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Felipe Massa


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#101 Oho

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 14:12

In case what you think was true, Hamilton in particular earned that "disrespect" since Monaco so thumbs up for Alonso there.


For what, voicing his displeasure at being forbidden from challenging his team mate. Alonso should have been a bigger man than that and just let it go on stride. I mean coming from back to back titles he was still so insecure that Hamilton whining publicly about hold station order got under his skin. You know what, guys like Schumacher or Räikkönen would hardly have batted an eye.

Edited by Oho, 07 September 2011 - 14:13.


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#102 Atomicus

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 14:15

For what, voicing his displeasure at being forbidden from challenging his team mate. Alonso should have been a bigger man than that and just let it go on stride. I mean coming form back to back titles he was still so insecure that Hamilton whining publicly about hold station order got under his skin. You know what, guys like Schumacher or Räikkönen would hardly have batted an eye.


You know the reason wasn't that, and I thought Hamilton did way more than just voicing a displeasure. I'll just leave it like that because as I said this is about Massa. Seems like people can't talk about Alonso without bringing out Hamilton :S

#103 GerhardBerger

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 14:21

there's a thread dedicated to alonso vs hamilton.

This is the Massa thread.

#104 Ferrari2183

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 14:22

You know the reason wasn't that, and I thought Hamilton did way more than just voicing a displeasure. I'll just leave it like that because as I said this is about Massa. Seems like people can't talk about Alonso without bringing out Hamilton :S

:up: :up: :up:

Can we please get back to discussing Massa?

#105 Oho

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 14:26

You know the reason wasn't that, and I thought Hamilton did way more than just voicing a displeasure. I'll just leave it like that because as I said this is about Massa. Seems like people can't talk about Alonso without bringing out Hamilton :S



No I don't know, what Hamilton did he said something to the effect that the number on his car and in his cap reflected his status in the team, that's about it. And Hamilton was brought into this as a well proof positive that Alonso has not respected all his team mates, which has not been refuted.

Edited by Oho, 07 September 2011 - 14:27.


#106 Ferrari2183

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 14:33

No I don't know, what Hamilton did he said something to the effect that the number on his car and in his cap reflected his status in the team, that's about it. And Hamilton was brought into this as a well proof positive that Alonso has not respected all his team mates, which has not been refuted.

Good grief. He reported his team for employing illegal team orders. Also, you had Ron Dennis asking Alonso to be nice to Hamilton to which Alonso replied that he was coasting. Many see Monaco as where the whole McLaren/Dennis/Hamilton/Alonso saga went tits up... And no, Alonso played no part in it.

Now can we get back to Massa please?

#107 ed24f1

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 14:43

Happy birthday Felipe. It would be a superb birthday present and more if he took the chequer at Monza :wave: on Sunday.


You are over 4 months late, his birthday was April 25th!

Edited by ed24f1, 07 September 2011 - 14:43.


#108 kosmos

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 16:02

Really, so it is utterly inconceivable that Germany 2010 is symptomatic of Ferrari marching orders these days? Or maybe being relegated to firm number 2 status does not qualify as being treated as shit.


Done for a reason, the same way they didn't asked Massa to move on at the beginning of the sesson (2010).

#109 Bruce

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 16:11

Felipe is in the unfortunate position (much like Mark Webber) of being in a competitive team with a superior driver. This is a difficult spot to be in because it makes it unlikely that any other top team would want to "poach" him and thus, if he leaves the team he would likely go to a genuinely uncompetitive team. The only real option for Felipe is to stay with ferrari for as long as they want him...

I'm not slagging Massa - I just don't think he's the "full package" - at least - not as much as Alonso is.

#110 MonzaF1

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 16:43

:cat:
look here

and then he is tired on sunday...... :rotfl:


Never affected Master James - he would use it as a build up to the race at the back of the pits sometimes and would win.

Different times - now there is no crumpet [hat tip to Sir Stirling] in the pit or the paddock, Kimi is gone and they are all so damn respectable.

#111 Massa

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 09:42

:up:
It's not Fernando's fault that he is slower than him!
Fernando everytime respect his teammates....what not ever do the teammates with him! It's logic that less driver are unhappy on his side, because it's hard to win him.....


Alonso never respect Fisichella. Never. i can recal Canada and China 2006.

#112 britishtrident

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 10:34

Felipe is in the unfortunate position (much like Mark Webber) of being in a competitive team with a superior driver. This is a difficult spot to be in because it makes it unlikely that any other top team would want to "poach" him and thus, if he leaves the team he would likely go to a genuinely uncompetitive team. The only real option for Felipe is to stay with ferrari for as long as they want him...

I'm not slagging Massa - I just don't think he's the "full package" - at least - not as much as Alonso is.


Much as I like Fellipe and don't like Alonso's treatment of his team mates Alonso is a class act, if you marked all the top drivers on race pace, qualifying pace, aggression, tactics, bad weather ability and all the other thing a top F1 driver requires he probably wouldn't be a the top on any particular ability but add them all up and 2011 he comes out top by a large margin . In 2010 it would have been first equal with Robert K.

#113 jonnoj

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 02:57

Was Massa told to let Alonzo get past on Sunday? If so, how much longer can he remain at Ferrari?



#114 TheBunk

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 07:42

Was Massa told to let Alonzo get past on Sunday? If so, how much longer can he remain at Ferrari?



Looked like it yes. Same as at Spa imo. How much longer does he tolerate such treatment is the next question.

#115 holiday

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 07:50

Can we please get back to discussing Massa?


Yep. He is down right disappointing and makes his Ferrari seat look undeserved as hell. :(


#116 Massa

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 08:10

Looked like it yes. Same as at Spa imo. How much longer does he tolerate such treatment is the next question.


Are you serious ?

Massa is WEAK that's all. He is no longer the same driver than before Hungary 2009. This accident kill his career. Even Glock or Kovalainen could do better than him. Massa is a waste of time, waste of energy, and waste of money, Ferrari need to fire him. He is the only reason why Ferrari in WCC is so behind Mclaren, with a real driver instead of Massa, they could be very near Mclaren.

This year is even worse than last year, the only good race he had was China. At China it was the good old Massa. But it was a mirage sadly :(

#117 F1ultimate

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 08:21

Filippe Massa has fallen from grace. I don't know what the future holds for him, but before he leaves Ferrari he must challenge Alonso to at least 1 GP victory.

#118 madrocker

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 12:20

I think he is actually closer to Alonso, on raw pace, this year than last year but he really needs to go drive somewhere else to get his confidence back. It is no good getting the short end of the stick strategy-wise race after race, not that his pace is equal to Alonso, it's worse, but it would have helped Massa a lot if Ferrari could pit him sooner sometimes.

#119 cardin

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 15:00

Was Massa told to let Alonzo get past on Sunday? If so, how much longer can he remain at Ferrari?

Of course he was. Alonso got past and Massa stayed right behind him hence Alonso was not faster. On the second stint Massa was a little quicker. And all that for what ?

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#120 cardin

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 15:02

Are you serious ?

Massa is WEAK that's all. He is no longer the same driver than before Hungary 2009. This accident kill his career. Even Glock or Kovalainen could do better than him. Massa is a waste of time, waste of energy, and waste of money, Ferrari need to fire him. He is the only reason why Ferrari in WCC is so behind Mclaren, with a real driver instead of Massa, they could be very near Mclaren.

This year is even worse than last year, the only good race he had was China. At China it was the good old Massa. But it was a mirage sadly :(

If only you could stop ranting and analyze what happened during the race...

#121 Massa

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 15:04

If only you could stop ranting and analyze what happened during the race...


yes... :rolleyes:

Start to open your eyes.. Since Melbourne 2010 Massa is weak, even Barry White could see that.

#122 cardin

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 15:12

yes... :rolleyes:

Start to open your eyes.. Since Melbourne 2010 Massa is weak, even Barry White could see that.


ADD is a bitch. Here, for you again. Was Massa asked to let Alonso pass in Japan ? You answered with a completely unrelated rant, and now we have the second part of that rant above.

#123 Tardis40

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 15:18

Massa was sixth last year and he's sixth this year which, considering Ferrari is clearly the third fastest car, is exactly where he should be. Indeed, it's a testament to his ability that he hasn't fallen down the list considering how many times Hamilton has run into him.


#124 Massa

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 15:26

Massa is not expected to be more than 100 pts behind his team mate, is not expected to be only 27 pts in front of both Mercedes driver. His car is way faster than Mercedes car and he is unable to pass a Mercedes in race. Alonso is always alone VS both Mclaren and Red Bull.

#125 cardin

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 15:27

Massa was sixth last year and he's sixth this year which, considering Ferrari is clearly the third fastest car, is exactly where he should be. Indeed, it's a testament to his ability that he hasn't fallen down the list considering how many times Hamilton has run into him.

And also considering how many times he had to let Alonso past or work for him in qually like he did in Monza.

#126 Massa

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 15:36

Massa post-accident was the real Massa, one of the best driver of the grid, in 2009 he was a podium contender at many race ( Melbourne, Spain, Monaco, China, Germany ), so many time he put the shitty F60 very up in the race.

He was agressive, fast, determined, he was a real leader.

Now he always talk about Hamilton etc.. while he is weak in race. At start of the race he is fast, as fast as Alonso, but after first or second pit stop, he is always way behind the front runners, while Alonso push the car hard.

Massa is weak and it's hurt me because i'm sure he had the capacity and the speed to do way better.

Edited by Massa, 11 October 2011 - 15:36.


#127 trogggy

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 15:39

Massa post-accident was the real Massa,

pre-accident?

#128 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 15:39

Alonso is always alone VS both Mclaren and Red Bull.

are you sure? I remember Alonso needing Felipe to move over in Suzuka and then not pulling away from him significantly. (so even if Alonso was faster he was marginally faster).
Then Alonso (as always) got priority on strategy having Massa fight Lewis and Webber.

It's kind of hard to be in front (and have the right to best strategy) then move over for your team mate and also get the worse strategy

what is the excuse now? is alonso fighting for any title or he simply could not pass felipe on track?



#129 kosmos

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 16:13

Yeah, stoping one lap later than your teammate in the 2 first pitstop, and one lap earlier in the last pitstop is such a bad strategy. This little fact made Felipe drive slower for 36 laps (of 53) of the race and made him finish 7th, 28 seconds behind Alonso.



#130 Ragingjamaican

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 16:20

I would like to see Ferrari give equal treatment to Massa when Alonso in his team-mate, I very much doubt he would be as bad as he currently is, and in the first half of 2010 up to Hockenheim, if you give Massa the win in Hockenheim the points would have been Alonso: 116 and Massa: 92. That's less than a win behind with still several races to go, unfortunately we all know what happened afterwards.

I also think after his accident he has been a bit slower, but even in the first half of 2010 he wasn't at all bad.

#131 cardin

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 16:25

Yeah, stoping one lap later than your teammate in the 2 first pitstop, and one lap earlier in the last pitstop is such a bad strategy. This little fact made Felipe drive slower for 36 laps (of 53) of the race and made him finish 7th, 28 seconds behind Alonso.

He lost 2 seconds +(relative to Alonso) after the firt pitstop. As to the rest of the race, why boder with anything if you have to let your team mate pass when there's no reason at all to do it. Having said that, it's been hard for me to repect Massa, he signed up for this crap. I don't know what empty promisses Ferrari made him for next year but he's fool if he's believing them.

#132 fabr68

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 16:36

Massa is good but the F150th is no F2008. If Massa could go any faster he would, lets not kid ourselves.

#133 nbhb

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 16:41

Of course he was. Alonso got past and Massa stayed right behind him hence Alonso was not faster. On the second stint Massa was a little quicker. And all that for what ?


Hmmm... what?

Massa vs Alonso

Edited by nbhb, 11 October 2011 - 16:42.


#134 kosmos

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 17:13

He lost 2 seconds +(relative to Alonso) after the firt pitstop.


Meaning what?, Massa was already 2 seconds behind before Alonso did his first stop, and the only time Alonso gained compared to Massa because the first pitstop was +0.166. Fact is that Massa couldn't keep up with Alonso after Alonso overtook him.

Probably this should go in the VS thread rather than here, if you want to discuss about it we can go there.


#135 August

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 17:19

Hmmm... what?

Massa vs Alonso


On the last stint Fred was faster than previous stints compared to Phil. I don't know was it because of harder tires or because of Phil's damaged endplate.

#136 Massa

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 17:20

are you sure? I remember Alonso needing Felipe to move over in Suzuka and then not pulling away from him significantly. (so even if Alonso was faster he was marginally faster).
Then Alonso (as always) got priority on strategy having Massa fight Lewis and Webber.

It's kind of hard to be in front (and have the right to best strategy) then move over for your team mate and also get the worse strategy

what is the excuse now? is alonso fighting for any title or he simply could not pass felipe on track?



Suzuka... And then ? You talk only about suzuka but what about other races ?

Alonso cannot overtake Massa on track ? Lol, he did this so many times...

I don't know why some Massa's fanboy cannot said that Massa is not good enough for Ferrari.

The only race where Massa was very good was China, damn it was the real Massa, with a 3 stop strategy for sure the race was for him. In the first part of the race, only Vettel was faster than him.

I don't know why he is so weak, i just want to see him kick Alonso and Hamilton ass :(

Edited by Massa, 11 October 2011 - 17:46.


#137 August

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 17:31

The only race where Massa was very good was China, damn it was the real Massa, with a 3 stop strategy, for sure the race was for him. In the first part of the race, only Vettel was faster than him.


That's why I haven't completely lost fy faith in Philly. He still got speed. IMO Massa's always been at his best at lead, and if Ferrari had the fastest car, Massa could do better compared to Fred. Yet, I don't knowwhether Fred would still be faster, and I'm not convinced Ferrari would give equal treatment. For Massa it might be good to move to another team away from the shadow of Fred. Yet, there are not many appealing seats available now, maybe he might have a chance for a Merc or LRGP seat for '13.

#138 Lotusseven

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 17:42

Does Massa really have any options if he has to leave Ferrari ? Personally I don't think so. He is done, Kapisch, Finito, Goodbye !
"Domenicali welcomes Vettel to Ferrari's" is the headline on some F1 websites today...hrmmm ? ...because of that , Massa is even more
out of the picture rather sooner than later I think.

Edited by Lotusseven, 11 October 2011 - 17:42.


#139 scheivlak

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 17:44

The only race where Massa was very good was China, damn it was the real Massa, with a 3 stop strategy,

2 stops, to be exact.

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#140 Massa

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 17:45

I have lost all my faith. I wait 2 years but enough is enough, and it's hurt me to say that. I don't want to see Massa fast in other team, Ferrari is HIS team, he is a Ferrari driver since 2001, but he seems to have lost all determination to kick Alonso's ass. He reminds me Barrichello...

Ferrari are right to support the better driver. Massa know this, in 2007, after Monza, all the support was for Raikkonen. In 2008, after Barcelona, all the support was for Massa, because Massa was better than Raikkonen, the same for 2009 until Hungary.

At Ferrari since 2007, at the start of the season both drivers are number 1, but if a driver is slower, he will become the number two. Massa have to beat Alonso at start of the season, but he seems to acknowledge that he is the number 2. But if at start in his mind he is the number 2 he will stay the number two...

Edited by Massa, 11 October 2011 - 17:47.


#141 Massa

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 17:46

2 stops, to be exact.


Read all the sentences mate... Massa was on two stop strategy and with 3 stops the win was for him, that's what i said

#142 schubacca

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 17:53

I have lost all my faith. I wait 2 years but enough is enough, and it's hurt me to say that. I don't want to see Massa fast in other team, Ferrari is HIS team, he is a Ferrari driver since 2001, but he seems to have lost all determination to kick Alonso's ass. He reminds me Barrichello...

Ferrari are right to support the better driver. Massa know this, in 2007, after Monza, all the support was for Raikkonen. In 2008, after Barcelona, all the support was for Massa, because Massa was better than Raikkonen, the same for 2009 until Hungary.

At Ferrari since 2007, at the start of the season both drivers are number 1, but if a driver is slower, he will become the number two. Massa have to beat Alonso at start of the season, but he seems to acknowledge that he is the number 2. But if at start in his mind he is the number 2 he will stay the number two...



FM needs to assert his will..... Unfortunately, he can't....... and that is sad.

#143 scheivlak

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 18:02

Read all the sentences mate... Massa was on two stop strategy and with 3 stops the win was for him, that's what i said

That's how you changed your sentence :rotfl:

#144 Massa

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 18:05

That's how you changed your sentence :rotfl:



Quote correctely instead of talk to say nothing good :)

You're the only one who didn't understand the sentence. Pathetic. Show me where i said Massa was on 3 stop strategies instead of try to start an useless argument.


Edited by Massa, 11 October 2011 - 18:06.


#145 currupipi

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 18:07

Yeah, stoping one lap later than your teammate in the 2 first pitstop, and one lap earlier in the last pitstop is such a bad strategy. This little fact made Felipe drive slower for 36 laps (of 53) of the race and made him finish 7th, 28 seconds behind Alonso.


dont try to make sense, these "experts" know what is really going on :rotfl:

the problem felipe has is once he catches up to someone unless he passes him in a hurray he ruins his tires , he cant follow close without consequences for his tires and that of course with the soft tire , once he puts on the harder compound its over.


#146 SpaMaster

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 18:21

I have lost all my faith. I wait 2 years but enough is enough, and it's hurt me to say that. I don't want to see Massa fast in other team, Ferrari is HIS team, he is a Ferrari driver since 2001, but he seems to have lost all determination to kick Alonso's ass. He reminds me Barrichello...

Ferrari are right to support the better driver. Massa know this, in 2007, after Monza, all the support was for Raikkonen. In 2008, after Barcelona, all the support was for Massa, because Massa was better than Raikkonen, the same for 2009 until Hungary.

At Ferrari since 2007, at the start of the season both drivers are number 1, but if a driver is slower, he will become the number two. Massa have to beat Alonso at start of the season, but he seems to acknowledge that he is the number 2. But if at start in his mind he is the number 2 he will stay the number two...

Interesting you mention Massa was deemed to be the better driver after Barcelona in 2008! Raikkonen had pole, FL and win there, and was leading the championship handsomely. That's when the suspension development was initiated..

BTW, why did Massa yield to Alonso like that at Suzuka? WDC is over. For a few WCC points? Can't see Webber or Hamilton doing that.

Edited by SpaMaster, 11 October 2011 - 20:29.


#147 scheivlak

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 18:25

Quote correctely instead of talk to say nothing good :)

You're the only one who didn't understand the sentence. Pathetic. Show me where i said Massa was on 3 stop strategies instead of try to start an useless argument.

By this line of reasoning you're the only one that thinks I started an argument :wave:

In my innocence I only wanted to point out that it was a two stopper, not a three.

#148 SimMaker

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 18:46

yes... :rolleyes:

Start to open your eyes.. Since Melbourne 2010 Massa is weak, even Barry White could see that.



Barry White?

#149 Smile17

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 19:03

All acting here like it can't get any worse for Felipe Massa while reality isn't even close. He's a Ferrari driver, earns millions a year, is loved around the world, has had some fantastic moments in F1 and came close to winning the world title in 2008. How many times has he won his home GP? That were the special times, he will never forget those and I'm sure he will once retire from F1 having won again.

'Massa has fallen from grace'? If that happened, then that happened way before 2010.

He currently has the most complete driver in F1 as his teammate, who also happens to be a master at extracting the max from slower/weaker cars. Not only that, but his team mate is also one who knows how to play the games behind the scenes and make the team his. We all knew Massa was going to struggle against Alonso, it's nothing knew. But nevertheless Ferrari can't get around Massa. Small critisicm aside, the CAR IS BAD so the blame lies mainly at Ferrari. The Scuderia still wants him and that's says all you need to know. Felipe is not a bad driver> give him Vettel's RedBull and he will dominate. It's that simple, but the current situation is very misleading.

Massa is at a good age, being Alonso's team mate also has it's pro's and if the cars gets better, daddy Brazil will hit back. To be honest, yes Felipe loses determination when the car is not up to it.

Edited by Smile17, 11 October 2011 - 19:04.


#150 Konsta

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 05:42

Barry White?

Barry White or Stevie Wonder - easily mixed up apparently :)

Felipe has been quick but his racecraft has not improved unfortunately - he seems totally clueless when he´s not cruising fast in front.

Felipe will never become a force to be reckoned because he lacks the team leader skills - he just whines and whines and then some more. Not that the situation at SF would help that any - his frustration for having become Freddies chihuahua has made him immune to his own shortcomings and to concentrate on finding fault at others - pathetic.