52 replies to this topic

[simonlewisbooks]

I'm trying to identify the photo below which to me looks like T A D Crook's Cooper Bristol F2 car which he ran as a one-and-a-half-seater with cycle wings.



However I think this photo was taken at Staverton speed trials in 1954 or maybe '55 and by then I'm sure Crook had retired to concentrate on running Bristol cars?
Also I seem to recall his Cooper was painted a kind of dark maroon/bronze colour.


From the same event is another mystery photo



This looks like an Alta to me and something about the egg-box grill front-end treatment seems familiar but that's about it!
No visible competition number I'm afraid.


Can anyone identify either car or driver?

[Tim Murray]

Tony Crook was definitely still racing in 1955.

[David McKinney]

If it's Staverton it's more likely to be Jack Walton, who also had a “1½-seater” Cooper-Bristol (or Peter Bolton, who also drove it)

And I agree with Simon's Alta theory - unless it's one of Jim Berry's devices?

[simonlewisbooks]

If it's Staverton it's more likely to be Jack Walton, who also had a “1½-seater” Cooper-Bristol (or Peter Bolton, who also drove it)

And I agree with Simon's Alta theory - unless it's one of Jim Berry's devices?

Thanks David.
So this is most likely RUM 2, the car which was rebodied by Williams & Pritchard in 1955 with a more conventional sportscar coachwork?

[David McKinney]

That's my guess

[Bauble]

Might this be the same car pictured at the May HSCC Meeting in 2009








More pictures at www.picasaweb.googlr.co.uk/rbmapics

PS: Tony Crook always ran his cars in a maroon colour.

Edited by Bauble, 20 May 2011 - 18:08.

[Sharman]

Tony Crook's Cooper Bristol was maroon, he once gave me a lift in his transporter and i had to sit in the car as it was such a tight fit.

[Bauble]

Ex-Tony Crook Cooper-Bristol Spring Start 2009

[RAP]

Its not Staverton 54 or 55 as I have progs and #6 would have been a 500 in both years. Come to think of it #6 (assuming that is indeed the number) is odd. Numbers usually run "up" from the smallest cc to the Unl class and so what we presume to be a Cooper Bristol would be expected to have a higher number than 6 - none of which helps in the slighest !!
RAP

[David McKinney]

Might this be the same car pictured at the May HSCC Meeting in 2009

No
The ex-Walton car has long since been restored to a single-seater, and is BRG with a yellow nose-band (à la Wharton, I suppose)

[fuzzi]

My notes from Autosport for 1954 says that:

At the 23 May 1954 meeting, Jack Walton (my notes say "Welton") won the 1101-1500cc Sports class in his Cooper-MG in 31.8secs from Guy Arnego's Cooper Special and Ivor Bueb in a Cooper both on 32.8.

Could the white car be the Cooper-MG?

F.B. Sowery set btd in his Cooper-JAP V-twin with 28.6.

Edited by fuzzi, 21 May 2011 - 08:24.

[Bauble]

No
The ex-Walton car has long since been restored to a single-seater, and is BRG with a yellow nose-band (à la Wharton, I suppose)

Like this?

[David McKinney]

Yes - very much like that
If your records indicate that the driver in your picture is Stephen Russell, you have the right car. Otherwise probably something created even more recently

And Fuzzi - I'm sure the car's not a Cooper-MG
(...but I was wrong once before )

[fivestar]

I have blown up the photo of the mystery car and I can see nothing there which would indicate it has any Alta basis, but who knows.

[Bauble]

Yes - very much like that
If your records indicate that the driver in your picture is Stephen Russell, you have the right car. Otherwise probably something created even more recently

And Fuzzi - I'm sure the car's not a Cooper-MG
(...but I was wrong once before )

David,
I always assumed that the car Roddy McPherson used to race in historic events was the Wharton car, it certainly looked like it, so is this the same car, or is it a 'replica' of Ken's Cooper?

Like you I would do not believe that the white car is a Cooper-MG, it is not the ex- Cliff Davis or ex-Lionel Leonard version and all of the others were quite different in dimensions to the 'mystery' white car at Staverton.

[David McKinney]

That was always the assumption. The Donington car was also painted up like Wharton's and so, as already mentioned, is the retro-narrowed ex-Walton car

I think the Macpherson car was the ex-Wharton - certainly he does - but I was always suspicious that it derived from a car that went to Australia in blue and white in the 1950s. Doesn't mean it couldn't have changed, of course

I haven't been keeping my Cooper-Bristol records as up-to-date as I used to, but the car Macpherson raced between 1977 and 1999 is now with David White and the ex-Walton, as mentioned, with Steve Russell. The ex-Donington car was with Bob Gilbert ten years ago, but has presumably moved on since

[Bauble]

[quoteI haven't been keeping my Cooper-Bristol records as up-to-date as [/quote]


TUT! TUT!

[Eric Dunsdon]

The Cooper-Bristol picture looks like Alex McMillan in the ex-Alan Brown Mk2 which he raced in 1954. I believe that this car later became known as the Bristol-Barb .

The car in the lower picture has a grille very similar to the 1952 Formula 2 Frazer-Nash which was raced by Ken Wharton, though it isnt Ken in the picture.

[Bauble]

The Cooper-Bristol picture looks like Alex McMillan in the ex-Alan Brown Mk2 which he raced in 1954. I believe that this car later became known as the Bristol-Barb .

The car in the lower picture has a grille very similar to the 1952 Formula 2 Frazer-Nash which was raced by Ken Wharton, though it isnt Ken in the picture.

Only a vague resemblance Eric, I agree about the potato chipper grille, but the strange fairings inside the front wheels, and shiny plates at the front end look very odd, also it has twin rear wheels, so almost certainly a purpose built hill climb, sprint car. It looks quite professional in its appearance, but 1954/55 sprints are not my specialised subject.

definitely not a Cooper Bristol and certainly not Ken Wharton.

I think the Bristol Barb has had quite an airing on a previous thread, so beware, there are a few fanatics out there!

[David McKinney]

The Cooper-Bristol picture looks like Alex McMillan in the ex-Alan Brown Mk2 which he raced in 1954. I believe that this car later became known as the Bristol-Barb

I don't recall ever seeing a picture of McMillan's car after he converted it to sports spec but before it got its Rochdale body. But I confess I was surprised to see Walton's car, if indeed it was his, in such a light colour. You might be onto something there, Eric

The car in the lower picture has a grille very similar to the 1952 Formula 2 Frazer-Nash which was raced by Ken Wharton, though it isnt Ken in the picture.

There were three F2 Frazer Nashes. I agree this one doesn't look like the Wharton car, but the Bill Skelly car (Scotland) was neater than either than the car in this photo or the Wharton FN, and it's unlikely Odlum would have brought his Nash over from Ireland just for a sprint

[Bauble]

Simon,
As a dealer in motor sport literature I am sure you will have a copy of 'Specialist British Sports Cars of the Fifities and Sixties' by Anthony Pritchard (as I know you have Eric).
May I refer you to pages 60/61 where you will find a) A picture of Crook's Cooper Bristol and b) Alex McMillan in his white Cooper Bristol racing at Silverstone in July 1954. The car bears number 6 and the driver is wearing a rainproof that is billowing out behind him. I would bet money, not much, that it is the same meeting that your original picture comes from.

Also 'Motor Racing at Goodwood' contains pictures of Tony Crook in his 'one and half' seater Cooper Bristol.

Hope this helps.

bauble.

Edited by Bauble, 22 May 2011 - 07:20.

[Bauble]

The second photo; There is some speculation that it could be a Frazer-Nash, but a look at Jenk's 1953 Racing Car Review,should convince anyne that it is not a F-N single seater.

[David McKinney]

To paraphrase Post 20, the three F2 Frazer Nashes looked different from each other

[Bauble]

To paraphrase Post 20, the three F2 Frazer Nashes looked different from each other

Not that different.

[Eric Dunsdon]

I don't recall ever seeing a picture of McMillan's car after he converted it to sports spec but before it got its Rochdale body. But I confess I was surprised to see Walton's car, if indeed it was his, in such a light colour. You might be onto something there, Eric

Thanks David. I have pretty clear memories of McMillan's very spectacular drive with that car in the support race at the 1954 British Grand Prix meeting. If you compare the picture with Simon's 1954 Ascari-Marimon 250F snaps the location looks very similar.

[Bauble]

One of mine and I'm sure Eric's most vivid memories of watching motor races is the late start made by Alex McMillan in the 1954 Sports Car race at Silverstone. The circuit had been resurfaced over the winter and racing had shown no major suprises until it rained before the Sports Cars came out, the new surface proved extremly slippery when wet and Copse Corner on the first lap was like ice racing. Cars were sliding all over the road, the drivers caught out by the unexpected condition of the track, somehow they all got through, and we spectators breathed a collective sigh of relief, and silence ruled for just a few moments!! Then from the start area there came a sound of a high powered car roaring down into the corner after starting late - the crowd looked on in horror as the lone car hurtled into the corner intent on making up time. Yes! Alex McMillan, a well known hard charger. As the white Cooper turned in the car went into a mighty slde, and how Alex held it all together is one of life's miracles, but he did. A huge cheer went up as he tore off down to Becketts, more from relief than admiration I suspect.

An event that is etched into my memory banks for ever. It is certainly the most dramatic moment in 60 years of watching motor races.

Edited by Bauble, 22 May 2011 - 11:20.

[Doug Nye]

Pehaps HAR - or RRA - might be considered for ID of second photo? The first shot definitely suggests Jack Walton to me...but first impressions, etc etc.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 22 May 2011 - 11:27.

[David McKinney]

Both those crossed my mind, plus the famous Woden, but I haven't had a chance to check

But I think we're on the right track with Alex McMillan in the ex-Brown Cooper-Bristol

Edited by David McKinney, 22 May 2011 - 14:15.

[Doug Nye]

Ah - I missed the McMillan post. Yes - much more him than the less evidently energetic Walton.

DCN

[Bauble]

In 'The Curragh Motor Races 1947-1954' by Oliver McCrossan there is a picture of Jack Walton in his Cooper Bristol taken in 1953, which shows the car having a white nose cone and somewhat darker bodywork (the pic is B&W).

[Bauble]

Nothing like the HAR Doug, I saw it race many times and do not recall any version similar to the picture, also the F2 Frazer Nash cars had centre lock alloy wheels, the car in the picture has wire wheels, and if we have agreed that it is not the Wharton car it is unlikely that either Dicky Odlum or Bill Skelly would have turned up at the Staverton Sprint, wherever that is.

[fuzzi]

Staverton Airfield is now Gloucester Airport, home to the County Police helicopters and two flying clubs.

[Ted Walker]

I would say it is taken at Staverton and its Jim Berry in his ERA Special..

[Eric Dunsdon]

I would say it is taken at Staverton and its Jim Berry in his ERA Special..

Page 149 of Chris Mason's book 'Uphill Racers' has a snap of Jim Berry's ERA Special which does look very similar to the car in question.

[David McKinney]

See post 3, and also Post 28 (the ERA Special was based on the Woden)

[Ted Walker]

but it was always known as the ERA Special !!!!!!!!!

[Ted Walker]

but it was always known as the ERA Special !!!!!!!!!

[Ted Walker]

But only once !!!!!!!!

[Bauble]

But only once !!!!!!!!

Ted,
Do you mean it was 'once' known as the ERA Special?

Edited by Bauble, 23 May 2011 - 09:25.

[Bauble]

Staverton Airfield is now Gloucester Airport, home to the County Police helicopters and two flying clubs.

I wonder wuzzi he right?

[simonlewisbooks]

Thanks chaps, so to recap -

The Cooper Bristol is Alex McMillan in the soon-to-be-rebodied "Cooper-Barb" at the 1954 British GP support race?
The Staverton photo is Jim Berry's ERA special.

What really threw me with the Cooper photo was the cycle wings. I had it in my head they were banned from sports car internationals in 53...?

Unfortunately I don't currently have a copy of the Pritchard book in stock Bauble. It's very popular and tends to sell as soon as I get one in . Likewise UPHILL RACERS. Sold my only copy of that at Prescott two weeks ago.

It's bizarre, but when I need a book for reference it's always just been sold. You can put money on it happening, even if the darn thing has hitherto been taking root on the shelf for several years!

[Bauble]

Thanks chaps, so to recap -

The Cooper Bristol is Alex McMillan in the soon-to-be-rebodied "Cooper-Barb" at the 1954 British GP support race?
The Staverton photo is Jim Berry's ERA special.

What really threw me with the Cooper photo was the cycle wings. I had it in my head they were banned from sports car internationals in 53...?

Unfortunately I don't currently have a copy of the Pritchard book in stock Bauble. It's very popular and tends to sell as soon as I get one in . Likewise UPHILL RACERS. Sold my only copy of that at Prescott two weeks ago.

It's bizarre, but when I need a book for reference it's always just been sold. You can put money on it happening, even if the darn thing has hitherto been taking root on the shelf for several years!

Simon,
I can assure you that the picture in the book is very convincing, it leaves virtually no room for doubt -so if you want to BUY a copy .............!

[simonlewisbooks]

Simon,
I can assure you that the picture in the book is very convincing, it leaves virtually no room for doubt -so if you want to BUY a copy .............!

I have no doubt that it is, Bauble. Do you have a copy of the book for sale???

Regarding the ERA-Special : I checked the other TNF thread relating to this car and it's owner. Doug Nye recounts the intriguing theory that the chassis was based on the un-used Raymond Mays hillclimb special with chain drive, from 1949-50. A wonderful , graphic description of the special's bizarre handling traits is included....

Does the car still exist I wonder?

[Bauble]

Bauble. Do you have a copy of the book for sale???

Not really Simon, it too good a book to lose, but I'll remember you when I get too old to read it.

Watch for a pm.

Bob

[La Sarthe]

For the second photo, I can't say that it's definitely Staverton but it could be. The reason is that the aircraft hangar in the background is a Bellman type (you can tell by the design of the projecting door supports). This was a late 1930s design for a relatively cheap pre-fabricated hangar and was erected at many RAF airfields and technical training units in this timeframe - several hundred were constructed. Staverton had six, grouped by the main technical site on the north-west side of the airfield.

It was replaced from about 1941 by the T series of hangars, especially the T2 type which was extensively used during the rest of the war. This is the type that you can see in the background of photos of Silverstone and Thruxton for example.

Peter

[Geoff E]

For the second photo, I can't say that it's definitely Staverton but it could be. The reason is that the aircraft hangar in the background is a Bellman type (you can tell by the design of the projecting door supports). This was a late 1930s design for a relatively cheap pre-fabricated hangar and was erected at many RAF airfields and technical training units in this timeframe - several hundred were constructed. Staverton had six, grouped by the main technical site on the north-west side of the airfield.

It was replaced from about 1941 by the T series of hangars, especially the T2 type which was extensively used during the rest of the war. This is the type that you can see in the background of photos of Silverstone and Thruxton for example.

Peter

Next question Peter ... could this have been Staverton as alleged? http://forums.autosp...w...t&p=5043655

[David Birchall]

To confirm it is the Jim Berry ERA special look at page 149 of "Uphill Racers".

[David McKinney]

... as in Post 34 ;)

[David Birchall]

BU***R!!
You have to read every post on this forum don't you?

[La Sarthe]

Next question Peter ... could this have been Staverton as alleged? http://forums.autosp...w...t&p=5043655

Yes it is. The nearest hangar is the one to the right of the photo below. Two give-aways - it's of the lower 17ft clear door height variety with the doors only two panels high whereas the others at Staverton (and many elsewhere) were 25ft tall with three panel doors, and there's a white temporary construction flight hut airside which also matches the aerial photo. The car would be on the perimeter track, just off to the right of this photo and heading to the right.

Anyway, enough airfield anorak stuff, suffice to say that it's Staverton.