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Drivers, managers, images


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#1 YellowHelmet

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 12:43

The way drivers are seen, are presented through the media.
Every driver has a manager who tries to make a public star out of a driver, therefore drivers have to be recognizable and having some images that they represent continuously.

I wanna debate about the strategies of the drivers, their managers how they want to be recognized in the public and what are their images they have (or try to construe)


e.g Since Simon Fuller (who made a star out of David Beckham, who by far was not the best player, but he is the best earning football player) has become manager of Lewis, Lewis public attitude has changed in the direction of being more aggressive in interviews.
But what about other drivers, like Alonso, Vettel, Rosberg etc. what are their images, who are their managers and what are they trying to construe?

Edited by YellowHelmet, 06 June 2011 - 12:44.


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#2 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 12:48

...do they?

I only ever see them at the race track.

#3 YellowHelmet

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 12:52

...do they?

I only ever see them at the race track.

really, i see vettel a lot in tv-shows, like in servustv or in wetten, dass...? in germany and other shows in tv, plus a lot of advertisment etc.

Edited by YellowHelmet, 06 June 2011 - 12:53.


#4 zack1994

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 13:16

The way drivers are seen, are presented through the media.
Every driver has a manager who tries to make a public star out of a driver, therefore drivers have to be recognizable and having some images that they represent continuously.

I wanna debate about the strategies of the drivers, their managers how they want to be recognized in the public and what are their images they have (or try to construe)


e.g Since Simon Fuller (who made a star out of David Beckham, who by far was not the best player, but he is the best earning football player) has become manager of Lewis, Lewis public attitude has changed in the direction of being more aggressive in interviews.
But what about other drivers, like Alonso, Vettel, Rosberg etc. what are their images, who are their managers and what are they trying to construe?

I dont think managers tell there drivers how to act and what personality they should put on.

#5 sosidge

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 13:18

I dont think managers tell there drivers how to act and what personality they should put on.


You can see the influence of the managers in the post-post-race media releases... the Lewis you saw straight out of the car at Monaco was the real Lewis, Simon Fuller would never have let him make the Ali G joke because it is a massive PR own-goal.

#6 broooz

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 14:05

David Beckham is a result of great marketing far more than of great skill.
Kimi Räikkönen is also a result of great marketing....the Robertsons put a magnificent spin to turn his flaws into some kind of enviable qualities and managed to sell him to two top teams in the process.

Edited by broooz, 06 June 2011 - 14:49.


#7 pingu666

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 14:13

there is for most drivers a media face and a side or construction







like f1 drivers dont get as mad as that.... sure xD


#8 apoka

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 14:19

really, i see vettel a lot in tv-shows, like in servustv or in wetten, dass...? in germany and other shows in tv, plus a lot of advertisment etc.

Vettel manages himself, so he is not a good example for discussing how managers influence the image of drivers.

#9 zack1994

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 14:24

You can see the influence of the managers in the post-post-race media releases... the Lewis you saw straight out of the car at Monaco was the real Lewis, Simon Fuller would never have let him make the Ali G joke because it is a massive PR own-goal.

im just saying that most managers and drivers dont strategically fake a personality, most dont tell the truth on what they really feel though thats true.

#10 pingu666

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 14:28

vettel would have the redbull guys to manage him in this area, media training etc

#11 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 14:32

You're confusing the professionalism/blandness/whatever with having a fake personality.

#12 jonnoj

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 14:33

The way drivers are seen, are presented through the media.
Every driver has a manager who tries to make a public star out of a driver, therefore drivers have to be recognizable and having some images that they represent continuously.

I wanna debate about the strategies of the drivers, their managers how they want to be recognized in the public and what are their images they have (or try to construe)


e.g Since Simon Fuller (who made a star out of David Beckham, who by far was not the best player, but he is the best earning football player) has become manager of Lewis, Lewis public attitude has changed in the direction of being more aggressive in interviews.
But what about other drivers, like Alonso, Vettel, Rosberg etc. what are their images, who are their managers and what are they trying to construe?


If you don't know what the public image of a driver is, then the manager has failed. Then again there may have never been any attempt to create a public image of any current driver, in which case, your post is nonsense.



#13 Watkins74

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 14:34

I dont think managers tell there drivers how to act and what personality they should put on.

I don't know about that. Many big agencies have training on how to deal with the press. When Danica Patrick signed with IMG she was suddenly a changed woman. You could tell she was taught not to be so self-centered in her answers.

#14 YellowHelmet

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 09:16

when talking about lewis, there are more and more press reports (especially in germany) who are saying that lewis attitude towards media has changed since simon fuller has become his manager.

are those also the impressions of media from other countries?
what do you think is the goal of simon fuller?



#15 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 09:35

I haven't seen any difference. Other than growing his weird beard.

#16 teejay

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 09:44

like f1 drivers dont get as mad as that.... sure xD


Hehe

http://www.youtube.c...EBABBEC54C08A75

#17 Bonaventura

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 10:42

when talking about lewis, there are more and more press reports (especially in germany) who are saying that lewis attitude towards media has changed since simon fuller has become his manager.

are those also the impressions of media from other countries?
what do you think is the goal of simon fuller?

The most reports are only superficial and based on sciolism
Some of the reports are lost in translation, too

#18 f1fan1998

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 13:33

It is an interesting thread this one, but I think the language barrier has got in the way.

What you are trying to establish is what I do for a living. There are two things to consider;

1. The brand identity: What does the brand perceive themselves as? Do they think they are 'cool, professional, luxury?'
2. The brand image: This is different to the identity as it is nothing to do with what the brand thinks but actually what does the brand audience and its users believe to be the brand values. E.g. I drink coke, and I think it is refreshing, tasty, cool. The difference is that Coke themselves may want me to think something else, hence they will use brand ambassadors, advertising etc to change my perception.

The third thing to cover off, is that mostly it is the teams that shape the brand of a driver and not the drivers personnel. The typical driver manager is actually a commercial wheeler dealer and not a marketer shaping opinions.


IMO the only driver to have recognised all this in F1 is Senna. He did a lot of this himself.


Because we are talking brand image, and F1, I feel free to give my opinions. Hamilton = c0ck. Fuller in the short term won't have an affect, in teh medium term, hamilton will appear an all together different person and in the long term he will be a failed hip hop artist or some nonsense.





#19 broooz

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 13:35

It is an interesting thread this one, but I think the language barrier has got in the way.

What you are trying to establish is what I do for a living. There are two things to consider;

1. The brand identity: What does the brand perceive themselves as? Do they think they are 'cool, professional, luxury?'
2. The brand image: This is different to the identity as it is nothing to do with what the brand thinks but actually what does the brand audience and its users believe to be the brand values. E.g. I drink coke, and I think it is refreshing, tasty, cool. The difference is that Coke themselves may want me to think something else, hence they will use brand ambassadors, advertising etc to change my perception.

The third thing to cover off, is that mostly it is the teams that shape the brand of a driver and not the drivers personnel. The typical driver manager is actually a commercial wheeler dealer and not a marketer shaping opinions.


IMO the only driver to have recognised all this in F1 is Senna. He did a lot of this himself.


Because we are talking brand image, and F1, I feel free to give my opinions. Hamilton = c0ck. Fuller in the short term won't have an affect, in teh medium term, hamilton will appear an all together different person and in the long term he will be a failed hip hop artist or some nonsense.

True. Senna was an absolute master of the self-promotion and self-branding.

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#20 YellowHelmet

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 13:44

It is an interesting thread this one, but I think the language barrier has got in the way.

What you are trying to establish is what I do for a living. There are two things to consider;

1. The brand identity: What does the brand perceive themselves as? Do they think they are 'cool, professional, luxury?'
2. The brand image: This is different to the identity as it is nothing to do with what the brand thinks but actually what does the brand audience and its users believe to be the brand values. E.g. I drink coke, and I think it is refreshing, tasty, cool. The difference is that Coke themselves may want me to think something else, hence they will use brand ambassadors, advertising etc to change my perception.

The third thing to cover off, is that mostly it is the teams that shape the brand of a driver and not the drivers personnel. The typical driver manager is actually a commercial wheeler dealer and not a marketer shaping opinions.


IMO the only driver to have recognised all this in F1 is Senna. He did a lot of this himself.


Because we are talking brand image, and F1, I feel free to give my opinions. Hamilton = c0ck. Fuller in the short term won't have an affect, in teh medium term, hamilton will appear an all together different person and in the long term he will be a failed hip hop artist or some nonsense.

Thank you very much for your post :up:

Because you mentioned Senna, how would you sum up his "marketing"?
what were the main themes his marketing was build around? etc.

#21 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 13:49

David Beckham is a result of great marketing far more than of great skill.
Kimi Räikkönen is also a result of great marketing....the Robertsons put a magnificent spin to turn his flaws into some kind of enviable qualities and managed to sell him to two top teams in the process.

Listen to the armchair expert, everyone.. :rolleyes:

#22 f1fan1998

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 14:23

Thank you very much for your post :up:

Because you mentioned Senna, how would you sum up his "marketing"?
what were the main themes his marketing was build around? etc.


Main themes (values) were;

competitor
passion
honesty
driven
beliefs (not just religious)

His manager was actually Julien Jakobi who now runs CSS Stellar. Whether it was julien or Senna himself that came up with these vaules (if my values are close to being accurate) - who knows, but they were implemented across all types of communications about the brand e.g. with consistency. Consistency is what helps to creates strong brands.

Senna was a strong brand and importantly his brand wasn't dependent on winning. This is a difficult thing for an athlete to achieve.

#23 karne

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 14:24

I dont think managers tell there drivers how to act and what personality they should put on.


I think it happens sometimes. I don't think there's huge personality cover-ups going on in F1, I think it's more subtle.

You can see the influence of the managers in the post-post-race media releases... the Lewis you saw straight out of the car at Monaco was the real Lewis, Simon Fuller would never have let him make the Ali G joke because it is a massive PR own-goal.


Depends on the driver. Absolutely. Hamilton's cultivated this clean-cut, good boy image, that's what his managers want him to show. The Hamilton who got out of the car at Monaco was the one who reminded me why I took a dislike to him originally.

But if you look at someone like Webber, he doesn't do that. He's always open and honest, to the point of shooting himself in the foot at times. The China PC was a great example of that. He didn't get the wording of that quite right, and it nearly backfired on him (but then haters are gonna hate). Turkey 2010 was a great one. We all saw how Massa backed down under questioning about team orders; when asked similar questions, Webber didn't say yes (which would have made his position at RBR completely untenable), but he did say that the journalists needed to dig a little deeper into the engine situation, which was saying yes without saying yes, if you catch my drift. He didn't try and cover it in PR fluff.

And then you see him posting on Twitter (bad spelling at all...I love him, but please Markie, please work on your spelling :blush: ), and it's all very forthright, typical Webber, great sense of humour, but exactly the same guy you get on TV.

I think quite a few drivers could benefit from the "no bullsh!t" PR image that Webber has.

David Beckham is a result of great marketing far more than of great skill.
Kimi Räikkönen is also a result of great marketing....the Robertsons put a magnificent spin to turn his flaws into some kind of enviable qualities and managed to sell him to two top teams in the process.


That's an insult to David Beckham. But I agree, I never saw what was so wonderful about Raikkonen smoking and drinking and carrying on like a prized buffoon, and couldn't even be bothered to race some days.


Vettel manages himself, so he is not a good example for discussing how managers influence the image of drivers.


Ah. That would explain a lot, like the sulking and pouting and throwing toys out of the pram that occurred at each race that his teammate beat him at last year. (Seriously, LOOK at the podium in Hungary. If that's not a pout, I don't know what is.) Someone ought to tell him that that's really unbecoming.


im just saying that most managers and drivers dont strategically fake a personality, most dont tell the truth on what they really feel though thats true.


I agree with this. I think a lot of drivers just spout the lines they are given. They don't have the balls to be themselves.

#24 YellowHelmet

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:45

Main themes (values) were;

competitor
passion
honesty
driven
beliefs (not just religious)

His manager was actually Julien Jakobi who now runs CSS Stellar. Whether it was julien or Senna himself that came up with these vaules (if my values are close to being accurate) - who knows, but they were implemented across all types of communications about the brand e.g. with consistency. Consistency is what helps to creates strong brands.

Senna was a strong brand and importantly his brand wasn't dependent on winning. This is a difficult thing for an athlete to achieve.

Thanks for that.

I would add to that list two more themes:
helpfullness
injustice towards him and his brazilian people (he tried to help and change the situation of the poor)