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Qualifying Averages Between Team Mates


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#301 tyker

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 16:09

Strange... Probably you have missed a fact that Sutil COULD NOT use his DRS? (4-5 tenths advantage)... Just look at the times from all Nurburgring seasons before qualifying, DiResta was nowhere as he is here in Hungary, too... And did you count also Monaco and Canada qualifyings?

No i wasn't aware of that fact i will make an adjustment, no i didn't include Monaco or Canada

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#302 tyker

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 16:13

After Hungary (Hungary difference)

1. Bianchi 0.8s (0.21s)
2. Hulkenberg 0.62s (0.696s)
3. Ricciardo 0.53s (0.502s)
4. Pic 0.4s (0.326s)
5. Vettel 0.27s (-)
6. Button 0.17s (-0.232s)
7. Raikkonen 0.15s (-0.256s)
8. Maldonado 0.13s (0.002s)
9. Alonso 0.11s (0.138s)
10.Hamilton 0.08s (0.332s)
11.Di Resta 0.001s (-0.572s)*

*Amendment


Edited by tyker, 07 September 2013 - 13:58.


#303 marcoferrari

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 16:23

No i wasn't aware of that fact i will make an adjustment, no i didn't include Monaco or Canada


Ok... :) But isn t it also important to be fast in wet conditions? :)

Edited by marcoferrari, 27 July 2013 - 16:23.


#304 tyker

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 16:43

Ok... :) But isn t it also important to be fast in wet conditions? :)

Well of course but wet conditions are never constant and can render the results of the rest of the data to be somewhat meaningless

#305 marcoferrari

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 18:07

Well of course but wet conditions are never constant and can render the results of the rest of the data to be somewhat meaningless


But for example, today the track temperatures were also not constant... ;) Just few minutes from the checquered flag, the temperature drop was from 50 degree Celzius down to 46 and that makes also a difference in car behaviour... :)

#306 tyker

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 01:12

But for example, today the track temperatures were also not constant...;) Just few minutes from the checquered flag, the temperature drop was from 50 degree Celzius down to 46 and that makes also a difference in car behaviour... :)

Well i can live with a few hundredths as opposed to a few seconds :)

#307 marcoferrari

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 08:30

Well i can live with a few hundredths as opposed to a few seconds :)


:)

#308 tyker

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 14:12

After Monza (Monza difference)

1. Bianchi 0.75s (0.395s)
2. Hulkenberg 0.59s (0.45s)
3. Ricciardo 0.51s (0.366s)
4. Pic 0.32s (-0.157s)
5. Vettel 0.26s (0.213s)
6. Maldonado 0.16s (0.386s)

7. Raikkonen 0.151s (0.127s)
8. Button 0.147s (-0.013s)
9. Alonso 0.09s (-0.01s)
10.Hamilton 0.05s (-0.194s)
11.Sutil 0.003s (0.077s)



#309 coppilcus

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 17:01

... Thanks for your work, tyker!

Pretty close between all the drivers of the top teams..

Edited by coppilcus, 08 September 2013 - 17:02.


#310 HoldenRT

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 17:25

It's surprising that Alonso is so close.  Hamilton and Nico is less surprising.  Never realised Ricciardo's margin was so big.



#311 tyker

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:30

... Thanks for your work, tyker!

Pretty close between all the drivers of the top teams..

Thank you, close apart from Vettel/Webber i guess 



#312 tyker

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:31

It's surprising that Alonso is so close.  Hamilton and Nico is less surprising.  Never realised Ricciardo's margin was so big.

 

Yes Ricciardo has outqualified Vergne everytime 



#313 Iremos

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:32

Great statistics, thanks!



#314 tyker

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:57

 

After Singapore (Singapore difference)

1. Bianchi 0.67s (0.1s)
2. Hulkenberg 0.48s (-0.31s)
3. Ricciardo 0.47s (0.181s)
4. Pic 0.31s (0.209s)
5. Vettel 0.26s (0.311s)

6. Button 0.16s (0.255s) 

7. Maldonado 0.073s (-0.637s)

8. Alonso 0.069s (-0.48s)

9. Raikkonen 0.04s (-0.701s)

10.Sutil 0.03s (0.161s)
11.Hamilton 0.005s (-0.322s)
 



#315 tyker

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:58

Great statistics, thanks!

 

 Cheers



#316 tyker

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 11:57

After Korea (Korea difference)

1. Bianchi 0.62s (0.153s)
2. Hulkenberg 0.47s (0.414s)
3. Ricciardo 0.46s (0.364s)
4. Pic 0.27s (0.007s)
5. Vettel 0.26s (0.262s)

6. Button 0.14s (-0.003s) 

7. Alonso 0.09s (0.245s)

8. Sutil 0.06s (0.287s)
9. Grosjean 0.033s (0.65s)

10.Hamilton 0.03s (0.259s)

11.Maldonado 0.01s (-0.517s)



#317 Collective

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 12:41

2. Hulkenberg 0.47s (0.414s)

Wasn't it like 2 tenths today, instead of 4?

#318 tyker

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 14:02

Wasn't it like 2 tenths today, instead of 4?

Hulkenberg's fastest time was in Q2 



#319 matador1

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 15:05

Massa has been closer to Alonso in qualifying this year than ever before, yet it seems to be ignored, and everyone thinks he is slow now and a joke. 



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#320 DriveFastLiveSlow

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 15:48

Also, Nico very close to Hamilton.



#321 matador1

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 16:02

He is not including the wet or damp qualifying sessions between Rosberg and Hamilton which is favouring Rosberg. There is no reason to exclude Australia, and Canada, as the conditions were equal. He also has Hamilton 2 tenths behind Rosberg at Monza, where he should be using the Q1 qualifying times as Lewis was blocked in q2 on his best lap very badly.


Edited by matador1, 05 October 2013 - 16:05.


#322 MP422

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 16:02

Hulkenberg's fastest time was in Q2 

So this is all nonsense then, qualifying time is the time you qualified with.



#323 tyker

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 16:09

Massa has been closer to Alonso in qualifying this year than ever before, yet it seems to be ignored, and everyone thinks he is slow now and a joke. 

I agree that Massa is somewhat underestimated 



#324 tyker

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 16:18

So this is all nonsense then, qualifying time is the time you qualified with.

 

I use the fastest lap the drivers are capable of, the more laps available the better to see the potential of the driver, obviously in the case of Hulkenburg he must have messed up his lap in Q3, was he on fresh tyres for instance?



#325 Winter98

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 16:28

So this is all nonsense then, qualifying time is the time you qualified with.

Actually, I think you are 1/2 correct.  The other half of the equation, ie a comparison of official qualifying times, would be nice to see.  You could compile the numbers.


Edited by Winter98, 05 October 2013 - 16:30.


#326 tyker

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 16:35

He is not including the wet or damp qualifying sessions between Rosberg and Hamilton which is favouring Rosberg. There is no reason to exclude Australia, and Canada, as the conditions were equal. He also has Hamilton 2 tenths behind Rosberg at Monza, where he should be using the Q1 qualifying times as Lewis was blocked in q2 on his best lap very badly.

 

Yeah it was hard what to decide for Hamilton, he was blocked by Sutil but also he messed up his first run himself which also damaged his car so there was an element of self infliction as well. I've been accused of a bit of bias before when Hamilton was against Button so maybe i've leant to far the other way, i've no doubt we didn't see the full potential of Hamilton.



#327 sv401

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 16:52

So this is all nonsense then, qualifying time is the time you qualified with.

 

What if one driver of a midfield team gets knocked out in Q2, while the other makes it into Q3 and then posts a slow lap on prime tyres, knowing he has no chance against the top teams ?



#328 tyker

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 18:13

Basically what i'm trying to assess is the out and out speed of the drivers and they have 3 sets of qualifying tyres in order to go as fast as they can possibly go, the drivers have to be on the track in the same session and the track conditions have to be dry (consistent) and not wet (inconsistent).



#329 Raven8

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 22:40

He is not including the wet or damp qualifying sessions between Rosberg and Hamilton which is favouring Rosberg. There is no reason to exclude Australia, and Canada, as the conditions were equal. He also has Hamilton 2 tenths behind Rosberg at Monza, where he should be using the Q1 qualifying times as Lewis was blocked in q2 on his best lap very badly.

If someone makes such  a list every qualy should count not  a selective choice . I don't think it's that close between Hamilton & Rosberg



#330 tyker

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 19:45

After Japan (Japan difference)

1. Bianchi 0.51s (-0.638s)
2. Ricciardo 0.46s (-)*
3. Hulkenberg 0.45s (0.215s)
4. Pic 0.28s (0.323s)

5. Vettel 0.26s (-)*

6. Button 0.14s (0.161s)

7. Grosjean 0.06s (0.297s)

8. Alonso 0.05s (-0.287s)

9. Hamilton 0.04s (0.144s)

10.Di Resta 0.015s (0.604s)

11.Maldonado 0.01s (-0.05s)

 

*Vettel had KERS failure

*Vergne had brake failure


Edited by tyker, 12 October 2013 - 19:48.


#331 tyker

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 10:42

After India (India difference)

 

1. Bianchi 0.56s (1.168s)

2. Hulkenberg 0.47s (0.718s)

3. Ricciardo 0.45s (0.279s)

4. Vettel 0.29s (0.529s)

5. Pic 0.22s (-0.382s)

6. Button 0.12s (-0.093s)

7. Alonso 0.09s (0.504s)

8. Grosjean 0.06s (-)*

9. Bottas 0.05s (0.664s)

10.Hamilton 0.03s (-0.07s)

11.Di Resta 0.02s (0.029s)

 

*Grosjean did not use the soft tyres



#332 Wanderer

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 14:46

Are you sure you got the Ferrari numbers right?

 

Edit: I think I see my mistake now


Edited by Wanderer, 26 October 2013 - 14:54.


#333 tyker

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 16:37

Are you sure you got the Ferrari numbers right?

 

Edit: I think I see my mistake now

Yes i just used the Q2 times as Alonso did not use soft tyres in Q3 



#334 tyker

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 14:36

After Abu Dhabi (Abu Dhabi difference)

 

1. Bianchi 0.58s (0.8s)

2. Hulkenberg 0.46s (0.368s)

3. Ricciardo 0.44s (0.427s)

4. Vettel 0.25s (-0.118s)

5. Pic 0.18s (-0.276s)

6. Button 0.08s (-0.388s)

7. Alonso 0.076s (-0.104s)

8. Di Resta 0.05s (0.375s)

9. Bottas 0.04s (-0.082s)

10.Hamilton 0.023s (-0.082s)

11.Grosjean 0.017s (-0.406s)



#335 tyker

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 22:11

After Austin (Austin difference)

 

1. Bianchi 0.6s (0.873s)

2. Hulkenberg 0.48s (0.735s)

3. Ricciardo 0.45s (0.565s)

4. Vettel 0.24s (0.103s)

5. Alonso 0.17s (1.224s)

6. Pic 0.16s (-0.105s)

7. Button 0.06s (-0.177s)

8. Hamilton 0.058s (0.51s)

9. Di Resta 0.05s (-)*

10.Bottas 0.04s (-)*

11.Grosjean 0.02s (-)*

 

*Sutil blocked and brake failure

*Maldonado blocked

*Raikkonen absent


Edited by tyker, 16 November 2013 - 23:26.


#336 marcoferrari

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 22:19

After Austin (Austin difference)

 

1. Bianchi 0.6s (0.873s)

2. Hulkenberg 0.48s (0.735s)

3. Ricciardo 0.45s (0.565s)

4. Vettel 0.24s (0.103s)

5. Alonso 0.17s (1.224s)

6. Pic 0.16s (-0.105s)

7. Button 0.06s (-0.177s)

8. Hamilton 0.058s (0.51s)

9. Di Resta 0.05s (-)*

10.Bottas 0.04s (-)*

11.Grosjean 0.017s (-)*

 

*Sutil blocked and brake failure

*Maldonado blocked

*Raikkonen absent

I was curious to see this. I think you made a correct decision not to count those times. Sutil was 1,6 seconds slower then in FP3.


Edited by marcoferrari, 16 November 2013 - 22:19.


#337 Tsarwash

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 22:23

So why are a lot of drivers (especially the lower teams) faster in P3 than they are in quali ? Do they have more tyres or is it that they constantly have to get out of the way of faster cars ? Rosberg was .8 sec quicker in P3 than Quali. 



#338 Anderis

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 23:19

Well, I think Austin is very specific circuit and some strange things tend to happen there when it comes to one-lap pace.



#339 tyker

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 23:29

I was curious to see this. I think you made a correct decision not to count those times. Sutil was 1,6 seconds slower then in FP3.

I was going to include the time because there wasn't a sizeable  difference but the brake failure changed my mind



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#340 tyker

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 23:31

So why are a lot of drivers (especially the lower teams) faster in P3 than they are in quali ? Do they have more tyres or is it that they constantly have to get out of the way of faster cars ? Rosberg was .8 sec quicker in P3 than Quali. 

 

I believe the track was colder and not as grippy and it caught some teams/drivers out 



#341 tyker

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 17:46

No times for Brazil because of rain, final averages (head to head)

 

1. Bianchi 0.6s (13-1)

2. Hulkenberg 0.48s (12-1)

3. Ricciardo 0.45s (13-0)

4. Vettel 0.24s (9-2)

5. Alonso 0.17s (7-5)

6. Pic 0.16s (8-5)

7. Button 0.06s (6-7)

8. Hamilton 0.058s (7-7)

9. Di Resta 0.05s (7-4)

10.Bottas 0.04s (6-6)

11.Grosjean 0.02s (5-6)



#342 tyker

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 14:41

A bit late with the 2014 averages because of all the wet qualifying sessions

 

1. Kobayashi 0.36s

2. Ricciardo 0.33s

3. Bianchi 0.24s

4. Bottas 0.161s

5. Guiterrez 0.155s

6. Alonso 0.1s

7. Grosjean 0.08s

8. Kvyat 0.07s

9. Rosberg 0.06s

10. Button 0.05s

11. Hulkenberg 0.03s



#343 tyker

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 21:02

After Canada (Canada Difference)

 

1. Kobayashi 0.42s (0,542s)

2. Ricciardo 0.24s (-0,041s)

3. Alonso 0.18s (0.4s)

4. Bianchi 0.17s (-0.011s)

5. Gutierrez 0.16s (-)

6. Bottas 0.13s (0.028s)

7. Grosjean 0.08s (-)

8. Hulkenberg 0.07s (0.172s)

9. Rosberg 0.0633s (0.079s)

10.Vergne 0.0627s (0.458s)

11.Button 0.0625s (0.096s)

 


Edited by tyker, 07 June 2014 - 21:47.


#344 Anderis

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 21:23

Wow, really close in most of the pairings.



#345 Zava

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 22:44

tyker, could you tell me which qualies did you take in account at the red bull pairing? I seem to recall that all of the qualis up until this point were either rainy, or had a car/cars stricken with technical gremlins.



#346 tyker

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 00:10

tyker, could you tell me which qualies did you take in account at the red bull pairing? I seem to recall that all of the qualis up until this point were either rainy, or had a car/cars stricken with technical gremlins.

Fastest overall lap in dry qualifying sessions were both drivers competed in



#347 payinkind

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:34

Why exclude wet qualifying? Your sample is heavily biased...

#348 Mauseri

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:47

Why exclude wet qualifying? Your sample is heavily biased...

Wet is not dry. Conditions change, strategies play role, and it messes up the whole averages.

 

It is better to spin off then do a poor lap for that kind of statistic.


Edited by Mauseri, 08 June 2014 - 01:48.


#349 tyker

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 13:12

Why exclude wet qualifying? Your sample is heavily biased...

Wet conditions are never consistent and you can get large gaps between teammates which can make the dry times averages a bit irrelevant, who is quicker in the wet could be for another thread perhaps?

 

If for instance Red Bull based their decision on who to replace Webber with due to who was better in the wet then maybe they would have chosen Vergne?

 

I guess they leant more to the fact that in the dry qualifying Ricciardo was on average 0.45s quicker?



#350 Zava

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 13:21

Fastest overall lap in dry qualifying sessions were both drivers competed in

thank you. I thought you also exclude qualies where mechanical failures hindered a car/cars, as they are notconsistent as well.