105 replies to this topic

[ForzaGTR]

Hi

I urge you all to watch this documentary. It features many famous drivers including three times world champion Sir Jackie Stewart OBE, twice world champion Emerson Fittipaldi and John Surtees OBE.

It really makes you realize how far the sport has come!

http://www.bbc.co.uk...e_Killer_Years/

[Jackmancer]

Not avaible in your area.

Thank you BBC

[Gemini]

I watched it on iplayer today. Amazing!

Despite the fact that I was well aware of almost all of the events reminded and seen most of the footage before, this is very well narrated and edited documentary. And ending segment covering Roger Williamson death at Zaadvort made sure very few viewers will be left untouched after watching this.

The film sooner or later will make its way to no restriction zones of internet.

[ForzaGTR]

I watched it on iplayer today. Amazing!

Despite the fact that I was well aware of almost all of the events reminded and seen most of the footage before, this is very well narrated and edited documentary. And ending segment covering Roger Williamson death at Zaadvort made sure very few viewers will be left untouched after watching this.

The film sooner or later will make its way to no restriction zones of internet.

The Roger Williamson death brings a tear to my eye. It was just shocking.

[allyb171189]

The Roger Williamson death brings a tear to my eye. It was just shocking.

I also watched it and that was the saddest bit i think. watching david purley trying to get someone to help was devastating to watch, running across the track trying tp get someone to stop, i admit there was a tear

[johnmhinds]

I'm just going to warn people that it is very graphic in places, so if you don't like that kind thing stay away.

But apart from the ghoulish nature of some of the chosen clips it's a very good documentary.

[BullHead]

Bloody hell! The picture link alone on the iplayer website is graphic enough.. Bandini, Monaco, I beleive.

[chdphd]

There's a discussion about it here already: http://forums.autosp...howtopic=144451

Edited by chdphd, 28 March 2011 - 19:48.

[ForzaGTR]

Watching it made me think those drivers were the bravest people ever. Maybe a bit crazy too but I have the up-most respect for their strong desire to race.

[lewymp4]

Unfortunately here in the U.S. the only retrospective thay you will see regarding any form of motor sports, are NASCAR and the Indy 500.

[Soapy9963]

Unfortunately here in the U.S. the only retrospective thay you will see regarding any form of motor sports, are NASCAR and the Indy 500.

yep, sadly.... I really want to see this but obviously being in america its not rly possible.

[Zarathustra]

I tried hard not to get too emotional watching this but the bit with Purley desperately trying to get help got me. You really do have to hunt this down if you're not in the UK.

[lewymp4]

yep, sadly.... I really want to see this but obviously being in america its not rly possible.

I've seen Roger Williamson horrific fatal accident on You Tube, and the courageous actions taken by David Purley. I really found it much to hard, and brutal thing too watch.

[The July Plot]

I tried hard not to get too emotional watching this but the bit with Purley desperately trying to get help got me. You really do have to hunt this down if you're not in the UK.

That is probably one of the most heart wrenching peices of footage in all of F1 history.

[Ellios]

watched it tonight on the iplayer - I am already familiar with many of the incidents shown in this excellent documentary - but I'd not seen many of the interviews shown nor the haunted look in Nina Rindt's eyes....

[chivdog]

watched it tonight on the iplayer - I am already familiar with many of the incidents shown in this excellent documentary - but I'd not seen many of the interviews shown nor the haunted look in Nina Rindt's eyes....

For me Nina Rindt looked so sad and was still shaken. She clearly despises Chapman. It was the "highlight" - if you could call it that.

[ForzaGTR]

It's amazing how times change. Can you imagine a sport being accepted today where people died so frequently? I liked how Jackie compared it to war. I cannot imagine entering a sport where you knew there was a high chance you could be killed, it was like soldiers going to war.

[Coral]

For me Nina Rindt looked so sad and was still shaken. She clearly despises Chapman. It was the "highlight" - if you could call it that.

Yes, Jochen had apparently told her that he would retire from motor racing were he to win the WDC. Seeing the trophy that he never lived to collect on the mantelpiece beside his photo was so sad.

[Myrvold]

Now I guess I'm getting hunted down here, and maybe even getting a warning. But this reminded me on why I feel F1 is a bit boring today. I feel the element for risk is too little. I don't want it to be dangerous just to be sitting in the car, but there must be a certain risk involved.

[BullHead]

There is.

[Myrvold]

I disagree. The cars are just as safe as the should be. But the new tracks, and the way to make the tracks safer - it's a bit too much for me.

[Hairpin]

Now I guess I'm getting hunted down here, and maybe even getting a warning. But this reminded me on why I feel F1 is a bit boring today. I feel the element for risk is too little. I don't want it to be dangerous just to be sitting in the car, but there must be a certain risk involved.

You are welcome to take that risk anytime. On a closed track of course. Or follow another sport maybe? Rally is still dangerous enough and why not follow motorcycle racing? Take a trip to Isle of Man maybe?

[BullHead]

@ Myrvold - You might be confusing race gain risk with real life bodily risk. I agree that some tracks don't punish racing ability hard enough, but there is no need to have bodily harm risk attached to tracks. Driving lightweight open wheel open cockpit carbon fibre machines at near on 200mph is risky enough itself surely...

Edited by BullHead, 28 March 2011 - 23:32.

[jj2728]

Bloody hell! The picture link alone on the iplayer website is graphic enough.. Bandini, Monaco, I beleive.

Yes, Bandini's Ferrari burning at Monaco 1967. The photo was taken by Robert Daley, author of 'The Cruel Sport' and 'Cars at Speed' amongst others. In the foreground is Bandini's teammate Chris Amon, he finished 3rd in his first GP for Ferrari. I haven't seen the docs yet as I'm across the pond and so it's not available here, but from what I've gathered over on TNF it was fairly well received though it did have a few inaccuraicies and Nina Rindt did NOT despise Chapman.

[pinkypants]

I also watched it and that was the saddest bit i think. watching david purley trying to get someone to help was devastating to watch, running across the track trying tp get someone to stop, i admit there was a tear

Just watched it now, as an ex Marshall just makes me angry but ... meh.

Didn't help that I watched a good hour of Senna crash replies before watching it.

[chhatra]

Great documentary to watch, having only been born in the 90's and watching F1 for only 10 years, I have never been exposed to the horrors in that film. What really strikes me is Chapman's ability to disregard the the risk involved in pursuit of making fast cars. The bit about Jochen wanting the 49 only for Chapman to give him a 72 was disturbing.

It's so easy to forget the risk involved in the sport today. It is a huge testament to the ruthlessness of Jackie Stewart that we have crashes today where 9/10 the driver walks away. Jackie you're a legend

[Andrew Hope]

I'm always in two minds about safety. I think there is a point where if the cars are safe enough, then the tracks don't need to be. Where that magical line in the sand is or if it will ever be crossed, I don't know, but race tracks should be picturesque, glamorous, and dangerous, and as much as no one wants to see anyone killed or seriously injured racing, those that point out that there are plenty of safe sports to play are quite right. You don't wake up from a coma to find yourself enjoying a tremendously dangerous career, you chose to be there and you can pay the consequences like the rest of us, however grim they may be. Death and serious injury is in that grey area - you could never say a driver 'deserved' it, or got what was coming to him, but it's part of the deal and I have little patience for people that mindlessly want to pussify everything to make it safe for everyone - it shouldn't be a sport for everyone. If you want to be a driver you should have the right to expect everything will be done to help you in the event you have a bad accident, on the condition that you accept by entering that world, not everyone gets to leave it in the way they want to.

[Myrvold]

You are welcome to take that risk anytime. On a closed track of course. Or follow another sport maybe? Rally is still dangerous enough and why not follow motorcycle racing? Take a trip to Isle of Man maybe?

I follow rally and motorcycle as well Also done my fair share of racing in my country - but an accident that ended with a fractured skull and some bad brain hemorrhage I had to give up the dream Working on a budget for VLN these days- but enough about me...

@ Myrvold - You might be confusing race gain risk with real life bodily risk. I agree that some tracks don't punish racing ability hard enough, but there is no need to have bodily harm risk attached to tracks. Driving lightweight open wheel open cockpit carbon fibre machines at near on 200mph is risky enough itself surely...

Well, I don't think I'm confusing it. The new tracks would be a nice fit for early 90's cars. And the early 90's tracks would be a nice fit for todays cars as far as safety is concerned. But still, a track like Spa isn't what it was, bacause it is too easy to drive there now... I do feel we think about the same thing, but my limited english knowledge might screw things up a bit.

[OSX]

Brilliant documentary. Not to be missed. And if you want to know more about those times I recommend reading 'Winning is Not Enough' by Sir Jackie Stewart.

www.sirjackiestewart.com

[F1Champion]

A really good documentary which opens you eyes up to the sheer risks drivers took when they got in the car.

It really does make you think that this was the most dangerous era in the sport probably more so than the 50's etc due to the ever higher speeds.

Watching Jim Clark's onboard was a real pleasure. People call Prost, Senna and Schumacher greats but you have to put Jim Clark in that bracket. The way he places the car on the edges of the track when you don't know if you'll hit a pothole or a small banking that will spin and crash the car is pure skill and bravery combined. He looked so effortless and yet in spite of all these dangers you visually see him pushing 100%.

Massive respect to Sir Jackie Stewart and others for pushing for greater safety, can't ever be forgotten.

[Bloggsworth]

I'm always in two minds about safety.

Having raced, granted it was only FF, I am never in two minds about safety; on the whole, I'd rather live than die. Risk is risk, but as such it should be made as small as possible. Would you advocate blindfolding pedestrians and telling them to cross the motorway anyway? Er, no. Win or die when said by a competitor is not to be taken literally.

[BigJug99]

Hi

I urge you all to watch this documentary. It features many famous drivers including three times world champion Sir Jackie Stewart OBE, twice world champion aftermarket parts Emerson Fittipaldi and John Surtees OBE.

It really makes you realize how far the sport has come!

http://www.bbc.co.uk...e_Killer_Years/

I was so excited to watch it until it said *Not available in your area* now im sad lol.

[T-Mobile]

It really is shocking the number of deaths in motorsport throughout the years. Robert Kubica surviving Canada was amazing...not so lucky in Italy.

[404KF2]

Swine BBC, N/A in Canada despite me subscribing to digital BBC TV (not that it's related!).

I watched Paletti and Senna die on live TV, put me off F-1 for a time.

[LB]

Quite a few innaccuracies but thats not surprising. Interested in Jackie Stewart's 'stat' that two/three were killed which just isn't true.if you take the points scorers from 1965 Stewarts Debut season Clark, Bandini, Spence, McLaren, Siffert, Rindt, Rodrigeuz all died in race cars, Bonnier too although he didn't score in 1965 he did take part in all the races. So thats 8

Hill died in a plane crash
Hulme, Ginther, Bucknam of natural causes ok Hulme was in a race car but it was the 90's!

Stewart, Gurney, Surtees, Brabham, Attwood are still alive.

7/16 scorers 8/17

when you throw in regular drivers Gardner, Gregory and Ireland who again have all died of natural causes since, Anderson did of course die in a race car. 9/21 regulars still awful but not 66%

Of the rest of the field

Hawkins, Solana, Bianchi, Mitter, Geki which brings the total to 14 drivers that raced F1 in 1965 that subseqyently died in race cars. Terrible, however there were 50 drivers that at least tried to qualify 40 that did. 14/40 is still not 66% Jackie.. 1/3 is still a horrendous chance.

Stewart finished in 1973

Peterson, Revson, Cevert, Stomellen, Williamson of 43 drivers that took part went on to die in race cars. So you can see the improvement.

[911]

It's amazing how times change. Can you imagine a sport being accepted today where people died so frequently? I liked how Jackie compared it to war. I cannot imagine entering a sport where you knew there was a high chance you could be killed, it was like soldiers going to war.

I agree. For me, the drivers in that era remind me of pilots from WWII. Because of the high mortality rate (F1 and the Indy 500), you almost had to have a certain type of personality & character to pursue it. The possibility of dying was very real in those days. I remembered reading a story from Jackie Stewart. He said that every time he raced at the Nurburgring, he would take a long look at his driveway because he wasn't sure if he'd ever see it again.

[Vitesse2]

The thing about deaths in motor sport is that they tend to be spectacular: the crash itself, the very real possibility of fire and the fact that the press can linger ghoulishly afterwards showing the wreckage. Our sport is safer than it has ever been in its 116 year history, for which we should be grateful to - especially - Jackie Stewart, Jo Bonnier, Niki Lauda and Graham Hill, who were the driving forces behind the GPDA's safety crusade.

Contrast motor sport's safety record with equestrian sports and it stands up remarkably well. Were you aware for example that

Between 1997 and December 2008, at least 37 eventing riders died as a result of injuries incurred while competing in the cross-country phase of eventing at national or international level or at Pony Club, and of these, 18 riders died in the period 2006-2008. These 37 fatal falls have been at all levels of the sport, from domestic one-day events up to regional championships level, and they have occurred in most of the recognized eventing countries around the world, with concentrations in the United Kingdom (14) and the United States (8).

http://en.wikipedia....Eventing#Safety

I wonder how many more have been left disabled after breaking their necks or backs?

If we were to lose another F1 driver as publicly as Senna, there would be a world-wide outcry, with the usual calls for the sport to be banned. Yet if a leading 3-day eventer died, there'd be barely a ripple: go figure :\

[chivdog]

Nina Rindt did NOT despise Chapman.

She may not but that was my impression from her interview in the documentary. When you see the documentary let me know what you think.

[Tsarwash]

Great documentary. Really good.

For some people, F1 can never be too safe, and for others, it is to safe and sanitized already. How safe the result fo a crash is, will change how people drive, and how much they push the limit. If we took a unlikely hypothetical example, and said that the cars performed as they do today, but the fatality chance of a high speed crash was say 5%. A very low figure, but we have much more than 20 off's in a season, more like 20 every four races. So if drivers carried on as they do today, we have 5 or six drivers killed a year. Obviously drivers are still going to push very hard, but knowing that a quarter of drivers will not make the season out, will natually affect them and the way they will perform. Many drivers will not push so far to the limit that they exceed it, and they would certainly take less risks for overtaking. Given how much the cars seem to perform like slot cars now, I think we would see much, much more processional races and boring qualifying if the cars were less safe.

[LB]

Its on youtube now anyway.

[Louis Siefert]

Not avaible in your area.

Thank you BBC

search on you tube... noob rather than whining

[BullHead]

Contrast motor sport's safety record with equestrian sports and it stands up remarkably well.

Very important and correct point. Snowsports too.

Edited by BullHead, 30 March 2011 - 16:55.

[Ellios]

search on you tube... noob rather than whining

available from your local torrent outlet or nzb farm

[404KF2]

Good show (saw it on YouTube) but there was a lot more carnage to come after 1973.....the one that hit me the hardest was Gilles Villeneuve, it was devastating for the Canadian motor racing fans I hung with back then.

[jj2728]

She may not but that was my impression from her interview in the documentary. When you see the documentary let me know what you think.

Having just seen it yesterday I'll say that yes you are right, that is the impresssion that she gives in the documentary, but I don't think it was the case. Having said that and having grown up in and around the sport in those years, the interviews aside, which I did enjoy, I thought the program was tripe. Full of inaccuracies and geared towards a sensasionalist viewing. An example, Jim Clark did NOT get thrown from his car and 15 feet into the air. Where the producers dreamt that up I have no idea. They also seemed to imply that the Roger Williamson accident was a seminal moment when in actuality it was not. Mere months later Cevert was killed at Watkins Glen. I think they did the Nurburgring a disservice as for 1971 the GP did return there and the cars were still flying over the jumps. The black and white footage of Spa 1966 was very interesting but why would they use stills from the movie 'Grand Prix'? Ah well....

[Amphicar]

Having just seen it yesterday I'll say that yes you are right, that is the impresssion that she gives in the documentary, but I don't think it was the case. Having said that and having grown up in and around the sport in those years, the interviews aside, which I did enjoy, I thought the program was tripe. Full of inaccuracies and geared towards a sensasionalist viewing. An example, Jim Clark did NOT get thrown from his car and 15 feet into the air. Where the producers dreamt that up I have no idea. They also seemed to imply that the Roger Williamson accident was a seminal moment when in actuality it was not. Mere months later Cevert was killed at Watkins Glen. I think they did the Nurburgring a disservice as for 1971 the GP did return there and the cars were still flying over the jumps. The black and white footage of Spa 1966 was very interesting but why would they use stills from the movie 'Grand Prix'? Ah well....

As they did every year up to and including 1976:

Edited by Amphicar, 03 April 2011 - 12:01.

[Jimisgod]

Having just seen it yesterday I'll say that yes you are right, that is the impresssion that she gives in the documentary, but I don't think it was the case. Having said that and having grown up in and around the sport in those years, the interviews aside, which I did enjoy, I thought the program was tripe. Full of inaccuracies and geared towards a sensasionalist viewing. An example, Jim Clark did NOT get thrown from his car and 15 feet into the air. Where the producers dreamt that up I have no idea. They also seemed to imply that the Roger Williamson accident was a seminal moment when in actuality it was not. Mere months later Cevert was killed at Watkins Glen. I think they did the Nurburgring a disservice as for 1971 the GP did return there and the cars were still flying over the jumps. The black and white footage of Spa 1966 was very interesting but why would they use stills from the movie 'Grand Prix'? Ah well....

To be honest it showed the human truth of the 'golden age,' that real people died for no good reason. Us spectators got a hard-on by proxy seeing these men risk their lives and idolized them for it, and one of the main reasons people constantly complain about the current racing is that it lacks the danger. I think it's heartless that all some people wanted to see was a race at any price.

[Gemini]

Having just seen it yesterday I'll say that yes you are right, that is the impresssion that she gives in the documentary, but I don't think it was the case. Having said that and having grown up in and around the sport in those years, the interviews aside, which I did enjoy, I thought the program was tripe. Full of inaccuracies and geared towards a sensasionalist viewing. An example, Jim Clark did NOT get thrown from his car and 15 feet into the air. Where the producers dreamt that up I have no idea. They also seemed to imply that the Roger Williamson accident was a seminal moment when in actuality it was not. Mere months later Cevert was killed at Watkins Glen. I think they did the Nurburgring a disservice as for 1971 the GP did return there and the cars were still flying over the jumps. The black and white footage of Spa 1966 was very interesting but why would they use stills from the movie 'Grand Prix'? Ah well....

Wasn't that words in movie said by Jacky Stewart?

Edited by Gemini, 03 April 2011 - 06:52.

[klyster]

It certainly made Colin Chapman seem a little more than callous.

It was good hearing a drivers wife's perspective though, Jochen's missus seemed very candid.

Edited by klyster, 03 April 2011 - 09:37.

[olliek88]

Watched it last night, did seem to paint chapman as a heartless villain interested in winning at all costs. The footage of, i think it was bandinis crash in monaco and williamsons at zandvoort was horrific, can't believe they show Bandini just burning in his car, felt ill watching that bit.