83 replies to this topic

[Amphicar]

http://www.tvcream.c...g=jeremy-carrad

Many thanks to Vitesse2 and Geoff E for helping out my increasingly fallible memory (again). I had completely forgotten "Tom Tom" but that is definitely the programme I had in mind.

[MCS]

And sadly not recorded by the broadcaster ....
Possibly the technology of that time did not allow recording of live TV?
But if it had, being the BBC, with their track record for wiping their own archives to save buying new tape stock, they would surely have disappeared in any case.

Yes, indeed. Regrettable is an understatement.

I've never been a particularly big fan of the BBC - for reasons we needn't go into here - but that aside, have to wonder how much of my resentment towards them is borne out of the simple fact that they deleted so much of their work to "save" money...

And as usual in these cases, has anybody been brought "to justice' or been named...?

Edited by MCS, 01 May 2011 - 15:28.

[Lec CRP1]

Yes, indeed. Regrettable is an understatement.

I've never been a particularly big fan of the BBC - for reasons we needn't go into here - but that aside, have to wonder how much of my resentment towards them is borne out of the simple fact that they deleted so much of their work to "save" money...

And as usual in these cases, has anybody been brought "to justice' or been named...?

I think a 60 minute reel of 2 inch Ampex videotape cost around £100 in the 1960s. Others here who were alive then would know what £100 could have bought back then. And the BBC did have an awful lot of them - around 12,000 in 1968. Television Centre was stuffed full of the things, and that was even after the amount they would have wiped during the previous decade. The tapes themselves were never properly archived, but were under the charge of the BBC Engineering Department, who had a remit to reuse as many tapes as possible...

The film copies were usually sent to BBC Enterprises for potential sales. And for this we do have a named "culprit" for any destruction that went on - Pamela Nash, the film recording clerk, who was in charge of junking stuff once the sales rights had expired. Apparently, she later said she thought she was only binning old sales prints and reckoned the master copies were in the BBC Film Library. Turned out she had the only copies. Oops.

Edited by Lec CRP1, 01 May 2011 - 22:36.

[Vitesse2]

I think a 60 minute reel of 2 inch Ampex videotape cost around £100 in the 1960s. Others here who were alive then would know what £100 could have bought back then.

About one-fifth of a basic Austin or Morris Mini. Or one twelfth of an Austin Westminster. (1962 prices)

[Amphicar]

I think a 60 minute reel of 2 inch Ampex videotape cost around £100 in the 1960s. Others here who were alive then would know what £100 could have bought back then.

The trophy for the 1962 British Grand Prix at Aintree: http://www.flickr.co...ton/1880875466/

[theracer120]

I recall reading an article on Murray Walker where he mentioned doing the 1949? British Grand Prix on radio.

Also, this isn't F1 but it's interesting that NASCAR's first ABC Wide World of Sports television broadcast came before USAC's first ABC Wide World of Sports television broadcast. NASCAR's first ABC broadcast was in 1961, and USAC's 1965 to my knowledge.

Unless ABC did some of the more minor USAC races before then?

Also, ABC Wide World of Sports did a broadcast of the 1967 Le Mans race and Monaco from that same year, they both survive still. That shot of Bandini's fatal wreck from the helicopter was from the American ABC broadcast.

Here in Australia, our ABC did broadcasts of races as early as 1959 and they still survive.

And the 1949 and 1950 Indy 500's were apparently locally done live, flag-to-flag.

Edited by theracer120, 01 May 2011 - 23:52.

[Tim Murray]

I recall reading an article on Murray Walker where he mentioned doing the 1949? British Grand Prix on radio.

1949 indeed. In his autobiography Murray says that the first TV commentary he did was also in 1949, at a motorcycle hillclimb at Knatts Valley in Kent.

[Geoff E]

1955 Aintree was last British GP NOT televised.
However I remember watching,Snetterton F1,Goodwood 9hrs,Oulton Park sportscars,Oulton Park Gold Cup F1,Castle Combe F1 all live.

I was at Combe today which was the third time its racing had been televised live (this time on Motors TV).

The programme reports that for the Avon Trophy Race (1 Oct 1955), the first 15 and last 20 minutes were broadcast, commentary by Ken Best.

The second occasion of the televising from Combe was a motorcyle meeting 27 May 1961.

[Mackey]

Hi again. The website says correct answer was the Monaco GP. 21st May of 1950.

[mscheeres]

On another note, is there anyone who might have these broadcasts available for trade or purchase?

This was even before my father was born, so I would have no idea if there were any ways of recording.

Edited by mscheeres, 12 May 2011 - 07:58.

[Rob29]

On another note, is there anyone who might have these broadcasts available for trade or purchase?

This was even before my father was born, so I would have no idea if there were any ways of recording.

Not sure which broadcasts you are referring to,but I seem to remember the first BBC video recorder being shown on 'Tomorows World' in the 50s,before that they would need to point a movie camera at a TV screen to get a recording.This is the first I have read that 1950 Monaco was shown-if so I guess only within range of local transmitter? Eurovision did not start until later.First season we saw any serious coverage was 1958,when BBC sent a film unit to each GP-maybe 15 mins highlights a few days later.

Edited by Rob29, 12 May 2011 - 16:36.

[mscheeres]

Not sure which broadcasts you are referring to,but I seem to remember the first BBC video recorder being shown on 'Tomorows World' in the 50s,before that they would need to point a movie camera at a TV screen to get a recording.This is the first I have read that 1950 Monaco was shown-if so I guess only within range of local transmitter? Eurovision did not start until later.First season we saw any serious coverage was 1958,when BBC sent a film unit to each GP-maybe 15 mins highlights a few days later.

Not really any race in particular, I was just wondering if there was a slight chance someone recorded it in some way as apparantly the BBC didn't. Would love to see this kind of stuff back.

[Geoff E]

... I seem to remember the first BBC video recorder being shown on 'Tomorows World' in the 50s ...

Alas, the programme wasn't born till 1965 http://www.bbc.co.uk...tomorrowsworld/

[Lec CRP1]

Alas, the programme wasn't born till 1965 http://www.bbc.co.uk...tomorrowsworld/

Richard Dimbleby introduced an item on "Panorama" about the BBC's in-house built videotape system, VERA in 1958, which is probably what's being referred to here. It's available on YouTube if anyone wants to see it. Sadly, they could never get the thing to work properly and the Beeb ended up buying a couple of Ampex 2" Quadraplex machines later that year instead.

Edited by Lec CRP1, 12 May 2011 - 18:08.

[dweller23]

I'm quite young, but F1 broadcast history is one of my favourite things.

I have a few questions concerning the information that was given in this thread:

1. Was Pescara 57 really showed? I had an information that it wasn't broadcasted by RAI (along with Italy 66 - but I don't think it's true)
2. I read that Great Britain 55 was last British GP not to be shown in TV. What about British GPs in 68 and 76? Were they shown? If so, on which channels?
3. I know that there's full coverage of Brazil 76 and I think it's from French TV, so maybe there were some non-European races before Japan 76, which were shown live in Europe?
4. How F1 coverage was influenced by the sponsorship, which came in 1968 and by energy crisis in 1974?

If anyone is interested: Polish TV first broadcast was apparently Monaco 77. First full race shown by Polish TV was Belgium 77.

[Tony Lethbridge]

The first live GP I clearly remember watching on BBC was Monaco 1960. They showed the start, one or two updates, and the finish. Raymond Baxter was, of course, the commentator. The BBC also showed Monaco the following year but again not in its entirety. I clearly remember being impressed by Stirling Moss but sadly, as a Ferrari buff, have no recollection of the sharknose cars, only Richie Ginther and Phil Hill. In 1962 I recall watching the French GP, from Rouen, Aintree and Monza, as well as a wet saloon car race from Brands on August Bank holiday Monday for which Graham Hill had flown back after winning the German GP the day before. ITV used to show the TT from Goodwood live on 'World of Sport' (or its predecessor) intermixed with the wrestling. The first full length GP I remember (or think I do) was from South Africa and shown live on ITV (Saturday lunch time) in the late seventies.

A few other races that come to mind are the Guards Trophy being won by Roger Penske in the Zerox Special, Innes Ireland winning a wet F1 race at Snetterton (1964?) and Jim Clark in the Aintree 200. Also from Snetterton BBC showed a F2 race on Good Friday 1967 which was a real cracker.

[mikell1]

I do remember finding out that the '78 British GP from Brands was shown flag to flag on BBC. I found out after I'd got back...from Brands Hatch.Last GP I ever went to, I mean six quid a ticket was a bit steep

Edited by mikell1, 13 May 2011 - 12:51.

[Paul Jeffrey]

I'm quite young, but F1 broadcast history is one of my favourite things.

I have a few questions concerning the information that was given in this thread:

1. Was Pescara 57 really showed? I had an information that it wasn't broadcasted by RAI (along with Italy 66 - but I don't think it's true)
2. I read that Great Britain 55 was last British GP not to be shown in TV. What about British GPs in 68 and 76? Were they shown? If so, on which channels?
3. I know that there's full coverage of Brazil 76 and I think it's from French TV, so maybe there were some non-European races before Japan 76, which were shown live in Europe?
4. How F1 coverage was influenced by the sponsorship, which came in 1968 and by energy crisis in 1974?

If anyone is interested: Polish TV first broadcast was apparently Monaco 77. First full race shown by Polish TV was Belgium 77.

There was certainly TV coverage of the 1968 British GP at Brands Hatch. It was the first race I watched adn I was fascinated by the high winged Lotuses of Hill and Oliver and the rob Walker car for eventual winner Jo Siffert. It was shown on ITV as was the classic Stewart-Rindt Silverstone duel a year later. i would love to see these races again but i dont know if they were preserved or not

[dweller23]

There was certainly TV coverage of the 1968 British GP at Brands Hatch. It was the first race I watched adn I was fascinated by the high winged Lotuses of Hill and Oliver and the rob Walker car for eventual winner Jo Siffert. It was shown on ITV as was the classic Stewart-Rindt Silverstone duel a year later. i would love to see these races again but i dont know if they were preserved or not

It's actually interesting, the whole deal between ITV and BBC. BBC, apparently, showed Italian GP in 1969,while ITV, surely, showed 1970 Italian GP. It's a huge shame, that BBC and, as I heard from Italian sources, RAI wiped out their archives. RAI showed loads of F1 in 50s, 60s and 70s.

[LittleChris]

The first full length GP I remember (or think I do) was from South Africa and shown live on ITV (Saturday lunch time) in the late seventies.

1978 with commentary by Andy Marriott IIRC. ITV also covered the Swedish GP live that year but not in it's entirety.

First GP I remember live on the box was the 1973 British GP with Raymond Baxter on the mic and Jody in the pit wall

[mscheeres]

Apologies for the bump, The 1955 Monaco Grand Prix has been broadcasted by Television Monte Carlo according to the great film "Grand Prix '55" by Bill Southworth.

This is shown in that film:

I recall reading an article on Murray Walker where he mentioned doing the 1949? British Grand Prix on radio.

Also, this isn't F1 but it's interesting that NASCAR's first ABC Wide World of Sports television broadcast came before USAC's first ABC Wide World of Sports television broadcast. NASCAR's first ABC broadcast was in 1961, and USAC's 1965 to my knowledge.

Unless ABC did some of the more minor USAC races before then?

Also, ABC Wide World of Sports did a broadcast of the 1967 Le Mans race and Monaco from that same year, they both survive still. That shot of Bandini's fatal wreck from the helicopter was from the American ABC broadcast.

Here in Australia, our ABC did broadcasts of races as early as 1959 and they still survive.

And the 1949 and 1950 Indy 500's were apparently locally done live, flag-to-flag.

ABC also did the 1966 Sebring 12 hours....in color! Excellent film (one of my favorites to watch ), especially since the rest of the WWOS show is in black/white! I have the 67 and 69 ABC WWOS Le Mans broadcasts. I haven't really seen 1967 so far but 1969 is live (well, it does include the last two laps live, mainly from helicopter). CanAm was also shown in 1967 on ABC WWOS (if my sources are right).

Japan 76 was apparantly shown on Channel 9, a friend of mine is chasing a copy but has been doing so for years. Maybe it's just one of those myths

Edited by mscheeres, 05 December 2011 - 18:41.

[Vitesse2]

Not Formula 1 but motor racing at Crystal Palace, London, was televised by the BBC's pioneer service as early as 1937-38.

DCN

I came across a brief mention in The Motor that the BBC also looked at the possibility of showing up to four meetings from Brooklands in 1938. However, it appears that the logistical and technical difficulties of transmitting the pictures over the then unheard-of distance of 23 miles from Weybridge to Alexandra Palace were too great ...

[jonpollak]

The Broken Biscuit Corporation .....

Damn you Nye..
I just sprayed my tea all over the blinkin' laptop.
Jp

[Geoff E]

Not F1, not TV, probably not first either ...

5th June 1937
BBC Home Service
2:30 - Shelsley Walsh: the Midland Automobile Club Hill Climb. A running commentary by FJ Findon and Alan Hess on the first part of this afternoon's programme.

(Ended 3.15, to be followed by 65 minutes of Polo.)

[Vitesse2]

Earliest mention I can find of a radio broadcast from Shelsley is June 1932:



I think the 1929 Tourist Trophy was the first covered on radio, but the live broadcast seems to have been only from Belfast on a local transmitter. A 15-minute summary by SCH Davis was also broadcast from Glasgow that evening, relayed by all stations except 5GB (Daventry).

Edited by Vitesse2, 10 January 2012 - 13:19.

[Ray Bell]

Wasn't the Australian Grand Prix of 1956 televised live from Albert Park?

It would have only been to Melbourne, TV was in its infancy here those days, introduced just in time for the Olympic Games.

The AGP of 1958 was the first-ever live broadcast over the Blue Mountains, from Bathurst to Sydney. I think that also predated the vital link for live TV between Sydney and Melbourne.

The 1963 AGP was televised live, IIRC, between the major cities.

[Lee Nicolle]

Wasn't the Australian Grand Prix of 1956 televised live from Albert Park?

It would have only been to Melbourne, TV was in its infancy here those days, introduced just in time for the Olympic Games.

The AGP of 1958 was the first-ever live broadcast over the Blue Mountains, from Bathurst to Sydney. I think that also predated the vital link for live TV between Sydney and Melbourne.

The 1963 AGP was televised live, IIRC, between the major cities.

No TV in SA until 59. We were a deprived state!

[nmansellfan]

I'm quite young, but F1 broadcast history is one of my favourite things.

I have a few questions concerning the information that was given in this thread:

1. Was Pescara 57 really showed? I had an information that it wasn't broadcasted by RAI (along with Italy 66 - but I don't think it's true)
2. I read that Great Britain 55 was last British GP not to be shown in TV. What about British GPs in 68 and 76? Were they shown? If so, on which channels?
3. I know that there's full coverage of Brazil 76 and I think it's from French TV, so maybe there were some non-European races before Japan 76, which were shown live in Europe?
4. How F1 coverage was influenced by the sponsorship, which came in 1968 and by energy crisis in 1974?

If anyone is interested: Polish TV first broadcast was apparently Monaco 77. First full race shown by Polish TV was Belgium 77.

Bit of a late reply but here goes!

1) I've heard the same thing about Pescara 57 but only hearsay really.
2) '68 Was shown by ITV as Paul said. There are clips of it in the Jo Siffert film 'Live Fast Die Young'. It may appear in a future ESPN Classic programme, as the 1969 British GP did a few weeks ago (which I thought would never happen, having long been wiped!)
3) I guess you have more data than anyone now from your other thread
4) I've heard probably the same stories as you that in the UK at least, the BBC refused to show any races in '68 becuse of Team Lotus' Gold Leaf sponsorship. How much is true of that I don't know, I would like to know more details too. I've seen short ten minute highlights of around 4 races from '74 from French TV, plus the BBC's broadcast of the '74 British GP (from ESPN classics rebroadcast, anyway).

Out there on the net is about an hours highlights of the 1959 Monaco GP, from Netherlands television, which is the oldest GP race TV broadcast I know of that still exists, in part anyway. I've also seen clips over the years of TV broadcasts (not film documentaries) of the 1966 Belgian GP, 1967 Monaco GP, 1967 Italian GP, 1969 Italian GP and a colour version of the 1970 Monaco GP. I just wish I had copies of it all!

Edited by nmansellfan, 12 January 2012 - 13:04.

[Vitesse2]

Bit of a late reply but here goes!

1) I've heard the same thing about Pescara 57 but only hearsay really.

According to the broadcasting listings in La Stampa, the first hour and the finish of the Pescara GP were covered on radio, but not television. On radio, it was sharing coverage with the World Cycling Championships from Waregem, which also dominated TV on what was then Italy's only channel.

The radio coverage of the race started at 11am, at whiich time TV was showing Sunday Mass. This was followed by "La posta di Padre Mariano" at 11.30 and then the cycling from 2pm until 5.45

[pacificquay]

Astonishingly when you think about it now, the first year every race in the World Championship was shown live on terrestrial television in the UK was as late as 1995

[Dave Williamson]

Pre-war, the only way of recording TV programmes was on enormous - and expensive - metal discs. I believe some have survived and I did see something on TV a few years ago with a few minutes of a variety programme from Alexandra Palace, but even after extensive restoration it was barely watchable! Almost all of the BBC's early output went out live.

Magnetic tape was a German invention and a closely guarded secret to which the Allies were not privy until 1945.

------------------------------------------

In actual fact, the recording industry was well under way in the 1930's, with wire being used as the medium. Then followed special thin steel "tapes" that were preferred for official recordings ( BBC etc ) ...not like as they became very dangerous when they broke!!

This format was used (infrequently) until a US soldier returned from Europe to the USA with a captured German "Magnetophone" recorder. This device which was "reversed engineered" and given to Bing Crosby to try out. He was ecstatic and soon funded more R&D for the project by ordering 2 machines!

This soon became the tape machine that pioneered the formation of the recording division of the AMPEX Corporation.

[Dave Williamson]

Pre-war, the only way of recording TV programmes was on enormous - and expensive - metal discs. I believe some have survived and I did see something on TV a few years ago with a few minutes of a variety programme from Alexandra Palace, but even after extensive restoration it was barely watchable! Almost all of the BBC's early output went out live.

Magnetic tape was a German invention and a closely guarded secret to which the Allies were not privy until 1945.

------------------------------------------

In actual fact, the recording industry was well under way in the 1930's, with wire being used as the medium.

Then followed special thin steel "tapes" that were preferred for official recordings ( BBC etc ) ...not liked as they became very dangerous when they broke!! This format was used (infrequently) until a US soldier returned from Europe to the USA with a captured German "Magnetophone" recorder. This device was quickly "reversed engineered" and given to Bing Crosby to try out. He was ecstatic and soon funded more R&D for the project by ordering 2 machines!

This became the tape machine that pioneered the formation of the recording division of the AMPEX Corporation.

[elansprint72]

Stereo already!

[mscheeres]

Reims 1961 was shown on Eurovision (or something similar). Here is the finish from the Sfide Jim Clark program: