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F1 vs pikes peak


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#101 MatsNorway

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 11:54

I think its today.

Here is some photos from practise and so on.
http://speedhunters....o-the-dust.aspx
http://speedhunters....at-the-top.aspx

http://speedhunters....2-roadtrip.aspx

If Jeff Zwart takes the victory in his class i will be impressed. Its basically a "stock"GT2 RS with AC and all. just with the extra safety stuff.

Seems like the hyundai drift car goes fast in the hands of Rod millen.. would be cool to see him take a victory too. But im cheering for the Porsche.

Stefan verdier is my fav in 4WD time attack.

I wonder if they will alter the rulebook for next year as the race is according to speedhunters 90% tarmac. But the rulebook states that you can not run slicks.

For those of you who has not been reading all of the speedhunters posts i can enlighten and say that the Unlimited hyundai is very fast at the tarmac having good cornering speeds and goes like stink out of the corners. But the lines is not so good as the ones of Taijma. (props to him)

The monster did also set better stage times at the dirt part.

Paul Dallenbach was supposedly struggling with the 1300hp beast. He did also have a spinn during practise.

Fun side note: he is also the king on trowing up dirt and smoke.

Mark Rennison seems to have not entered.

All practise times here: http://www.usacracin.../ppihc/ts/2011#

Edited by MatsNorway, 26 June 2011 - 13:44.


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#102 cheapracer

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 13:41

If you add the 3 splits all four drivers show well under 10 minutes,


Light fuel load and fresh rubber each run.


#103 MatsNorway

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 14:31

Light fuel load and fresh rubber each run.


Fresh rubber perhaps but you gain nothing on running low fuel in practise if you are not in the race.

Edited by MatsNorway, 26 June 2011 - 14:33.


#104 cheapracer

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 17:15

you gain nothing on running low fuel in practice if you are not in the race.


I have no idea what that means.


#105 Tony Matthews

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 17:56

I was hoping someone would say that - I didn't want to be rude.

#106 MatsNorway

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 19:25

Seriously?

I meant that its no point running the car lighter than what it would be during the race. you get different handling and so on. And thats no good to practise with.

The stuff is live now btw.

Rod Millen took the record in the 2WD class with Jeff zwart 2nd. Jefff was only 3seconds behind.

Rod did a 11.03 i believe. impressive.

Record in the vintage class and the electric class also. the electric car record was faster than the vintage car record.

Edited by MatsNorway, 26 June 2011 - 19:26.


#107 kikiturbo2

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 20:11

The ”unknown” Japanese driver just shattered the record..... 9:51.....

#108 MatsNorway

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 20:14

Tajima took home the victory and the record. 9.51
Rhys lost the brakes but made a time of 1.07
Paul Dallenbach sadly did not start due to mechanical problems.
the Dacia did a 1.17 i believe.
Dave something in the Lancer run off/crashed.

It was quite a few crashes but as long as the cars where not in the way they keept the green flag out as soon as the drivers where safe.

#109 cheapracer

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 11:06

It was quite a few crashes but as long as the cars where not in the way


Meh, just push 'em off the side if they are.

With all respect to him competing, I am quite happy "Cliche" Millen not only came second but failed to break 10 minutes, he should have put his Dad in it.


#110 mariner

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 15:00


Here is some photos from practise and so on.
http://speedhunters....o-the-dust.aspx
http://speedhunters....at-the-top.aspx

What is cool about the photos is how PP is still an old fashoined event in many ways. Guys fixing their hi-tech cars by using road car headlights and flashlights.

Very nice in these " every F3 team has a 60ft trailer/workshop/guest centre" days

#111 cheapracer

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 15:18

the Mountain bites on occasion ....

http://www.streetfir...eak_2276226.htm

#112 carlt

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 17:12

Nice - really like the slow mo. !!!!




and this



What would be the downforce drop off with the change in altitude ?

Edited by carlt, 29 June 2011 - 17:28.


#113 MatsNorway

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 18:09

Onboard with Rhys millen. Is the video lagging? it is here..
http://www.youtube.c...embedded#at=626

Onboard with Tajima
http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

Next year could be with more entrants. The time attack class could explode. and cars like this one could perhaps be entering.
from 1.45

Kinda funny to note that the time attack 2WD class had lower times than the 4WD class.

2WD
1 Rod Millen 11:04.912
2 Jeff Zwart 11:07.869
3 Toshiki Yoshioka 11:33.734

4WD
1 Brianne Corn 11:56.422
2 Robert Thorne 12:00.661
3 Harrad Demuth 12:07.312

Pikes peak Open

1 Randy Schranz 11:55.132
2 Brad Lovell 12:33.609
3 David Cole 13:05.318

The Pikes peak open record is still standing... Per Eklund 11:21.58 set in 2000.

Edited by MatsNorway, 29 June 2011 - 18:25.


#114 nodrift4me

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 23:46

What would be the downforce drop off with the change in altitude ?



You can work it out roughly with this chart.

Posted Image

#115 gruntguru

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 23:58

Unusual presentation with the dependent variable on the x axis.

Downforce will depend on air density which is a function of pressure but also temperature which also usually varies with altitude.



#116 MarkMisegadis

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 00:03

Hello Everyone,

I live in Colorado Springs and have attended and or been involved with the event for a large portion of my life. I see some comments here that I think I can help with. I add a quick reply here on what I recall from scanning this thread.

Race held on the 4th of July - The race has been held on numerous dates throughout the years including Labor Day. (May) The race hasn’t been held on the 4th of July for a very long time. When the Olympic Training Center moved to Colorado Springs there was an Olympic Festival that was held that split the local attendance and hurt the race and that was the initial reason for changing that date. I can’t imagine ever having the race in May as they did in the past as even during June/July we have seen rain/sleet and snow on the same day. In recent years the race was actually shortened to run only to Glen Cove due to Sleet/Snow on the road in the upper elevations of the course.

Asphalt: This has been increased throughout the years with a very large section after Devils Playground to the Summit being paved last year. The remaining dirt section of the course is to be paved this year. There is talk that the race could be moved to later in the year for 2012 due to this.

Speed and the Surface. Asphalt is faster but what I have not seen factored into the opinions here is the fact that the road is much narrower now with the pavement. In many places 50 -60% of the surface has been turned into the drainage control on the sides of the road. This really changes things as you cannot run the same line and straighten out the road as you could in the past. Additionally.. where the road may have been straight, there are places where the asphalt may zig zag for whatever reasons the paving company had in their mind during the paving process. If we were to count the 156 turns today we might come up with a very different number.

History of the Surface: For many years there were asphalt like surfaces that were tested on road. All were similar to a temporary road surface and would develop potholes and were always uneven. The dirt was always much smoother as well as the final version of the asphalt we have today. If you watch Tajima's record setting run on YouTube from this year you will see a section that is still like this right after the dirt that begins immediately after the Picnic Grounds and returns to pavement right before Glen Cove. This was an attempt to appease the naturalists who wanted the road paved without really paving it. It was a good effort but always produced a very poor surface.

Tires – During my lifetime there have been numerous tires used on the mountain with the changes in the surface. The Goodyear Pikes Peak Special was the standard tire for the Stock Car and Open Wheel classes and still is for the other Hill Climbs ran by the CHCA in Colorado. Firestone had a tire for the Peak in the 70’s that had ground up walnut shells in the tread. This year many of the teams ran tires that were suited for asphalt due to the dramatic increase in the pavement. Cars were much slower than usual on the dirt for this reason. We are now at a point where the majority of us that will miss the dirt are ready for them to complete the job so that everyone can get on with a tire choice that will support the surface.

4WD – It is my belief that when the surface is paved the advantage of 4WD will be greatly diminished. We all know that there is added weight with the additional driveline. It also takes more power. The car that I worked on in the past is what I believe a very capable platform for future events. I found this photo on the web at the following link. (That’s me behind the wing)

http://www.subiegal......id donner.jpg

Note Jimmy Olsen in the background with a 4WD Wells Coyote Open Wheel car sporting 4 of those Pikes Peak Specials I mentioned. Yet another formula.

A more recent photo in the final configuration of the Donner Dykstra before the car was crashed at Goodwood.

http://www.flickr.co...loir/196798943/
The tunnels on this car do not share the same space with the wheel opening as they do on Monsters Suzuki and therefore it has much better ground effects. Additionally it was always designed as a ground effects car and did not have them added later as Paul’s car has.

One more thing that you might not be aware of as it has been forgotten by many. The Open Wheel record is still at 10:05. This was set many years ago by Robby Unser. (The Guy who beat Ari on the Peak when they were both in Peugeot 405’s)

A photo of that car can be seen here.

http://www.vintagera...o...&magiid=250

I understand that this car was rebuilt from a Wells car with very little remaining that resembled the original car. There were iterations of the wings that had side plates so large that they were problematic in the wind on the upper portions of the course above tree line. Hole saws were used to cut large diameter circles in them to bleed the air and not allow it to upset the car. Robby always said that he thought a 2WD car could take back the overall record but the weather never cooperated with him to prove that point. A 10:05 against Millen’s Toyota Tacoma 4wd record of 10:04 was very close.

Miscellaneous tidbits:
The race ran very long on Sunday. Bobby Regester’s crash was as bad as they get and resembles Koichi Horiuchi’s from years past for sheer terror points.
Oil cleanup is now an issue and there was a delay in the event while clean up occurred in Boulder Park.
Dallenbach never started the race. I am not sure exactly what happened but I would bet it was related to the engine. Many were disappointed for that team.
Rhys Millen lost his brakes near the top and a great deal of time. Last year the springs were too stiff and the tires too hard so he never had the opportunity to thrash the Hyundai like he did this year.
The Dacia Duster was very promising. A 10:17 after a rapid 5 month build to get it here and the drivers first time on the mountain mean that there will much more expected from them next year.

Tajima’s drive was very clean this year. It shows in his time. Weather or a quick dip into the ditch prevented his success previously. Hats off to this man for his perseverance.
RS200s have never done fantastic on the Peak. They have always had issues. Stig was the last on here in an RS200 and lost his brakes on the way up. This is one of my favorite cars and I think that we have never seen the full potential.
We have seen many Group B era cars and a very many specials throughout the years that are not seen in many other places in the world if at all. I cannot tell you just how fortunate I feel about that. There are no words for it.

Mark Misegadis


#117 gruntguru

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 00:23

:up: Very interesting stuff - thanks Mark.

#118 cheapracer

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 02:50

Hello Everyone,


Thanks for the heads up Mark :up:
http://www.flickr.co...loir/196798943/
Now that's what F1 should be today including LS engines except having absolute flat bottoms (oh and the tyres too!  ;) )

#119 MatsNorway

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 13:45

Thanks Mark.

here is the speedhunter post about pikes peak.
http://speedhunters....pikes-peak.aspx

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#120 MarkMisegadis

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 16:41

Thanks Mark.

here is the speedhunter post about pikes peak.
http://speedhunters....pikes-peak.aspx



Hi Guys, Your welcome on the details. That Speedhunter write up is amazing and the photos fantastic!


Some additional details that come to mind after reviewing that article.


Verdier had the back of his Subaru opened up like a beer can. It was sad to see as he had been doing very well.

Dave Kern was flying up the mountain and very much on his way to a potential win in the class. He finished on 3 tires and you can see the left rear missing in that photo. We talked on the way down. I told him he should be proud of just how good he looked prior to the incident. Where he whacked the rail is actually a place where the drivers would hang a tire in the air off of the edge to set up for the next corner. The rail is really in a poor location and has been there only a couple of years. However for the regular traffic it suits the purpose and so it will be repaired I am sure.

The snow bank seen at 16 Mile is often carved with the names of current or past favorites. Many years the name UNSER can be seen there.

In the BMW 2002 was Mark Visconti. I met Mark at a party for the vintage competitors the day before the race. First time on Pikes Peak.. nice guy and very thrilled just to be here. I was taking photos of the cars as they passed by high fiving the crowd that you see in some of these photos as the cars are coming down after the event. Someone grabbed my hand. It was Mark and you could see in his eyes that this guy had a good day on the mountain.

Davey Schmidt is the driver of the late model yellow #26 Ford Mustang. He was stopped on the way up due to an incident and had to be sent back down to make his run again. We joked that he recieved his "moneys worth" on the entry fee this year!

Keith Davidson in the 1963 Falcon Sprint set a new record with a borrowed engine from Walt and Chip Hayne of EPS. I think he has won all of the Vintage events since they started the class a short time ago. I helped with the final car prep on Saturday afternoon and met Rodney Woolnough and his Son who had been doing all the hard work during the week on their vacation to Pikes Peak from Tasmania. Good folks that enjoy Falcons and were having a great time.

Speaking of Falcons: Ralf Christensson (Sweden) was entered in a 1964 Falcon Sprint. I was looking forward to seeing this car as I am building one of these currently. I am sad to say that the car was stuck in customs and did not make the event. Ralf was able to rent a 1965 Mustang Coupe from Bob Hill who was also entered in another Mustang from his own stable. Ralf should be back next year in his Falcon.

Lauchlin O'Sullivan was a last minute addition as driver to the Hyundai Veloster. Lauchlin (in a 2wd Toyota) was competing as was Rhys Millen and Marcus Dodd in the Global RallyCross at Pikes Peak International Raceway south of Colorado Springs Colorado the weekend before Pikes Peak. Dodd was in the other Veloster and shorted the jump damaging his car and fracturing his C7 vertebrae. Millen blew the engine in the car you see on Mountain and put in his back up. During a test run he promptly filled a cylinder with water and had to pull the engine from Dodds car. He ran this engine and this car for that entire event. Lauchlin flew home to California and later received a call from Rhys to come back to Colo Spgs as Dodd was entered at the Hill Climb and could not compete. Lauchlin flew back to handle the driving duties on this car. It was sad to hear that the transmission did not make it to the top.

A couple of extra tidbits here.. The two Velosters are ex Hyundai Accent WRC cars. Lauchlin and Rhys were team mates driving for Mitsubishi in Evos prepared by Vermont Sportscar when Rally was still with the SCCA in this country.

I hope you all find this additional info enjoyable.

Mark







#121 Tony Matthews

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 17:32

I hope you all find this additional info enjoyable.

Mark

Almost like being there, Mark, thanks!

#122 MatsNorway

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 17:51

Once again thanks.

Next year gonna be great! Paul Dallenbach, Stefan verdier and Jeff zwart for the win!

Edited by MatsNorway, 01 July 2011 - 18:01.


#123 cheapracer

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 03:33

Speaking of Falcons: I am building one of these currently.


Posted Image


Once again thanks.

Next year gonna be great! Paul Dallenbach, Stefan verdier and Jeff zwart for the win!


So you're not going for Tom Smith, Mike Jones or Harry Brown?

Edited by cheapracer, 02 July 2011 - 03:35.


#124 MatsNorway

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 08:54

So you're not going for Tom Smith, Mike Jones or Harry Brown?



Ho are they? what do they normally race? and what cars do they drive?

Posted Image



#125 MatsNorway

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 10:11

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

#126 GeoffR

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 09:57

quote: and met Rodney Woolnough and his Son who had been doing all the hard work during the week on their vacation to Pikes Peak from Tasmania

Tasmanians at Pikes Peak - awesome! Would love to get there one day, been a huge fan since the Mouton/Rohrl/Vatanen days.

PS: Great to see Monster break the 10 min mark.



#127 MatsNorway

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 06:05

Next year we could see some of these cars or at least similar cars entering.

http://speedhunters....e-test-day.aspx

#128 MatsNorway

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 18:25

http://raceenginedes...nic-Beattie.htm

I have been waiting for something like that.

#129 desmo

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 19:46

Looks rather like the original Shadow Can-Am car, albeit lacking a ~7 liter lump in the middle.

#130 carlt

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 21:36

http://raceenginedes...nic-Beattie.htm

I have been waiting for something like that.


It is an amazing experience standing next to this on the start line -

A true Clubmans build - thinking outside the box -
this for me epitomises the British Garagista culture - long may it continue