping me understand the latter years would be great.

Thanks all for the great pictures!! If you have any more, please post them as I would love to add to the collection.

[E1pix]

T6:

I just PMed you.

Thanks.

[Chris Townsend]

Wow guys, thank you for all the great responses! I had no idea that anyone responded to my post as I did not get an email notifying me of such. Well, I have some updates, but first a response to your comments...

E1pix, you hit the nail right on the head about funding for Cliff. I just don't think he could put together enough funds to field a strong, all-out effort. Too bad because he was a good driver.


Gary Jarlson, great that you knew Cliff back in the day. The LeGrand is tucked away with the current owner. The GRD was sold to Cliff by Ken Swanson as a package - Formula Atlantic car and an F2 roller. The package was originally intended for driver Dave Walker. They sold off the roller never having been driven by Cliff. Funny story about the truck and trailer. He ended up marrying Holly! Regarding the LBGP, he raced the 78B there and had a battle for third I think with Bill. Now I am not sure whether he ran that event more than once, but by the photos posted, it looks like he might have. Can anyone answer that question for me?

Marc Sproule, I did get your email and responded - thank you. Must be an address problem. The flickr photos you posted links to are ones I have that Cliff must have purchased from you back then. He sent copies to my folks and I now have all of them that Cliff sent. The only one I have not seen was of Cliff in the 75B. I love that pic and that is the first I have seen of his 75B car. I would love to see more. Please stay in touch when you find more photos of him.

Swede917, I do not know the name Tim Fortner. Can you PM me his contact information please? I do have Steve Jennings number, but have not contacted him yet - will do that soon. I have been in contact with Ted and Nancy James just recently. They have come up in my notes a couple of times and I am hoping that they can help fill in some blanks for me over time. I sent them digital pics of some of the photos I have of Cliff. Hopefully, some of the liveries will stir up some memories. Yeah, Cliff has a Cobra, but not a 427. It is an early 260 and he has owned it quite a long time.

Chris, maybe you can send me Tim's contact information. I also wouldn't mind talking to him about the Ralt that went to Riley Hopkins. Are you thinking that this was Cliff's car? The latter years of his racing are a bit sketchy for me. After my original post, I did some more digging and I thought he stopped racing Atlantic in 1980 and went to Europe in 1981 for F3 and 1982 for F2. Maybe he came back to the states and ran only the one race in Long Beach as a rent a ride kind of deal? Helping me understand the latter years would be great.

Thanks all for the great pictures!! If you have any more, please post them as I would love to add to the collection.

Would the GRD be the car that Dominic Dobson sold back to the UK?
If so, I know where it is...

Chris

[t6dpilot]

Would the GRD be the car that Dominic Dobson sold back to the UK?
If so, I know where it is...

Chris

Chris, I got your email - thanks. I am not sure if this is the car or not. When it was for sale in 1996 or so, Doug Mockett of SoCal owned it. It was yellow at the time with no sponsorship livery. The thing that makes this car unique is that it is the only GRD Formula Atlantic car that had an engine cover. Cliff had a custom cover designed and he claims it is the only GRD to have that done. This car had an engine cover. I spoke with Doug a few years ago and he stated that it went to Sweden. That is the last I have heard of it.

I will email you some pictures of the car as I saw it in the mid 90's.