62 replies to this topic

[BRG]

At Donington today, there was a Ford Pop 107E (with the OHV engine) in the Historic Touring Cars field. It ran quite respectably before expiring with a minor ailment. I rather liked it - it was a classic Q-car, with plain grey-beige paintwork, and steel wheels, but with a serious looking Cosworth Kent engine with twin Webbers under the bonnet.

But it made me wonder whether I have ever seen a racing 100E/107E before - not that I recall? So do any of you knowledgeable lot remember any of these cars being raced?

[pete53]

The odd one did race although I don't recall them being that popular ('scuse the pun) as racing saloons. I do I have a 1959 Crystal Palace programme in which there is an entry for John Young in a Ford Prefect. I have another Palace programme with a photo taken in 1962 in which there is a 100E/107E in shot although it doesn't identify the driver. However a glance at other race programmes suggests A35s, A40s and Riley 1.5s were preferred, and then Minis and Anglias came along.

[wenoopy]

While trawling through the "Motor Sport" 1950's archive DVD, looking for something quite different in the pictorial sections, I came upon a photo of 2 ancient upright Ford Populars racing somewhere in England. I didn't check to see what engines they were running, but as it was probably 1954-55-56, it probably wasn't anything with a Cosworth name on it.

Edited by wenoopy, 21 March 2011 - 04:31.

[ronmac]

HI..Being a KIWI know all..and as I used to be in the Motor Vehicle Dismantling Profession...read that as a Car Wrecker
I wrecked a few dozen anglias prefects and populars too..In New Zeaand we called the 100E.s That came with a 105e engine..
a 107E.. A 100E plain..with no chrome grille and without chrome side beads..was a 100E Anglia...and those with chrome grille and
beading was a 100E prefect..
Did you see in the Classic and Sports Car Video by David Weguelin the section with the Ford Popular powered by a De Havilland
engine..instead of fitting a gearbox..the builder left the propellor on and was able to motor (a short distance ) with it.!!!.
There did.nt seem to be any exhaust system..so the doors were left open when the engine was running..
In New Zealand..some years ago..Kelvin Brown (brother of Barry Brown..and brother in law of Nola Blackburn...who was the
daughter of Vic Blackburn )) used to race a 1940 Anglia..powered by an O.H.V. anglia engine..which looked good..and sounded even better ..!! and was stopped with cable brakes too..!

[Terry Walker]

There was a guy in Perth in the late 50s or early 60s raced a Thames van edition of the side-valve Defect for several years. The boxy McPherson strut model, not the earlier upright Hockey Stick model. I've see a movie clip of it cornering on two wheels at a Round-the-Houses race.

[David McKinney]

I haven't dismantled even one 100E, Ron, but I would have thought the main difference between a 100E Anglia and a 100E Prefect was that one had two doors and the other four...

And as far as the "English Upright" Pops are concerned, there was one with Ballamy ifs which, IIRC, was hillclimbed to great effect in the '50s (maybe early '60s) by Rivers Fletcher

[hiteknz]

I haven't dismantled even one 100E, Ron, but I would have thought the main difference between a 100E Anglia and a 100E Prefect was that one had two doors and the other four...

And as far as the "English Upright" Pops are concerned, there was one with Ballamy ifs which, IIRC, was hillclimbed to great effect in the '50s (maybe early '60s) by Rivers Fletcher

David,
Don't forget the ones that the likes of Alan Woolf and Bill Norrish raced here ,there were a few good 100E's as well
Bob

[RCH]

Without checking... there were a couple, at least, of upright Pops racing well after their sell by date, can't remember any of the details but one was called Berpop and I'm sure I remember seeing it race at Mallory which would have to have been late '60's at the earliest. There are also odd entries of racing 1172 side valve 100E Anglias in the '50's, they appear to have been quite common in rallies, PCTs etc.

Roger Clark's first rally "car" was a 100E van.

Does anyone remember Nottingham University Motor Club's rallying 100Es? This was late '60's early '70's when I was a student at Leicester Poly. So far as I know they bought a 100E fitted a Cortina GT(?) engine and various other rally Cortina bits ran it till the shell collapsed and then started the process again with another old 100E.

[alansart]

Henry Mann was racing a Prefect last year.....





....complete with AA badge.

[Bloggsworth]

The Sit up and beg Fords were fun to drive in a hurry, they were pretty viceless, and in the mid 60's you could buy one for a tenner and it was good for a few years of thrashing around the coutryside. My only experience with cable brakes was a Standard Flying 9, which had Bendix all leading shoe drums which worked going forward once in a blue moon, and never worked in reverse - When I took my driving test I had to slip it into first and ease in the clutch to stop it when doing the reversing round a corner bit...

[pete53]

Without checking... there were a couple, at least, of upright Pops racing well after their sell by date, can't remember any of the details but one was called Berpop and I'm sure I remember seeing it race at Mallory which would have to have been late '60's at the earliest. There are also odd entries of racing 1172 side valve 100E Anglias in the '50's, they appear to have been quite common in rallies, PCTs etc.

I remember the "Berpop", wasn't it part named after the driver Mike BERman? You are right, there were one or two "sit-up-and-beg" Populars racing in the 60s and they did indeed look somewhat incongruous. I guy called Peter Clarke also raced one which I remember seeing at Brands in around 1965.

[GeoffR]

Not racing but still motorsport related - a rally 1500cc engined Prefect negotiating a firetrail hairpin, with some help (C. 1968)!

According to the navigator and part owner (the other was his brother who was also the driver) capable of close to 100mph with a good wind up.

[Terry Walker]

Caversham circa 1960

[Julian Roberts]

In haste, here's the car in question.


Ford Pop' by groupc, on Flickr

[Sharman]

I haven't dismantled even one 100E, Ron, but I would have thought the main difference between a 100E Anglia and a 100E Prefect was that one had two doors and the other four...

And as far as the "English Upright" Pops are concerned, there was one with Ballamy ifs which, IIRC, was hillclimbed to great effect in the '50s (maybe early '60s) by Rivers Fletcher

Known as Perpendicular Racing I remember them well, a pal of mine John Pell had one with a large cabin blower on it. He kept making progressively larger crankshaft pulleys, he would then experiment until they blew up and then it was back to the drawing board to restart the procedure

[Tim Murray]

In haste, here's the car in question.

It belongs to the Glaisters, I believe. Here it is again at the 2007 Silverstone Classic:



and it's available as a Corgi model:

http://www.ggmodels....-TOP-HAT-RACING

[wenoopy]

My late cousin Don Bairstow, who was a stalwart of the Auckland Car Club in the 1950's-60's, raced a Ford Prefect around that era.

I had completely forgotten this fact until I attended his funeral a few years ago. The following photo may well be of him getting the chequer at a meeting on the Club (1-mile) circuit at Ardmore a week after the 1958 New Zealand GP. Although he was not the only one running a Prefect at the time, it seems a logical reason for taking the photo. This circuit used the Hangar Straight and Hairpin of the GP Circuit, then doubled back on a parallel taxi-way to College Corner.



Sorry about the quality or lack, but I think it may have been copied by scanning a proof strip, the negative having long since been dumped as unusable.

[David McKinney]

David,
Don't forget the ones that the likes of Alan Woolf and Bill Norrish raced here ,there were a few good 100E's as well
Bob

No, I wasn't forgetting those, but was either an actual Popular?

And if we're broadening the discussion to all 100Es (as everyone seems to be doing!) there were loads in NZ - I remember Merrett and Robinson at Ardmore, Kerry Grant, Fordy Farland and Morrie Hogan at Levin, and before them Frank Hamlin at Ohakea, while there were a number of others in the South Island

[2F-001]

I well remember the Mike Berman 'upright' pop in Special Saloons - with a big Xflow engine, I think. There was even a vac-formed 1/32nd scale slotcar body for it (Beta models, was it?) which I recall buying and painting but never completing a chassis for.

There was a later one in both circuit racing and hillclimbing (I'm presuming not the same vehicle, but not certain) and my memory links the name James Funnell with one or other of them.

[ronmac]

YES David..you are right about the doors too.though we did.nt sell many doors.or beads .or grills anyway..
Remember in N.Z. the 1936 Ford 10 was called the Pregnant Ford 10..and the 1949 to 1952 Prefect was called the Easyroll..
Was that the same in the U.K. ??
I received a message from Kelvin Brown who said that he could outbrake a mini into the hairpin.with his cable braked 1940
Anglia..(for a few laps )

[RCH]

There was a later one in both circuit racing and hillclimbing (I'm presuming not the same vehicle, but not certain) and my memory links the name James Funnell with one or other of them.

The James Funnell who raced a Morris Minor? I have often wondered whether he was the Jim Funnell who was on the same course as me at Leicester Poly? Had a Moggy Minor and was a car nut but declined to join Leicester Colleges Motor Club.

[2F-001]

Ah, Rod... yes I might be even further confused than I thought! Mr Funnell does seem more plausibly linked with a Minor than Pop I was recalling. And I'm now uncertain about the Pop on the hills at all - apologies for muddying the waters unnecessarily!

When were you at Leicester Poly? I was there 75-78 but didn't have a car or any motoring involvement then, despite a strong interest in the sport. Mark Craig (dir. of the Jim Clark, Graham Hill etc docs) was there too, we just overlapped on Graphic Design degree course by a year.

[RCH]

Ah, Rod... yes I might be even further confused than I thought! Mr Funnell does seem more plausibly linked with a Minor than Pop I was recalling. And I'm now uncertain about the Pop on the hills at all - apologies for muddying the waters unnecessarily!

When were you at Leicester Poly? I was there 75-78 but didn't have a car or any motoring involvement then, despite a strong interest in the sport. Mark Craig (dir. of the Jim Clark, Graham Hill etc docs) was there too, we just overlapped on Graphic Design degree course by a year.

'68-'71, Mechanical Engineering. Tony Daff (later RAC-MSA chief timekeeper), and Christine Daniels (National level rally co-driver) were contempories. Was Graham Nunn still secretary of the Students Union in your day or had he defected to the University by then? Happy days!

[ianselva]

Ah, Rod... yes I might be even further confused than I thought! Mr Funnell does seem more plausibly linked with a Minor than Pop I was recalling. And I'm now uncertain about the Pop on the hills at all - apologies for muddying the waters unnecessarily!

When were you at Leicester Poly? I was there 75-78 but didn't have a car or any motoring involvement then, despite a strong interest in the sport. Mark Craig (dir. of the Jim Clark, Graham Hill etc docs) was there too, we just overlapped on Graphic Design degree course by a year.

The quickest 'Upright 'Pop was Les Ballamy who sold a selection of tuning parts for pops under the label LMB , His pop has F/glass forward hinging bonnet/wings , lightweight doors,blown 1172 engine and his own LMB ifs and 15" wheels.

[D-Type]

There seems to be some confusion about the various models and body shapes. Here's a brief summary of the main models

Perpendicular models. Side Valve
Anglia - always 2 door - E04A 1939-48, E494A 1949-53
Prefect - 4 door similar to Anglia but a bit bigger and had a flat back - E93A 1939-48, E493A19 1949-53
Popular - when the 100E Anglia was produced in 1953, the sit up and beg Anglia was renamed the Popular from 1953-59

3-box models. OHV
Anglia - 2 door - 100E - 1953-59
Prefect - 4 door - 100E - 1953-1959, 107E the old 100E body with the same engine as the Anglia 105E 1959-61
Popular - 2 door - when the 105E Anglia was produced, the 100E model soldiered on from 1959-62

Sloping rear window
Anglia only - 105E 1959-68, 123E "Super Anglia" with 1200 engine in parallel 1962-67

The SV and 100E were 1172cc - hence the 1172 formula
The 105E was 997cc. it was in the same family as the Cortina. So all the Anglia/Classic/Cortina family of engines will fit straight into a 105E Anglia or 107E Prefect as the mountings are more or less thesame. Dropping them into a 100E or a sit up and beg model was alittle more difficult.

There were van versions of all of them, usually branded as a Ford Thames, and estate versions of the 100E cars - the "Squire" and "Escort" (I can't remember the differences). The Escort name was later recycled.

Different versions, eg 'Utes', were produced in Australia and probably South Africa. Left hand drive versions had slightly different model mumbers, eg the 106E was a LHD Anglia notch back.

Edited by D-Type, 21 March 2011 - 12:44.

[Derwent Motorsport]

The car in the photo is Ed Glaister's which he has owned for many years. It did quite a bit of rallying both stage and road in the 70s/80s with some success. It has raced consistently in historic events for quite a number of years now with Ed and son Chris driving it. Ed does all the work himself and it's a genuine car that he bought for £5 many years ago.
The Henry Mann car is about as genuine as Jordan's boobs, more Escort than Prefect - a typical Goodwood creation. Certainly nothing raced like that in period as the bits weren't available!

[Derwent Motorsport]

Just to go back to the original question. In about 1957 my father had a brand new Prefect and being an enthusiast he went to Alexander Engineering to see their converted car which had a 4 speed gearbox. I was quite young at the time but I do remember the test drive we were taken on in a converted car. I reckon it was the first time I exceeded 100 mph! Alexander used to race their cars I remember.

[RCH]

There seems to be some confusion about the various models and body shapes. Here's a brief summary of the main models

3-box models. OHV
Anglia - 2 door - 100E - 1953-59
Prefect - 4 door - 100E - 1953-1959, 107E the old 100E body with the same engine as the Anglia 105E 1959-61
Popular - 2 door - when the 105E Anglia was produced, the 100E model soldiered on from 1959-62

.

There were van versions of all of them, usually branded as a Ford Thames, and estate versions of the 100E cars - the "Squire" and "Escort" (I can't remember the differences). The Escort name was later recycled.

Different versions, eg 'Utes', were produced in Australia and probably South Africa. Left hand drive versions had slightly different model mumbers, eg the 106E was a LHD Anglia notch back.

Don't want to seem piccy but the 100E 3-box models were side valve. The Escort was marketed (by our local Ford dealer anyway) as an Anglia estate, the Squire as a Prefect estate despite only having two passenger doors. The Squire was more upmarket with wooden strips on the sides and, I guess, better trim.

[David McKinney]

Both were factory listed models

[pete53]

It's just come back to me that in the mid 60s a Ford 100E van or estate was raced for short while - was it Terry Van Der Zee? Please confirm - I might be dreaming.

[Vitesse2]

There seems to be some confusion about the various models and body shapes. Here's a brief summary of the main models

Perpendicular models. Side Valve
Anglia - always 2 door - E04A 1939-48, E494A 1949-53
Prefect - 4 door similar to Anglia but a bit bigger and had a flat back - E93A 1939-48, E493A19 1949-53
Popular - when the 100E Anglia was produced in 1953, the sit up and beg Anglia was renamed the Popular from 1953-59

But just to confuse things, Wikipedia claims there was a 4-door version of the E494A built in Australia, citing "The Australian Motor Manual - Annual 1949-50" page 37.

[D-Type]

Don't want to seem piccy but the 100E 3-box models were side valve. The Escort was marketed (by our local Ford dealer anyway) as an Anglia estate, the Squire as a Prefect estate despite only having two passenger doors. The Squire was more upmarket with wooden strips on the sides and, I guess, better trim.

Fair comment. I wasn't sure and initially had a ? against the 100E being OHV.

I also over-simplified the engine capacities - the sit up and beg Anglias and, I think, the Popular were 933cc

Edited by D-Type, 21 March 2011 - 15:52.

[RCH]

It's just come back to me that in the mid 60s a Ford 100E van or estate was raced for short while - was it Terry Van Der Zee? Please confirm - I might be dreaming.

I'm sure you're right, it certainly rings a bell.

[David McKinney]

Ulsterman Richard Draper drove a 100E estate (I think an Escort) overland to New Zealand, raced it at Ardmore in January 1959, then drove it all the way home again...

[Allan Lupton]

It's just come back to me that in the mid 60s a Ford 100E van or estate was raced for short while - was it Terry Van Der Zee? Please confirm - I might be dreaming.

Terry van der Zee was something of a special builder and his 100E Escort (estate) had a TR engine in it and went very well. I remember sending him off on the front row of an Eight Clubs scratch race at Silverstone next to some mod-sport or another which made chief Timekeeper Mike Eyre quite seriously ask "are you SURE???". Since he led the race at the end of lap 1 (and thereafter), yes we were sure!
He later confused the handicrappers (me!) with an entry that said it was an Escort with a Rover V8 in it - turned out to be a Mk. 1 Escort, not the 100E. Went well too!

[pete53]

Terry van der Zee was something of a special builder and his 100E Escort (estate) had a TR engine in it and went very well.

Thanks for the info. and confirmation Allan. I'm sure I have an old Autosport or MN with a picture of the aforementioned vehicle. I will have to have a rummage.

[RogerFrench]

The sidevalve Ford engines were 933cc or 1172cc. The 933 was used in the Ford 8, the 1172 in the Ford 10 and later cars. There were two types E93A (pre-and post-war) and the later 100E which had detail differences. The 100E was only ever 1172cc as I recollect. I think both E93a and 100E 1172cc engines were produced in parallel for a while, which seems a bit wasteful.
Then again, it was a while back and I may not remember all that clearly.

[Robin Fairservice]

Here is Rivers Fletcher in his Popular at Great Auclum hill climb in 1961:




Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[David McKinney]

My memory's not as bad as I thought

[David McKinney]

The sidevalve Ford engines were 933cc or 1172cc. The 933 was used in the Ford 8, the 1172 in the Ford 10 and later cars. There were two types E93A (pre-and post-war) and the later 100E which had detail differences. The 100E was only ever 1172cc as I recollect. I think both E93a and 100E 1172cc engines were produced in parallel for a while, which seems a bit wasteful.

My only confusion now is, was the E93A 933cc or 1172cc?

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by D-Type
.....Perpendicular models. Side Valve
Anglia - always 2 door - E04A 1939-48, E494A 1949-53
Prefect - 4 door similar to Anglia but a bit bigger and had a flat back - E93A 1939-48, E493A19 1949-53.....

Speedy has pointed out:

But just to confuse things, Wikipedia claims there was a 4-door version of the E494A built in Australia, citing "The Australian Motor Manual - Annual 1949-50" page 37.

So I will add that the Australian-production cars didn't have a flat back. We always referred to the flat-backed cars as 'English-bodied' compared to the 'Australian-bodied' cars we saw in much greater numbers.

It's frightening to recall it, but my father bought one new in 1951. Some time later the toll on the Tom Ugly bridge was dropped which causes me to remember my grandmother fussing in her purse looking for a sixpence as we approached this Sydney landmark. And there beside my grandmother in the back seat was my big sister and one of my brothers as well as myself.

In the front? My father driving, my mother on the left and my baby sister and other younger brother!

I've previously posted photos of one on the grid at Leyburn... if I come across it again I will repost it here.

[RCH]

My only confusion now is, was the E93A 933cc or 1172cc?

E93A was a Prefect which made it a Ten, ie. 1172cc. I believe the post-war "sit up & beg" Populars from 1953 when they stopped being Anglias were all 1172cc.

[D-Type]

Speedy has pointed out:



So I will add that the Australian-production cars didn't have a flat back. We always referred to the flat-backed cars as 'English-bodied' compared to the 'Australian-bodied' cars we saw in much greater numbers.

It's frightening to recall it, but my father bought one new in 1951. Some time later the toll on the Tom Ugly bridge was dropped which causes me to remember my grandmother fussing in her purse looking for a sixpence as we approached this Sydney landmark. And there beside my grandmother in the back seat was my big sister and one of my brothers as well as myself.

In the front? My father driving, my mother on the left and my baby sister and other younger brother!

I've previously posted photos of one on the grid at Leyburn... if I come across it again I will repost it here.

I remember my mum's sit-up-and-beg Prefect. It once did 63mph (down a very steep hill) we didn't pack it as full as you - just Mum and big sister in front and the family great dane and labrador/something cross plus moi in the back. And the vacuum-driven wipers which would die as the car reached terminal velocity downhill and go mad as it climbed up the other side.

With a family that big I can understand your attraction to Peugeots - does it perhaps date back to a Peugeot "Family saloon" ie a Peugeot estate with two back seats making it a genuine 8-seater (and considerably more if you are good friends).

[Sharman]

Peter Beswick mentioned in the Oulton scoreboard thread, was, at one time, a salesman at Quicks of Manchester. He managed to take the side out of a Leyland Royal Tiger, property of North-Western Road Car Company. The E93A Popular he was driving then slow rolled over the 6 foot wall surrounding ICI's Alderley Park establishment. He pushed it back onto it's feet and drove across the lawn and out of the main gate. How he explained to the sales manager I don't know but North Western never traced the car which was repairable. Tough little beasts they were.

[Lee Nicolle]

I remember my mum's sit-up-and-beg Prefect. It once did 63mph (down a very steep hill) we didn't pack it as full as you - just Mum and big sister in front and the family great dane and labrador/something cross plus moi in the back. And the vacuum-driven wipers which would die as the car reached terminal velocity downhill and go mad as it climbed up the other side.

With a family that big I can understand your attraction to Peugeots - does it perhaps date back to a Peugeot "Family saloon" ie a Peugeot estate with two back seats making it a genuine 8-seater (and considerably more if you are good friends).

Other way round wih those wipers

[Lee Nicolle]

The only 100E variants I have seen raced were drag cars, fitted with grey 6cyl Holden engines. Except for a van that was a daily driver used for sprints, hillclimbs and motorkhanas. Once again grey Holden powered.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by D-Type
.....With a family that big I can understand your attraction to Peugeots - does it perhaps date back to a Peugeot "Family saloon" ie a Peugeot estate with two back seats making it a genuine 8-seater (and considerably more if you are good friends).

No, my parents never owned a Pug at all...

By the time rules about how you packed people into cars came into being, I was already a parent and my parents didn't have to worry about those things. Though they did a few times look at Pugs, they never bought one, they stuck with Holdens except for one unfortunate experience with a VW.

My predilection for them came from owning an old 403 in the mid-sixties. It simply gave less trouble than all the other cars I had, so I was sold on reliability. That it came with good handling, brakes etc was a bonus, of course.

Getting back on topic, my father's purchase of a Prefect was preceded by the ownership of a 1930 'New Beauty' A-model Ford. When he concluded that it really was too small, he reverted to a used car and bought a '37 sloper 2-door Plymouth. But that was horrendously thirsty and so it was eclipsed by a second hand '52 Holden. Pretty soon he was buying new again, with an FJ, then an FE, an FC wagon, mum also got a new FC sedan, and then the VW. An EJ was the next new Holden, I don't recall what dad had in between them but he didn't keep the VW very long at all. An EH 149 manual... and by then he was car-dealing to such an extent that it all waxed and waned a bit. He finished his life a Toymotor devotee, which you'd have known if you'd read my parts in the thread (in the Tech forum) about unintended acceleration in Toymotors.

And again, back to the topic... a friend of mine used to own an E93 and he reckons it revved unbelievably. Of course, valve bounce didn't run too many risks with the old side-valves and he flogged his thing around Brisbane at what sounds like (according to his stories) an impossible pace.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
The only 100E variants I have seen raced were drag cars, fitted with grey 6cyl Holden engines. Except for a van that was a daily driver used for sprints, hillclimbs and motorkhanas. Once again grey Holden powered.

When Peter Brock bought Kenny Mitchell out of the A30, Kenny built a 100E with a red motor.

[dcoupe]

Ron Mac, Im surprised you havent mentioned Neville Boons potent potent OSCA version, was it a pushrod or did it have a 2 litre SOHC engine & then there was Barry Vuyk's car powered initially by a straight 6 zephyr MK111 engine & then the Holden XU1 with the triple sidedraughts. Might have been a couple of others that I cant remember details of.
Also spied an easyroll with 289 Ford/C4 & 8'Ford diff , road legal etc at a Hot Rod run a while ago, bit of a sleeper from front on, but the 10" wide rims gave it away from behind.

[BRG]

I knew you lot would have plenty of memories about these cars! Yes, it was the Glaister car at Donington. I suspected, as seems to be the case, that there were more 100Es rallied than raced.

On sit-up-&-beg E93As, I recall a friend of my elder brother had one and had to replace the door handles several times after it 'fell over' going round corners. Not on the face of it much of a base for a competition car, but of course it did spawn a plethora of specials and kit-cars.