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Felipe Massa


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#901 gm914

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 16:04

When are we hearing about his contract extension..? I thought that was supposed to happen today already.

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#902 Obster

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 16:25

Great to see Massa getting results again. It was good to hear the pitwall tell him to slow down and not pass Alonso.

#903 Jackmancer

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 16:28

As much as I like Massa, I think signing him for 2013 will be a mistake and the beginning of the season will be as bad as this.

#904 molive

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 17:00

As much as I like Massa, I think signing him for 2013 will be a mistake and the beginning of the season will be as bad as this.


And you think that based on...?

#905 molive

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 17:06

Massa is a confidence driver. He is currently very confident.


Not on qualies. Hes still gotta improve on that area.

A win in the Brazilian GP would do wonders to prove the old Massa is really back.







#906 Jackmancer

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 17:13

And you think that based on...?


Because Massa has been terrible since his accident in 2009. 2010 was actually a good year by todays standards, he got 57% of Alonso's points. Since then he scored less than half his points. 46% in 2011, and a freaking 38% this year.

#907 flavio81

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 17:52

It seems that the Massa of old is now back!! Excellent, we need more great drivers on the grid.

#908 discover23

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 18:14

Not on qualies. Hes still gotta improve on that area.

A win in the Brazilian GP would do wonders to prove the old Massa is really back.

He is good there no doubt , hopefully he is not in the same position he was at Brazil 2007.

#909 Watkins74

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 18:15

It seems that the Massa of old is now back!! Excellent, we need more great drivers on the grid.

He really has been driving nicely lately. I am happy for him.

#910 Lone

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 18:24

Because Massa has been terrible since his accident in 2009. 2010 was actually a good year by todays standards, he got 57% of Alonso's points. Since then he scored less than half his points. 46% in 2011, and a freaking 38% this year.

Let's put it this way, the car development hasn't exactly gone his way the last couple of years.


#911 molive

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 19:19

Let's put it this way, the car development hasn't exactly gone his way the last couple of years.


That.

But now it looks like he finally came to grips (no pun intended) with the Pirellis.


#912 ryan86

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 20:59

I know it's a small number of races compared to probably almost two years of terribleness, but at the current moment Jackmancer, there's a possibility over the final 10 races of the season Felipe's % of Alonso's points might end up in 3 figures.

#913 ed24f1

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 21:03

When are we hearing about his contract extension..? I thought that was supposed to happen today already.


I think I remember reading it will be Tuesday, not today.

#914 Mauseri

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 21:25

Because Massa has been terrible since his accident in 2009. 2010 was actually a good year by todays standards, he got 57% of Alonso's points. Since then he scored less than half his points. 46% in 2011, and a freaking 38% this year.

I think that has more to do with tightness of the grid. Massa seems emotional driver and when things get difficult he is affected and the results are more pathetic than they should be. I think Button is the opposite and can perform even when things are not rolling his way.


#915 FenderJaguar

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 21:28

I was happy to see Massa's good performance in Korea, but that he keeps his seat at Ferrari isn't right after 3 pretty poor seasons. Probably Ferrari won't win the WCC in 2013 either. They seem to be happy with that.

#916 Seanspeed

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 21:33

I was happy to see Massa's good performance in Korea, but that he keeps his seat at Ferrari isn't right after 3 pretty poor seasons. Probably Ferrari won't win the WCC in 2013 either. They seem to be happy with that.

Ferrari wont win the WCC until they build a better car.

#917 FenderJaguar

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 21:47

Ferrari wont win the WCC until they build a better car.


If they had a driver who scored more points they would have a better chance. Alonso has today 209 points. Vettel has 215. Pretty even. The big difference is between Webber who has 152 and Massa who only has 81. There are 8 drivers who have collected more points than Massa. I don't care really- great news for Massa, but I think it is strange and a sign that Ferrari lacks some ambition. It would be natural for them to want to be at the absolute top level of F1.

Edited by FenderJaguar, 15 October 2012 - 21:49.


#918 ed24f1

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 21:47

I think that has more to do with tightness of the grid. Massa seems emotional driver and when things get difficult he is affected and the results are more pathetic than they should be. I think Button is the opposite and can perform even when things are not rolling his way.


Button is one of the most susceptible drivers to struggling with a sub-100% car in the field! Did you see him in the middle of this season for one example?

#919 LukeM

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 00:33

great to see Massa back, and kudos to him for sticking it out mentally after such a tough 2 years. Looking at his Q performances and some great races I feel he could really give Alonso a run next year.

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#920 Seanspeed

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:45

If they had a driver who scored more points they would have a better chance. Alonso has today 209 points. Vettel has 215. Pretty even. The big difference is between Webber who has 152 and Massa who only has 81. There are 8 drivers who have collected more points than Massa. I don't care really- great news for Massa, but I think it is strange and a sign that Ferrari lacks some ambition. It would be natural for them to want to be at the absolute top level of F1.

A better chance, sure. But the point is that Massa has proven to be a WCC-helping driver in a decent car. Certainly his performances since the car has improved this year have shown that he does have what it takes when the machinery isn't overly difficult to work with.

Alonso's points may be similar to Vettel's, but that does not mean that the cars have been equal throughout the year. Alonso, by most accounts, has had one of his best seasons ever and very people would have predicted for him to be where he is earlier in the season.

To say that Ferrari lacks ambition is laughable nonsense. There's not a team out there who wants to win more. And there's not a team out there who places more pride in their WCC abilities. But they realize where their problems lie, and its not the drivers right now. They know that Massa can deliver when they deliver the car. Thats their priority.

Edited by Seanspeed, 16 October 2012 - 01:46.


#921 FenderJaguar

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:43

To say that Ferrari lacks ambition is laughable nonsense. There's not a team out there who wants to win more. And there's not a team out there who places more pride in their WCC abilities.


We'll have to disagree. Ferrari seem very content with where they are. I think Ferrari has a problem with Luca running things and not quite in touch with reality and Domenicali who doesn't get free hands. They are trying to win with wishful thinking where a guy like Horner would approach it differently. Good luck to Massa. If he can turn his fortunes around - good for him.


#922 Sanman59

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:16

A better chance, sure. But the point is that Massa has proven to be a WCC-helping driver in a decent car. Certainly his performances since the car has improved this year have shown that he does have what it takes when the machinery isn't overly difficult to work with.

Alonso's points may be similar to Vettel's, but that does not mean that the cars have been equal throughout the year. Alonso, by most accounts, has had one of his best seasons ever and very people would have predicted for him to be where he is earlier in the season.

To say that Ferrari lacks ambition is laughable nonsense. There's not a team out there who wants to win more. And there's not a team out there who places more pride in their WCC abilities. But they realize where their problems lie, and its not the drivers right now. They know that Massa can deliver when they deliver the car. Thats their priority.



Absolutely right. The car is not good enough and the development has not gone Massa's way in the last couple of years. He has finally got to grips with his injury; the car and the tyres and Massa has now scored 56 points in the last five races - 11 more than Alonso.

:cool:

#923 Disgrace

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 14:57

Absolutely right. The car is not good enough and the development has not gone Massa's way in the last couple of years. He has finally got to grips with his injury; the car and the tyres and Massa has now scored 56 points in the last five races - 11 more than Alonso.

:cool:


How does a driver "get to grips" with his injury in the driving sense?

#924 Disgrace

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 14:59

Because Massa has been terrible since his accident in 2009. 2010 was actually a good year by todays standards, he got 57% of Alonso's points. Since then he scored less than half his points. 46% in 2011, and a freaking 38% this year.


So he hasn't been terrible since his accident in 2009. He has been terrible since the end of 2010, since the introduction of Pirelli tyres.

Edited by Disgrace, 16 October 2012 - 14:59.


#925 Kyo

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 16:12

So he hasn't been terrible since his accident in 2009. He has been terrible since the end of 2010, since the introduction of Pirelli tyres.

I wouldn't say this, 57% of Alonso's points is not good and i remember Alonso having lots of incidents at the beginning of 2010 season which could explain the lower difference in points that season.

#926 Sanman59

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 16:32

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/92066.html


Nice one Filipe.


:up: :up: :up: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Edited by Sanman59, 16 October 2012 - 16:32.


#927 ed24f1

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 21:10

I wouldn't say this, 57% of Alonso's points is not good and i remember Alonso having lots of incidents at the beginning of 2010 season which could explain the lower difference in points that season.


Well Massa had much more bad luck in 2010 than Alonso. I think 2010 and 2012 were better than 2011 for Massa.

#928 Seanspeed

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 21:12

We'll have to disagree. Ferrari seem very content with where they are. I think Ferrari has a problem with Luca running things and not quite in touch with reality and Domenicali who doesn't get free hands. They are trying to win with wishful thinking where a guy like Horner would approach it differently. Good luck to Massa. If he can turn his fortunes around - good for him.

What is your evidence of any of this? Just a gut feeling? You have no idea whats going at Ferrari and to think they're happy with what they're doing right now is definitely laughable. Disagree all you want.

Edited by Seanspeed, 16 October 2012 - 21:12.


#929 Disgrace

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 21:18

Well Massa had much more bad luck in 2010 than Alonso. I think 2010 and 2012 were better than 2011 for Massa.


Fully agreed. This year he has cut out his horrible habit of chopping drivers when he has lost corners in a racing situation, losing endless amounts of points, which is another reason the contract extension for a year is sensible.

#930 Mauseri

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 10:39

Well Massa had much more bad luck in 2010 than Alonso. I think 2010 and 2012 were better than 2011 for Massa.

I think lot of Massas bad luck resultswise has been down to him having accidents with other drivers and not being fast enough to put him near front. It is himself responsible for that and not the unlucky situations themselves.

#931 f1rookie

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 17:20


Felipe proved himself to earn 2013 race seat

http://www.formula1o...-2013-race.html

Congrats Felipe...

#932 runggald

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 10:20

Very fortunate indeed... one podium in the last 3 seasons... whereas in the same amount of time Alonso has scored 29...wow...

Now was the right time to give some young kid a chance... any young kid, who in the next 3 years would probably get on the podium at least once...

#933 olliek88

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 11:21

Very fortunate indeed... one podium in the last 3 seasons... whereas in the same amount of time Alonso has scored 29...wow...

Now was the right time to give some young kid a chance... any young kid, who in the next 3 years would probably get on the podium at least once...


Felipe has had 6 podiums in 3 seasons.

#934 cruck12

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 11:49

Felipe has had 6 podiums in 3 seasons.



And he would have had 2 more this season, if not for Alonso needing him to move over/ keep at bay for the WDC

Along with the fact that in the second half of the season, he has scored 2nd most number of points, only behind Vettel.

Edited by cruck12, 21 October 2012 - 11:49.


#935 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 16:31

Imagine if Massa were to win the 2013 WDC what would Ferrari do? Still boot him or give him another extension? Very wishful thinking.

#936 dgduris

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:01

Wow! I am surprised at the piling on of Felipe.

Perhaps Ferrari are getting soft in DiMontezemolo's old age.

Or, perhaps you all just need someone to kick.

Sad.

I hope he comes in second next year. It's probably in his job description...and has been since Schumacher.

#937 Dunc

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 12:44

If Felipe can carry his recent form through the entirity of next season I think he's be an ideal fit at Williams. They need an experienced driver and, when he was at his best, he could really deliver good, consistent results. He'd need sponsors though, which may be the stumbling block...



#938 FenderJaguar

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 13:38

What is your evidence of any of this? Just a gut feeling? You have no idea whats going at Ferrari and to think they're happy with what they're doing right now is definitely laughable. Disagree all you want.


it's very simple. Ferrari has historically had quite high demands on their drivers and Massa has been with them since 2006. His seasons from 2010 and onwards hasn't been that good so from an objective viewpoint it it is more strange that they keep him than not.

Such a decision from any team or company tells a story. It's not Massa's excellent driving that is keeping him in the team. There are other reasons. Maybe he and Nic Todt has a picture of Luca in drag. Who knows.

Edited by FenderJaguar, 22 October 2012 - 16:00.


#939 Massa

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 13:47

It's simple. They already know which driver they want for 2014, and this driver is not free for next year. So they have just to continue with Massa one more year. Why choose Hulkenberg if they can have Vettel - for example - in 2014?

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#940 Skinnyguy

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 13:00

Massa has the Webber syndrome, he renewed contract and then back to being nowhere. Today race was awful, under pressure from way slower car and 40 seconds away from your teammate is not acceptable.

#941 Massa

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 13:08

He had to save fuel during half of the race. So you have to wait an another race before jumping into bad conclusion :)

#942 Skinnyguy

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 13:09

He had to save fuel during half of the race. So you have to wait an another race before jumping into bad conclusion :)


So?? That means he should have been faster initially, unless fuel vanished.

#943 Konsta

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 13:10

Massa has the Webber syndrome, he renewed contract and then back to being nowhere. Today race was awful, under pressure from way slower car and 40 seconds away from your teammate is not acceptable.

:up:
Horrible weekend for him altogether - if FA is honestly 40 secs faster than him...

#944 dav115

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 13:11

Massa has the Webber syndrome, he renewed contract and then back to being nowhere. Today race was awful, under pressure from way slower car and 40 seconds away from your teammate is not acceptable.

Way slower car? That Lotus was on RB pace in clear air...


#945 Massa

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 13:13

So?? That means he should have been faster initially, unless fuel vanished.



That means he had to save fuel and he cannot compete. And you have to take an account that Alonso had the new diffuser and Massa no.

I think next weekend you will be silent like after Suzuka or Korea.

#946 joshb

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 13:14

Massa has the Webber syndrome, he renewed contract and then back to being nowhere. Today race was awful, under pressure from way slower car and 40 seconds away from your teammate is not acceptable.

Alonso got through the Mclarens early on- Massa didn't. Alonso had real good pace too but he lost time himself stuck early on. Thereafter once the mclarens got over their early poor pace, he wasn't going to get any higher and only top speed (or Kimi's lack of kept him P6.

#947 Skinnyguy

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 13:19

That means he had to save fuel and he cannot compete. And you have to take an account that Alonso had the new diffuser and Massa no.

I think next weekend you will be silent like after Suzuka or Korea.


I´ll explain you how it goes: there´s a reasonable window of fuel for every GP. In that, if you go towards the light side, you´re fast early on, but you can get into trouble. In the heavy side, you´re slower, but it´s safer.

Felipe went agressive, and should have shown good pace early on. And he was nowhere all race.

If next weekend he´s back on pace, good for him, but that´s irrelevant now, because he was hopeless today, and that´s what we´re talking about. No pace at all.

#948 encircled

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 13:20

That means he had to save fuel and he cannot compete. And you have to take an account that Alonso had the new diffuser and Massa no.

I think next weekend you will be silent like after Suzuka or Korea.

Pretty impressive of Massa to almost match Alonso in Q3 then.

#949 Massa

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 13:23

I´ll explain you how it goes: there´s a reasonable window of fuel for every GP. In that, if you go towards the light side, you´re fast early on, but you can get into trouble. In the heavy side, you´re slower, but it´s safer.

Felipe went agressive, and should have shown good pace early on. And he was nowhere all race.

If next weekend he´s back on pace, good for him, but that´s irrelevant now, because he was hopeless today, and that´s what we´re talking about. No pace at all.



Massa was stuck behind Button during the first stint. Did you watch the race ? It was not easy to overtake, Mclaren and Ferrari were pretty equal during the race. Then like i said, it's seems Alonso had the new diffuser and Massa not.

#950 Skinnyguy

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 13:28

Massa was stuck behind Button during the first stint. Did you watch the race ?


Yes, I watched that part where Alonso cruised past Button, while Massa couldn´t, and then started dropping back.

It was not easy to overtake


It was easy enough with a fast car on a straight line. Ferrari was. He simply lacked pace.

Mclaren and Ferrari were pretty equal during the race.


Alonso beat McLaren comfortably. Massa didn´t have a sniff of it.

Then like i said, it's seems Alonso had the new diffuser and Massa not.


Don´t know about that. If it´s worth .8, my apologies to Felipe. But I strongly doubt that.