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Canadian GP Preview - Roll on Ciruit de Gilles Villeneuve!


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#1 race addicted

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 17:34

...so, will the grid be closer in Canada? It should obviously just because the track is short, but will McLaren and Ferrari be able to once again challenge Red Bull Racing convincingly? Is there a realistic chance of one of them being able to qualify on pole?

Looking at the speed traps this year, Red Bull has generally been some way down the list and around 8-10km/h off the fastest cars. Towards the top of the speed trap listings you will always find Sauber and Force India, and Mercedes GP and Lotus Renault has also been up there. So perhaps these teams will do slightly better than usual? I don't know what to expect from Mercedes, their car is an enigma, but I'm sure Sauber and Renault will collect good points.

Hamilton is always strong here and I wouldn't be surprised if he once again could snatch pole position. Last year it was from Webber, this year it's likely he'll have to fight Vettel and Alonso.

Has anyone sheduled serious updates to their cars?
...any reports about the asphalt? How was the winther?

Edited by race addicted, 29 May 2011 - 17:56.


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#2 undersquare

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 18:05

Last year Red Bull lost with their tyre management, they look a lot better at that this year. So it could be very close.

We really need several cars to finish in front of Sebi though.

#3 Disgrace

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 18:07

Vettel will win, but it will be another exciting race, which really is the saving grace this season. If we were on Bridgestones, the season would be a write-off in terms of overall excitement.

#4 ferrarijon123

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 18:41

...so, will the grid be closer in Canada? It should obviously just because the track is short, but will McLaren and Ferrari be able to once again challenge Red Bull Racing convincingly? Is there a realistic chance of one of them being able to qualify on pole?

Looking at the speed traps this year, Red Bull has generally been some way down the list and around 8-10km/h off the fastest cars. Towards the top of the speed trap listings you will always find Sauber and Force India, and Mercedes GP and Lotus Renault has also been up there. So perhaps these teams will do slightly better than usual? I don't know what to expect from Mercedes, their car is an enigma, but I'm sure Sauber and Renault will collect good points.

Hamilton is always strong here and I wouldn't be surprised if he once again could snatch pole position. Last year it was from Webber, this year it's likely he'll have to fight Vettel and Alonso.

Has anyone sheduled serious updates to their cars?
...any reports about the asphalt? How was the winther?

Ferrari hope to have a ''completely new car'' for canada.

#5 William Hunt

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 18:42

Montréal is always the most exciting race of the year, this year will be no different

#6 cheesy poofs

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 20:02

...any reports about the asphalt? How was the winther?


Tarmac is in excellent shape. No changes to the track surface AFAIK.
You don't want to know how winter was :p



#7 911

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 20:05

Montréal is always the most exciting race of the year, this year will be no different


I agree. Like Monaco, sometimes there can be surprises here.

#8 race addicted

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 20:09

Tarmac is in excellent shape. No changes to the track surface AFAIK.
You don't want to know how winter was :p


Good to know!
(But, I can take it I think, as I'm from Norway, Oslo, and this winther we had a period of over two months where it never was warmer than -12 degrees celsius, and almost one metre of snow.)

#9 SCUDmissile

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 20:25

The Reds Plan what looks to be a BIG aero update.

#10 Andrew Hope

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 20:26

Did I hear Brundle right today? Two DRS zones for Montreal?

#11 BigWicks

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 20:27

yes, two in valencia as well...

#12 Red17

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 20:49

Did I hear Brundle right today? Two DRS zones for Montreal?

More than confirmed.

There was a thread about this a few days ago where I asked if by Monza they would have free DRS. Aparently a lot of people are in favour of this

#13 alfa1

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 22:52

Looking at the speed traps this year, Red Bull has generally been some way down the list and around 8-10km/h off the fastest cars.



With two DRS zones, this might very well lose them the race.




#14 Hole

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 22:56

Montréal is always the most exciting race of the year, this year will be no different


Canada is nice and should never be put out of the calendar but I disagree, I'd choose Belgium GP at anytime.


Anyway, know it's technically offtopic, but the thing here is what's gonna happen in Valencia that is supposedly a borefest, I'm very eager to see what happens. Canada will be fine just like everyyear. :cool:

Edited by AdamKOR, 29 May 2011 - 22:56.


#15 BigCHrome

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 01:37

The Reds Plan what looks to be a BIG aero update.


Didn't they just have a pretty big update (new front wing and new rear bodywork) in Monaco? I mean, what else is there to change? Rear wing is the only "big" part left.

I remember Button saying that it would take them about 7-8 races to make up the 30 points of downforce they are missing compared to Red Bull. Ferrari must be at least 38-40 points behind them then.

Personally if I had to bet it would be for Red Bull even at this track, they are the only team that seems to know what they are doing at all times this year. With Ferrari and especially McLaren, a shot to the foot is always a large possibility.

Edited by BigCHrome, 30 May 2011 - 01:38.


#16 Seanspeed

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 02:04

Didn't they just have a pretty big update (new front wing and new rear bodywork) in Monaco? I mean, what else is there to change? Rear wing is the only "big" part left.

I remember Button saying that it would take them about 7-8 races to make up the 30 points of downforce they are missing compared to Red Bull. Ferrari must be at least 38-40 points behind them then.

Personally if I had to bet it would be for Red Bull even at this track, they are the only team that seems to know what they are doing at all times this year. With Ferrari and especially McLaren, a shot to the foot is always a large possibility.

You are FOREVER trying to downplay anything Ferrari does.

But yea, I suppose that because a team has changed a front wing(or whatever bodywork), it means that there's absolutely no room for more improvement in that area. How long have you been watching F1? :well:

I dont expect miracles, but I guarantee that teams like Red Bull and Mclaren certainly haven't written Ferrari off like you are. They are much the wiser.

#17 ashnathan

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 02:12

Red Bull's quali advantage with the DRS won't be as significant here the only corner I think they will have an advantage with it is the exit of turn 6, that being said quali should (should) be closer. Ferrari's big update I think will give them a step forward but I dunno if you'll see true potential cos if it is that different they will need alot of set up time. We saw last year with McLaren's (B spec) car in Germany it didn't help them much. I don't think Ferrari will suddenly be on for leading pace but I won't say they wont be contending for the win cos this track is very different!

Lewis for the win, he owns this place. Hopefully Seb has a rough start or DNF's to help the championship situation. Mercs will be quick, Renault will surprise a few here.

#18 BigCHrome

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 02:30

You are FOREVER trying to downplay anything Ferrari does.

But yea, I suppose that because a team has changed a front wing(or whatever bodywork), it means that there's absolutely no room for more improvement in that area. How long have you been watching F1? :well:

I dont expect miracles, but I guarantee that teams like Red Bull and Mclaren certainly haven't written Ferrari off like you are. They are much the wiser.


I'm just trying to make sense of it. Like I said, they just introduced a brand new front wing, why bother with it if theres something THAT much better for next race? The only thing I've written them off for is the WCC, which I don't think anyone could argue with. Again they can obviously make a lot of improvement but 30+ points of downforce is a serious deficit.

#19 seahawk

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 05:38

Canda will be dominated by McLaren. The car has been the fastest during the race for 2 races in a row. Lewis will be strong again and I think he will easily win this one. I think Vettel will not start from pole, will have to fight for positionsand will crash out while trying to overtake Alonso.

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#20 teejay

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 05:47

Lewis to lap the field, then to get on the podium and perform a gangsta rap about the haters.



#21 SCUDmissile

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 08:32

well, i think that that package may have been just for monaco.

apart from the packaging and the hole. who knows what they have in store? i believe it may just be what they need.

and tbh, the car is fast enough to fight for wins even without new parts, because of the tyres.

EDIT: and last year, Lewis didnt dominate. if it werent for backmarker issues for Alonso, he may have won the race.

it was a good won for lewis, but he most certainly did not dominate.

Edited by SCUDmissile, 30 May 2011 - 08:33.


#22 ashnathan

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 09:13

well, i think that that package may have been just for monaco.

apart from the packaging and the hole. who knows what they have in store? i believe it may just be what they need.

and tbh, the car is fast enough to fight for wins even without new parts, because of the tyres.

EDIT: and last year, Lewis didnt dominate. if it werent for backmarker issues for Alonso, he may have won the race.

it was a good won for lewis, but he most certainly did not dominate.

Lewis owns Canada, had he not crashed into Kimi in 08 he probably would have gone onto win that race. Meaning, every race since his appearance to the sport he would have won. Reminds me of the Massa/Turkey thing. Lewis just has a groove at this track.

#23 AlexS

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 09:25

Ferrari will be the faster car in race there. So unless they make more strategy mistakes -big probability- they will have great chance of a win.

#24 H2H

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 09:35


In Monaco it was pretty much impossible to say which of the big three had the faster race pace, the pace seems to come with the different tyre sweet spots.

Canada is different, but I recon that McLaren will be a very strong competitor to Red Bull and might have after Spain at least with one tyre type the arguably better race pace. Ferrari is a bit of an unkown right now.



#25 Hulkster

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 09:43

McLaren to look promising in practice, Q1 and Q2.

Vettel to take pole.

Hamilton to look to have more pace than Vettel during the race, but a combination of circumstances, including a bad pit stop, meaning he can never get quite into position to use it.

Vettel to take win and extend lead.

Edited by Hulkster, 30 May 2011 - 09:52.


#26 SCUDmissile

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 09:46

Lewis owns Canada, had he not crashed into Kimi in 08 he probably would have gone onto win that race. Meaning, every race since his appearance to the sport he would have won. Reminds me of the Massa/Turkey thing. Lewis just has a groove at this track.

i think Kimi and Kubica (the eventual winner) were ahead of hamilton when waiting for the lights, so imo Kimi may have won that race if everything went okay.
anyways thats for another thread.

Although i do agree Lewis is a canada specialist.

Edited by SCUDmissile, 30 May 2011 - 09:47.


#27 Raziel

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 12:34

Lewis in Canada:

Pole position in every Canadian grand prix he participated. [2007, 2008, 2010] 100%
Race winner in 2 of 3 races so far [2007, 2010] 66%

There is no doubt that he's favourite but everything can happen in the race, starting with bad strategy, bad pitstops, mechanical failure, tyre punctures etc..though this is his best shot at pole position.




#28 halbvoll

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 16:07

I remember Button saying that it would take them about 7-8 races to make up the 30 points of downforce they are missing compared to Red Bull. Ferrari must be at least 38-40 points behind them then.


Since when is a force expressed in points?

#29 Sakae

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 16:19

Lewis in Canada:

Pole position in every Canadian grand prix he participated. [2007, 2008, 2010] 100%
Race winner in 2 of 3 races so far [2007, 2010] 66%

There is no doubt that he's favourite but everything can happen in the race, starting with bad strategy, bad pitstops, mechanical failure, tyre punctures, Vettel can happend, etc..though this is his best shot at pole position.


I agree - the Canadian track suits McLaren vehicle best (so it seems).

#30 engel

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 16:24

Since when is a force expressed in points?


since people prefer to talk in integers instead of saying our SCl increased by 0.05
1 point of df is roughly equivalent to 3kg @ 250km/h

#31 robefc

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 16:27

Lewis to lap the field, then to get on the podium and perform a gangsta rap about the haters.


:lol:

God I can't wait for this race, I need to last weekend behind me, please a straight forward weekend for lewis...

#32 Massa

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 16:28

Stop and go track. Track who require top speed and good traction. Once again soft and Super soft.

A good track for Ferrari, Alonso will be on the podium.

#33 SCUDmissile

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 16:28

i would love for my team to just come out of nowhere, much like McLaren did in Australia, and get that truck to pole and win, and be as fast as the redbull.

#34 RenArto

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 16:30

Hope to see Hamilton leading home a McLaren 1 - 2 with Alonso third. Vettel DNF for the sake of the championship.

#35 halbvoll

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 17:10

since people prefer to talk in integers instead of saying our SCl increased by 0.05
1 point of df is roughly equivalent to 3kg @ 250km/h


Thanks, I figured it was something like that. I was just amazed at how uncritical people adopt 'Lewis talk'.

#36 SK99

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 17:14

I think this race is gonna be a war between Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel.

Wouldn't be surprised the way the season is going that Alonso and Hamilton take themselves out squabbling with the desperation to get a win and get back in the title hunt, thus leaving Vettel to take 'another lucky win'...

#37 PNSD

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 17:30

Since when is a force expressed in points?


The same reason engineer's use coefficients. Simply, non dimensional analysis.

#38 Dunder

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 01:48

McLaren will go into the race as favourites.

The Red Bull has tremendous downforce but, as was the case last year, looks to be a more draggy car than the McLaren. The Mercedes engine also has a little bit more at the top end.
In low downforce configuration, I would expect McLaren to have the edge.

Ferrari are promising big upgrades too.

Tyres are going to be very interesting. Can anyone put forward any logical reason why degradation won't be even worse than last year?
5-stoppers all round?

#39 Dunder

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 01:51

Since when is a force expressed in points?


A change in the lift coefficient from say 4.00 to 4.30 would be an increase of 30 'points'.
This is roughly in line with the figures Engel gave above.

Edited by Dunder, 31 May 2011 - 01:53.


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#40 ViMaMo

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 07:33

Who would fare better Renault or Mercedes? Both seem to be on a slide.

Edited by ViMaMo, 31 May 2011 - 07:34.


#41 teejay

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 07:38

Merc 5 and 7 at Monaco doesnt seem to be a slide.

Spain was just one of those freak races with 2 guys who went nuts.

#42 ViMaMo

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 07:50

Read it on the Renault thread, their cars seem adversly affected by the bumps. So Canada should be better for them? They have good top speed.

#43 ashnathan

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 09:19

i think Kimi and Kubica (the eventual winner) were ahead of hamilton when waiting for the lights, so imo Kimi may have won that race if everything went okay.
anyways thats for another thread.

Although i do agree Lewis is a canada specialist.

I disagree, Lewis' pace over the weekend was greater, even losing the lead (his tyres were fried) he still would have had the pace and top speed to pass but opinion is mine annnnd we'll never know so its pointless

#44 rodfarva

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 12:09

Can anyone put forward any logical reason why degradation won't be even worse than last year?
5-stoppers all round?


1. Pirellis are not Bridgestones
2. Top runners last year stopped TWICE despite a green track (shower overnight)
3. Pirelli know more than you do about tyre wear
4. Wear rates were low in Australia and Monaco
5. Le Circuit has few high speed corners, if any
6. Le Circuit is not known to be hard on tyres

Two stops.

Edited by rodfarva, 31 May 2011 - 12:10.


#45 sv401

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 12:21

Indeed, while the Bridgestone tyres were generally quite durable, they were prone to graining on smooth, slippery street surfaces, and/or on green track. There were similar issues at Melbourne and Monaco in 2009, Pirelli was already fine at both of these. Last year, a typical race in Canada by a front runner was 7 laps on options, then 20, 43 laps on primes, and most drivers posted their fastest lap at the end of the final, longest stint. Basically, as soon as the track rubbered in, the tyres lasted as usual. With the Pirelli tyres, the main problem is not graining, they simply wear off (producing a lot of marbles), and are the worst on abrasive surfaces (like most of the real, permanent race tracks) and high speed corners.

Edited by sv401, 31 May 2011 - 12:24.


#46 PoLLiN46

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 15:21

I think Montreal will be the most exiciting race in this year.

Two DRS zones, how many overtakes would see?

#47 toxicfusion

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 16:50

1. Pirellis are not Bridgestones
2. Top runners last year stopped TWICE despite a green track (shower overnight)
3. Pirelli know more than you do about tyre wear
4. Wear rates were low in Australia and Monaco
5. Le Circuit has few high speed corners, if any
6. Le Circuit is not known to be hard on tyres

Two stops.


One problem with that is Monaco has a relatively smooth surface, the circuit in Canada is known for being abrasive.

I guess we'll all find out in a couple of weeks.;)

EDIT: Pirelli don't really know that much on circuits they haven't raced at, they've been surprised at the degradation and have been over and under estimating how long tyres would last.

Edited by toxicfusion, 31 May 2011 - 16:53.


#48 Dunder

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 17:12

1. Pirellis are not Bridgestones
Indeed but that argument works both ways.
2. Top runners last year stopped TWICE despite a green track (shower overnight)
Indeed, once the circuit was properly rubbered in degradation rates were much better. OTOH the Pirellis do not lay down their rubber in the same way.
3. Pirelli know more than you do about tyre wear
Of course they do but that was also true at circuits earlier this year where they underestimated wear rates.
4. Wear rates were low in Australia and Monaco
Indeed.
5. Le Circuit has few high speed corners, if any
True but in China it was the big braking zones where marbling/chunking was most evident.
6. Le Circuit is not known to be hard on tyres.
The track went substantial resurfacing between the 2008 and 2010 races, on the evidence of last year, the degree of abrasiveness has increased substantially.


Fwiw, I would tend to agree with you and think it will be a two or three stop race. Just playing devil's advocate.


#49 Mc_Silver

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 17:34

This is the track which suits McLaren and espcially Lewis Hamilton. After such a difficult weekend in Monaco, he will be very determined to bounce back strongly in Canada. I think he will blow away the field.

#50 Reverend

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 17:36

This is the track which suits McLaren and espcially Lewis Hamilton. After such a difficult weekend in Monaco, he will be very determined to bounce back strongly in Canada. I think he will blow away the field.



Amen! :smoking: