Jump to content


Photo

Red Flag clarification


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#1 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 9,758 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 29 May 2011 - 14:19

I thought the race was over if it was red flagged after 75% of it was completed.
I also thought no tyre changes were allowed, just as part swapping, such as fitting new wings.

I was wrong and surprised at both, and I guess I'm not the only one.

Can the rulebook worms clarify this for all of us? It would also help keep the other threads neat.

Advertisement

#2 tarmac

tarmac
  • Member

  • 1,155 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 29 May 2011 - 14:21

FIA does not know what they are doing

#3 Sevach

Sevach
  • Member

  • 966 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 29 May 2011 - 14:21

I thought the race was over if it was red flagged after 75% of it was completed.
I also thought no tyre changes were allowed, just as part swapping, such as fitting new wings.

I was wrong and surprised at both, and I guess I'm not the only one.

Can the rulebook worms clarify this for all of us? It would also help keep the other threads neat.


I didn't understand any of it either...

I thought it was parc ferme rules.

#4 Don_Humpador

Don_Humpador
  • Member

  • 2,223 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 29 May 2011 - 14:21

The fact that they could change tyres completely killed this race.

#5 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 9,758 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 29 May 2011 - 14:22

Say that again...

#6 Kimiraikkonen

Kimiraikkonen
  • Member

  • 2,238 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 29 May 2011 - 14:29

... No comment... Vettel is wdc in 2011 sure
FIA = UEFA Why stole my dreams?

#7 ClubmanGT

ClubmanGT
  • Member

  • 1,201 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 29 May 2011 - 14:30

The fact that they could change tyres completely killed this race.


If you're going to let people change tyres, at least make them use the same compound. What a joke.

#8 puxanando

puxanando
  • Member

  • 3,538 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 29 May 2011 - 14:30

The fact that they could change tyres completely killed this race.

How are the rules with this??

#9 jee

jee
  • Member

  • 711 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 29 May 2011 - 14:32

I thought the race was over if it was red flagged after 75% of it was completed.


Full points are awarded if 75% of the race distance are completed and the race cannot be restarted.

This does not mean that the race will not be restartet after 75% though.

#10 HAM

HAM
  • Member

  • 531 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 29 May 2011 - 14:33

They can then better waved the finish flag if they are allowed new tyres. The only exception should be tyres exchange in rain, this sucks so much. Vettel win give away! Thanks FIA again for destroying a race.

#11 blackonyx4

blackonyx4
  • Member

  • 1,284 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 29 May 2011 - 14:35

There`s nothing strange with red flag.

They are allowed to dismantle whole cars and put any new parts they want.
They are allowed to put new tyres on.

Lapped cars are still there among front runners although you got completely new race.


There`s nothing illogical about that. That`s FIA.

#12 D A

D A
  • Member

  • 886 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 29 May 2011 - 14:36

I guess the two hour limit doesn't apply anymore?

#13 F1ultimate

F1ultimate
  • Member

  • 2,859 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 29 May 2011 - 14:41

The fact that they could change tyres completely killed this race.


Yeah. They might as well have ended the race themselves.

#14 Jazza

Jazza
  • Member

  • 994 posts
  • Joined: November 99

Posted 29 May 2011 - 14:45

I guess the two hour limit doesn't apply anymore?


Only under green and yellow. Clock stops under red.


#15 KnucklesAgain

KnucklesAgain
  • Member

  • 4,653 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 29 May 2011 - 15:32

I didn't understand any of it either...

I thought it was parc ferme rules.


34.1 Each car will be deemed to be in parc ferme from the time at which it leaves the pit lane for the first time during qualifying practice until the start of the race.


#16 Bleu

Bleu
  • Member

  • 721 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 29 May 2011 - 15:49

Well, this time we were not in the middle of the pit stop window. If the race was stopped at the point where SC was for Massa's accident couple of laps after SC was deployed (I don't say there was anything that the race should have been stopped, but just an example) it would have been very unfair towards the ones who reacted to the safety car by pitting.

I think right rule should be: tyre changing (and other repairs) allowed, but everyone who does so will go to the back of the pack. With the exception being made if the tyre change is related to weather conditions - slicks may be swapped for wets.



#17 Dunder

Dunder
  • Member

  • 6,784 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 29 May 2011 - 15:53

Everything today was in line with the rules as stated.

Changes can be made on the grid (whether that is fair is a different matter).

Likewise the 75% rule only refers to when full points are awarded. Race Control decide whether the race can be restarted depending on the conditions whether 10% of the race has passed or if there is only one lap to go.

#18 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 9,758 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 29 May 2011 - 15:58

The way it was today, they basically had a 68 lap qualifying session and then ran a 7 lap race.

#19 sadler

sadler
  • Member

  • 67 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 29 May 2011 - 15:59

You have to allow tyre changes because you may need to swap from dry tyres to wet tyres (or vise versa) in the event of extreme weather causing a red flag. Maybe they need to add a clause about stopping changes to dry tyres.

Also just because you have done 75% it means the race is over. In previous cases their have been reasons like Malaysia 2009 (daylight) or Brazil 2003 (Track damage) why they couldnt re start

Advertisement

#20 Absulute

Absulute
  • Member

  • 867 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 29 May 2011 - 16:18

FIA does not know what they are doing



Very true. Time for a breakaway series.

#21 Touti

Touti
  • Member

  • 341 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 29 May 2011 - 16:59

Only under green and yellow. Clock stops under red.


Actually, technically speaking it doesn't.

Sporting Regulation.

41.4 Whilst the race is suspended :
- neither the race nor the timekeeping system will stop, however, in accordance with Article 5.3 the
length of the race suspension will be added to the maximum two hour period ;

#22 D.M.N.

D.M.N.
  • RC Forum Host

  • 7,142 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 29 May 2011 - 16:59

... No comment... Vettel is wdc in 2011 sure
FIA = UEFA Why stole my dreams?

How exactly? Even if the race didn't restart, the result would have been the same. Strange comment.

#23 Kimiraikkonen

Kimiraikkonen
  • Member

  • 2,238 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 29 May 2011 - 17:03

Only under green and yellow. Clock stops under red.


i didnĀ“t know this after 20 years in f1 :wave:

#24 sadler

sadler
  • Member

  • 67 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 29 May 2011 - 17:04

I guess the two hour limit doesn't apply anymore?

Any suspension period is added to the 2 hour limit. So basically its 2 hours of 'racing' even though the actual timekeeping doesn't stop hence the race winners time being 2 hours and 6 minutes..

#25 Otaku

Otaku
  • Member

  • 463 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 29 May 2011 - 18:14

There`s nothing illogical about that. That`s FIA.


There's a serious contradiction in that statement :lol:

#26 D.M.N.

D.M.N.
  • RC Forum Host

  • 7,142 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 30 May 2011 - 08:45

Definitely agree with Webber:

AussieGrit
Did 2 F1 races on Sunday,1 long one 1 short one. In the short race you can change wings,tyres,engine,oops where's the 1000 page rulebook?!
34 minutes ago via web

Needs to be clarified, and hopefully the policy of changing tyres is stopped. The only exception I would give is if a tyre is clearly (and can be proven to be) punctured or something.

#27 scheivlak

scheivlak
  • Member

  • 11,166 posts
  • Joined: August 01

Posted 30 May 2011 - 08:49

FIA does not know what they are doing

FIA knows its rulebook and acts according to it.

#28 sharo

sharo
  • Member

  • 1,768 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 30 May 2011 - 08:59

FIA knows its rulebook and acts according to it.

Exactly. And it is covered under "race suspension" part of the rules.

#29 baddog

baddog
  • Member

  • 23,256 posts
  • Joined: June 99

Posted 30 May 2011 - 09:04

The rule ALLOWS race control to declare the race over after that percentage, not requires it.

#30 alecc

alecc
  • Member

  • 2,191 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 30 May 2011 - 09:29

A see now pretty much room for "doing a PiquetJr.-Briatore strategy move" :lol:

#31 kismet

kismet
  • Member

  • 6,979 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 30 May 2011 - 09:30

Not sure I understand why it's seemingly OK that the entire rest of the car undergoes thorough repairs, changes and what not but "OMFG!!1i!1 Tyre changes are teh evil!"

#32 ForeverF1

ForeverF1
  • RC Forum Host

  • 6,412 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 30 May 2011 - 09:40

Not sure I understand why it's seemingly OK that the entire rest of the car undergoes thorough repairs, changes and what not but "OMFG!!1i!1 Tyre changes are teh evil!"


Pirelli pitch in with answers to that.

#33 puxanando

puxanando
  • Member

  • 3,538 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 30 May 2011 - 09:51

I think tyre change under red flag only should be allowed, when clima is changing under the red flag, because noone can require to drive with intermidiates/softs in rain or reverse. But what tey did yesterday falsified the result of the race.

#34 DarthWillie

DarthWillie
  • Member

  • 1,672 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 30 May 2011 - 17:43

What surprised me was the start behind the SC, I thought they would do a standing start.

#35 Ali_G

Ali_G
  • Member

  • 18,014 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 30 May 2011 - 18:36

Just be happy that the aggregate time races of old are gone. That was truly a mess.