39 replies to this topic

[DogEarred]

Please forget all this Eddie Jordan 'talent spotter' nonsense!

We've all seen drivers at an early stage in their careers that we have picked out for stardom, one way or another.

Some particular moments where I remember saying to myself "Yes - F1 Champion!" :-

Jody Scheckter taking Paddock Bend in an early FF1600 race.
Similarly Emmo. (And also in a wet/dry early F3 race at Brands.)
Senna at one of his first FF1600 races at Thruxton after spinning early on.

Any other moments where you have had such thoughts, F1 or not?...

[Cirrus]

Any other moments where you have had such thoughts, F1 or not?...

Yes - many times. I'm usually wrong though. Par example...

Pekka Herva - outstanding car control at an FF Festival
John Pratt - likewise
Russell Wood - demolished the field in F3 in early '73

... and one where events sadly prevented me from ever finding out if I was right or wrong - Lorraine Peck.

[DogEarred]

Yes - many times. I'm usually wrong though. Par example...

Pekka Herva - outstanding car control at an FF Festival
John Pratt - likewise
Russell Wood - demolished the field in F3 in early '73

... and one where events sadly prevented me from ever finding out if I was right or wrong - Lorraine Peck.

Sorry, never heard of Pekka but the others are understandable. And I'd include Thierry Boutsen at a wet FF Festival too.
I'd suggest the FF Festivals over the years would (should) have given many people food for thought...
Very sad about Lorraine though.

[alansart]

I'd suggest the FF Festivals over the years would (should) have given many people food for thought...

Johnny Herbert 1985.

[E1pix]

Gordon Smiley, Formula Ford 1975.

Scott Overbey, karting 1977.

Scott Pruett, karting 1981.

Jimmy Vasser, Formula Ford 1985.

Greg Moore, his first Indy Lights test, 1993.


Obvious all would go far.

[DogEarred]

Johnny Herbert 1985.

Not to mention his worldwide acclaimed victory in a wet 100cc kart race at the Tilburyring, a couple of years earlier....

[Bauble]

Watch out for Tom Ingram currently racing in the Ginetta G50 Supercup series that runs with the BTCC, six wins from eleven rounds, second from the back of the grid at Donington overhauling the leader, and nine podiums. Struggling for sponsorship before every round, he has tremendous car control,and a genuine 'racing brain', rarely outside of the points. If he can find the money to keep racing I reckon he knocks Hamilton into a cocked hat in terms of natural ability.

All well and good looking back but I'll put my money where my mouth is - Tom Ingram is the hottest talent racing today.

Edited by Bauble, 06 June 2011 - 19:12.

[E1pix]

Watch out for Tom Ingram currently racing in the Ginetta G50 Supercup series that runs with the BTCC, seven wins from eleven rounds, second from the back of the grid at Donington overhauling the leader. Struggling for sponsorship before every round, he has tremendous car control,and a genuine 'racing brain', rarely outside of the points. If he can find the money to keep racing I reckon he knocks Hamilton into a cocked hat in terms of natural ability.

All well and good looking back but I'll put my money where my mouth is - Tom Ingram is the hottest talent racing today.

I hope for Tom's sake that someone reads your recommendation.

Good drivers deserve careers, and too often don't get their chance!

[Pink Snail]

Bauble`s right about Tom Ingram. Some of the kids in the Ginetta Juniors are `turning 14` this year and have given us some great TV viewing already in 2011. Those cars are like go-carts with bodywork ....one actually pitted yesterday at Oulton after losing pretty much all the front bodywork and went on to finish the race . The cars are evenly matched so much of the result depends on the driver....I agree - watch young Tom !
Personally I can`t lay claim to spotting any talent -(apart from some of the Donington grid girls!! )but I have seen some promising young guns in the Minardi F1x2 cars ....Matteo Bobbi, Justin Wilson, Fernando Alonso to name 3.
In Historics there are a few good racers these days that don`t have the money to to bigger stuff but deserve a break once in a while.

[CarlRabbidge]

A couple of Kiwi's kids to keep your eyes on in the UK and Europe. Richie Stanaway and Mitch Evans.
Don't write Brendon Hartley off yet either

[Barry Boor]

I am breaking roughly even on the talent spotting score.

I told people about Lewis Hamilton when he was about 10 years old (+1) and I was very enthusiastic about Soheil Ayari... (-1).

I am yet to be totally vindicated re Sergio Perez but he's on the way.

My next couple are Alexander Rossi and Esteban Gutiérrez.

Mitch Evans is only 16 but won a GP.3 race at Barcelona very comfortably recently. He looks very useful.

Edited by Barry Boor, 06 June 2011 - 20:59.

[2F-001]

I don't think I'm anywhere near breaking even...
When I saw Soheil Ayari in FF, I hailed him as the next French World Champion.

Those of us who witnessed Emerson F, Scheckter, Bellof and Senna in their early years in the junior categories were hardly talent-scouts - we were simply spectators; anyone who didn't think those guys were headed for the top clearly wasn't watching!

At the time, Russell Wood seemed so obviously destined for stardom that I don't think the matter was debated much - it seemed to be a certainty...

Edited by 2F-001, 07 June 2011 - 04:41.

[Barry Boor]

Ah, Tony, I feel so much better now.

[sterling49]

Sometimes it all goes horribly wrong though, the names that went through Paddock so much faster than anybody else, included ( and I saw them all) Luiz Bueno and Ricardo Ashcar (sp) I think they drove JRRDS cars, a pair of winners if ever I saw any, but just where did they go?

[Giraffe]

Sometimes it all goes horribly wrong though, the names that went through Paddock so much faster than anybody else, included ( and I saw them all) Luiz Bueno and Ricardo Ashcar (sp) I think they drove JRRDS cars, a pair of winners if ever I saw any, but just where did they go?

One recently to his grave......

http://forums.autosp...p;#entry4892613

...& the other's pic coincidentally popped up on Facebook yesterday, seemingly at Oulton Park


By giraffe138 at 2011-06-07

Edited by Giraffe, 07 June 2011 - 07:27.

[lyntonh]

I reckoned I'd spotted talent in 1971 watching Larry Perkins throw the car around Warwick Farm in Sydney.

Edited by lyntonh, 20 February 2012 - 12:24.

[Stephen W]

I was impressed by Ayrton Senna da Silva in FF1600, raved about him when he drove FF2000 & then everyone else seemed to join in!

I was impressed by Geoff Lees when he was in the lower formula but he never made it big - a lost talent.

Nowadays it doesn't matter if you are a wonderful driver you also have to be a PR person as well!

Edited by Stephen W, 07 June 2011 - 08:26.

[Giraffe]

Nowadays it doesn't matter if you are a wonderful driver you also have to be a PR person as well!

And have the ability to analyse & interpret data effectively. That's the only way to become a faster & better race driver these days.

When I started my involvement in the sport, Tim Schenken was the next big thing as he was becoming virtually unbeatable in Formula Ford and F3. He has a fine career of course, but a great deal more was expected of him at the time. A couple of badly judged moves and he never quite fulfilled that early potential. Next up was Emerson who was always going places...

Edited by Giraffe, 07 June 2011 - 08:42.

[Tim Murray]

My great 'lost cause' is Kenny Acheson. When I saw him in FF I was convinced he was going all the way to the top. Perhaps if things had panned out differently, he might have ...

[Alan Cox]

Sometimes it all goes horribly wrong though, the names that went through Paddock so much faster than anybody else, included ( and I saw them all) Luiz Bueno and Ricardo Ashcar (sp) I think they drove JRRDS cars, a pair of winners if ever I saw any, but just where did they go?

Ricardo Achcar in FF at Oulton Park 1968 http://www.mikehaywa...hcar-merlyn.htm
http://www.google.co...mp;ved=0CBsQsAQ
He went on to produce the Polar Super Vee.

[Sharman]

I was impressed by Ayrton Senna da Silva in FF1600, raved about him when he drove FF2000 & then everyone else seemed to join in!

I was impressed by Geoff Lees when he was in the lower formula but he never made it big - a lost talent.

Nowadays it doesn't matter if you are a wonderful driver you also have to be a PR person as well!

When I watched Senna in FF2000 at Oulton I said he was going to kill somebody.....

[faaaz]

Mitch Evans looks decent, he has Mark Webber there supporting him too so you know the right people are looking after him too. I'm sure the right career moves would be made if he has the talent.

[Michael Ferner]

I was a better talent spotter (pre-F3) when I was younger...

Saw Ayrton Senna (better known as da Silva back then) when I was 15, in 1982, and "knew" he'd be World Champion several times over.

Was similarly convinced when I saw Andre Lotterer sixteen years later, didn't quite pan out that way...

A bit later on in their respective careers, I picked Juan Montoya (F3000) and Takuma Sato (F3) for future super-stardom - close, perhaps, but no cigar...

[Barry Boor]

But surely at least a packet of cigarettes for Montoya?

[D-Type]

Isn't this a bit like summer when we were kids? We remember the sunny days but not the grey and rainy ones. Likewise we remember "spotting" Senna, or whoever, but forget that we also "spotted" others at the same time who didn't progress as far. Which leads us back to the old thread "Unfulfilled Promise" or whatever it was called.

[DogEarred]

All well and good looking back but I'll put my money where my mouth is - Tom Ingram is the hottest talent racing today.
[/quote]

So does that mean you're going to use some of your (I've heard) not inconsiderable fortune to sponsor him through GP3 & GP3 for £3-4million, into F1 in exchange for 25% of his earnings for the next 10 years?

Good luck to him though.

[Michael Ferner]

But surely at least a packet of cigarettes for Montoya?

Yes, of course, but I expected soooo much more of him...

[john winfield]

A bit later on in their respective careers, I picked Juan Montoya (F3000) and Takuma Sato (F3) for future super-stardom - close, perhaps, but no cigar...
[/quote]

I was fairly sure about Sato too! And Pizzonia as well. I suppose there is still time.....
From an earlier era, Dave Walker looked so quick and canny in 1971 that future GP success seemed a certainty. And in the mid-1970s I knew that, if all Grand Prix were 12 laps maximum and held on the Silverstone Club Circuit, Jim Walsh was a future World Champion.

Edited by john winfield, 07 June 2011 - 09:45.

[Giraffe]

Isn't this a bit like summer when we were kids? We remember the sunny days but not the grey and rainy ones.

Crikey no. When I think back to my 20 odd year marshalling career, my overriding memory is of clouds, grey sky, rain from showers to cloudbursts and being both cold and wet.
Sunny days at a circuit seemed very rare indeed, although summer Tuesday nights at Aintree I remember as being being warm & dry on the whole as I rode there on my pushbike.
It didn't seem to deter me somehow; that's youth I suppose.

[Michael Ferner]

Isn't this a bit like summer when we were kids? We remember the sunny days but not the grey and rainy ones. Likewise we remember "spotting" Senna, or whoever, but forget that we also "spotted" others at the same time who didn't progress as far. Which leads us back to the old thread "Unfulfilled Promise" or whatever it was called.

If that was the case, I appear to be a "rainy-day rememberer" Truth is, except for Senna, I think I missed most of the "big ones". Didn't even know how to spell Schumacher when I saw him racing in F1 for the first time

Pedro Lamy was another one I thought of VERY highly in FOpel and F3, and Jirky Järvilehto achieved nowhere near what I expected of him!

Edited by Michael Ferner, 07 June 2011 - 09:54.

[D-Type]

Crikey no. When I think back to my 20 odd year marshalling career, my overriding memory is of clouds, grey sky, rain from showers to cloudbursts and being both cold and wet.
Sunny days at a circuit seemed very rare indeed, although summer Tuesday nights at Aintree I remember as being being warm & dry on the whole as I rode there on my pushbike.It didn't seem to deter me somehow; that's youth I suppose.

Is that because you didn't ride your bike there if it was raining - or because the ride warmed you up?

[Giraffe]

If that was the case, I appear to be a "rainy-day rememberer" Truth is, except for Senna, I think I missed most of the "big ones". Didn't even know how to spell Schumacher when I saw him racing in F1 for the first time

When Schumacher first appeared in GP's I was working with a bunch of Germans in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. When the racing came on the telly, it was like being at a Hitler rally!

[Giraffe]

Is that because you didn't ride your bike there if it was raining - or because the ride warmed you up?

Rather like Mallory Wednesdays Duncan, the weather always seemed to be kind!

[2F-001]

I was impressed by Geoff Lees when he was in the lower formula but he never made it big - a lost talent.

Depends what you call 'big', I suppose! European Formula Two Champion isn't exactly 'small' in anyone's book, though, is it?

[Sharman]

Crikey no. When I think back to my 20 odd year marshalling career, my overriding memory is of clouds, grey sky, rain from showers to cloudbursts and being both cold and wet.
Sunny days at a circuit seemed very rare indeed, although summer Tuesday nights at Aintree I remember as being being warm & dry on the whole as I rode there on my pushbike.
It didn't seem to deter me somehow; that's youth I suppose.

...and going to Oulton in the pouring rain in an M Type MG with only aero screens...and I was as happy as a dog with two tails.

[BRG]

I was fairly sure about Sato too! And Pizzonia as well. I suppose there is still time.....

Me too.

Then there were a dozen or so promising young Brits who looked good in F3 but could never find the backing to go on. Plus the unfortunate Stephen South whose progress was sadly stopped in its tracks.

I also spotted Hamilton (although not in Croydon), but then, who didn't. The most obvious case of a future WDC possible.

[PMac]

A couple who caught my eye in the late '80s were Niko Palhares and Vicenzo Sospiri. In fact, I was certain Sospiri was going to make it big. He was awesome in FF1600. That year, he raced against Gil de Ferran, who completely failed to impress me. Shows how little I know...

[Alan Cox]

Then there were a dozen or so promising young Brits who looked good in F3 but could never find the backing to go on. Plus the unfortunate Stephen South whose progress was sadly stopped in its tracks.

Yes, I, too, was a Stephen South fan and thought he would have carried on to mix it with the best if fate hadn't intervened but, as ever, I could have been proved wrong, Disappointing that we will never know.

[KWSN - DSM]

I think having 'seen' the obvious ones are too easy, way way way back when I was racing (possible I was only driving) Go-Karts Ayrton Senna da Silva was known by ALL, to be an immense talent, so 'finding' him once he moved to Formula Racing is too late.

Many of those listed above, did have sensible racing careers, and only to a certain extent fit in to the 'what if' category.

Not all drivers could have been world beaters, yet some could have had middle of the F1 grid potential, had the stars aligned correctly, and some would then possibly have done even better than that.

Drivers I wrongly (or rightly) had pegged for having it before F1.

Mark Webber - Took a long time, but he did finally come good. Not absolute front running talent, but a super number 2 driver in any team.

Alex Caffi - Based on his albeit meager pedigree, I had him as being the 'next Italian World Champion', did not turn out to be the case.

Giorgio Pantano - I am still convinced that he is better than many of the current F1 drivers

Marc Duez - I may stand corrected, but think he won the Belgian and Benelux Championship in Formula Ford AND Rally, and he had a long career in Group C and it's succssors, I know that I have seen him in a Group C2 be the fastest guy on the track, during and right after a downpour at Spa. At which time he was still young(ish), and I had him go to the top.a

Rickard Rydell - As a single seater driver, not his later Standard car exploits

[ExFlagMan]

When I watched Senna in FF2000 at Oulton I said he was going to kill somebody.....

I must have beaten you by a year then, as the first time I saw Senna was in 1981 in FF1600 and turned to my fellow flag marshal and said - that guy will be world champion, if he doesn't kill himself first.