17 replies to this topic

[simonlewisbooks]

The recent Indy 500 special feature in MOTOR SPORT included much about British chassis being used in the event and the influence of F1.
The ground effect Chaparral was mentioned and that looked much like a Lotus 79 clone (as indeed were most of the effective F1 cars in 1979!)
I also recall there was the Longhorn chassis said to be a Williams FW07 built under licence.
A decade earlier the 66 Lola Indy winning design became the 67 Italian GP-winning Honda.
Most of the Brabham Indy cars of the 60s appeared to be beefed-up F1 designs , as did the early Lotus', and of course there was the 56 Turbine....
But how many other chassis types have actually competed in both F1 and at the 500 with reasonable results since the dawn of the "funny car" era in the early 60s?

Edited by simonlewisbooks, 29 April 2011 - 17:05.

[alansart]

How much of the McLaren M16 was there in The M23 and visa versa. They look similar.

[Sisyphus]

Weren't Len Terry's Eagle F1 and Indy designs (1966) designed more or less contemporaneously? The Indy design being beefier and with bigger fuel tanks, quick fill connections etc but similar in shape and concept.

I recall a Sports Car Graphic article at the time that compared the two chassis. That was a clear attempt to kill two birds with one stone if I'm remembering correctly.

[scheivlak]

And then there was the Cooper T54, OK different - but not completely unlike a F1 car.......

[Amphicar]

Was there any commonality between the Ferrari 637 (Ferrari's abortive IndyCar) and the F1/87 - apart from Gustav Brunner's design input?

[JacnGille]

How much of the McLaren M16 was there in The M23 and visa versa. They look similar.

The 1977 McLaren M24 was even closer than the M16.
http://www.flickr.co...N04/2972361814/

[TennisUK]

Ligier modified their pretty hopeless 1983 F1 car into an even more hopeless 1984 car if this counts.
http://www.f1rejects...bio/84-cart.jpg

And Theodore's 1983 effort used the monocoque from the 82 car, I believe.
http://www.flickr.co...@N03/4415734753

The aborted Lotus 96T from 1985 shares a designer and some similarity with the f1 cars of the time, too.
http://www.flickr.co...oto/5023509621/

[Mallory Dan]

March 81C based on the Orbitor, which was built around 792 parts IIRC.

[simonlewisbooks]

Was the mid 60's BRP a clean-sheet design or a re-jig of the F1 car?

[RA Historian]

Was the mid 60's BRP a clean-sheet design or a re-jig of the F1 car?

Good question, I have long wondered the same. I suspect that it was a "grown up" F-1 design, as the four cam 4.2 Ford was much more powerful than the 1.5 BRM. Also, was the car asymmetrical? Type number? If the F-1 cars were "001" and "002", as I saw the '63 and '64 cars called somewhere, would the Indy design have been 003?
Tom

[Tim Murray]

Also, was the car asymmetrical?

This photo, from DCN's WOEIT No 17B quiz thread, shows that it wasn't:

8
All photos strictly Copyright (or via): The GP Library

DCN

[Bloggsworth]

Good question, I have long wondered the same. I suspect that it was a "grown up" F-1 design, as the four cam 4.2 Ford was much more powerful than the 1.5 BRM. Also, was the car asymmetrical? Type number? If the F-1 cars were "001" and "002", as I saw the '63 and '64 cars called somewhere, would the Indy design have been 003?
Tom

The 64/65 Indy Lotus was not a redesigned 25/33, it was a design in its own right, and beefier than either of the former, and distinctly different in the engine bay and fuel-tank department, for a start refueling had to be allowed for. I remember crawling around upside down in the tub sticking gaffer tape inside the monocoque in order to stop the bag-tanks chafing on the rivet ends.

Loading Dan Gurney's 1964 car onto the transporter waiting to take it to Heathrow. That week I arrived at work at 8 AM on the Wednesday morning and left at 2:30 AM on Saturday morning, hopped on my Vespa to drive back to Bishops Stortford some 20 miles away and ran out of petrol at the end of Delamare Road.....




I'm sitting on the right and can't for the life of me remember the names of the other two and a half...

Edited by Bloggsworth, 04 May 2011 - 22:07.

[RA Historian]

Interesting info, but Simon and I were asking about the BRP...
Tom

[Bloggsworth]

Interesting info, but Simon and I were asking about the BRP...
Tom

Sorry, misunderstood.

[Tony Matthews]

The 64/65 Indy Lotus was not a redesigned 25/33, it was a design in its own right, and beefier than either of the former, and distinctly different in the engine bay and fuel-tank department, for a start refueling had to be allowed for. I remember crawling around upside down in the tub sticking gaffer tape inside the monocoque in order to stop the bag-tanks chafing on the rivet ends.

Loading Dan Gurney's 1964 car onto the transporter waiting to take it to Heathrow. That week I arrived at work at 8 AM on the Wednesday morning and left at 2:30 AM on Saturday morning, hopped on my Vespa to drive back to Bishops Stortford some 20 miles away and ran out of petrol at the end of Delamare Road.....




I'm sitting on the right and can't for the life of me remember the names of the other two and a half...

Great picture, lovely story, Bloggy, even if it was irrelevant to the thread...

[RobertE]

Re. The BRP cars.

Masten Gregory's stepfather, George Bryant, had, shall we say, made a few bob from mail order and Masten, although fairly potless by then, still wanted to race. So, he ordered two cars, to be paid for by Bryant.

They were derived from the BRP F1 cars (all they, or anyone, had to go on) but with a longer wheelbase and adjustable offset suspension, so were also useable on proper tracks. All suspension uprights were fabricated by BRP, wheels were by Halibrand and fuel tanks by ICI (sold at cost by one John Harvey-Jones). Bryant/Gregory had shipped over a dummy engine and transmission to allow the correct pickup points and the cars were shipped to Indy in March 1964, four months after the initial order. One was to be driven by Gregory, the other Johnny Boyd. They did well; Gregory finished 23rd and Boyd 13th. They raced until 1967 (at Indy and elsewhere) in different hands.

It became clear, when the cars were under restoration, that they were exceedingly well built. Their correct classification should be: BRP 65/1 and /2, given that the BRP had been kicked out of F1 by then, a matter which still irritates me now.

[RA Historian]

Thanks for the info, Robert.

They did well; Gregory finished 23rd and Boyd 13th.

Actually, they did not finish. Gregory dropped out after 59 laps with failed oil pressure, while Boyd did 140 laps before his gearbox broke. Having said that, I understand that Gregory ran quite high up in the race before his car broke.
Tom

[RobertE]

Sorry - I should have said 'classified'