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WOEIT No 1B


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#51 Geoff E

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 17:59

As I posted in another thread -

Two quotes from the MAC centenary book "Ton Up"-

Tony Griffiths - " ... Chris Summers in the fearsome supercharged Farley Special which he appeared to sit on rather than in ..."

Tony Marsh
- " ... Chris Summers would be in, or was it on, the front of Dr Farley's supercharged V-twin JAP engined special."

The photo here also shows vestiges of rear bodywork http://forums.autosp...w...t&p=4769583

Edited by Geoff E, 22 May 2011 - 18:01.


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#52 Odseybod

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 14:24

Thought it might be interesting to add the item from our archive that I thought was an earlier incarnation of #16, though now I'm not so sure. Are they by any chance related, as Private Eye to say (maybe still does)?


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#53 Ted Walker

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 15:09

very interesting but different chassis design.

#54 Jean L

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 09:28

1 Ulmen with the Veritas Großmutter is at the Eifelrennen 1952,not the German GP.

#55 uechtel

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 22:27

Are you sure? On all pictures I know only those from the GP weekend show the No. 2 painted on a background circle and with 'round' style. At the EIfelrennen it seems that the number was painted directly on the body, without that circle and also that the upper part of the "2" digit was more 'flattened'.





#56 Doug Nye

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 22:46

Are you sure? On all pictures I know only those from the GP weekend show the No. 2 painted on a background circle and with 'round' style. At the EIfelrennen it seems that the number was painted directly on the body, without that circle and also that the upper part of the "2" digit was more 'flattened'.


I would also doubt the EifelRennen attribution. At the German GP meeting his car wore the same race number '2', but he won there and is apparently receiving plaudits as a winner in our photo. Perhaps more to the point, Fred Taylor who took this photograph did attend the 1952 German GP meeting and did not - as far as I can find from his photo record - attend the earlier EifelRennen.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 26 May 2011 - 09:18.


#57 Dutchy

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 11:41

Thought it might be interesting to add the item from our archive that I thought was an earlier incarnation of #16, though now I'm not so sure. Are they by any chance related, as Private Eye to say (maybe still does)?


Posted Image


That's an Iota or to be more precise Gerry Millington's Milli-Union

#58 Odseybod

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 11:44

That's an Iota or to be more precise Gerry Millington's Milli-Union


Wow, thanks Dutchy. I'll amend the scratchy writing on the back of the print :)

#59 2F-001

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 12:03

I'm a little puzzled by the location of No.4 - as suggested, it looks like Crystal Palace.

I spent a couple of hours in the Park yesterday, hoping to get an "as now" picture for comparison. At the point where the houses are closest to the track - Fisherman's Bend - the buildings are quite different.
Back at North Tower, there is one house in particular that has architectural features matching those in the pic. but not in quite the same config - principally three vertical sections of window between the stone mullions, rather than four, on the face of a angle-ended bay.

The building is rather further from the track than the picture suggests (even though it doesn't appear to be foreshortened by a long lens). It's possible that the building has been very sensitively (and very expensively) remodelled (now apartments) re-using, or even recreating, the stonework to a new configuration - the houses along the road would have been quite imposing in the day and still retain much of their original outward appearance, but this one is particularly smart.

What puzzles me though, is partly the apparent proximity to the track and - in particular - the track would have had to be a good 12-15 feet higher than it is now.

Was there ever a time when the track ran run much closer to the edge of the park - and consequently much higher up the slope? It's fairly steep ground covered in mature trees and shrubbery - and I understood the line of the outer track was constant through its life.

Seems way too much of a coincidence for it not to be CP - but somehow it doesn't'quite' look right. I'm fairly accustomed to dealing with camera and lens effect (spent many a year directing studio photography) but this has me a bit puzzled...

Edited by 2F-001, 26 May 2011 - 12:04.


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#60 rbm

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 19:04

9 - Hill 500 ? built by Richardson Hill and Co of Balham.

#61 Vitesse2

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 20:25

I'm a little puzzled by the location of No.4 - as suggested, it looks like Crystal Palace.

I spent a couple of hours in the Park yesterday, hoping to get an "as now" picture for comparison. At the point where the houses are closest to the track - Fisherman's Bend - the buildings are quite different.
Back at North Tower, there is one house in particular that has architectural features matching those in the pic. but not in quite the same config - principally three vertical sections of window between the stone mullions, rather than four, on the face of a angle-ended bay.

The building is rather further from the track than the picture suggests (even though it doesn't appear to be foreshortened by a long lens). It's possible that the building has been very sensitively (and very expensively) remodelled (now apartments) re-using, or even recreating, the stonework to a new configuration - the houses along the road would have been quite imposing in the day and still retain much of their original outward appearance, but this one is particularly smart.

What puzzles me though, is partly the apparent proximity to the track and - in particular - the track would have had to be a good 12-15 feet higher than it is now.

Was there ever a time when the track ran run much closer to the edge of the park - and consequently much higher up the slope? It's fairly steep ground covered in mature trees and shrubbery - and I understood the line of the outer track was constant through its life.

Seems way too much of a coincidence for it not to be CP - but somehow it doesn't'quite' look right. I'm fairly accustomed to dealing with camera and lens effect (spent many a year directing studio photography) but this has me a bit puzzled...

My first thought was Fisherman's as well. From the angle, could it perhaps be looking towards a now-demolished building where the ambulance station is now? The ambulance station looks very 80s or even 90s: an odd thing to build on a green field site.

#62 Barry Boor

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 22:40

Picture #4 does feel like Crystal Palace to me.

#63 Doug Nye

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 22:46

I am confident that the shot was indeed taken at Crystal Palace on the descent from North Tower Crescent. I remember being surprised to find the adjacent house gardens so close when I walked down through the rhododendrons there during one Whitsun meeting in the 1960s. The HWM is driven either by Austen Nurse in 1953 or by Ted Whiteaway in 1954, but I am not at all confident that I would recognise either gentleman. It is, however, very interesting to hear that the architecture does not match up today. Hmmmm....somewhere I should have the relevant Crystal Palace programmes...

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 26 May 2011 - 22:47.


#64 2F-001

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 02:45

Oh, I'd find it very much harder to believe it wasn't Crystal Palace! So many of the houses on that road are essentially 'as they used to be', but there could have been something else built in the same style further down the hill. There are a few newer bits but they don't seem to be in quite the right spot. I'll take another look around Fisherman's next week - but looking at it from the viewpoint of what might have changed rather than what still exists (or, of course, what I might have missed).

Thanks for your interest; I appreciate this is a rather arcane matter - especially as none of us seem to doubt that it actually is at the Palace!
Sadly, don't think I can make it to the sprint this w/e, despite it only being a short walk away!

(I don't think it's widely appreciated just how close the houses are to Brands Hatch, either.)

In the past couple of years or so, the area of track away from the start/finish straight at CP, which have hitherto remained largely unmolested, have begun to show signs of erasure as the landscaping is maintained and developed; the footbridge bridge over the track (which, I think, appeared with the advent of the National Sports Centre) has gone. The track through The Glade now looks impossibly narrow - but I guess it was ever thus - I don't recall if it was narrowed during subsequent resurfacing, the landscaping is fairly mature just there. It's still an intriguing place though - and a lovely park.

Edited by 2F-001, 27 May 2011 - 02:46.


#65 Odseybod

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 08:30

Don't want to teach Granny to suck eggs, but Google Earth presents quite an interesting bird's eye view that lets you trace out pretty much all of the circuit and relate it to (present) nearby buildings.

Must confess it took me some time at last year's Sprint meeting to work out where I was standing in relation to where the start-finish straight was. The memory grows dim ...


#66 2F-001

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 10:41

I think I've worked out a likely location now from the other side (back near to Fisherman's, where I assumed it was to start with; I'm not sure it's actually visible from the track anymore, though, without crawling around people's property and looking very suspicious! I'll take another look though, to satisfy my own curiosity. I may have made this more complicated than necessary... needed the exercise though.

As TT indicates, above - for anyone who hasn't been there in recent years, the start-finish straight is the most comprehensively disfigured section of the track. In bibliographic terms, it would be a palimpsest.

Edited by 2F-001, 27 May 2011 - 10:44.


#67 Doug Nye

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 14:35

The house I presume it to be backs on to what I knew as The Glade descent and according to the fascinating ruler tool on Google Earth it's only 18 yards from back of house to the edge of the old track surface.

DCN

#68 Dutchy

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 11:13

9 - Hill 500 ? built by Richardson Hill and Co of Balham.


I wondered about that too but I don't think it is.

I still think it's a Martin but I stand to be corrected.

#69 alansart

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 11:26

The house I presume it to be backs on to what I knew as The Glade descent and according to the fascinating ruler tool on Google Earth it's only 18 yards from back of house to the edge of the old track surface.

DCN


This was taken a few years ago.
Posted Image

I went to nearly all of the CP meetings in it's last few years of use, but never realised the houses were so close to the track. Spectators weren't allowed at that part of the circuit.

Edited by alansart, 31 May 2011 - 11:53.


#70 Paul Parker

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 11:38

This was taken a few years ago.
Posted Image


Crystal Palace was a wonderful circuit in a beautiful park setting and it is perhaps fortunate that it was closed in 1972 as any attempt to 'modernise' it would have had catastrophic consequences for its unique character.

I visited many times including the final meeting and the picture reminds me of just how thrilling this was as a venue, indeed only last night I was watching the Italian Job (yet again) and there was the Mini crashing and 'you're only supposed to blow the bloody doors off' sequence.

Happy days.

#71 alansart

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 11:55

Crystal Palace was a wonderful circuit in a beautiful park setting and it is perhaps fortunate that it was closed in 1972 as any attempt to 'modernise' it would have had catastrophic consequences for its unique character.

I visited many times including the final meeting and the picture reminds me of just how thrilling this was as a venue, indeed only last night I was watching the Italian Job (yet again) and there was the Mini crashing and 'you're only supposed to blow the bloody doors off' sequence.

Happy days.


I couldn't agree more. I just wish I could have raced my Formula Ford around there, but sadly I was about 11 years too late :(


#72 HiRich

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 13:34

How about John Brown's Martin-Norton for number 9.

I pretty much agree (and with Dutchy). The swing arm is Martin (single tube rather than Kieft pressing). The crude bodywork is the standard for the early 1953 Martins (such as Dennis Taylor's). If you reckon it looks like John Brown, I'll buy into that. There's a picture of the car in Iota, April 1953 from Castle Combe in April, and the details match, including 'wonky' mirrors and the style of the race number. So this is Crystal Palace, 25th May.

#73 HiRich

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 13:56

That's an Iota or to be more precise Gerry Millington's Milli-Union

And at Eaton Neston to boot. The truck in the background is the original Cooper Cars transporter.