14 replies to this topic

[Bauble]

For some time now I have been incensed by people referring to people driving at ten tenths or even eleven tenths (if pedants will allow me to be incensed, and yes, I have been incensed over Easter. ie as Thurifer).

Therefore I wonder if there is anyone out there in the land of Tee-en-eff, who can supply a copy of the original (motor sport) version of tenths as used to measure the speed of progress in a motor car. I think it was compiled by Rodney Walkerley and describes increasing speed in rather colourful terms.

I can only remember certain parts, and I know it involves little old ladies cycling to church on a Sunday morning, World Champion making up time after a pit stop ((9/10's), and 10/10th's is;

'The entire CID chasing dangerous motor bandits, all driving Ferraris, invariably ends in an accident'

I recall reading it in the Motor Sport Magazine sometime in the 1950's probably about 1956, and it might have been quoted by Jenks for some reason.

David McKinney has pointed me topwards Stirling Moss's own version, but I am after the Walkerley(?) version.

Can anyone help?

bauble

[Roger Clark]

For some time now I have been incensed by people referring to people driving at ten tenths or even eleven tenths (if pedants will allow me to be incensed, and yes, I have been incensed over Easter. ie as Thurifer).

Therefore I wonder if there is anyone out there in the land of Tee-en-eff, who can supply a copy of the original (motor sport) version of tenths as used to measure the speed of progress in a motor car. I think it was compiled by Rodney Walkerley and describes increasing speed in rather colourful terms.

I can only remember certain parts, and I know it involves little old ladies cycling to church on a Sunday morning, World Champion making up time after a pit stop ((9/10's), and 10/10th's is;

I recall reading it in the Motor Sport Magazine sometime in the 1950's probably about 1956, and it might have been quoted by Jenks for some reason.

David McKinney has pointed me topwards Stirling Moss's own version, but I am after the Walkerley(?) version.

Can anyone help?

bauble

Jenkinson's The Racing Driver has a chapter on the subject, including its origins, but no mention of Walkerley.

[Doug Nye]

That would not disqualify Rodney as the system's originator. Jenks was rather naughty during that period when he wrote his great book and did not always give credit where it was really due...

DCN

[Bauble]

Jenkinson's The Racing Driver has a chapter on the subject, including its origins, but no mention of Walkerley.

Roger,
That is the reference to the S Moss version, that David spoke of. I have the book and will take a look,but it is not the same,
Many thanks.

Bob

[Bloggsworth]

It probably originated more than 2,000 years ago with Rome and its legions, derived from Decimate, to reduce by tenths - I doubt they worked in percentages, so would probably have aggregated in tenths if they were used to reducing in tenths; so 10/10ths would have been the whole of the moon...

[Sharman]

It was Holly Birkett who first produced under the title " The Birkett Analysis of Dicing"

[scheivlak]

It probably originated more than 2,000 years ago with Rome and its legions, derived from Decimate, to reduce by tenths - I doubt they worked in percentages, so would probably have aggregated in tenths if they were used to reducing in tenths; so 10/10ths would have been the whole of the moon...

And don't forget the Bible, Bauble: http://www.bible.com...sult.php?id=161

[Bauble]

It was Holly Birkett who first produced under the title " The Birkett Analysis of Dicing"

Not Walkerley, then. So I am looking for the Birkett 'tenths'. Hopefully this may make it easier to find a copy. Any 750 MC members on site?

Thanks Sharman. Good Man.

bauble.

Now let us turn our attention to scheivlak's contribution.

Somehow I can not see quite how we can acquaint driving ability to one's contributions to the plate on Sunday!!!

Is our fellow member suggesting the more you give the faster God will let you drive? Well Senna was notably fast, and notably religious, often stating that he felt'His' guidance when on a hot lap.
Food for thought, however, I would not wish to wander too far off topic, before I have the information I seek. After that you can go where you like.

Come on chaps, someone out there knows where to find the answer to my quest.

[Roger Clark]

The Racing Driver gives credit to Holland Bikett for the original idea. Apparently, he and Godfrey Imhof discussed it during a Monte Carlo Rally. There is no mention of a published article.

If it's any help tracking down the origins further, Jenkinson mentioned tenths in his famous 1955 Mille Miglia article. I don't, however, know of any extended description by him until The Racing Driver.

[Tim Murray]

Here's the relevant section from The Racing Driver:

The idea of applying [tenths] to driving ability and conditions arose between those two great rally enthusiasts, Godfrey Imhoff and Holland Birkett, during a Monte Carlo Rally. They had discussed the idea beforehand, and over some easy sections of the course the one who was going to snatch a few minutes’ sleep would tell the other to take over and not go over six-tenths. This, of course, was an all-in evaluation allowing for the particular car they were in, the road surface and the terrain; the variable factor of driving ability in their case was about equal. On another rally Imhof was in a Sunbeam Talbot and Birkett was following in an Allard and over some mountainous going they had a little private race. Afterwards when questioned about how hard he had been trying Imhof replied,’Oh, about eight-tenths.’ It is with full acknowledgement to these two motoring enthusiasts that I now make use of their idea, in order to discuss more fully the differences between you and me and the top drivers in Grand Prix racing.

[Terry Walker]

I can't remember the exact wording now, but in a motor sport magazine I once read a summary of why Finns were so good in rallying. It went roughly like this:

"Most rally drivers start out at 7 tenths and work their way up to 9 and a half tenths. The Finns start out at eleven tenths, crash and burn all over the place, and settle at 10 tenths."

Niftiest way of summarising the concept I ever read.

It was well established then - Rauno Altonen's time? - and obviously went back a hell of a lot further.

[Bauble]

I clearly remember reading the complete list in the Motor Sport it went something like;

1/10 Little old lady cycling to church on Sunday Morning.
2/10 Vicar in Austin 7 late for the service.
3/10th ?????

7/10th slowest speed used by one of us.
8/10 Top class grand prix driver leading race
9/10 World Champion making up time after a pit stop
10/10 Entire CID chasing dangerous motor bandits all driving Ferraris. Invariably ends in a crash.

It was obviously a light hearted list and most amusing, I doubt if any of the descriptions above are exact, so don't quote me.

I think it would be a shame if this was lost for all time, someone must recall it, or some dedicated soul trawl through 1950's Motor Sports.

[Alfie]

For some time now I have been incensed by people referring to people
driving at ten tenths or even eleven tenths (if pedants will allow me to
be incensed, and yes, I have been incensed over Easter. ie as
Thurifer).

As a work study engineer back when Noah was a boy, eleven tenths was perfectly acceptable - well 100%+ actually - as an expression that conveyed effort that could be achieved for a short period of time but could not be sustained.

We accepted a routine 85% as normal working, with estimated effort balancing the times we recorded on the shop floor during timed sessions.

So don't be too incensed, there is a certain logic to it, even if somewhat esoteric.

[Bloggsworth]

I clearly remember reading the complete list in the Motor Sport it went something like;

3/10th ?????

Man wearing a hat in a Volvo...

[Bauble]

Man wearing a hat in a Volvo...

Hey! Bloggy. Have you thought about an extended holiday in Siberia any time soon?