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GP France (Paul Ricard) in a switch with Belgium (Francorchamps) from 2013? [merged]


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#1 Jedi_F1

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 09:34

In an article that appears today in the Autohebdo Magazine (the french Autosport) and on their website:

http://www.autohebdo...rance-au-ricard

they say that from 2013 a French GP will be back on the Formula 1 calendar,
the Paul Ricard circuit will replace the Belgian GP at Spa-Francorchamps.
Althow with a yearly switch like the Nürnburgring & Hockenheim do for the German GP.

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#2 Rob

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 09:54

I thought that Paul Ricard had all its grandstands demolished years back.

There would be a massive conflict of interest as well, what with Bernie owning the track.

#3 Victor_RO

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 09:56

I thought that Paul Ricard had all its grandstands demolished years back.


There has been some rebuilding of grandstands recently since the track has been used for racing once again by series like the LMS and FIA GT, right now I believe there are grandstands for around 5-10 thousand people.

#4 Jedi_F1

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:02

I thought that Paul Ricard had all its grandstands demolished years back.

There would be a massive conflict of interest as well, what with Bernie owning the track.


Arguments from Autohebdo says:

-The Belgian GP has been lossmaking a few years ago (true but last year was better)
- Some ecologist group is against the Belgian GP (??? don't know where they get that from???)
- TF1 (French broadcaster of the Formula 1 GP's .. like BBC does) refuses to renew their contract with F.O.M because they don't think it isn't intresting anymore because:
a) There's no French GP on the calendar
b) There's at the moment no French GP driver (.. not yet anyway).

Edited by Jedi_F1, 08 June 2011 - 10:03.


#5 phil1993

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:06

Arguments from Autohebdo says:

- Some ecologist group is against the Belgian GP (??? don't know where they get that from???)


Thats been around for ages, at least before 2009 if I remember. I mean it must be horrifying for these people to hear F1 cars for three days a year. I mean when they moved in, they should have expected the circuit just to shut up shop :rolleyes:

#6 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:10

TV ratings should determine that really, and I thought they were still okay in France.

How is it a conflict if Bernie owns the circuit? He'd have to pay himself money, rather than make money from it. And he already owns Turkey, no?

Would French/Belgian GP swap each year then? I didn't understand that bit

#7 Jedi_F1

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:14

Would French/Belgian GP swap each year then? I didn't understand that bit


Yes,
like the Hockenheim & the Nürnburgring do for the German GP,
f.e.:
2013 - France - Paul Ricard
2014 - Belgium - Spa-Francorchamps
2015 - France - Paul Ricard

Autohebdo says this is an exclusive news...
but all we know that Spa-Francorchamps is still in negotations to renew the contract after 2012.

#8 Enkei

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:14

Switch the best F1 track with a Mickey Mouse rainbow track? Way to go :rolleyes:

#9 Rob

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:17

How is it a conflict if Bernie owns the circuit? He'd have to pay himself money, rather than make money from it. And he already owns Turkey, no?


Well he sets the level at which the circuit pays the commercial rights holder doesn't he? He'll be paying CVC, but as he's working for CVC, he could easily set the bar much lower for his own circuit.

I thought he was just the race promoter of Turkey, does he really own the circuit?

#10 Victor_RO

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:21

Switch the best F1 track with a Mickey Mouse rainbow track? Way to go :rolleyes:


Ricard doesn't hold a candle to Spa, but if you disregard the exaggerated run-offs, it's actually a very good track.

#11 Pharazon

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:23

there well be a lof of people very unhappy if there is no spa every year

#12 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:24

Well he sets the level at which the circuit pays the commercial rights holder doesn't he? He'll be paying CVC, but as he's working for CVC, he could easily set the bar much lower for his own circuit.

I thought he was just the race promoter of Turkey, does he really own the circuit?


Promoter or owner, the guy who has to pay surely.

I don't see Bernie selling his own race to himself or 2 quid and a Yorkie bar, because then he/CVC don't get as much. And the other circuits get pissed off. Hed be better off giving the Belgians a discount.

#13 Clatter

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:26

I thought that Paul Ricard had all its grandstands demolished years back.

There would be a massive conflict of interest as well, what with Bernie owning the track.


Grandstands are easy to put in.

#14 dau

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:28

Bad news if it's true, but not really surprising considering Spa's attendance figures.

#15 Clatter

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:29

Thats been around for ages, at least before 2009 if I remember. I mean it must be horrifying for these people to hear F1 cars for three days a year. I mean when they moved in, they should have expected the circuit just to shut up shop :rolleyes:


That's nothing new. Tracks over here IE Brands Batch have suffered for years with new housing being built nearby and people moving in and complaining. Unfortunately they often win as well. Commonsense doesn't seem to prevail.

#16 Rob

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:35

That's nothing new. Tracks over here IE Brands Batch have suffered for years with new housing being built nearby and people moving in and complaining. Unfortunately they often win as well. Commonsense doesn't seem to prevail.


I think most circuits are suffering with it. Croft, Snetterton, Castle Combe to name a few.

#17 Clatter

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:39

I think most circuits are suffering with it. Croft, Snetterton, Castle Combe to name a few.


It's happening everywhere. Flying clubs that were origionally in the middle of nowhere are having to curtail their activites, even farmers can't go about their business because of complaints. It's ridiculous that our legal system entertains these people.

#18 Fabien Pousset

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:58

TV ratings should determine that really, and I thought they were still okay in France.

How is it a conflict if Bernie owns the circuit? He'd have to pay himself money, rather than make money from it. And he already owns Turkey, no?

Would French/Belgian GP swap each year then? I didn't understand that bit


They're not. The reality of Formula One's popularity in France is that the ratings went from 8-10 millions in the 80's to about 3m nowadays, with coverage of the races in other medias (news channels and such) having been reduced to a mere few seconds.
Renault's titles back in 2005 - 2006 were the swan song for F1 in France. With no french driver, no GP, and no team, F1 gets lower ratings than a re-run of a bad 20 year-old american show.

Back at the end of 2002, TF1 already nearly dropped F1. It eventually got -50% on the price for the renewal, which ends this year.

So it has all but been confirmed that F1 will move to either another free terrestrial channel (M6), or to pay TV (Canal +).




#19 PayasYouRace

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 11:01

Having Spa once every two years wouldn't be as good as having it every year like it should be. Then again, having a French and a Belgian GP is better than having neither at all.

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#20 Tsarwash

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 11:08

Just to take an instance, people who decide to buy a house immediately next door to an existing pub, (that has in all liklihood been trading for over a hundred years,) and then put complaints in about general pub noise, I would like to make an example of. I would do this by making each large city construct a trebuchet, and once a year pick one complianee at random and attach them to said medieval device. In the interests of compassion I would allow their family the choice of where they would wish their loved one to be flung.

I despise this petty attitude of wanting to stop others from having fun, just because it makes a bit of noise. I don't complain about your screaming baby in cafes and restaurants* which is the biologically the worst noise that a human can hear.




* actually I do.

#21 Jedi_F1

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 11:36

Bad news if it's true, but not really surprising considering Spa's attendance figures.


Actually they're not that bad,
specially last year was a little " :up: "
but not compared what it used to be before 2006 and the years when tobacco sponsoring was behind the publicity of the GP when we saw everywhere in the country posters for the GP.

But a solid attendance figure doesn't allways means you will make profit...

Edited by Jedi_F1, 08 June 2011 - 11:38.


#22 Red17

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 12:18

This is a sweet irony considering how much the french love to pick at the belgiuns.

So that means the 100 possible new locations/renovations in France have failed? At least Paul Ricard has some history.

#23 teejay

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 13:02

There has been some rebuilding of grandstands recently since the track has been used for racing once again by series like the LMS and FIA GT, right now I believe there are grandstands for around 5-10 thousand people.


Seems like the perfect number of seats if we move the track to Turkey.

#24 tifosiMac

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 13:16

Spa is by far the best track on the calendar and a favourite of the drivers. Surely they could have dropped one of the Spanish tracks as we don't need two and make Paul Ricard the European GP.

#25 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 13:50

That's not how it works. It's about who can pay the bills. If the drivers like it so much let them donate to the race hosting fee.

#26 tifosiMac

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 13:53

I'm well aware of how it works thanks. :)

#27 D.M.N.

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 13:54

Don't want F1 racing on a car park thanks.

#28 Rob

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 14:22

Don't want F1 racing on a car park thanks.


Paul Ricard's a great track and definitely isn't a car park. The stupid painted asphalt should go, but the track itself is fine.

#29 D.M.N.

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 14:26

Paul Ricard's a great track and definitely isn't a car park. The stupid painted asphalt should go, but the track itself is fine.


Oh, yeah but the track is fine, but the outside is not.

#30 muramasa

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 14:36

I dont mind Paul Ricard or whatever circuit but F1 simply cannot lose Spa.



#31 Don_Humpador

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 14:38

One word.

Sprinklers.;)

#32 johnmhinds

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 14:42

Promoter or owner, the guy who has to pay surely.

I don't see Bernie selling his own race to himself or 2 quid and a Yorkie bar, because then he/CVC don't get as much. And the other circuits get pissed off. Hed be better off giving the Belgians a discount.


Isn't Bernie the promoter for Spa anyway?

So he isn't going to be losing anything by switching it with another track he promotes.

#33 Fastcake

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 15:13

I'm not quite sure how all the deals Bernie has with various Grand Prix work, but as I understand it Bernie holds up the financial risk of the race, then the actual promotors in the country pay him the fees. In Turkey, I believe he owns Istanbul Park, and the Turks do the actual "promoting", albeit completely failing at doing a good job.

#34 Chezrome

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 15:16


What happened to the Disney Land idea for a track? That would have been awesome (any Grand Prix in Paris, actually!)



#35 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 16:05

It's going to be part of a City F1 championship along with Hyde Park and NYC.

#36 Red17

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 16:14

It's going to be part of a City F1 championship along with Hyde Park and NYC.

You forgot Rome.

#37 montoyasminion

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 16:23

Spa is by far the best track on the calendar and a favourite of the drivers. Surely they could have dropped one of the Spanish tracks as we don't need two and make Paul Ricard the European GP.

This is what I was thinking. Dump Valencia and have Speilberg and Paul Ricard alternate as the Euro GP.

#38 Sakae

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 16:28

Promoter or owner, the guy who has to pay surely.

I don't see Bernie selling his own race to himself or 2 quid and a Yorkie bar, because then he/CVC don't get as much. And the other circuits get pissed off. Hed be better off giving the Belgians a discount.



Surely he could do promoter's work for once, and collect pay-out, instead collecting money from promoters and do nothing. Problem is, he is not going to do it, because he would loose money as being the active promoter of a race.

#39 SCUDmissile

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 17:06

Spa has a new sponsor in Shell, so i think it is more financially secure than before. i hope so.

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#40 zarooch

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 17:17

well don't know abt paul ricard. but i'd love to see magny course back just love the track don't udnerstand why it was dropped in the first place.
now switching with spa? ermmm well it could work out but... why can't they keep the tracks and switch with the new ones? :/

#41 KnuX

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 17:20

I'm not sure why F1 has circuit fees at all. It is incredibly illogical - you provide a venue, AND you pay for it? Is that model used anywhere else at all!?

Actually I know the answer as to why: Bernie sells 'prestige' because governments are willing to make a loss to gain some. And when they've had enough, we are on the verge of losing great circuits like Spa.

The F1 Corporation, or however it is called, is simply a giant leech on the sport, namely the teams, the circuits and the fans. A breakaway FOTA-owned series needs to happen.

#42 BigCHrome

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 18:06

Switch the best F1 track with a Mickey Mouse rainbow track? Way to go :rolleyes:


Thats pretty much what F1 has been doing for the last 5 years.

Making the series worse. :down:

#43 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 18:08

Well MotoGP works the same way. Dorna keeps the trackside and TV money. Tracks pay a hosting fee and then keep their ticket money.

The thing is a MotoGP race pays like 2.5m a year and an F1 race 25mil. But both tracks hold 100,000 people. So at Barcelona the F1 promoter is like "uh, we still owe money" and the MotoGP people are like "sweet, lets buy a case of beer with our profit"


#44 Fastcake

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 18:09

The F1 Corporation, or however it is called, is simply a giant leech on the sport, namely the teams, the circuits and the fans. A breakaway FOTA-owned series needs to happen.


So the teams (or their shareholders) can take all the cash instead?

#45 BigCHrome

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 18:14

That's not how it works. It's about who can pay the bills. If the drivers like it so much let them donate to the race hosting fee.


So how can the Spanish pay for them? Their economy isn't exactly booming.

#46 midgrid

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 18:19

Belgium his taken almost a full year now to form a new government - perhaps in the future we will see the race alternating between Spa (Walloon Grand Prix) and Zolder (Flemish Grand Prix)? :drunk:

#47 Dolph

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 18:34

TV ratings should determine that really, and I thought they were still okay in France.

How is it a conflict if Bernie owns the circuit? He'd have to pay himself money, rather than make money from it. And he already owns Turkey, no?

Would French/Belgian GP swap each year then? I didn't understand that bit


Please google conflict of interest

#48 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 18:38

It really isn't, he's just taking money out of one of his pockets and putting it into his other pocket. He doesn't make any more money than he would normally. Though I suppose he could raise the sanction fee on races he promotes/owns and shift the cost to the spectators. But he could do that with any track because he gets the host fee anyways.

#49 santori

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 18:56

Belgium his taken almost a full year now to form a new government - perhaps in the future we will see the race alternating between Spa (Walloon Grand Prix) and Zolder (Flemish Grand Prix)? :drunk:


I was thinking more that they were anticipating Wallonia joining France, but yes, along those sort of lines.

#50 Jedi_F1

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 18:58

Belgium his taken almost a full year now to form a new government - perhaps in the future we will see the race alternating between Spa (Walloon Grand Prix) and Zolder (Flemish Grand Prix)? :drunk:

No thank you! ):