24 replies to this topic

[john medley]

Claude Vivian Holbrook was Managing Director of Triumph by the late 1930s, having first worked there in 1919. He rallied a Triumph or two, and managed Triumphs in rallies. Was he brother to Norman Douglas Holbrook VC, and was Norman also involved with Triumph ( or other) motor sport?

[David McKinney]

The only Holbrook racing name on my radar from that period was Sidney V Holbrook, a works Austin 7 driver around 1929. The 'V' suggests the possibility of a connection with the Triumph man

Perhaps a search of the Motorsport digital archive would produce more on other Holbrooks

[johnny yuma]

Ah John I suspect you are attempting to link Holbrook NSW,(renamed after N.D. Holbrook ,V.C. ,from "Germanton" during WW1) , with Motor sport after a drive back from Winton ? Had a google on it, as their birth years are 1886 and 1888 it's possible ,but got no further trying to link them or find any octane in N.D.'s blood.

[john medley]

Johnny Yuma
I am doing just that. Last night I finished reading the newly released Joan Richmond book, in which she mentions Colonel Holbrook both competing in one or more Triumphs and managing her Triumphs in rallies mid 1930s. She also says that the colonel was on at least one European rally accompanied by his brother -- the one with the VC. Further research revealed there were " six Fighting Holbrook(brothers) " in WW1, that Norman Douglas Holbrook VC(7/7/1888--3/7/76) married his first wife Viva 1919( who died 1952), the same year Claude Vivian Holbrook (1886-- 1979)began work with Triumph becoming Managing Director 1933. Triumph historical stuff links Claude with Donald Healey who famously worked then at Triumph and with journalist Tommy Wisdom whose wife Elsie "Bill" Wisdom partnered Joan Richmond in various events including their 1932 1000 Mile Race win at Brooklands. Joan Richmond's mention of CV Holbrook's brother Norman Douglas Holbrook VC was news to me --- I knew of NDH but not CVH.
The town of Holbrook ( " the submarine town" )is small, will decline after the Hume Highway bypass goes through in 2012, and could well benefit from the connection I think I may be seeing. There is a "planes, trains, and automobiles" annual festival in Holbrook, to which this info could add
A worthwhile search, I thought
Any more info folks? I thought some intense 1930s Triumph person could come up with something.

David
Thanks for the suggestion. How do I do that?

And JY .... I thought the night(s) of remarkable coincidences at Winton provided good entertainment and good fun . Nice we met at long last

Edited by john medley, 31 May 2011 - 06:34.

[johnny yuma]

Yes Joan Richmond's book (which I saw in the bookshop at Winton and almost bought) really answers your question that Colonel Holbrook was indeed older brother to Commander Holbrook VC.
The Commander was born in Hampshire,the Colonel was buried in West Sussex...another site had the 1934 Alpine Rally with 3 Triumphs entered by Colonel Holbrook,one of which he drove.Donald Healey seemed to drive another Triumph altogether in the same rally.
Yes it was a good social occasion at the Pinsent Hotel.I talked to the Holden grey-motor builder from your mob,he backed my proposition there is no such animal as a "Canadian Block". These are questions of rising importance as the beers disappear !

Gunning,which was on its last legs ten years ago following bypass,is now in revival.A new Butcher shop just opened in April,and several caffs have good coffee and food

Edited by johnny yuma, 31 May 2011 - 06:55.

[David McKinney]

David
Thanks for the suggestion. How do I do that?

First, you buy the DVD-ROM...

I can have a look for you at some point, but it won't be for a day or two. I first need an answer from someone about UK book distribution

[AbingdonST]

I was reading this thread and although not connected, I thought it a happy accidental coincidence that a lot of the Triumph 'Comp' cars bore the factory number plates **** VC, not intentional but still a connection to Commander Holbrook VC?

[vintagetriumph]

'I thought some intense 1930s Triumph person could come up with something.'

- That'll be me then.......

Langworth & Robson's History of Triumph Cars contributes much information about Claude Holbrook, who presided over the sale of the Triumph Motorcycle division to Jack Sangster. (But I had not realised that his brother was also involved in with Triumphs - I will have to read the Joan Richmond book, of which the Pre-1940 Triumph Motor Club has a copy).

There is just one of the works rally cars surviving - KV 6906 (Joan's was KV 6905) - and this will be on display at the Club's 50th Anniversary Rally at Ragley Hall near Alcester on 19 June. I will be there, as I am organising it, and would be pleased to meet any TNF-ers! Graham Robson will be awarding the concours prizes.

[john medley]

Thanks all( and , David, do you need more from me?)

NDH's involvement with Triumph rests only on a brief Joan Richmond mention. More needed!

[David McKinney]

I'll phone you in the morning (early evening your time)

[john medley]

Bump

[David McKinney]

A search of the 1924-49 MotorSport digital archive for 'Holbrook' brings up only two references, both to the Austin 7 driver S V

[Vitesse2]

Actually, David, there are more - including some to CV - but they don't add to what John already knows. I'm guessing you searched from the front screen? If so, that only searches to the end of 1929: you then need to go to search by date, click on any 1930s year and then do a further keyword search by archive. Same procedure for the 1940s.

[Geoff E]

The brothers HOLBROOK were sons of a newspaper proprietor from Somerset, the latter shown here in the 1881 census (before the birth of the brothers) http://tinyurl.com/5ve2oke

Their HOLBROOK grandfather (Richard) had previously owned the paper.

Arthur (father of the brothers) was MP for Basingstoke for most of 1920-29 and died in 1946 aged 96.

Edited by Geoff E, 02 June 2011 - 20:39.

[Vitesse2]

Holbrooks of Portsmouth is still in business:

http://www.holbrooks.com/

According to their history the town of Holbrook was indeed named after Norman Holbrook VC.

[Vitesse2]

Their HOLBROOK grandfather (Richard) had previously owned the paper.

Richard Holbrook died on February 18th 1907:

[Ray Bell]

That newspaper item is interesting, Speedy...

If for no other reason than it sounds like there was a saucy article.

[GMACKIE]

John, if want some interesting history re. Holbrook, maybe you should speak to Wendy Muddell, at the Australian Motorlife Museum [near Dapto].

[john medley]

Thanks all.

One item above says that ND Holbrook was chairman of Holbrooks of Portsmouth, probably post WW1 therefore probably in the 1930s

I have put the question to the curator of the Holbrook "Submarine Museum" " what was ND Holbrook's occupation in the 1930s" -- in an attempt to identify any Triumph connection from the other end as it were.

The specific reference to the Holbrook brothers from Joan Richmond is to the 1933 and 1934 Alpine Trials. Anyone ?

[john medley]

Hi Greg
I will be in your territory later today. Tell me more re Australian Motorlife Museum and what it might offer?

[Tim Murray]

The specific reference to the Holbrook brothers from Joan Richmond is to the 1933 and 1934 Alpine Trials. Anyone ?

There's a brief mention of Claude Holbrook on the 1934 event in Martin Pfundner's Alpine Trials & Rallies:

But it was the Triumph team of three 972 cc SX Tens (Lt Col Claude Vivian Holbrook, JC Ridley and Victor E Leverett) that won the 1100 cc Alpine Cup, and this success was complemented by Glacier Cups for the individual entries of Donald Healey and MA Newnham. The Singer team was second, and Adler third.

In the results section the Triumph team is listed as:

Claude Vivian Holbrook/Shemans, J Ridley/Sharp, Victor Leverett/Rollason.

I can't find any mention of any Holbrook in the 1933 event.

Edited by Tim Murray, 02 June 2011 - 22:56.

[john medley]

Thanks Tim.

The Joan Richmond book is a little vague on the 1933 Alpine.

Her mention of NDH re 1934 Alpine includes ( after Joan and Eva-- later Hugh Conway's wife-- paused to party and dance with peasants... somewhere in the Balkans) "the Colonel and his brother arrived... the Holbrooks were great mixers... and they also joined in"

[Vitesse2]

Joan drove for Singer in the 1933 Alpine and retired on the second day with a broken fuel pump. Holbrook competed as an individual - there was no Triumph works team as such - and retired on the fifth and last day "within striking distance of the finish" (Motor Sport Sept 1933, p503) with a broken half shaft.

There are whole chapters on the 1933 and 1934 Alpines in "Georges Roesch and the Invincible Talbot". Obviously told from the Talbot team's point of view, but the 1934 Balkans reference presumably refers to Yugoslavia - the route went from Fiume to Zagreb for an overnight stop and then north to Austria. The Talbot people were less than impressed with Yugoslavia, so it gets very little mention apart from the bad roads and inhospitable hotel!

[johnny yuma]

John-go to gravelroots.net and access the Iping index,there's a page on N.D.Holbrook,VC. In an eccentric British way they refer to him as Ronald twice but the rest of the time he is Norman.He visited Holbrook three times,retired from the Navy 1920,spent most of his time farming and was chairman of the publishing company....and raced at Brooklands against Lawrence of Arabia...no I made that bit up.

[GMACKIE]

John, sorry for not getting back to you earlier. If you send me an email, I can return one with a contact number of someone who may? be able to help.

Cheers, Greg...........greg@kirrapak.com