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#51 MatsNorway

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 09:24

well, it would be nice to look under that bonnet..... What I am saying is that WRC cars have boost all the time..


It would indeed be interesting to have comments from people on this forum on the car.

Here is a bad view of the engine.



They claim to have had focus on getting god exit out of slow speed corners.


This is the 2011 specification Ford RS200 to be driven by Mark Rennison built to do pikes peak by Peter Bennett and the boys at MDV. The engine has been built specifically to accelerate out of the slow speed corners of pikes peak by Geoff Page Racing. The engine is a 2.4L BDTE.Brake’s are the latest from alcon,Suspension is Black Art Designs Ltd 3 way adjustable remote canister units. The turbo has been built by Garrett in USA and runs a specific altitude compressor. The engine management system has been built specially by Life racing systems. The pistons within this engine were made by J-E also in the USA. A new state of the art crank shaft has been produced for the massive torque generated from this engine and both crank and rods are designed by GPR. This engine makes in excess of 920Nm of torque between 5000 and 5500RPM and approximately 900 horsepower."

" Any information or questions you can contact Geoff Page.at geoff.page@btconnect.com"


http://mylifeatspeed.com/archives/2998

http://www.autoblog....s-peak-hill-cl/
nitrous is added to boost the power up to 1150hp.

All i can say is that that intercooler looks small compared to what 900hp cars and lower usually has.

Petter Solberg will attend in 2012 btw.

Edited by MatsNorway, 10 June 2011 - 09:24.


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#52 kikiturbo2

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 09:38

Petter Solberg will attend in 2012 btw.



yeah, talked to him and his race engineer FX on the monte this year... they are building a car a and looking for a sponsor, so we do not know "which" car it will be branded in the end.. :)


#53 gruntguru

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 10:38

This is the best Pikes Peak video going currently

Good video - didn't get into the driving. Found myself wishing for a live traction circle display like the "Corvette Nurburgring" video.

#54 Peter Leversedge

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 11:26

Was a time when you could win at PP in a "good old" sprint car..............How time have changed, but are they for the better ):

#55 MatsNorway

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 13:51

Was a time when you could win at PP in a "good old" sprint car..............How time have changed, but are they for the better ):


with the increased Tarmac i wouldn`t be supriced if that dallenbach car does well.

yeah, talked to him and his race engineer FX on the monte this year... they are building a car a and looking for a sponsor, so we do not know "which" car it will be branded in the end.. :)


Awesome. i read it was talk about one of the older rally cars he owns. some citroeng shell. He has a lot of contacts in norway and probably other places so making a decent car should be possible in a short time. even if he doesn`t get a manufacturer behind him. But as allways.. a great car takes time.

I don`t think just taking a rallycar and trow in a mad engine is good enough these days.

Marcus grønholm tried that with a Fiesta.. And got beaten by some relatively unknown jap in a suzuki with with no great motorsport career outside pikes peak.. :D

Edited by MatsNorway, 10 June 2011 - 15:13.


#56 cheapracer

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 15:04

Was a time when you could win at PP in a "good old" sprint car..............How time have changed, but are they for the better ):


I don't see Dallenbach's effort as much more than a well sort out sprint car, must be seriously cheap in comparison to what the AWD turbo club'ers are running. I am quietly hoping he gets top 3 and blows off Rys Millen's "the walking cliche" big budget effort in the process.

Why hasn't anyone mention his F1'ish AWD attempt by the way ....

Car build video here - http://www.tudou.com...ew/CRs7bOWK1Zw/

Posted Image

I love the classes at Pikes Peak and they all get good recognition as well (as does most US racing in comparison to other countries).

Edited by cheapracer, 10 June 2011 - 15:05.


#57 cheapracer

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 15:24

Ok, I just found this 25 minute German special on Rys Millen and the 'Things' 2010 attempt. It's in german and they can't seem to STFU but worth the watch anyway. Chinese website so i hope it's slow for some 'no Youtube' payback.

I can not for the life of me understand why these effing idiots, and I have no nicer words, designed in a stunning 20 degrees(?) steering lock for Pikes Peak, the worlds most sideways race - it is blatantly obvious that it seriously holds the car back and why he spins ...

http://www.tudou.com...ew/XS6vH5MeQt0/

Theres some other Pikes Peak stuff on the search page, I may not get Youtube but I get a lot of great stuff on the Chinese sites that would otherwise be taken off Western sites ..

http://so.tudou.com/...rch/pikes peak/

#58 desmo

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 15:35

This is the best Pikes Peak video going currently


:up: Love it.

#59 cheapracer

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 15:41

Was a time when you could win at PP in a "good old" sprint car..............How time have changed, but are they for the better ):


Just noticed this Peter, think you'll like it!! Be patient if it's slow, worth the wait and if you can't get it tell me...

http://www.tudou.com...ew/DLtlf5pPPS4/

Maybe on Youtube but here is Dallenbach's first run in the 1300hp thing, geeeeez it moves ..

http://www.tudou.com...ew/6kTZSVIQPi4/

Oh it's here ...
http://www.bankspower.com/pikespeak

Oh and theres quite few Pikes on my other favorite Chinese site .. most will be on Youtube but there might be one or two there that aren't...

http://www.soku.com/...eo/q_pikes Peak

Edited by cheapracer, 10 June 2011 - 15:53.


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#60 gruntguru

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 07:13

I can not for the life of me understand why these effing idiots, and I have no nicer words, designed in a stunning 20 degrees(?) steering lock for Pikes Peak, the worlds most sideways race - it is blatantly obvious that it seriously holds the car back and why he spins ...

Perhaps if the effing idiots had left the active centre diff set at 50:50? But then with all that drifting experience you couldn't expect Rhys to go up the mountain without turning the knob a little towards "sideways". And everybody knows that "arse end first" is the quickest way on any surface.

Edited by gruntguru, 11 June 2011 - 07:35.


#61 kikiturbo2

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 14:34

.. And got beaten by some relatively unknown jap in a suzuki with with no great motorsport career outside pikes peak.. :D



you are joking, right?

#62 cheapracer

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 15:19

And got beaten by some relatively unknown jap in a suzuki with with no great motorsport career outside pikes peak.. :D


I have seen Monster drive (Australian WRC round) and at the time he was quite incredibly running in the top 10 in a n/a 1300cc FWD Suzuki Swift with only regular International WRC runners ahead of him and 10's of known National runners including various National Champions behind him all in AWD turbo's and there's a number of rallies he competed in that that statement fits too.

Monster is a legend worldwide (thats the bigger place outside of Norway) and I dare say he is known by more people in the World than some Norg who won the WRC in 2003.

Edited by cheapracer, 11 June 2011 - 15:21.


#63 singulus

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 16:42

Monster is a legend worldwide (thats the bigger place outside of Norway) and I dare say he is known by more people in the World than some Norg who won the WRC in 2003.


No one is trying to undermine Monster's skills, but ... the argument that he's known by more people in the world compared to Petter Solberg has, let's say, nothing to do with their driving skills. Generally, both drivers are racing in their respective series, that is, they are specialized at what they do. But, to call a World Rally Champion, 3-times runner up, maybe the second-best in stage wins, "some Norg"...?!?

If Tajima was that good at rallying, he would have raced at top WRC level already, at least I think he wouldn't have much problems getting the funding for a top-spec WRC car, let's say for a season. Not that I'm implying that he is afraid or something ... in the same way, the WRC drivers as a whole are not THAT successful at Pikes Peak relatively to their skills ... so maybe the key is specialization.

Edited by singulus, 11 June 2011 - 16:43.


#64 MatsNorway

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 20:21

My statement was based upon what i read at the wiki article about this monter guy.. And even tho pikes peak is a big race it doesn`t exacly have a big amount of contestants in the unlimited class.

The argument about being only below the WRC guys in some rally doesn`t hold up well either as i could easily find you a article where escort mk2s beat the WRC cars on stage times. i believe it was in a irish rally. it was covered on speedhunters.com





#65 MatsNorway

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 20:46

so maybe the key is specialization.


Absoluttely.. but i think the main issue is not the drivers that has tried but the gear that they have been given.. you need a very extreme and spesial car to beat a record like the one at pikes peak.
You really need to put a lot of work into it. slapping a slightly beefed up engine into a HEAVY WRC car isn`t good enough..



When you don`t have a weight limit.. do you really gain anything in lap times by adding steel (weight) to stiffen up the chassie?

i doubt that...







#66 cheapracer

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 03:07

My statement was based upon what i read at the wiki article about this monster guy..


Well I am surprised ....

"some Norg"...?!?


"unknown Jap"...?!?

Monster was "that good" at rallying, he was the Suzuki factory driver and drove what car they supplied him and he did it better than anybody else but like many Japanese (among other countries), he didn't like traveling far or feel the need to do the WRC circus.




#67 MatsNorway

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 08:10

There is supposedly tarmac all the way to the top next year. Guessing that if those small le mans like hillclimb cars and open wheelers shows up they will smoke the record.
A norma M20 with a hayabusa engine around 4-500hp would go like stink!


F1 to Pikes peak next year! then they can ditch the KERS and the ballast. would they dip into the 5xxkg area then?

Sounds like something Red Bull could do... they have allready had their car running on ice and sand beaches..




#68 bigleagueslider

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 04:31

The beauty of events like Pike's Peak and Bonneville are that they are the last races where a clever, motivated individual competitor working on their own, still has a shot at winning.

Back in the 40's and 50's, a guy could actually build an Indy roadster on his own, and have a shot at winning the race. In the 60's and 70's, guys like Breedlove, Gabelich, and Arfons built Bonneville streamliners in their garages that set world speed records. For less than $200K, you can build your own tube frame chassis, with fiberglass bodywork and a 1000hp turbocharged, methanol-fueled, big-block V8, ready for Pike's peak glory.

F1, Indy and LeMans now cost millions to compete in. The only thing that keeps Pike's Peak and Bonneville accessible to entrants with small budgets is the event's lack of visibility.

A great movie that tells just this type of story is "The World's Fastest Indian".

#69 MatsNorway

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 07:25

Onboard with the SX4
http://www.youtube.c...etailpage#t=60s

Great car. Seems to have power low down too. Taijma really pushes, ragged.. but to much? wouldn`t mind having FBs oppinion on the car and driver..

Btw a issue with going sideways would be that you loses downforce right. So would it be a sweetspot angle on gravel that variates with the speed. i wonder if some one has ever done tests to figure it out.

Edit..
Speaking of angle here is the Dacia Duster testing
http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

Rhys and Rod Millen testing.
http://www.youtube.c...etailpage#t=14s
My money is on the hyundai red bull car in unlimited.


Fun fact. the roll cage is allowed to be made only in 6061-T6 aluminium or SAE 4130 steel.
http://director.usac...fs/rulebook.pdf
page 29


Edited by MatsNorway, 14 June 2011 - 11:57.


#70 MatsNorway

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 12:51

Interestingly Jeff zwarts time in the 2WD time attack class is 10sec faster than the best ever in 4WD time attack and only 10 sec behind the open record.

A Porsche GT3 with NA engine and only 2WD is superior to 4WD turbo cars... Impressive. God work Jeff.

Jeff Zwart is now in the open class where the record has been standing since 2000. (Per Eklund)

It does not state what model, only that its a Porsche. Go Zwart.


#71 gruntguru

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 23:11

Speaking of angle here is the Dacia Duster testing
http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

Testing what? Dusting on tarmac?

Rhys and Rod Millen testing.
http://www.youtube.c...etailpage#t=14s
My money is on the hyundai red bull car in unlimited.

Agree. That suspension is working!!
My only concern is the amount of pitch and its potential effect on aero DF. I think the future is sprung aero, not sure if PP rules permit though.

Edited by gruntguru, 14 June 2011 - 23:13.


#72 MatsNorway

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 04:29

Agree. That suspension is working!!
My only concern is the amount of pitch and its potential effect on aero DF. I think the future is sprung aero, not sure if PP rules permit though.

hehe
They do. the unlimited class rules is on one A4 page. anything goes as long as it passes safety inspection.. meaning it needs to have a propper rollcage etc, in previously mentioned materials.
thats how i read them.

Edited by MatsNorway, 15 June 2011 - 04:30.


#73 gruntguru

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 05:37

Not even one page. Sounds like even powered aero would be OK.

UNLIMITED DIVISION

TECHNICAL REGULATIONS and SPECIAL RULES

The Director of Competition will determine the eligibility of a vehicle for

the Unlimited Division.

This division will allow any race vehicle invited by PPIHC and capable

of obtaining a new track record, to take part in this Unlimited Division.

All vehicles entered must meet safety requirements as outlined in the

"Safety Section." and adhere to the “General Competition Rules”



#74 cheapracer

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 04:50

I must admit I wish F1 was this ....

http://www.google.co...l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0

#75 gruntguru

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 07:56

. . . but wheel-to-wheel.

#76 cheapracer

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 09:53

. . . but wheel-to-wheel.


I just had a bit of time and watched that clip again, the car looks completely different from last year, a lot more driveable as well as 'effin fast and I dare say they increased the steering lock a little too although I still wouldn't want to back it into a hairpin.

Now if we could just get Millen, The Cliche King "The cars ready, I'm ready, after today it's going to be one hell of a race" to shutup.

Edited by cheapracer, 17 June 2011 - 09:54.


#77 MatsNorway

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 10:24

How heavy is that car?

can`t be more than about 800kg.

Edited by MatsNorway, 17 June 2011 - 10:58.


#78 cheapracer

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 04:04

How heavy is that car?

can`t be more than about 800kg.


Being a turbo'ed AWD with full tube chassis and built for some rough stuff I doubt it's under a 1000 on the startline with fuel and driver which probably makes the car itself around 800 to 850.

Last year when I first saw it it looked awkward and unsuitable for it's task which proved to be correct but with the latest footage I can't see it being beaten this year all things being equal as it looks totally drivable now and bloody fast - coincedently when father Rod comes out of retirement, smart man is Rod.

It's a worry what that win will lead too, such very highly specialised equipment soaks up big money and leaves independents far behind until they don't even bother, makes me hope even harder that Dallenbach takes it. Dallenbach actually broke a section record in testing last week but that doesn't mean a lot at the end of the day but keeps hopes high.

Nice read here ...
http://www.csindy.co...ent?oid=2244131

Edited by cheapracer, 18 June 2011 - 04:16.


#79 cheapracer

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 04:59


Some more Dallenbach vifeos now available ...



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#80 gruntguru

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 07:41

It's a worry what that win will lead too, such very highly specialised equipment soaks up big money and leaves independents far behind until they don't even bother, makes me hope even harder that Dallenbach takes it. Dallenbach actually broke a section record in testing last week but that doesn't mean a lot at the end of the day but keeps hopes high.

There have been some pretty serious entries going way back - Peugeot/Vatanen was 23 years ago!

If conditions are OK someone will go sub 10 minutes this year and I wouldn't be surprised to see both Millen and Dallenbach do it.

#81 cheapracer

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 13:59

There have been some pretty serious entries going way back - Peugeot/Vatanen was 23 years ago!

If conditions are OK someone will go sub 10 minutes this year and I wouldn't be surprised to see both Millen and Dallenbach do it.


Yeah but the Pug and Audi were already developed competition cars simply enhanced for the job as are the bulk of the runners whereas Millen's is a scratch built.

I didn't realise until I read that article above that there's only 3 miles of dirt left so if they do break 10 minutes I see it as a bit weak to claim that it was done when the track was still asphalt/dirt mix and based on that I hope they don't, letting the mountain claim it couldn't be beaten enhances it's myth.

#82 MatsNorway

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Posted 18 June 2011 - 18:03

Being a turbo'ed AWD with full tube chassis and built for some rough stuff I doubt it's under a 1000 on the startline with fuel and driver


The RS200 of Mark Rennison is 1000kg race ready with driver onboard. i would have been disapointed if the PM580 wasn`t any lighter.


#83 cheapracer

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 03:53

The RS200 of Mark Rennison is 1000kg race ready with driver onboard. i would have been disapointed if the PM580 wasn`t any lighter.


It has one more turbo system and it's a V6 so if it's the same weight it's actually lighter relative.


#84 MatsNorway

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 07:54

Regardless i would not be happy with the same weight.

Steel block on the RS200 evo?

Rhys?

#85 cheapracer

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 04:39

Steel block on the RS200 evo?

Rhys?


A tonne of feathers is the same weight as a tonne of lead - you're being blinded by presumptions a Ford cast iron 4 cyl. block is lighter than the V6 aluminium Hyundai.


#86 MatsNorway

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 13:09

A tonne of feathers is the same weight as a tonne of lead - you're being blinded by presumptions a Ford cast iron 4 cyl. block is lighter than the V6 aluminium Hyundai.


Some typos in the line is it not?
My assumptions about weight is not related to engine. Its down to it probably being a smaller car, with only one seat saving rollcage material and so on, some titanium parts and alot in carbon. I don`t think the brits got the same budget.

Btw. What is the spec on that Hyundai motor. 3liter?




#87 cheapracer

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 17:17

Btw. What is the spec on that Hyundai motor. 3liter?


With their budget and being based on the Genesis 3.8 V6 they are probably at 4.2 or something similar typically with a bit of bore and a bit of stroke.

It's a deceptively large car, the RS 200 would be smaller in size - actually from a rough measurement I just did the wheelbase/length of the Genesis is 2580/4200mm and the RS200 is 2530/4000mm (the PP RS200 may have a wing sticking out the back to add to that I'm guessing).


#88 kikiturbo2

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 17:20

When the Kiwi pilot is in the car, the combined weight is around 1925 pounds, depending on what Millen had for breakfast. RMR has tuned the 4.1-liter Lambda so it pumps out 700-horsepower and 700 pound-feet of torque. That go-fast energy is pushed out to all four corners of the PM580, and the meaty Hankooks grab the changing terrain like a quartet of tweens running into Bieber.



#89 MatsNorway

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 05:56

With their budget and being based on the Genesis 3.8 V6 they are probably at 4.2 or something similar typically with a bit of bore and a bit of stroke.

It's a deceptively large car, the RS 200 would be smaller in size - actually from a rough measurement I just did the wheelbase/length of the Genesis is 2580/4200mm and the RS200 is 2530/4000mm (the PP RS200 may have a wing sticking out the back to add to that I'm guessing).


Good guess on the Engine size cheapy.

KikiTurbo2
with driver: "873.165312 kilograms" (thanks)
Im happy with my own estimate too.

Can we have a party now? with baloons?

btw. How much fuel do they carry at the start line?

Edited by MatsNorway, 21 June 2011 - 05:57.


#90 gruntguru

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 06:36

Enough to get to the top + 1 gallon.

#91 cheapracer

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 09:47

btw. How much fuel do they carry at the start line?


I was trying to find that last night, I would guess 1 to 1.5 mpg so add 80kgs of fuel at the startline so about 950kgs.


#92 MatsNorway

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 18:34

I was trying to find that last night, I would guess 1 to 1.5 mpg so add 80kgs of fuel at the startline so about 950kgs.


thanks.

MY guess was 90-100liters.. for a 1000hp car. based upon how much the its fun 3 porsche used on a small racetrack.

#93 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 10:46

I was trying to find that last night, I would guess 1 to 1.5 mpg so add 80kgs of fuel at the startline so about 950kgs.


Isn't that half of what an F1 car uses? For 10 minutes?

#94 cheapracer

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 12:09

Isn't that half of what an F1 car uses? For 10 minutes?


I converted to litres incorrectly sorry, at 1 to 1.5 mpg say 14 to 10 gallons which is 40 to 56 litres aprox.

It would be pretty high consumption compared to an F1 - there's no consumption limit, it's a big engine turbo'ed so will be running quite rich for safety/cooling, much lower gearing than F1 and of course tight and steep uphill all the way.

Oh and of course the same 750hp power but double the torque 'cause that's what you need to accelerate up a hill ;)

F1 = 250 ft lbs
Hyundai = 500 ft lbs (estimates).

Edited by cheapracer, 22 June 2011 - 12:23.


#95 Canuck

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 04:56

Actually, Kikiturbo's post clearly says 700 little torques.

#96 MatsNorway

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 16:22

http://speedhunters....the-middle.aspx

jeff zwart drives a GT2 this year. And he drove it from southern california himself. good pr for porsche.
I hope he has done some tuning to it.

The unlimited suzuki. sounds like a turbine in there.. haha.
http://www.youtube.c...drec_grec_index

Edited by MatsNorway, 23 June 2011 - 18:14.


#97 MatsNorway

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 19:03

The Paul Dallenbach car uses 20 gallons.

#98 cheapracer

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 19:32

Actually, Kikiturbo's post clearly says 700 little torques.


I did estimate 8000 rpm so 750hp must come in around 5500 according to the calculator http://www.wallacera...horsepower2.htm


#99 gruntguru

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 08:30

Any updates from Pike's Peak?
I went to the website and found the practice times for Unlimited class but they only give a time for each section (bottom, middle and top). If you add the 3 splits all four drivers show well under 10 minutes, so I guess those are each driver's best split for each section - or is the practice course a little shorter?

Edited by gruntguru, 26 June 2011 - 08:31.


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#100 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 10:32

Hmm, I thought it was always 4th of July weekend