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Mazda 787B in 1991 Le Mans - how it was?


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#1 Liborek

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 21:05

We all know that this was last year of good old Group C era. And since I was 1 year old, I don´t recall much of it :lol: Well, my question is simple. According to wikipedia ( yeah I know) there were some weight increases of C1 cars and supposedly, Mazda was allowed to run at much lower weight, something like 830 kg vs. 1000 kg of competitors.

Can anyone answer me what is true and how it was? Thanks

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#2 Tim Murray

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 21:42

This is correct. The minimum weight for the Mazdas was 830 kg, and for the Porsche 962s it was 950 kg. All other cars in the class had to weigh at least 1,000 kg.

#3 Liborek

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 22:08

Thanks!

#4 arttidesco

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 22:57

One interesting race to be privileged to see, there are some inaccuracies in the wiki page the XJR 14 qualified 2nd in the hands of Andy Wallace but no one else drove the car which was withdrawn. The equally gorgeous C291 was driven by Fritz Kreuzpointer in a time that must be one of the slowest in history of 6m 55 .9 secs and did indeed fail to qualify.

The following year there were no Jags or Mercs but the XJR14 was rebranded as a Mazda and fitted with a Judd (?) V10 in place of the V8 Cosworth HB.

#5 sabrejet

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 10:47

One interesting race to be privileged to see, there are some inaccuracies in the wiki page the XJR 14 qualified 2nd in the hands of Andy Wallace but no one else drove the car which was withdrawn. The equally gorgeous C291 was driven by Fritz Kreuzpointer in a time that must be one of the slowest in history of 6m 55 .9 secs and did indeed fail to qualify.

The following year there were no Jags or Mercs but the XJR14 was rebranded as a Mazda and fitted with a Judd (?) V10 in place of the V8 Cosworth HB.


It was a great race that year: the 'atmo' cars started from the front while the 'proper' Group C cars soon overhauled them, though in fairness the Peugeots did look quick while they lasted.

Jaguar actually presented two XJR-14s at scrutineering: one as No.3, marked as 'FABI/ACHESON' and No.4 marked as 'WARWICK/WALLACE'. Wallace practiced in No.4, still marked with Warwick/Brundle's names.

The C291 sounded fantastic while it lasted but IIRC did only one lap (I think the spelling is, Kreutzpointner' (one more 'n') by the way).

I took the shots here at scrutineering. Having blinked when the C291 came past in practice I'm glad I at least got one photo of it.

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#6 cheapracer

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 11:13

We all know that this was last year of good old Group C era. And since I was 1 year old, I don´t recall much of it :lol: Well, my question is simple. According to wikipedia ( yeah I know) there were some weight increases of C1 cars and supposedly, Mazda was allowed to run at much lower weight, something like 830 kg vs. 1000 kg of competitors.

Can anyone answer me what is true and how it was? Thanks


Sounds like an answer was just given to a very surface debate somewhere.

Take a bit more time Liborek and understand/appreciate what it takes to win such an event, many a "best car on paper" has been beaten before and will again.

Go and watch this http://stagevu.com/video/dtqpklzbbyaw and even the Top Gear episode when they run the 12 hour car race as a team.




#7 RCH

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 14:42

Call me cynical but...

I've always had a sneaking suspicion that Tom Walkinshaw, knowing his Jaguar/Silk Cut contract was at an end and knowing that Mazda were beckoning, didn't try too hard to beat the Mazda....

#8 Liborek

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 15:44

Take a bit more time Liborek and understand/appreciate what it takes to win such an event, many a "best car on paper" has been beaten before and will again.

Don´t get me wrong, I´m fully aware of this and it was huge accomplishment for such small team with limited buget as Mazda was.

I just wanted to be sure about regulations of this very race. Mazda determined faults of previous cars and during very short time sorted these very problems and enhanced powerplant greatly. They did everything and win was well deserved.

But there is one annoying thing. I´m lurking around rotary forums and I really enjoying gaining knowledge about wankel engines but I don´t like when people are spreading rumours that rotary engine was banned " because it kicked a** so much " :rolleyes:

#9 DogEarred

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 18:31

Call me cynical but...

I've always had a sneaking suspicion that Tom Walkinshaw, knowing his Jaguar/Silk Cut contract was at an end and knowing that Mazda were beckoning, didn't try too hard to beat the Mazda....


There's never enough cynicism in this business!... We need to start a Cynicism Forum!...

Having watched that race, what surprised me was that the Mazda lasted the 24 hours without it's engine blowing up.
The sound it gave out gave the impression it was straining at the limit.

Nobody has mentioned the winning drivers yet. I remember Johnny Herbert was one?
Easy to look up but no doubt you guys will give us the answer in nanoseconds.


#10 sabrejet

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 19:30

There's never enough cynicism in this business!... We need to start a Cynicism Forum!...

Having watched that race, what surprised me was that the Mazda lasted the 24 hours without it's engine blowing up.
The sound it gave out gave the impression it was straining at the limit.

Nobody has mentioned the winning drivers yet. I remember Johnny Herbert was one?
Easy to look up but no doubt you guys will give us the answer in nanoseconds.


As I recall the Jaguars were hobbled by regulation changes and even in practice they weren't that fast - especially when compared to the turbo cars like the Sauber C11. But that was always the case and the n/a cars usually qualified further back than the turbo cars.

I do recall saying after both practice sessions that the Mazdas were dark horses for a win, though I really hoped that the No.56 Dieudonne-Yorino-Terada car would win since that trio (plus David Kennedy in the No.18 car) had devoted so much effort to the Mazda Gp C programme. But it's worth mentioning that Sauber did have some mechanical problems and really should have won. But racing is full of 'what ifs' and Mazda won it fair and square.

And that noise by the way was a characteristic of all the Mazda rotaries - though I think the 4-rotor 787/787B were maybe a bit louder. DEspite the sound they generally had a reputation for being bullet-proof: you could normally hear a Mazda all the way round the circuit and I recall thinking on the morning of the 1990 race how quiet it was - then it dawned on me that all the Mazdas were out. In fact I think the final car was in fact being repaired in the pits and was back out after breakfast and did finish the race. But that year (1990) was unusually bad for Mazda reliability.

Regarding the 1991 race, the drivers of the winning car were Johnny Herbert, Volker Weidler and Bertrand Gachot.

#11 Jesper O. Hansen

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 20:32

Call me cynical but...

I've always had a sneaking suspicion that Tom Walkinshaw, knowing his Jaguar/Silk Cut contract was at an end and knowing that Mazda were beckoning, didn't try too hard to beat the Mazda....


I seem to remember that Tom Walkinshaw, having run the Mazda programme a decade earlier, was among the first to congratulate the Hughes du Chaunac run Mazda effort. Jacky Ickx was part of the management around this time too, but don't remember if he was around for 1991?

Jesper

#12 Giraffe

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 22:25

The Le Mans winning Mazda will be driven at this year's Goodwood Festival of Speed by Mike Wilds.


#13 sabrejet

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 11:37

The Le Mans winning Mazda will be driven at this year's Goodwood Festival of Speed by Mike Wilds.


It'll be good to see it again. I recall it was at the (1999?) FoS and I had a good chat to Nigel Stroud about it at the time.