22 replies to this topic

[Giraffe]

My friends on the dreaded Facebook have been pondering the identification of this driver pictured in a Gulf Mirage. Several TNFers have been involve (including Twinny last year) and the poster seems now to think it's Mike Hailwood at Spa.
I have spoken to TNF lurker Howden Ganley on this and he passed me on to John Horsman who is in the picture, but the driver remains a mystery.
I'm posting the image and my corres with Howden and John in the hope that the forum can establish for certain who the driver is.


By giraffe138 at 2011-03-28


Hi Tony,
No I don't think it is Mike . I never saw him with any helmet other than his
usual - white with gold strip and maroon edging.
Looks more like a Hobbo helmet.
I think that John Horsman would be the best person to ask - particularly as that is him
walking by the car.
I have just been reading the latest posts on the Mike Hailwood thread of TNF.


Howden

Hi Tony,


You certainly asked a difficult question re: the name of the driver in car N0. 6 in your attached photo.


There is so little of the car showing, or background to identify where and when. And there were not many races at which we had number 6 on any Mirage in the 1972-1974 period.


The airbox limits it to 1972 or '73, but in '73 the rear aerofoils were made in three sections, with fences in between, not for any aerodynamic advantage, just a manufacturing limitation. In the photo I cannot see the fences, which would make in 1972, but just maybe one is masked by the airbox and the other is masked by my jacket.


In 1972 we never had a Number 6. In 1973 at Vallelunga we had # 6 on the Bell/Ganley car, and again at Dijon, same drivers. As you know, at Spa number 6 was on the car started by Hailwood and finished up with Howden and Vern, but Howden says its not him or Mike H. in the car, and its not Vern's helmet.


In June 1973 at Zeltweg, Austria, John Watson was fit again after breaking his leg in an F1 car earlier in the season (he had also driven for us at Le Mans on 9 June but his car was # 9 then).
His Zeltweg Mirage was number 6, so I believe that is Watson in the car with the curious colour scheme on his helmet, even though I cannot see the fences on the aerofoil.


John also drove for us at Watkins Glen in July 1973, but the cars were numbers 4 and 5 there.


I believe "Watson at Zeltweg" is the correct answer,


With Best Regards,
John Horsman.

Edited by Giraffe, 28 March 2011 - 10:51.

[Twin Window]

Ah, the Facebook mystery pic!

Well, I'm sure it isn't Wattie. My gut feeling is that it's an American, but as we know it isn't Tony Adamowicz. It's a vet 'American' design and back then it was normally only the US drivers who sported the larger Bell logos on the forehead of their helmets.

Hobbs would qualify as he was effectively based over there at the time. Wonder if I still have his contact details...

The other possibility is that it's a borrowed lid after a regular one was damaged, stolen or lost. Should that be the case it brings Hailwood back into the frame as he used to use that type of balaclava and wore it like that too.

[RS250]

Ah, the Facebook mystery pic!

Well, I'm sure it isn't Wattie. My gut feeling is that it's an American, but as we know it isn't Tony Adamowicz. It's a vet 'American' design and back then it was normally only the US drivers who sported the larger Bell logos on the forehead of their helmets.

Hobbs would qualify as he was effectively based over there at the time. Wonder if I still have his contact details...

The other possibility is that it's a borrowed lid after a regular one was damaged, stolen or lost. Should that be the case it brings Hailwood back into the frame as he used to use that type of balaclava and wore it like that too.

I reckon its David Hobbs - Im sure he went from his usual blue and yellow scheme to something black, yellow and gold to tie in with Carling sponsorship in Can-Am and Indycar.

[Arjan de Roos]

He looks more like Jackie Oliver to me.

[Giraffe]

What I find staggering about this is that his team mates & team manager don't even know who he is! I posted this in the forlorn hope that the driver will recognise himself and tell us!

[Peter Darley]

He looks more like Jackie Oliver to me.

I agree, BUT consider the following:

South African Springbok Series 1973. Kylami 9 Hr Race . Nov 3rd.

Car No 6 Gulf Mirage. Hailwood / De Fierlant

Note that the track is anti clockwise as per Kylami.

De Fierlants helmet colour is described as orange as per entry list.

[Bloggsworth]

Note that the track is anti clockwise as per Kylami.

Bloody hell! You deduced an anti-clockwise track from that photo..... Or are you in touch with Doris Stokes?

[LDS]

Don't think its Kyalami. I checked on David Pearsons www.motoprint.co.za website and image number MP001834 shows a slightly different configuration.

[cpbell]

Bloody hell! You deduced an anti-clockwise track from that photo..... Or are you in touch with Doris Stokes?

Plus, I always thought Kyalami was a clockwise track.

[Giraffe]

I agree, BUT consider the following:

South African Springbok Series 1973. Kylami 9 Hr Race . Nov 3rd.

Car No 6 Gulf Mirage. Hailwood / De Fierlant

Note that the track is anti clockwise as per Kylami.

De Fierlants helmet colour is described as orange as per entry list.

Good call Peter! I'm running it past John H.

[Giraffe]

Latest e-mail from John Horsman; seems it was Mike Hailwood after all..........

Dear Tony,
I am sorry to have misled you into thinking the driver in question was John Watson. I was diverted from considering it was Spa '73 due to Howden telling you it could not be Hailwood as he never had this style of helmet. Well, in fact he did at that Spa race!


I have sent Romain a copy of a shot taken of the start of the race, which appeared in my book, "Racing in the Rain", and which proves the point. Mike in # 5 car does have a multi-coloured helmet on as the cars charge down to Eau Rouge.


So now you have the correct answer, sorry it took so long. Still don't know why the two fences on the rear aerofoil, as we ran in '73, are not visible in the first photo sent to me. You can see them in this photo.


Best Regards,
JohnHorsman.




PS. If you read my book you will know ALL about it!

Edited by Giraffe, 28 March 2011 - 21:38.

[seccotine]

I don't recognize Hailwood's nose but I thought it could well be him.
In those days, he used different helmets with various proportions of red, white and gold - his usual colours.
That same year, I remember he had one with a "kashmir" (or psychedelic) scheme.

[Doug Nye]

Those damned full-face helmets have a lot to answer for. So much to protect (in many cases) so very little...

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 28 March 2011 - 20:37.

[elansprint72]

Tony,
I'm not sure who took the original photo in question; I am sure who took the second- Rainer Schlegelmilch. If you keep posting copyright shots with "by giraffe" underneath them it's only a matter of time before someone is knocking at your door. Also I think it is against the forum rules. Why not just post a link?

[Giraffe]

Tony,
I'm not sure who took the original photo in question; I am sure who took the second- Rainer Schlegelmilch. If you keep posting copyright shots with "by giraffe" underneath them it's only a matter of time before someone is knocking at your door. Also I think it is against the forum rules. Why not just post a link?

Good point, but John Horsman e-mailed me that pic; it's from his book so no link available. The original pic is Romain Moorman's that I was trying to identify for him.

[E1pix]

It seems there's sure a lot of copyright misuse here, and the forum rules are specifically clear about this.

For the enjoyment of everyone who loves to look at great old shots, this needs to be addressed over and over.

Lots of shooters, myself and several posters I've read included, are hesitant to post here strictly because of this.

This is not to nag.... but to repeat what many have written. Everyone misses out in seeing less photos here.

With Respect and Regards.

[elansprint72]

Good point, but John Horsman e-mailed me that pic; it's from his book so no link available. The original pic is Romain Moorman's that I was trying to identify for him.

I have no doubt that JH credited the photographer in his book; your defence is no defence; legally-speaking. Best always to post a link, rather than a photo which you do not own.

Edited by elansprint72, 29 March 2011 - 22:48.

[Giraffe]

No link available so I'll take it down.

Edited by Giraffe, 29 March 2011 - 08:32.

[Tim Murray]

Here's the link:

http://www.schlegelm...amp;image=32169

Edit: Hmm, well, maybe not. It seems the only way you can get to see the photo is to go to the Schlegelmilch site:

http://www.schlegelm...chive/index.php

and in the relevant search boxes scroll down to Sports Cars > Spa Francorchamps > 1973

There's another photo in that batch which appears to show Hailwood in that helmet.

Edited by Tim Murray, 28 March 2011 - 22:32.

[Giraffe]

There are lots of other race photos of the Mirages, but sadly none of them shows Hailwood in that helmet.

My suspicions are still aroused and confirmed by another eminent TNFer's doubts, I am looking for an image of De Fierlants helmet...................

[Tim Murray]

Sorry Tony, I edited my post as you were posting. There is after all another photo in that batch from Spa which would seem to show Hailwood in that helmet. It's on the second page, ref 73SP-060. I had a go earlier at finding a photo of de Fierlant's helmet, without success - he almost always drove closed cars.

Edited by Tim Murray, 28 March 2011 - 22:40.

[Giraffe]

By giraffe138 at 2011-03-28

Yep Tim, having forwarded the link (;) ) to Howden Ganley, even he has conceded that it's Mike in this pic, but he is as bemused by it as myself & seemingly many others? Why? 'Probably a story in itself' as Howden said. Thanks all.

Edited by Giraffe, 29 March 2011 - 06:24.

[philippe7]

I'm a little late on that one, but just to add further evidence ( if needed...) I perfectly remember that there was a black and white picture in the relevant issue of the french monthly Sport Auto ( that Gérard Crombac was chief editor of ) of Hailwood with that helmet in the Gulf at Spa and the caption specifically mentioned that Mike was wearing an "unusual helmet" ....

Said issue of Sport Auto is unfortunately buried deep somewhere at my parent's house on the other side of the world from where I am now, but please take my word for it .