57 replies to this topic

[Bernoulli]

I don't know if he has many fans in this thread. Or for WRC as a matter of fact.

Anyway, I felt it a need to start a thread for one of the most talented drivers in WRC currently, the one who is the closest to challenging the impeccable Sebastian Loeb. Here's to yet another virtuoso in car racing from Finland... Jar-Matti Latvala

[Scotracer]

As long as he stops crashing the damn thing.

[Bernoulli]

As long as he stops crashing the damn thing.

True. He just needs to control his emotions. He is too fast for WRC

The quality of WRC has plummeted a lot over the last decade and I do not consider Loeb as an all time great driver which is not what his CV says. But I am glad that Jari-Matti has brought a bit of enigma into WRC with his unbelivable rash/fast driving. It is obvious that this guy is hugely talented, and that he can turn corners in WRC rallies with speeds similar to those of F1 cars . He has shown a lot more improvement this term. Too bad the Jordan Rally will begin only tomorrow. I was so glued to seeing it today. Mostly because of Jari-Matti. I am a guy who decided not to keep much track on WRC because of the huge decline in quality , but Jari-Matti has made me follow it thoroughly again.

[hotstickyslick]

True. He just needs to control his emotions. He is too fast for WRC

The quality of WRC has plummeted a lot over the last decade and I do not consider Loeb as an all time great driver which is not what his CV says.

[jjcale]

True. He just needs to control his emotions. He is too fast for WRC

+ 1

Jari-Matti is the most exciting driver in the world.

[noikeee]

I like him. If you look at him he looks like an ordinary boring nerd, but dude's completely mental when it comes to driving the thing. He may not be the best driver overall but he's the quickest one at times, and definitely adds interest to the championship.

[MikeTekRacing]

The quality of WRC has plummeted a lot over the last decade and I do not consider Loeb as an all time great driver which is not what his CV says.

That's the Schumacher syndrome
when you are that good others start looking really bad

nothing to worry about though

[BRG]

Loeb has probably written off half a dozen cars in his entire career. Latvala had done at least three so far this year. Which one has the real talent? The man with 62 WRC rally wins (well over twice as many as anyone else) or the man with 62 wrecked rally cars but only 4 victories in four seasons?

They used to call Colin McRae a crasher, but the statistics show that he in fact retired from fewer rallies than some of those reckoned to be safe pairs of hands, such as Tommi Makinen. Until Latvala learns that speed isn't everything, he will never be more than an also-ran.

[Bernoulli]

Loeb has probably written off half a dozen cars in his entire career. Latvala had done at least three so far this year. Which one has the real talent? The man with 62 WRC rally wins (well over twice as many as anyone else) or the man with 62 wrecked rally cars but only 4 victories in four seasons?

They used to call Colin McRae a crasher, but the statistics show that he in fact retired from fewer rallies than some of those reckoned to be safe pairs of hands, such as Tommi Makinen. Until Latvala learns that speed isn't everything, he will never be more than an also-ran.

Loeb didn't take WRC by storm when he started. He started in 2001 and won the overall title for the first time in 2004.

Jari-Matti has shown that if he controls his head, he is a world class driver and he is likened by many to Colin McRae. This is the breakout season for him. He had his best start ever of his career this season and he overtook Loeb in the Swedish Rally.

[Turini]

Loeb didn't take WRC by storm when he started. He started in 2001 and won the overall title for the first time in 2004.

Huh... he was actually one of the quickest asphalt drivers when he started already...

Jari-Matti has shown that if he controls his head, he is a world class driver and he is likened by many to Colin McRae. This is the breakout season for him. He had his best start ever of his career this season and he overtook Loeb in the Swedish Rally.

Wasn't exactly difficult when you look at his past season starts...

[Bernoulli]

Huh... he was actually one of the quickest asphalt drivers when he started already...

But he won his first major in 2004, not 2001. Being one of the quickest asphalt drivers isn't exactly what you call 'taking the WRC by storm'.

Wasn't exactly difficult when you look at his past season starts...

So what's your point?

Edited by Bernoulli, 15 April 2011 - 07:58.

[hotstickyslick]

But he won his first major in 2004, not 2001. Being one of the quickest asphalt drivers isn't exactly what you call 'taking the WRC by storm'.



So what's your point?

What would you call 'taking the WRC by storm' then?


I take it you don't like Loeb much.

[Bernoulli]

What would you call 'taking the WRC by storm' then?

Well, you are not in primary school anymore, are you?

I take it you don't like Loeb much.

No. I like Jari-Matti more. Loeb didn't have many competitions. And he didn't help WRC's cause in terms of increasing it's popularity.

Edited by Bernoulli, 15 April 2011 - 13:25.

[hotstickyslick]

Well, you are not in primary school anymore, are you?

Are you going to answer my question?

No. I like Jari-Matti more. Loeb didn't have many competitions. And he didn't help WRC's cause in terms of increasing it's popularity.

I like Latvala also. But I'm not taking anything away from Loeb's status as one of the greatest of all time, either.

Edited by hotstickyslick, 15 April 2011 - 13:27.

[DanardiF1]

But he won his first major in 2004, not 2001. Being one of the quickest asphalt drivers isn't exactly what you call 'taking the WRC by storm'.



So what's your point?

+1

Otherwise you'd have to add Panizzi and Sarrazin to these drivers taking WRC by storm...

Loeb became the greatest, but he wasn't when he started. He was just another fast Frenchman who liked the black stuff. Kind of like Schumacher, who was seen as another Mercedes Junior driver when he started...

[Bernoulli]

Are you going to answer my question?

Oh God. *ramming my head on the wall*

I like Latvala also. But I'm not taking anything away from Loeb's status as one of the greatest of all time, either.

One of the greatest drivers. Hmm, how many are in your list?

[Tenmantaylor]

Sorry to go further OT but people discrediting Loeb due to WRC not being as good as it was irks me. Like Schumacher, Loeb has beaten everyone of his generation and the ones preceding him such as McRae, Makinen, Sainz, Gronholm, Solberg and Burns and all by some margin. Solberg was the only one who beat him over a season and that was Loeb's first full year! Since then he has been invincible. He's a legend but no one likes to admit it for some strange reason.

[hotstickyslick]

Oh God. *ramming my head on the wall*

You have issues.

One of the greatest drivers. Hmm, how many are in your list?

A few.

Sorry to go further OT but people discrediting Loeb due to WRC not being as good as it was irks me. Like Schumacher, Loeb has beaten everyone of his generation and the ones preceding him such as McRae, Makinen, Sainz, Gronholm, Solberg and Burns and all by some margin. Solberg was the only one who beat him over a season and that was Loeb's first full year! Since then he has been invincible. He's a legend but no one likes to admit it for some strange reason.

If we go back to 2003, Loeb had two former world champions as teammates which puts him on another level when we compare him to Schumacher in F1.

Edited by hotstickyslick, 15 April 2011 - 14:08.

[Tenmantaylor]

If we go back to 2003, Loeb had two former world champions as teammates which puts him on another level when we compare him to Schumacher in F1.

To be more accurate it would have been like Schumacher having Mansell and Senna in the same team in 92/93 and beating them both in the championship.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 15 April 2011 - 14:19.

[Bernoulli]

You have issues.

Pot. Kettle. Black

[hotstickyslick]

Pot. Kettle. Black

I'm not the one ramming my head against a wall over something so trivial.

[kosmic33]

Loeb didn't take WRC by storm when he started.

Dumbest post ever!

He started competing in the wrc in 2001.
He won the world Junior title in....... 2001!
He also finished 2nd o/a in Corsica in a naturally aspired 2wd xsara kit car.

In 2002 Citroen entered 7 rounds
Loeb won the 1st one - Monte Carlo on the road but lost it because of a time penalty, still being classified 2nd
He also won in germany

In 2003 they entered the full championship
He blew 2 of the greatest drivers of all time (McRae & Sainz) into the weeds, won 3 rounds and missed out on winning the title by 1 point to a driver that started competing in the wrc on a regular basis in 1999

He then won 7 titles in a row.


Jari Matti's 5 crashes from 6 starts in the brc in the 2002 brc is clearly much more impressive though.........

[Bernoulli]

Dumbest post ever!

He started competing in the wrc in 2001.
He won the world Junior title in....... 2001!
He also finished 2nd o/a in Corsica in a naturally aspired 2wd xsara kit car.

In 2002 Citroen entered 7 rounds
Loeb won the 1st one - Monte Carlo on the road but lost it because of a time penalty, still being classified 2nd
He also won in germany

In 2003 they entered the full championship
He blew 2 of the greatest drivers of all time (McRae & Sainz) into the weeds, won 3 rounds and missed out on winning the title by 1 point to a driver that started competing in the wrc on a regular basis in 1999

He then won 7 titles in a row.


Jari Matti's 5 crashes from 6 starts in the brc in the 2002 brc is clearly much more impressive though.........

Your comprehension is seriously flawed.

Just one question.

Did Loeb win WRC title in 2002 or 2003?

Yes or No?

Edited by Bernoulli, 15 April 2011 - 16:13.

[Bernoulli]

I'm not the one ramming my head against a wall over something so trivial.

Well, for your kind information, 'ramming my head against the wall' doesn't mean exactly what it looks like in dictionary. When you're writing 'ROFLMAO' are you really on the floor?

You really need to have some basic knowledge about English language, metaphors, proverbs and most importantly, what sarcasm is.

[Andy865]

This is a great thread.

Latvala is not on loebs level.

[jjcale]

When/how did this become the Seb Loeb thread?

[Sammyosammy]

Loeb has probably written off half a dozen cars in his entire career. Latvala had done at least three so far this year. Which one has the real talent? The man with 62 WRC rally wins (well over twice as many as anyone else) or the man with 62 wrecked rally cars but only 4 victories in four seasons?

They used to call Colin McRae a crasher, but the statistics show that he in fact retired from fewer rallies than some of those reckoned to be safe pairs of hands, such as Tommi Makinen. Until Latvala learns that speed isn't everything, he will never be more than an also-ran.

I just had to, I mean had to login..

I`m one hundred percent sure that Nokia phones suck, Koskenkorva is for jerks. Finns suck in hockey, Marimekko dresses grannies, Porsches made in Uusikaupunki plays in wrong leaque?

Right?

Jari-Mari is not a perfect rally driver. But fast he is.



P.S. I really do like fish & chips

[Bernoulli]

I just had to, I mean had to login..

I`m one hundred percent sure that Nokia phones suck, Koskenkorva is for jerks. Finns suck in hockey, Marimekko dresses grannies, Porsches made in Uusikaupunki plays in wrong leaque?

Right?

Jari-Mari is not a perfect rally driver. But fast he is.



P.S. I really do like fish & chips

Sorry to burst your bubble. Finland is the least corrupt country, and their HDI is among the top 3 ,if my memory ain't wrong and yes, they have got amazing drivers.

Jari-Matti just needs to control his emotions. He is hugely talented.

[Sammyosammy]

Sorry to burst your bubble. Finland is the least corrupt country, and their HDI is among the top 3 ,if my memory ain't wrong and yes, they have got amazing drivers.

Jari-Matti just needs to control his emotions. He is hugely talented.

You might want to guide someone not so familiar with finns or Finland? I´m pretty cool, sitting by the tv here at my home in Finland. Was only answering that "everythinthatcomesfromthatannoyingcountryinnorthisapieceofshit"-guy..

Peace man

Edited by Sammyosammy, 15 April 2011 - 16:44.

[kismet]

Latvala may be an also-ran but he entertains me. I appreciate his driving may not be up to the high standards befitting a WRC frontrunner and acknowledge that it may indeed be a bit insulting to Loeb that someone like Jari-Matti is considered a challenger but, what can I say, he's fun and I like having him around! I'm easy like that.

[BRG]

Jari-Mari is not a perfect rally driver. But fast he is.

Quite so. Fast some of the time and in the bushes far too much of the rest of the time.

Finland has produced many brilliant rally drivers - Alen, Mikkola, Makinen (two), Vatanen and many more too numerous to list. Latvala isn't one of them and isn't really showing much sign of developing into one. And to compare him, as some here are, to Loeb, who is probably the best all-round rally driver of all, is simply ridiculous

PS. I have a Nokia phone. And I like saunas.

[Sammyosammy]

Quite so. Fast some of the time and in the bushes far too much of the rest of the time.

Finland has produced many brilliant rally drivers - Alen, Mikkola, Makinen (two), Vatanen and many more too numerous to list. Latvala isn't one of them and isn't really showing much sign of developing into one. And to compare him, as some here are, to Loeb, who is probably the best all-round rally driver of all, is simply ridiculous

PS. I have a Nokia phone. And I like saunas.

To compare anyone with Mr. Loeb is insane. The One may be lucky to drive with C`s when there`s only two serious manufacturers but still.. a hell of the driver. Since You are coping with sauna.. why not try to do the same with finnish drivers.. peace

[4MEN]

I don't know if he has many fans in this thread. Or for WRC as a matter of fact.

Anyway, I felt it a need to start a thread for one of the most talented drivers in WRC currently, the one who is the closest to challenging the impeccable Sebastian Loeb.

You should open a thread about Ogier, then.

Edited by 4MEN, 15 April 2011 - 17:51.

[Bernoulli]

Jari-Matti finished 2nd in the Jordan Rally.

Ogier leapfrongs him by just 0.2 seconds.

[jcbc3]

Jari-Matti finished 2nd in the Jordan Rally.

Ogier leapfrongs him by just 0.2 seconds.

'leapfrogged', running first on the road. guess that puts Latvala into perspective...

[kosmic33]

'leapfrogged', running first on the road. guess that puts Latvala into perspective...

Ah now to be fair they were running 9th and 10th on the road for the last (Power) stage.....

[kismet]

We're ridiculing drivers who finish a WRC event 0.1 sec off the winner now? Seriously?!? What about the rest of the field; surely they lost even more embarrassingly?

[Taxi]

We're ridiculing drivers who finish a WRC event 0.1 sec off the winner now? Seriously?!? What about the rest of the field; surely they lost even more embarrassingly?

Jari Matti and Ogier are [by far] the 2 most talented drivers of this generation. I expect a lot more battles from this two in the future. 

[BRG]

Jari Matti and Ogier are [by far] the 2 most talented drivers of this generation. I expect a lot more battles from this two in the future. 

The two most talented drivers of this generation WHO ARE IN WRC. What about Hanninen, Meeke, and the others?

[Bernoulli]

The two most talented drivers of this generation WHO ARE IN WRC. What about Hanninen, Meeke, and the others?

Jari-Matti and Loeb are the best in WRC at present.

[Taxi]

The two most talented drivers of this generation WHO ARE IN WRC. What about Hanninen, Meeke, and the others?

Good prospects. But not at the same level, IMO.

[Professor Arturo]

Your comprehension is seriously flawed.

Just one question.

Did Loeb win WRC title in 2002 or 2003?

Yes or No?

I am not sure what is the point in that? Loeb drove in 7 rallies in 2002 and lost the title by 1 point in 2003. In that time he destroyed McRae and Sainz in the same car. How many full years has Latvala had in WRC so far? Yet he has not gotten even close to the title.

The two most talented drivers of this generation WHO ARE IN WRC. What about Hanninen, Meeke, and the others?

You dont seriously suggest Hanninen and Meeke are as good as Ogier or even Latvala?

[kosmic33]

You dont seriously suggest Hanninen and Meeke are as good as Ogier or even Latvala?

Hanninen has been on fantastic form the last 2 years in the irc, and if anything his tarmac prowess makes him a better all rounder than latvala.

Meeke has always been fast, only missed out on a factory seat to Sordo because of his crashing habit when he drove the C2 S1600, is highly rated by Citroen Sport. He did a massive amount of development work for them, especially on the c4 and c2r2 and he hammered ogier the last time he competed against him in a JWRC car (until the car broke down)
http://www.wrc.com/r...mes/?stageno=17

[Tenmantaylor]

Just watched highlights of Rally Jordan final day. Anyone questioning the skill and daring of these modern drivers is an absolute fool. The full screen onboard from Latvala's car was some of the most impressive driving I've seen in rallying, he was fully committed at every apex on a particularly treacherous hillside stage full of blind crests where a tiny mistake could've been disastrous. I couldn't even make out which way the road was going alot of the time and it looked like he had turned the wrong way but the pace notes were spot on (not that I could understand!), it was like he was driving a well known favourite backroute near his house. Then the finale with Ogier (another prodigiously talented Sebastien) was amazing, closest finish in WRC history at 0.2s. Unbelievable! % Wise that's probably one of the closest finishes in all of motorsport history (relative to time driven in event).

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 20 April 2011 - 22:52.

[Professor Arturo]

Hanninen has been on fantastic form the last 2 years in the irc, and if anything his tarmac prowess makes him a better all rounder than latvala.

Okay, so if you had the choice who to drive for your team, you would pick Hanninen over Latvala?
IRC is a different level compared to WRC to anyway.

Meeke has always been fast, only missed out on a factory seat to Sordo because of his crashing habit when he drove the C2 S1600, is highly rated by Citroen Sport. He did a massive amount of development work for them, especially on the c4 and c2r2 and he hammered ogier the last time he competed against him in a JWRC car (until the car broke down)
http://www.wrc.com/r...mes/?stageno=17

If Citroen has so much info on Meeke and knows so much about him, then it says it all when they have Ogier in WRC, not Meeke.
As for the German race, why dont you compare for how long Ogier had been in WRC and for how long Meeke had been. I would love to see them in equal cars now, we both know that the one getting hammered would be Meeke.

[kosmic33]

If Citroen has so much info on Meeke and knows so much about him, then it says it all when they have Ogier in WRC, not Meeke.
As for the German race, why dont you compare for how long Ogier had been in WRC and for how long Meeke had been. I would love to see them in equal cars now, we both know that the one getting hammered would be Meeke.

You didnt read my post properly!
Meeke got looked over for the works (kronos) drive in 2006 because he crashed too much. I never said anything about him getting ogiers drive.

In 2008 when meeke destroyed Ogier in germany he had been out of the wrc for 2 years.
And lets not forget that he was driving a self-funded (well sponsors), underpowered privateer Clio against Ogiers full factory C2

Ogier only got a drive in the works team last year (2010) and lets not forget that Meeke started 2010 as the reigning IRC champion, getting paid a far better wage to drive the Peugeot than Ogier got to drive the C4. And lets face it, Peugeot weren't going to allow Citroen to take their star driver now were they?


Latvala is now entering his 7th season competing in a top level car in the WRC.
83 events in a world rally car and just 4 wins.
Not exactly impressive, especially when you start trying to work out how many WRcars he's totaled since he 1st got into one. Has to be 20 by now, probably a lot more. Destroyed 2 in 5 rallys in the 2002 brc alone.......

I'd be giving someone else a go by now if I was malcom, regardless of how fast latvala can be...

[montoyasminion]

Did Jari-Matti finish 2nd in the championship and make Mikko look slow in the second half of 2010 in a car that Ford had clearly given up on, or am I just imagining this?

[kosmic33]

Did Jari-Matti finish 2nd in the championship and make Mikko look slow in the second half of 2010 in a car that Ford had clearly given up on, or am I just imagining this?

Yep.
He just managed to beat a privateer and a rookie.

Unlike Hirvonen, who finished behind them and rallyings Rubens Barrichello.....

[montoyasminion]

But he did finish second in the world right? He did beat his teammate right? And you want to replace him? You know he is the youngest ever WRC winner right? You do know that he is only 26, and Seb won his first title when he was 30? I don't get it. He doesn't crash like he used to, and he has been the best Ford driver for a year and a half. What else do you want from him?

[kosmic33]

But he did finish second in the world right? He did beat his teammate right? And you want to replace him? You know he is the youngest ever WRC winner right? You do know that he is only 26, and Seb won his first title when he was 30? I don't get it. He doesn't crash like he used to, and he has been the best Ford driver for a year and a half. What else do you want from him?

Who said anything about;
A: Replacing him, or,
B: Hirvonen

In the last 12 months Hirvonen has had:
1 x 1st
1 x 2nd
4 x 4th
4 x 5th
1 x 6th
and 2 dnf's

Not exactly team leader material, although he does seem to be ahead of jari-matti in the 2011 standings.....