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Should Kobyashi be hired by a top team?


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#1 minardifans

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 23:53

And which one? I wouldn't like him to become second fiddle to Alonso, but he clearly has talent.

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#2 Disgrace

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 23:58

He is top team potential, I think, but give it another season. But how awesome would it be if he was given a Ferrari to play with? Endless entertainment.

#3 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 00:05

Yes. :up: :up:

However di Resta has also impressed, unfortunately and is already associated with Mercedes.

Since the only "top" seat that may open is with Mercedes and perhaps Red Bull. di Resta is claiming the Mercedes and presumably Beumi, Jaime or Ricciardo will take the Red Bull at Marko's insistance. :|

Koba would be a great pairing with Vettel, probably. Although unfortunately there is always going to be some suspicion that Kobayashi and di Resta may be "only Trulli/Fisi/Webber etc material impressing in midfield cars material" until it's truly clear. But Koba seems like a tier one driver for sure.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 29 April 2011 - 02:03.


#4 ViMaMo

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 01:59

Kobayashi at Mclaren would be fantastic. Two aggressive drivers who can overtake very well.

#5 Starish

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 02:34

His results so far merit a top seat, his aim is points at all races, so far he has done that. He is composed and knows how to follow a programme, this year is crucial for him to step up and its not looking so good with all the seats being taken, but Even now Sauber isn't looking like a bad home for the next year or so. He is the talk of the town though, every forum and commentator knows what he stands for and his class, reminds me of Raikkonen a bit and he sure would give Alonso a hard time.

P.s please don't overrate Koba yet guys.

Edited by Starish, 29 April 2011 - 02:35.


#6 BennyJohnson

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 02:45

Eh, I still don't think he's proved enough to warrant a drive from the top teams yet.

He is driving well, don't get me wrong, and he is very quick, so it would be nice, but he is only in his 2nd full season.

Needs a bit more experience if i'm honest.



#7 Starish

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 03:00

Eh, I still don't think he's proved enough to warrant a drive from the top teams yet.

He is driving well, don't get me wrong, and he is very quick, so it would be nice, but he is only in his 2nd full season.

Needs a bit more experience if i'm honest.

They said that about Kimi, but I don't understand how the toro rosso crash kids are getting talk about replacing a class driver like Mark Webber, and Koba a much better river than both of them needs more experience.

#8 BennyJohnson

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 03:05

They said that about Kimi, but I don't understand how the toro rosso crash kids are getting talk about replacing a class driver like Mark Webber, and Koba a much better river than both of them needs more experience.


Nobody is saying anything about them replacing Mark Webber.

I havn't heard a single thing from anyone about that. I've heard about Riccardio replacing Webber, and the reason being is because he was brought up with the Red Bull Young Driver Program, and is young and talented. Which is the same sort of hype Vettel got.

To be honest, Big teams probably don't like Kobayashi, some of his overtakes are just too risky. They look good to us, and that's why he has such a following, but I don't think he's rated that highly by the teams.

Honestly (this is very blatant) I think a lot of people are blinded by watching him overtake and they say "Wow, this kid is great, he's definetly the best" and they don't seem to take into account his proper talent.

Remember Japan last year, everyone said that was good overtaking, but in reality, he dived for the inside against one of the toro rosso's and nearly DNF'ed, he overtakes, but the way he overtakes is not smooth, and uncalculated. (IMO).

A big team wouldn't take a risk on a driver like that, Unless he could prove he can overtake consistantly, without damaging or putting the car at risk.

#9 pingu666

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 03:11

it would be a surprise and a odd choice to go for a driver outside your devlopment drivers. thats what torro rosso is there for partly, to train new drivers for the main team

#10 pingu666

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 03:20

much as i like his overtakes, its his abililty/mindset of driving like a nascar driver which impress's me more, and last year he made the alternate stratagy work a couple of times

#11 Bunchies

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 03:32

Nobody is saying anything about them replacing Mark Webber.

I havn't heard a single thing from anyone about that. I've heard about Riccardio replacing Webber, and the reason being is because he was brought up with the Red Bull Young Driver Program, and is young and talented. Which is the same sort of hype Vettel got.

To be honest, Big teams probably don't like Kobayashi, some of his overtakes are just too risky. They look good to us, and that's why he has such a following, but I don't think he's rated that highly by the teams.

Honestly (this is very blatant) I think a lot of people are blinded by watching him overtake and they say "Wow, this kid is great, he's definetly the best" and they don't seem to take into account his proper talent.

Remember Japan last year, everyone said that was good overtaking, but in reality, he dived for the inside against one of the toro rosso's and nearly DNF'ed, he overtakes, but the way he overtakes is not smooth, and uncalculated. (IMO).

A big team wouldn't take a risk on a driver like that, Unless he could prove he can overtake consistantly, without damaging or putting the car at risk.


You don't watch his racing close enough. The first overtake , he lost the rear a little. But every other one was perfect. He is the model of consistency. If you watch his GP2 races, he does the same thing.


#12 rolf123

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 03:53

I would love to see him in a Ferrari one day. Let's hope that overtaking is not too easy from now on because his racecraft could otherwise make the difference.

He and Hamilton are the best overtakers in F1. They are the only ones able to overtake when others cannot.

That's what racing is all about.


#13 BRK

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 05:01

No, not yet. I rate him highly and have followed his races closely since he burst into F1, watching him race I still think he needs a lot more experience to become a solid, top line driver capable of doing a good all round job. It's possible that his current machinery suits his style perfectly and he's doing reasonably well because he's comfortable with the team and their approach: I'm not sure he will do as well if you took him out of this comfort zone. The worst thing you could do is plunge him into the deep end at a top team, it could wreck his career. Remember Alesi.

#14 baddog

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 05:27

Eventually. He has great potential, but the step up is always bigger than it looks, so we will see. At the least he is a damned good upper midfielder in the Alesi mould.

#15 Bunchies

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 05:39

No, not yet. I rate him highly and have followed his races closely since he burst into F1, watching him race I still think he needs a lot more experience to become a solid, top line driver capable of doing a good all round job. It's possible that his current machinery suits his style perfectly and he's doing reasonably well because he's comfortable with the team and their approach: I'm not sure he will do as well if you took him out of this comfort zone. The worst thing you could do is plunge him into the deep end at a top team, it could wreck his career. Remember Alesi.


Think about it this way. He was quick in Toyota, with bridgestones and refueling. He was quick last year at Sauber with bridgestones and no refueling. He is quick this year with pirellis, no refueling.

#16 DILLIGAF

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 05:52

Would love to see him in a Ferrari, McLaren or maybe even Mercedes. He's an exciting prospect so i'm sure the big teams would be watching him with interest.

#17 BRK

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 06:48

Think about it this way. He was quick in Toyota, with bridgestones and refueling. He was quick last year at Sauber with bridgestones and no refueling. He is quick this year with pirellis, no refueling.


Of course, but he only drove two grands prix for Toyota, and both Saubers he's driven have been easy on the tyres -something that might suit his particular aggressive driving style. There's no question in my mind that he's very talented, however IMO it's too early to think about moving to a top team. A pole and a win in a slower car will help him enormously and should tell us if he's capable of performing well under pressure.

#18 Disgrace

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 07:12

Not everybody is Sebastian Vettel. Who was the last driver, before him to win a race in a midfield car? Vettel at Monza in 2008, then who...? Herbert in a Stewart?

#19 phil1993

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 07:28

I think there are a large number of young drivers that could do a brilliant job in a top car. Kobayashi is one of them :up: The problem is that the McLaren seats are likely to be locked out until 2015, Red Bull will promote one of their young guys, so Ferrari is the only option. Nevertheless, it isn't a bad option!


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#20 glorius&victorius

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 07:34

If he wouldnt be signed up by a top team... i think it would only be that he is Japanese... (as all Japanese F1 drivers in the past have not shown great talent and consistency)

#21 BRK

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 07:34

RB's pole with the Stewart in France, Herbert's win the same year, Fisico's poles with the Benetton and later Force India, his win in the Jordan, Panis at Monaco, Hulkenberg's pole in the Williams last year....it's not impossible. Wet races tend to even out performance differentials, I think Kobayashi could get a pole/win in the Sauber soon, we'll see.

#22 ForzaGTR

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 07:41

Not everybody is Sebastian Vettel. Who was the last driver, before him to win a race in a midfield car? Vettel at Monza in 2008, then who...? Herbert in a Stewart?


Hamilton Hungary 2009, he didn't need rain either.

#23 orndorf

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 07:49

Webber wasnt that impressed with him when he was following him for a few laps in Singapore last year."wild" is one word he used.

He is still learning his craft but he is the most impressive out of the up and comers,i like him a lot.Sauber is a great place for him,maybe a Renault seat next year or te year after would be a good progression as long as Renault stay competitive.

#24 phil1993

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 07:51

Well I'd rather the grid be made up of attacking drivers like Kobayashi than dull drivers.

#25 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 07:52

Not everybody is Sebastian Vettel. Who was the last driver, before him to win a race in a midfield car? Vettel at Monza in 2008, then who...? Herbert in a Stewart?


That Toro Rosso was pretty damn quick in 2008, particularly the Monza weekend. Even Bourdais qualified very high.

#26 Muppetmad

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 07:53

Not everybody is Sebastian Vettel. Who was the last driver, before him to win a race in a midfield car? Vettel at Monza in 2008, then who...? Herbert in a Stewart?


Well, it depends on if you count the 2008 BMW as a midfield car or not - if so, then Kubica in Canada.

#27 marcoferrari

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 07:54

They said that about Kimi, but I don't understand how the toro rosso crash kids are getting talk about replacing a class driver like Mark Webber, and Koba a much better river than both of them needs more experience.


Strange, because it was Mr. Kobayashi who has topped the last years chart of overall spins, mistakes and crashes published by AutoMotorSport... :lol:

Edited by marcoferrari, 29 April 2011 - 07:54.


#28 jcbc3

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 07:56

Webber wasnt that impressed with him when he was following him for a few laps in Singapore last year."wild" is one word he used.

...



:rotfl: @ Webber

Webber shouldn't be the one talking of wild. Last year alone he rear ended a car in front of him no less than three times.

[edit]
Forgot to add that for the purpose of the thread: Yes, please. Failing that I wouldn't mind Sauber becoming a top team.
[/edit]

Edited by jcbc3, 29 April 2011 - 07:58.


#29 phil1993

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 08:01

Strange, because it was Mr. Kobayashi who has topped the last years chart of overall spins, mistakes and crashes published by AutoMotorSport... :lol:

IIRC, Kobayashi crashed out of two races due to his own errors - Canada & Singapore. Overall, he was quite good. He makes mistakes in practices which is a good thing.

#30 primer

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 08:11

Mclaren and RBR are good with the drivers they have. But Ferrari could -and should- hire him to replace Massa. Who knows Koba might even outperform Fernando and emerge as their new 'team leader'.

Mercedes are another option, they will soon discover the need to get rid of Schumacher (as Ferrari did with Raikkonen), and Koba might fit in. But they might prefer di Resta over Kamui Kobayashi.

#31 Bunchies

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 09:46

Webber wasnt that impressed with him when he was following him for a few laps in Singapore last year."wild" is one word he used.


Let's not forget that Webber described him that way because he was driving the car at the very limit during those laps. When Webber said it, it seemed like a compliment if anything.

#32 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 09:54

Eh, I still don't think he's proved enough to warrant a drive from the top teams yet.

He is driving well, don't get me wrong, and he is very quick, so it would be nice, but he is only in his 2nd full season.

Needs a bit more experience if i'm honest.

by that conservative approach lewis would have not got the seat at mclaren
sometimes you have to take a chance
koba has proven to be fast, cool and very good racecraft
he's made some mistakes but not so many. who hasn't?

#33 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 09:55

Mclaren and RBR are good with the drivers they have. But Ferrari could -and should- hire him to replace Massa. Who knows Koba might even outperform Fernando and emerge as their new 'team leader'.

Mercedes are another option, they will soon discover the need to get rid of Schumacher (as Ferrari did with Raikkonen), and Koba might fit in. But they might prefer di Resta over Kamui Kobayashi.

ferrari could also get rid of alonso and save some money

#34 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 09:55

What, F3 and GP2 champion Lewis Hamilton?

It was almost a fluke that Kobayashi even got into F1.

#35 Disgrace

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 10:36

Indeed it is the foundations of the careers of Coulthard, Trulli and even Schumacher are based upon unfortunate events upon their predecessors. Now that he's here, he's doing a great job as reigning rookie of the year which is as much as he can do at the moment.

#36 MickStephenson

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 11:18

Webber wasnt that impressed with him when he was following him for a few laps in Singapore last year."wild" is one word he used.


Who took more of his competitors out of the race last season? Webber or Koba? Webber can hardly talk, he was positively benefiting from taking other drivers out some of the time too.

#37 Hairpin

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 12:28

I think that Kobyashi would be a good partner for Vettel in RBR. He might very well be one of the very best drivers out there. Hope that one day we will see if it's true.

#38 Hairpin

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 12:31

Strange, because it was Mr. Kobayashi who has topped the last years chart of overall spins, mistakes and crashes published by AutoMotorSport... :lol:

I remember Casey Stoners first season in MotoGP. He crashed a lot. Then again, he kept up with the leaders on a bike that belonged in the midfield. Pushing your vehicle closer to the limit gives you less margins for errors.

Edited by Hairpin, 29 April 2011 - 12:32.


#39 primer

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 12:36

ferrari could also get rid of alonso and save some money

Absolutely, but only if Kamui proves to be quicker than him. First they need to rid themselves of the slower, more erratic Massa.

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#40 Group B

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 12:45

Ferrari or Red Bull. He's too much of a wild thing for McLaren.

#41 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 12:46

Absolutely, but only if Kamui proves to be quicker than him. First they need to rid themselves of the slower, more erratic Massa.

they do that
fernando is faster than you ;)

#42 F1EC

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 12:51

Nobody is saying anything about them replacing Mark Webber.
I havn't heard a single thing from anyone about that. I've heard about Riccardio replacing Webber, and the reason being is because he was brought up with the Red Bull Young Driver Program, and is young and talented. Which is the same sort of hype Vettel got.


Actually, lots of people have been talking about it, and it's been covered in a number of news stories. Here's some, off the top of my head at Fox Sport, Sporting Life and Autosport

Edited by F1EC, 29 April 2011 - 12:52.


#43 Dunder

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 12:55

I don't think so.

He is great to watch but I have doubts about his raw speed. It is one of those situations where I hope I am wrong.

#44 Kubiccia

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 14:04

Ferrari or Red Bull. He's too much of a wild thing for McLaren.


Well, Mclaren have Hamilton and this guys, sometimes, gets as wild as one can.

The problem for Koba in a Mclaren would be that he doesn't have much of a "cheating" attitude.

Imo, Koba is a fantastic driver and not because of his overtakes but because of his qualifying and race pace speed.


PS: Please, No Mercedes for him. Sauber is already better than the Brackley team, China was a fluke.

#45 KoezhVukotic

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 14:11

Well, Mclaren have Hamilton and this guys, sometimes, gets as wild as one can.

The problem for Koba in a Mclaren would be that he doesn't have much of a "cheating" attitude.

Imo, Koba is a fantastic driver and not because of his overtakes but because of his qualifying and race pace speed.


PS: Please, No Mercedes for him. Sauber is already better than the Brackley team, China was a fluke.

Cheating attitude? Are you saying that you have to be a cheater to drive for them? I certainly would not say Button is a cheater and Liegate seems to have been a stupid mistake rather than malice by Hamilton
:down:


#46 Grundle

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 14:12

Well, Mclaren have Hamilton and this guys, sometimes, gets as wild as one can.

The problem for Koba in a Mclaren would be that he doesn't have much of a "cheating" attitude.

Imo, Koba is a fantastic driver and not because of his overtakes but because of his qualifying and race pace speed.


PS: Please, No Mercedes for him. Sauber is already better than the Brackley team, China was a fluke.

Worst post ever. McLaren have a cheating attitude :confused: I suppose if McLaren had commited Saubers rear wing oversight, that would be "evidence" to you.... Sauber faster than Mercedes :lol: Hamilton wild :confused: maybe in 2007. Koba wouldn't be rated half as high as he is, if not for his great overtaking prowess. I would not say his quali and race pace is that special, but good enough.

Edited by Grundle, 29 April 2011 - 14:14.


#47 Barky

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 14:13

I don't think so.

He is great to watch but I have doubts about his raw speed. It is one of those situations where I hope I am wrong.


Agreed. Seems like a nice guy and has pulled of some nice overtaking moves (I think his Japan race is a little overrated, to be honest), but I just haven't seen anything from him that blows me away. Just my opinion though.

#48 Unbiased

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 14:24

Everyone in the paddock highly respects Kobayashi's skills, including the drivers. He is at the same level as Alonso/Hamilton/Vettel, but lacks the machinery. They aren't perfect either.

Yes, many will now rage about what I said (being fans of one of those drivers and of course, no one can be as good), but that is the feeling in the paddock by people who actually do this for a living. Everyone would love to have Kobayashi as a driver, unfortunately they are chained to contracts too.

Ferrari and Renault are monitoring his races closely this season, they will offer a seat if he keeps doing what he does. Ferrari because they have no belief in Massa en Renault for when Kubica won't return (which is pretty much the feeling although everyone likes to pretend he will be back to create a positive thing).

This notion of 'not enough experience' doesn't fly with this new type of F1. Look at Di Resta/Sutil, Vettel/Webber, Hamilton/Button, or Rosberg/Schumacher for instance. Experienced drivers are taught lessons by the lesser experienced.

Talent is talent, experience is overrated these days and just a selling point for a driver or PR talk by the team.

Kobayashi is one of the most talented and skilled drivers of the last decade.

The fact he didn't achieve legendary things in other leagues means nothing. Schumacher was being beaten by Frentzen and his brother Ralf consistently in other leagues. F1 is different in every aspect and someone who is totally hopeless in, let's say GP2, drives astonishing in an F1 car because it just suits him.

#49 Ramses1348

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 14:47

Everyone in the paddock highly respects Kobayashi's skills, including the drivers. He is at the same level as Alonso/Hamilton/Vettel, but lacks the machinery. They aren't perfect either.

Yes, many will now rage about what I said (being fans of one of those drivers and of course, no one can be as good), but that is the feeling in the paddock by people who actually do this for a living. Everyone would love to have Kobayashi as a driver, unfortunately they are chained to contracts too.

Ferrari and Renault are monitoring his races closely this season, they will offer a seat if he keeps doing what he does. Ferrari because they have no belief in Massa en Renault for when Kubica won't return (which is pretty much the feeling although everyone likes to pretend he will be back to create a positive thing).

This notion of 'not enough experience' doesn't fly with this new type of F1. Look at Di Resta/Sutil, Vettel/Webber, Hamilton/Button, or Rosberg/Schumacher for instance. Experienced drivers are taught lessons by the lesser experienced.

Talent is talent, experience is overrated these days and just a selling point for a driver or PR talk by the team.

Kobayashi is one of the most talented and skilled drivers of the last decade.

The fact he didn't achieve legendary things in other leagues means nothing. Schumacher was being beaten by Frentzen and his brother Ralf consistently in other leagues. F1 is different in every aspect and someone who is totally hopeless in, let's say GP2, drives astonishing in an F1 car because it just suits him.


wow, perhaps you should have chosen another name before posting such a thing :o

In my opinion di resta looks much more convincing than Kobayashi, if a top seat would become available, I think he would be the one chosen for it




#50 Kraken

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 14:49

This notion of 'not enough experience' doesn't fly with this new type of F1. Look at Di Resta/Sutil, Vettel/Webber, Hamilton/Button, or Rosberg/Schumacher for instance. Experienced drivers are taught lessons by the lesser experienced.


That made me chuckle. One season in a car that didn't fit him and Hamilton taught Button lessons? Let's see how this season pans out first. Not forgetting that Lewis costs three times as much so should be doing three times better. :p

As to the subject I personally think Kobayshi is overrated by a lot of younger fans. I wouldn't want him in my team as he takes too many risks. Points is all that matters. There's no money or trophies for being the best overtaker.