56 replies to this topic

[Peter Leversedge]

Ron McPhail

Edited by Peter Leversedge, 17 April 2011 - 07:18.

[David McKinney]

If you're including salesmen, engineers, mechanics, dismantlers, panelbeaters, car painters, tyre repairers, motorcycle dealers and truck drivers, wouldn't a list of who wasn't in the motor trade be shorter?

Of the top strata (before about 1970), I can only think of Tom Clark (industrialist), Hyslop, Amon and Buchanan (sheepfarmers), Marwood (dairy farmer), Dawson (pig farmer), Quirk and Lawton (builders), Gilbert (restaurateur) and Histed (architect), and some of them had car businesses as a sideline, or would later

All the others I can think of were in the motor trade in one way or another

[Levin68]

As a yoof I used to wander into Syd Jensen Motors on Princess Street in Palmerston North and admire the selection, sometimes including an AC Aceca, a Jag or two, or a Healey 100S, but only rarely a Lotus, a brand in whose thrall I spent my boyhood (and large lumps of my adulthood!). Did Syd actively run the business or was in his name? Sadly, I knew much too little of the local heroes, my eyes focused far away in Scotland...

[wenoopy]

All the others I can think of were in the motor trade in one way or another

If you include Gavin Quirk in your "top strata", then medical student John Horton would count as non-motor trade. Malcolm Gill was an engineering student, not sure what branch, Allan Freeman was a travelling salesman (?paint?) until after he stopped racing, wasn't he? And did Ron and Les Moore have motor trade connections apart from the fairground "Wall of Death"?

But an overwhelming majority seem to have been car dealers/salesmen, mechanics auto-electricians car painters etc etc.

If you widen the net to saloon cars, there were chemists, a court registrar, several doctors and probably a lot more farmers.

[hatrat]

and Histed (architect),

I think John Histed was a surveyor - but he definitely wasn't in the car trade. Wasn't a single seater driver (Lionel Bulcraig?) a milkman?

Edited by hatrat, 17 April 2011 - 11:40.

[wenoopy]

I think John Histed was a surveyor - but he definitely wasn't in the car trade. Wasn't a single seater driver (Lionel Bulcraig?) a milkman?

That would be Brian Prescott. Lionel was definitely in the car trade, at Kawakawa.

[David McKinney]

If you include Gavin Quirk in your "top strata", then medical student John Horton would count as non-motor trade. Malcolm Gill was an engineering student, not sure what branch, Allan Freeman was a travelling salesman (?paint?) until after he stopped racing, wasn't he? And did Ron and Les Moore have motor trade connections apart from the fairground "Wall of Death"?

Forgot about Horton and the Moores, but cheated a bit by counting Gill under my "engineer" heading. He might have been more civil, of course. You might be right about Freeman, but he was certainly running a car yard in 1962 (a year after he stopped racing), if not earlier

[thunder427]

...I'll play your silly Game !!!!!!!!!!!!.......Niel Stuart/Mechanic...Ron Slyvester/Sydenham Park Car sales/ Sydenham Chev Spares......Frank Shuter/Garage Proprietor (Etc!).....Ray Archerbald/Archerbalds-Jaguar.......Stanton Brothers/Automotive/Mechanical-engineering...Ron Rutherford/Garage Proprietor.......Wally Darrell/Tyres.......Bill Clarke/Hamco Speed Shop........David's right,just about every body was connected to the trade ,one way or another!!!!!!!!!!!.......example; 90% of the Aranui Speedway racers,bikes or cars were in the trade , think Wrecking........regards thunder427/MJ

Edited by thunder427, 18 April 2011 - 14:26.

[Talon9999]

If you're including salesmen, engineers, mechanics, dismantlers, panelbeaters, car painters, tyre repairers, motorcycle dealers and truck drivers, wouldn't a list of who wasn't in the motor trade be shorter?

Of the top strata (before about 1970), I can only think of Tom Clark (industrialist), Hyslop, Amon and Buchanan (sheepfarmers), Marwood (dairy farmer), Dawson (pig farmer), Quirk and Lawton (builders), Gilbert (restaurateur) and Histed (architect), and some of them had car businesses as a sideline, or would later

All the others I can think of were in the motor trade in one way or another

[ronmac]

Well I think it is interesting to know what race drivers do between race meetings..!!
Peter Leversedge..Auto gearbox technician and taxi radio fitter..Ian Munt exhaust systems..Evan Munt chev parts retailer..
Bill Harris garage proprieter..John Osbourne driver training..Rod Mc Elrea car dealer..Andrew Mc Elrea race car team owner..
Lin Neilson car dealer..Barry Vuyk (as in poke)car dealer..Jim mc Comb mechanic..Harry Pierson car wrecker..Alec Dickie
petrol bowser engineer..Murray Baker motor engineer..John Jacobsen car dealer..Des Wild car dealer..

[aibremner]

When I visited Chris Amon in the early 80s, he was making a good fist of growing cows, not sheep. After all, he lived in Bulls! He was very proud of his new automatic milking carousel and when he showed it to me, it had milk cows bolted on, not sheeps.

[David McKinney]

Chris diversified after he returned from his racing career. I'm pretty sure it was a sheep farm when he started racing

[wenoopy]

Chris diversified after he returned from his racing career. I'm pretty sure it was a sheep farm when he started racing

In 'Forza Amon", Eoin Young says 'the farm ran sheep and beef cattle...' and Amon's first driving lesson (at age 6) was from a shepherd on the farm. aibremner's comment probably shows the inverse relationship between wool and dairy prices over the decades.

[David McKinney]

Yes

My 'diversification' comment was based on the fact that I know he was crop-farming at some point in the '80s

[thunder427]

...here we go again........mainly Christchurch.....Barry Brown/Car sales/Colombo st........Pete De Lore/pre-delivery......Clyde Collins/Car sales.....Lynn Neilson/ Carsales/Timaru ??........Ernie Sprauge/Garage Proprietor/Timaru......BIKEs/Tommy Mcleary/Motorcycle shop......Jim Mullins/automtive Tuner (Mini's)......Some other names from that era!!....Bruce Kinset/Vanguard....Howard Heasley/Humber80.....Giff Tait/Corvette powered Chev Coupe/Nelson....Housey Logan/Palm Beach Allard/Nelson.....Winsom Watson/Austin Healey/Nelson..(spelling may be incorrect!!).......Heck Green/The Wizard Engineer/Chch.....that will do for now!!!!.....regards thunder427/MJ

[David McKinney]

Jim Mullins was a farmer when he started racing, Harold Heasley a builder

[David Manton]

Four from Hawkes Bay are: Doctors Dick Langley and Dave Bruton, limestone quarry operator Bruce Webster and the fastest furrier in New Zealand, Des McDonough.
One from Auckland: Lotus single-seater driver journalist John Wilson.

[David McKinney]

Never knew what Bruce Webster did!
I would have called John Wilson a journalist driver rather than driver journalist...
Speaking of Des McDonagh, if you were in HB at the time he was running the Marshall, you might be interested in this:
http://www.trademe.c...n-368912780.htm

[wenoopy]

Never knew what Bruce Webster did!
I would have called John Wilson a journalist driver rather than driver journalist...
Speaking of Des McDonagh, if you were in HB at the time he was running the Marshall, you might be interested in this:
http://www.trademe.c...n-368912780.htm

Continuing on the Anti-Topic Theme - Dene Hollier and Baron Robertson both ran Motor Mower businesses, although Dene probably was into farm machinery/bikes also. Jack Malcolm ran an electric appliance store in Huntly for years, although I don't know what he may have done earlier apart from getting his pilot's licence in 1934, and prewar speedway .

Gerald(Jiggs) Alexander and Cooper S driver Hugh Kettlewell were lawyers. The appearance of off-the-shelf racing saloons in the mid 60's brought competitive cars to the masses - Mustang man 'Frank Bryan' ran a motel in Parnell, Mini Cooper pedaller Shack Manon ran Takapuna Mobile Fruit Supply, and woman drivers like Mary Donald etc weren't motor trade people.

Bill Thomasen was an earthmoving contractor, then topdressing pilot before getting involved in wheeling and dealing in cars, including racing cars. Len Gilbert had also been a Topdressing pilot, chicken farmer and one of the boys in the band before his restaurant days.
But the motor trade and farming seems the preferred option in the Nostalgia years.

[ronmac]

AND AGAIN...Pete de Lore/driveway paving...Giff Tait/Tait Wineries..Peter Read /(sports cars)Collecting classic cars and
rental homes..Larry Mulholland/B.M.C. Spares and transmission gearboxes..George Begg/race car builder and tractor safety frames..
Aon Hyde/race car builder.fitness equipment.mobile home builder.mechanic.earthquake damage repairs.etc etc.. Denns Marwood/
Performance Developments..Dave Craw/motor spares manager..Alan Milligan/service station..Stan Prestidge(1947 ford v8 racer )
builder..Bruce Bellis/restaurant operator and farmer..Ronnie Moore/speedway racer training..

[wenoopy]

..George Begg/race car builder and tractor safety frames..

Shame on You, Ron. You forgot to mention the George Begg sheep handler/inverter. He says he made about 4000 of this labour- and back-pain-saving device before a vaccine was developed to cure footrot in sheep. Does anyone have a photo of one?

Stu

[David McKinney]

Speaking of Mary Donald, her husband Jim Carney was boss of the Marsden Point oil refinery. Although remembered as Jim Richards's sponsor (and Mary's husband) he also raced for a few years

And Mini-driver Hugh's surname was Kettelwell

[wenoopy]

Speaking of Mary Donald, her husband Jim Carney was boss of the Marsden Point oil refinery. Although remembered as Jim Richards's sponsor (and Mary's husband) he also raced for a few years

And Mini-driver Hugh's surname was Kettelwell

I knew there was a 50/50 chance of being wrong! My brother John worked in the same law firm as Hugh in the 60's!

Stu

[David McKinney]

No, not as even as that. Most people with that name spell it Kettlewell

[ronmac]

Good Evening Stu Wenoopy..No did.nt know that about George Begg and the animal frames..I do know that when he was in
business in Christchurch.he was renting the same property that I purchased for my car dismantling business..But I did.nt see any
left over animal frames or tractor safety frames or even any Begg racing cars lying around.. I think it may have been the building
that some R.A. Specials were built. too.. Ron.

[hiteknz]

Good Evening Stu Wenoopy..No did.nt know that about George Begg and the animal frames..I do know that when he was in
business in Christchurch.he was renting the same property that I purchased for my car dismantling business..But I did.nt see any
left over animal frames or tractor safety frames or even any Begg racing cars lying around.. I think it may have been the building
that some R.A. Specials were built. too.. Ron.

Where I am at Drury ,South Auckland ,I am just across the road from the building where Begg and Alan were ,in the early seventies I brought a radiator,etc from George and it was sent up to be picked up there ,probably not a day goes by that I am not reminded of George by that building of course it is used by some one else these days

[wenoopy]

David - you are sure about Hugh Kettelwell, aren't you. Not another Alan/Allen/Allan fiasco I hope!
(Later)
Pukekohe GP programmes used both spellings over 3 years, but seem to have settled for your one. A lengthy online report of a recent court judgement he was involved in calls him Kettlewell! Turns out that he is now a consultant for the law firm I use (infrequently) as "Walter Hugh Kettelwell". He must be pushing 75 years - making too much to retire.

Ronmac - George Begg made the sheep handlers in Drummond, Southland, probably in the late 1950's - early 60's, before he got bored with the lack of night-life in Drummond and designed and built a racing car while his wife was away in UK visiting relatives.

Stu (not Stew)

[ronmac]

OK Stewen Oopy..I.ll be very careful with the spelling from now on..Re George Begg,,Last time I was talking to Robin Officer.
(race car body builder for George Begg ) Robin told me that he heard there was a party to celebrate the completion of one of the Begg
race cars and went to see George about the details..Mr.Begg gave him $20 and said that he was.nt invited.and should spend the $20
down at the local pub.!! (George must have heard about a previous party in CHCH.where Robin started the motor mower and ran it into the swim pool ) Regards Ron.

[David McKinney]

100% sure he was Walter Hugh Kettelwell. One of his mates made the point to me when I was reporting a race WH was in and I always meticulous about it from then on. My guess is he'd be early 70s now

[wenoopy]

One driver I had forgotten was Ferris De Joux. He was a window dresser for department stores in Auckland. Hardly surprising that he was involved in an artistic job when you remember some of his car creations.

[donharper]

Peter Leversedge ; you really do start things up.
I made a list when the thread appeared thinking most on my list would appear very quickly.
This is what I have left.
Jim Richards , Papakura/Maunrewa.
Grant Walker ,Papakura , Grant Walker Motors , Bayswater , Vic , Aus
Rod Coppins , Ward and Coppins , Gisborne
John Ward , Ward and Coppins , Gisborne
Feo Stanton , Stanton Motors , Tauranga
Leo Leonard , Leo Leonard Motors ? , Timaru
Paul Fahey , P & R Motors ? , Papakura
Don Halliday , Auckland
Gary Pederson , Glen Eden Motor Bodies ?
David Oxton , Oxton Motors , Newmarket
Frank (and Paul) Radisich , Henderson Central Motors ?
Jim Palmer ????
Graeme Lawrence , Lawrence Motors , Hamilton
Ross Stone , Tuakau
I am sure the following had Car Sales Yards:
Frank Bryan
Johnny (and Brett) Riley
Jack Nazer

[David Manton]

Peter Leversedge ; you really do start things up.
I made a list when the thread appeared thinking most on my list would appear very quickly.
This is what I have left.
Jim Richards , Papakura/Maunrewa.
Grant Walker ,Papakura , Grant Walker Motors , Bayswater , Vic , Aus
Rod Coppins , Ward and Coppins , Gisborne
John Ward , Ward and Coppins , Gisborne
Feo Stanton , Stanton Motors , Tauranga
Leo Leonard , Leo Leonard Motors ? , Timaru
Paul Fahey , P & R Motors ? , Papakura
Don Halliday , Auckland
Gary Pederson , Glen Eden Motor Bodies ?
David Oxton , Oxton Motors , Newmarket
Frank (and Paul) Radisich , Henderson Central Motors ?
Jim Palmer ????
Graeme Lawrence , Lawrence Motors , Hamilton
Ross Stone , Tuakau
I am sure the following had Car Sales Yards:
Frank Bryan
Johnny (and Brett) Riley
Jack Nazer

Jim Palmer, Hamilton, is the owner of George Palmer Motors in the same premises in the main street of Hamilton as almost 50 years ago, the business founded by his father racing driver George.
Roly Levis, Putaruru, car painter, later car yard owner, Tauranga

[ronmac]

Good list Don...Well done that man..!!
Jack Nazer..Car dismantler..Auckland.
Leo Leonard..Speedway Motors ..Timaru.

[ronmac]

Not only but also...
Brent Hawes..Speedway Motors..Timaru..

[wenoopy]

Peter Leversedge ; you really do start things up.
I made a list when the thread appeared thinking most on my list would appear very quickly.
This is what I have left.

Rod Coppins , Ward and Coppins , Gisborne
Feo Stanton , Stanton Motors , Tauranga
Don Halliday , Auckland
Ross Stone , Tuakau
Frank Bryan

Answers or questions.

Coppins was originally a country boy from Brookby/Manurewa wasn't he? A farmer?

Whatever happened to Feo(dor) Stanton. Is he still among the living?

There were 2 Don Hallidays in the 1970's. (or were they Halidays?)
The FVee champion ( & constructor) from the Bay of Plenty who later built "TDC" S2000 sports cars in UK, and
The Shellsport saloon champion from Auckland who later built Halidig mini front end loaders/diggers and still prepares cars?

Ross Stone - the (3?) Stone Bros were farmers from Onewhero but the Cuda FPacific car shows a more mechanical than agricultural outlook. I guess they were racing car mechanics first, then drivers.

Frank Bryan (= Norm Barry) - Barrycourt Motel/Convention centre in Parnell. Built a Catamaran or Trimaran later (called it Barrycourt). Could have run a car yard under another name maybe.

.....

Bob Eade - what did he do. Ran a car yard later in life and also sold real estate. Was the 250F really the first car he ever raced?

[David McKinney]

Pretty sure Feo died some years ago

I believe Bob Eade had raced an MG some years before he stepped into the 250F. I had a feeling he was a builder, but wouldn't put money on it

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by wenoopy
.....Ross Stone - the (3?) Stone Bros were farmers from Onewhero but the Cuda FPacific car shows a more mechanical than agricultural outlook. I guess they were racing car mechanics first, then drivers.....

They were club racers when I first knew them, just two of them, one actually lived just up the road from me in Silverdale.

Bob Eade - what did he do. Ran a car yard later in life and also sold real estate. Was the 250F really the first car he ever raced?

Any relation to Don Eade?

If so, is he the one who taught Don the infamous expression, "Right as a bank!"?

[David McKinney]

They were club racers when I first knew them, just two of them, one actually lived just up the road from me in Silverdale.

You surprise me. Jim came to note in NZ in Minis, then an Anglia, and spent time as a mechanic in F1 (I think - Europe, anway), then came back and raced the first FF Cuda in NZ. Younger brother Ross took over the driving of the FF cars, moving on to Formula Pacific when the brothers built their FP Cudas
I can't see where any Australian club-racing careers could fit into that

Edited by David McKinney, 22 April 2011 - 16:16.

[CarlRabbidge]

You surprise me. Jim came to note in NZ in Minis, then an Anglia, and spent time as a mechanic in F1 (I think - Europe, anway), then came back and raced the first FF Cuda in NZ. Younger brother Ross took over the driving of the FF cars, moving on to Formula Pacific when the brothers built their FP Cudas
I can't see where any Australian club-racing careers could fit into that

Jimmy Stone was a key member of the McLaren CanAm operation

[Ray Bell]

You've got a right to be surprised, David...

Wrong people. Sorry.

How did you get on with Don Eade, then?

[CarlRabbidge]

South Canterbury drivers who tasted sucess came from two distinct groups agriculture and the trades, most were / still are Motor Mechanics or from a closely aligned trades group.

[hiteknz]

You've got a right to be surprised, David...

Wrong people. Sorry.

How did you get on with Don Eade, then?

Both the Stone boys left school and went straight into the motor trade as apprentice mechanics,there is also a third brother Kevin who also competed at club level here ,completed the same mechanic apprenticeship and worked at McLaren ,like myself the only farming connection was we all grew up together in a rural area ,mind you I did work for a agricultural contractor driving tractors for a while

[David McKinney]

Carl - I did remember Jimmy Stone's Can-Am connection after I wrote my earlier bit (and after I'd been reminded by another former McLaren employee ). The point really was however, that I didn't see how he could have had an Australian club-racing career.
Though of course he and Ross do run one of Australia's top V8 sedan teams

Ray - who's Don Eade?

Bob - yes, I remember Kevin too, now you mention it
Bill Stone of course came from the same general area, but was not as far as I know related

[hiteknz]

Carl - I did remember Jimmy Stone's Can-Am connection after I wrote my earlier bit (and after I'd been reminded by another former McLaren employee ). The point really was however, that I didn't see how he could have had an Australian club-racing career.
Though of course he and Ross do run one of Australia's top V8 sedan teams

Ray - who's Don Eade?

Bob - yes, I remember Kevin too, now you mention it
Bill Stone of course came from the same general area, but was not as far as I know related

Bill ,I think the only common connection between us all was the area and Motorsport ,now Bill would have been a hard one to put a job description to ,in his early days he had many different vocations probably like most of us to fund his motor racing habit,from memory Jim and Bill went over to the UK together at the same time ,upon his return Jimmy and him were partners in a auto dismantling business for a while ,actually saw Bill today at Hampton Downs his health has not been the best of late

[wenoopy]

And then there was Ray Stone who came from approximately the same area, and ministered to the cars of the "South Auckland Mafia" and others. Don't know that he ever raced.

[ronmac]

AND how could we forget....Paul Kirk.. A grade mechanic at Archibalds Jaguar..Builder of the OSCA Oldsmobile V8
powered Viva..and if you want a 350 chev V8 fitted to your Jaguar..he is your man..
Also..Arthur Kennard.. mechanic .. possibly the first to fit a corvette engine into a Healey sports .
And..Adrienne Doyle (nee Kennard ) rally driver and club saloon racer.
And ..Neil Doyle..farmer..who worked at Surtees,drove a Surtees,and built the famous Ford 105E Anglia Corvette .
And..Frank Ryan.. Te Anau..farmer..raced in OSCA races.and N.Z. Saloon Championship.

[David Manton]

AND how could we forget....Paul Kirk.. A grade mechanic at Archibalds Jaguar..Builder of the OSCA Oldsmobile V8
powered Viva..and if you want a 350 chev V8 fitted to your Jaguar..he is your man..
Also..Arthur Kennard.. mechanic .. possibly the first to fit a corvette engine into a Healey sports .
And..Adrienne Doyle (nee Kennard ) rally driver and club saloon racer.
And ..Neil Doyle..farmer..who worked at Surtees,drove a Surtees,and built the famous Ford 105E Anglia Corvette .
And..Frank Ryan.. Te Anau..farmer..raced in OSCA races.and N.Z. Saloon Championship.

More non-motor trade entries are Ian Bisman, architect and the late Fred Zambucka, ex-professional wrestler, scrap metal merchant, crane hire operator and other assorted businesses. His company apparently supplied the cranes used during construction of the Auckland Harbour Bridge.

[CarlRabbidge]

Have run into the Rock (aka Ray Stone) a few times of recent, he is spending quite a bit of time in the high country of the South Island researching for and writing books on the high country stations and the people associated with them back through history. Last time we meet he was still very fit and active, does not really look to have aged at all.

[wenoopy]

Have run into the Rock (aka Ray Stone) a few times of recent, he is spending quite a bit of time in the high country of the South Island researching for and writing books on the high country stations and the people associated with them back through history. Last time we meet he was still very fit and active, does not really look to have aged at all.

I wonder if Ray's research has caught up with the late Duncan Rutherford's ancestors.
There is an interesting 72-page article on Duncan in "Heaps More Grady's People" by Don Grady, one of his series of books about "unforgettable characters" from the top of the South Island. Not really a motor racing author, but interesting description of Duncan's car-collecting and related activities. Not sure if Duncan really did anything for a living, but the family owned Amuri Motors and ran Leslie Hills sheep station, and Duncan flew planes, bought, fiddled with, and raced cars. In later years he moved to Richmond and took most of his cars with him. Over 200 cars when he died.

[donharper]

No more , Ron ?