23 replies to this topic

[Dhango]

I have a question fot the more experienced guys (I'm just an aficionado): We all know Brabhams and the naming system that Brabham and Tauranac used for their cars: BT1, BT2, BT3, etc. Now, the question (and excuse my poor english) ¿Was ever a Brabham BT43, or BT47 or any other letter/number after o before those? I saw a picture of a BT39, a car that never raced. it had a Weslake V12 engine and it was a mix between a BT34 and a BT38.

[RA Historian]

As I understand it, and please correct me if I am wrong, the BT-43 was a one-off F-5000, while the BT-47 was going to be the definitive Brabham F-1 fan car.
Tom

[Tim Murray]

Here's the thread on the BT43:

The strange tale of the F5000 Brabham BT43 (merged)

[Vitesse2]

Tim beat me by a couple of seconds

Racing history: http://www.oldracing...hp?CarID=BT43/1

Edited by Vitesse2, 20 March 2011 - 19:25.

[Vitesse2]

Brabham BT47

[Tim Murray]

Tim beat me by a couple of seconds

Brabham BT47

Honours now even, Richard.

[Spaceframe7]

I have a question fot the more experienced guys (I'm just an aficionado): We all know Brabhams and the naming system that Brabham and Tauranac used for their cars: BT1, BT2, BT3, etc. Now, the question (and excuse my poor english) ¿Was ever a Brabham BT43, or BT47 or any other letter/number after o before those? I saw a picture of a BT39, a car that never raced. it had a Weslake V12 engine and it was a mix between a BT34 and a BT38.

Hi Dhango. My sister worked for Brabham (after being purchased by BE - becoming Motor Racing Developments) in the early years in a secretarial position and sent a number of photos of the cars/drivers to me (abroad). I have 4 photos of the Brabham BT40 - not sure what formula it was driven in, but it was fitted with a Chevy-Cosworth 4 cylinder DOHC engine of possibly 2000 c.c.? I believe the Chevy - Cosworth engine was derived from the Chevrolet Vega (in North America) which wasn't the most popular car here, although supposedly quite a number were sold. Another photo shows Carlos Reutemann in a Brabham BT44 Formula 1 car (no date on the photo, but sponsored by Martini Racing). Another shows Nelson Piquet in the Brabham BMW BT52 Formula 1 car. I have a spare photo of the Brabham BT40 if you want it for interest sake (for free - postage at cost)? From what I have read, and not having sought inside information to back this up, Ron Tauranac worked for BE (Motor Racing Developments) after Jack Brabham sold the rights to manufacture using the Brabham name. Tauranac continued to design the cars using the BT letter/number scheme until he left the company. Motor Racing Developments carried on using the BT plus number designation when Gordon Murray came on board, and forever after. I'm sure books have been published with the history of Brabham/MRD, but unfortunately I don't have any in my miniscule library collection. Hope this helps?

[Dhango]

Hi Dhango. My sister worked for Brabham (after being purchased by BE - becoming Motor Racing Developments) in the early years in a secretarial position and sent a number of photos of the cars/drivers to me (abroad). I have 4 photos of the Brabham BT40 - not sure what formula it was driven in, but it was fitted with a Chevy-Cosworth 4 cylinder DOHC engine of possibly 2000 c.c.? I believe the Chevy - Cosworth engine was derived from the Chevrolet Vega (in North America) which wasn't the most popular car here, although supposedly quite a number were sold. Another photo shows Carlos Reutemann in a Brabham BT44 Formula 1 car (no date on the photo, but sponsored by Martini Racing). Another shows Nelson Piquet in the Brabham BMW BT52 Formula 1 car. I have a spare photo of the Brabham BT40 if you want it for interest sake (for free - postage at cost)? From what I have read, and not having sought inside information to back this up, Ron Tauranac worked for BE (Motor Racing Developments) after Jack Brabham sold the rights to manufacture using the Brabham name. Tauranac continued to design the cars using the BT letter/number scheme until he left the company. Motor Racing Developments carried on using the BT plus number designation when Gordon Murray came on board, and forever after. I'm sure books have been published with the history of Brabham/MRD, but unfortunately I don't have any in my miniscule library collection. Hope this helps?

Hi Spaceframe7
The BT40 was a Formula 2 car from 1973. Wilson Fittipaldi was the driver(¿was there another? And yes, the Chevy-Cosworth was based in the Vega engine (never seen the car). And about the pictures, I say ¡¡¡post them all!!! Everybody will be happy
.

[Dhango]

Here's the thread on the BT43:

The strange tale of the F5000 Brabham BT43 (merged)

Hi Tim
That first photo ¿Isn't that car called BT41 or yhis is a F3 car?

[Tim Murray]

This photo?

The Brabham BT41 was an F3 car, and as far as I know they all came with wedge noses and side radiators. The car in the photo has exhausts on both sides, indicating a V-engine, and the size of the radiators leaves me in no doubt that it's a F5000 car.

[RA Historian]

Looks like the BT-43.

[Stephen W]

Hi Spaceframe7
The BT40 was a Formula 2 car from 1973. Wilson Fittipaldi was the driver(¿was there another? And yes, the Chevy-Cosworth was based in the Vega engine (never seen the car). And about the pictures, I say ¡¡¡post them all!!! Everybody will be happy
.

The Chevrolet Vega/Cosworth engine was a cheaper option for F2. It was used in a couple of Brabhams (Tommy Reid springs to mind). It also appeared in the Martin BM16 and again it was still with the Martin last time it was for sale!

[2F-001]

The Vega-based engine would be the Cosworth "EA", wouldn't it? I think Guy Edwards tried one in his (Barclay's Bank) 2-litre Group 6 Lola. My understanding was that the chief benefit hoped for from this motor was light weight - with the pistons able to run in the alloy block without need of heavier ferrous liners. I believe similar metallurgy/technology was used in later McLaren CanAm engines - the alloy being a Reynolds product.

[f1steveuk]

I can never remember which actual number it is, but there is a BT??, which is a workshop trolley. It was designed and built in house, and as such was issued with a drawing office number. It was still being used when I left FOM in 1997.

[Arjan de Roos]

I can never remember which actual number it is, but there is a BT??, which is a workshop trolley. It was designed and built in house, and as such was issued with a drawing office number. It was still being used when I left FOM in 1997.

BT13? BT27?

[Tim Murray]

I can never remember which actual number it is, but there is a BT??, which is a workshop trolley. It was designed and built in house, and as such was issued with a drawing office number. It was still being used when I left FOM in 1997.

Was it this one, Steve?

Graham Hill hitching a lift to the pits from the Brabham team.

David

If it is, the caption on this Sutton photo describes it as 'BT44½':

http://www.mediastor...ampionship.html

[f1steveuk]

That's the one! Have to confess, I thought it was the 47, as the twin fan didn't beyond a sketch?

Strange picture! Is that a young Herbie?

Hill appears to have a Gold Leaf badge on his overalls, but has a Griffin helmet, but he's hitching a lift with a couple of Brabham boys. That has to be the Brands tunnel?

Edited by f1steveuk, 23 March 2011 - 08:07.

[2F-001]

Steve - when you say a 'Gold Leaf' badge, are you looking at the white/red horizontally-divided rectangle? (lowest of the badges on his right front?). I think that's a Motorcraft/Autolite badge isn't it? Surely the GL one had the background colours the other way around - that might solve the discrepancy?

(And is that a small Marlboro emblem on his left side?)

Edited by 2F-001, 23 March 2011 - 08:40.

[Hamish Robson]

(And is that a small Marlboro emblem on his left side?)

Surely that's the Embassy (Hill's team sponsor) ribbon symbol?

[2F-001]

Well, I suppose it might well be. The Embassy ribbon was generally taller - did they really use a truncated version that looked so much like the Marlboro badge? (I was wondering if Hill had had personal sponsorship from Marlboro, as so many others did, prior to running with his own team).

So do other details here (Griffin helmet, maybe?) confirm that this is '74 - or at least post-Brabham - (as the file name suggests) and that he's just hitching a ride?

[f1steveuk]

Yep, it was the badge that threw me. 100% a Griffin helmet, and Lineasport (?) overalls, so I'd say '74 or 5, so the trolley would never have been a BT47!!

[Tim Murray]

The device made its race debut at the 1974 Monaco GP, as described by Pete Lyons in his race report in Autosport:

Additionally, the [Brabham] team strength was bolstered by the long-awaited debut of their all-new “design for F1”, the space-framed, rubber-suspended, automatic transmissioned air cooled single cylinder Pit Trolley. Just the job for the Monaco circuit, where the paddock is nearly a mile away from the pits, the neat design generated a lot of interest; it represented the kind of advanced thinking that could indeed transform the very conduct of the sport.

[Dhango]

Well, I suppose it might well be. The Embassy ribbon was generally taller - did they really use a truncated version that looked so much like the Marlboro badge? (I was wondering if Hill had had personal sponsorship from Marlboro, as so many others did, prior to running with his own team).

So do other details here (Griffin helmet, maybe?) confirm that this is '74 - or at least post-Brabham - (as the file name suggests) and that he's just hitching a ride?

¿Am I reading well, it says "Griffin helmet"? ¿It's that a particular brand of helmets? I've never heard of it. ¿Does it exist today? ¿ It has a site to look?

Edited by Dhango, 24 March 2011 - 21:18.

[D-Type]

¿Am I reading well, it says "Griffin helmet"? ¿It's that a particular brand of helmets? I've never heard of it. ¿Does it exist today? ¿ It has a site to look?

Try using the "SEARCH" button at top right of your screen. Putting in "Griffin Helmet" comes up with at least 20 threads where it is mentioned including http://forums.autosp...amp;pid=1700076 which is the only one I looked into.