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Canada GP 2011 - Saturday Thread


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#1 D.M.N.

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 10:30

Should be an interesting day, for those in the UK:

- Practice 3 @ 15:00
- Qualifying @ 18:00 (BBC coverage begins @ 17:15)

And the rainfall radar which will need to be used towards Qualifying I think: http://www.weatherof...x_e.html?id=wmn

If I was a betting man, I would still predict a Red Bull to pull something off. Even though its their weakest circuit, I would be surprised if at least one Red Bull is on the front row. Intrigued as well to see how strong the Mercedes are - hopefully they mix up things.

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#2 ForzaGTR

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 10:44

Should be an interesting day, for those in the UK:

- Practice 3 @ 15:00
- Qualifying @ 18:00 (BBC coverage begins @ 17:15)

And the rainfall radar which will need to be used towards Qualifying I think: http://www.weatherof...x_e.html?id=wmn

If I was a betting man, I would still predict a Red Bull to pull something off. Even though its their weakest circuit, I would be surprised if at least one Red Bull is on the front row. Intrigued as well to see how strong the Mercedes are - hopefully they mix up things.


I agree with you, I fully expect RB to be on pole. This is apparently RB's weakest circuit yet but at their weakest it is still likely they will be on the front row at minimum. They seem to have brought a few big upgrades too. For the good of the championship, I hope Vettel has an DNF on Sunday.

#3 Don_Humpador

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 10:50

Weather Underground says 40% chance of rain today, 80% tomorrow.

http://www.wundergro...ions/71627.html

Edited by Don_Humpador, 11 June 2011 - 10:50.


#4 Kelateboy

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 10:56

I agree with you, I fully expect RB to be on pole. This is apparently RB's weakest circuit yet but at their weakest it is still likely they will be on the front row at minimum. They seem to have brought a few big upgrades too. For the good of the championship, I hope Vettel has an DNF on Sunday.

Vettel will be on the front row, either with Webber or Hamilton. At least that is my prediction for today's qualifying.


#5 Kelateboy

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 10:57

Weather Underground says 40% chance of rain today, 80% tomorrow.

http://www.wundergro...ions/71627.html

A wet race tomorrow?

I don't think Pirelli's wet weather tyres have ever been tested on any circuit this year.

#6 sv401

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 11:04

I don't think Pirelli's wet weather tyres have ever been tested on any circuit this year.


Hopefully it does not mean there will be Korea-like delayed race / SC start / lots of laps behind SC / red flags :well:

Edited by sv401, 11 June 2011 - 11:07.


#7 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 11:09

A wet race tomorrow?

I don't think Pirelli's wet weather tyres have ever been tested on any circuit this year.


Wrong. Turkey FP1. Also they had some unexpected wet weather testing at Turkey during a scheduled Pirelli test, and had a small amount of running in the final couple of days of pre season testing.

#8 muramasa

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 11:09

Canada and rain? That's quite a combination. :drunk:

#9 Kelateboy

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 11:23

Wrong. Turkey FP1. Also they had some unexpected wet weather testing at Turkey during a scheduled Pirelli test, and had a small amount of running in the final couple of days of pre season testing.

I meant wet weather tyres in the race. I was referring to the possible rain tomorrow, and not during free practices.

#10 joshb

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 11:26

When was the last gp affected by rain in canada, 2000?? or have we haid rain is qualy/practises since?
As for qualy today I'll say Vettel from Hamilton, just about but maybe a different result in the race

Edited by joshb, 11 June 2011 - 11:27.


#11 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 11:28

When was the last gp affected by rain in canada, 2000?? or have we haid rain is qualy/practises since?
As for qualy today I'll say Vettel from Hamilton, just about but maybe a different result in the race


In the race, yes, 2000. As for quali, I think it's been dry in quali there for the last 15 years at least maybe. Think in the last few years we've had the occasional wet/damp practice session.

#12 scheivlak

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 11:48

In 2003 there was a wet Friday Q session (you had two Q sessions that year).

#13 Dunder

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 11:52

Current forecast appears to show showers for FP3 and the same for qualifying.

With a high likelihood of a mixed conditions race for tomorrow, setups are likely to be compromises.

#14 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 11:58

Current forecast appears to show showers for FP3 and the same for qualifying.

With a high likelihood of a mixed conditions race for tomorrow, setups are likely to be compromises.


I think that's pretty accurate certainly in terms of setup. It seems uncertain as to what the weather will do tomorrow. Will it be dry at the start and wet later on? Will it start wet and dry out? Will it stay fully dry? Will it stay fully wet? Will it fluctuate between dry, damp, and wet? Impossible to know, and that, along with the uncertainty regarding the forecast for quali means setup is going to be a mix of compromises.

#15 D.M.N.

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 11:59

Already 8am local time, and in the words of Will Buxton, "the skies don't look too happy". For anyone tracking the radar there's a swath of rain to the south of Montreal. You can see it a bit on the main radar for Canada here just above Toronto and tracking towards Montreal. Not sure if that'll fizzle out or if there's more behind it.

#16 baddog

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:00

I hope not, this is a horrible rain circuit. Dry its a lot of fun.

#17 Dunder

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:04

I hope not, this is a horrible rain circuit. Dry its a lot of fun.


I agree, I would prefer it to stay dry.
What will be will be though and they will just have to make the best of it.


#18 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:06

Worth remembering that if it rains today or tomorrow, the DRS system is disabled.

#19 ashnathan

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:11

Worth remembering that if it rains today or tomorrow, the DRS system is disabled.

Disadvantage Red Bull

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#20 Dunder

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:13

Worth remembering that if it rains today or tomorrow, the DRS system is disabled.


Also that gear ratios were declared and after FP2 and are now fixed/locked.


#21 Dunder

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:16

Disadvantage Red Bull


At a 'normal' track yes but not here. There are no fast corners here where they could get on the power and open the flap significantly earlier than anyone else.


#22 Kelateboy

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:17

At a 'normal' track yes but not here. There are no fast corners here where they could get on the power and open the flap significantly earlier than anyone else.

If it rains, you can't open the flap.

#23 Dunder

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:24

If it rains, you can't open the flap.


Try to keep up!


#24 ashnathan

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:31

At a 'normal' track yes but not here. There are no fast corners here where they could get on the power and open the flap significantly earlier than anyone else.

It doesn't matter, the Red Bull is a draggy car and without DRS will be a sitting duck. Id be willing to put money on it that when DRS is inactive most cars would be faster than the Bulls on the straights.

#25 as65p

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:33

I agree, I would prefer it to stay dry.


Agreed, but only for the single reason that if wet I fear race control making a wimpy mess of it again with delays and many laps behind the SC.

It should be remembered that there were two wet races in '89 and '90 who run perfectly fine.. Walls or not, it should be possible to race in the rain here without too much drama.

#26 Kelateboy

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:35

It doesn't matter, the Red Bull is a draggy car and without DRS will be a sitting duck. Id be willing to put money on it that when DRS is inactive most cars would be faster than the Bulls on the straights.

This is the speed trap figures from FP2.

Speed trap
# Driver Car Engine Max speed Gap
1 14 Adrian Sutil Force India Mercedes 329.7
2 10 Vitaly Petrov Renault Renault 328.7 1
3 9 Nick Heidfeld Renault Renault 328.5 1.2
4 11 Rubens Barrichello Williams Cosworth 328.5 1.2
5 12 Pastor Maldonado Williams Cosworth 328.1 1.6
6 15 Paul di Resta Force India Mercedes 326.4 3.3
7 17 Pedro de la Rosa Sauber Ferrari 324.6 5.1
8 18 Sebastien Buemi Toro Rosso Ferrari 324.1 5.6
9 19 Jaime Alguersuari Toro Rosso Ferrari 323.5 6.2
10 7 Michael Schumacher Mercedes Mercedes 323.1 6.6
11 5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari Ferrari 321.1 8.6
12 6 Felipe Massa Ferrari Ferrari 320.8 8.9
13 21 Jarno Trulli Lotus Renault 320.5 9.2
14 1 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Renault 320.5 9.2
15 2 Mark Webber Red Bull Renault 320.5 9.2
16 4 Jenson Button McLaren Mercedes 320 9.7
17 24 Timo Glock Virgin Cosworth 319.3 10.4
18 20 Heikki Kovalainen Lotus Renault 319.2 10.5
19 3 Lewis Hamilton McLaren Mercedes 318.7 11
20 22 Narain Karthikeyan HRT Cosworth 317.9 11.8
21 23 Vitantonio Liuzzi HRT Cosworth 317.7 12
22 8 Nico Rosberg Mercedes Mercedes 317.1 12.6
23 16 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber Ferrari 316.3 13.4
24 25 Jerome d’Ambrosio Virgin Cosworth 314.5 15.2

Make your own conclusions from the figure. But it is interesting to note that Hamilton speed was 19th fastest at 318.7km/hr. It will change in FP3 but I am surprised to see McLaren are very low down the list.

#27 King Six

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:35

Agreed, but only for the single reason that if wet I fear race control making a wimpy mess of it again with delays and many laps behind the SC.

It should be remembered that there were two wet races in '89 and '90 who run perfectly fine.. Walls or not, it should be possible to race in the rain here without too much drama.



That's true, I forgot they don't really race or even run in the wet anymore!

Edited by King Six, 11 June 2011 - 12:35.


#28 ashnathan

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:37

This is the speed trap figures from FP2.

Speed trap
# Driver Car Engine Max speed Gap
1 14 Adrian Sutil Force India Mercedes 329.7
2 10 Vitaly Petrov Renault Renault 328.7 1
3 9 Nick Heidfeld Renault Renault 328.5 1.2
4 11 Rubens Barrichello Williams Cosworth 328.5 1.2
5 12 Pastor Maldonado Williams Cosworth 328.1 1.6
6 15 Paul di Resta Force India Mercedes 326.4 3.3
7 17 Pedro de la Rosa Sauber Ferrari 324.6 5.1
8 18 Sebastien Buemi Toro Rosso Ferrari 324.1 5.6
9 19 Jaime Alguersuari Toro Rosso Ferrari 323.5 6.2
10 7 Michael Schumacher Mercedes Mercedes 323.1 6.6
11 5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari Ferrari 321.1 8.6
12 6 Felipe Massa Ferrari Ferrari 320.8 8.9
13 21 Jarno Trulli Lotus Renault 320.5 9.2
14 1 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Renault 320.5 9.2
15 2 Mark Webber Red Bull Renault 320.5 9.2
16 4 Jenson Button McLaren Mercedes 320 9.7
17 24 Timo Glock Virgin Cosworth 319.3 10.4
18 20 Heikki Kovalainen Lotus Renault 319.2 10.5
19 3 Lewis Hamilton McLaren Mercedes 318.7 11
20 22 Narain Karthikeyan HRT Cosworth 317.9 11.8
21 23 Vitantonio Liuzzi HRT Cosworth 317.7 12
22 8 Nico Rosberg Mercedes Mercedes 317.1 12.6
23 16 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber Ferrari 316.3 13.4
24 25 Jerome d’Ambrosio Virgin Cosworth 314.5 15.2

Make your own conclusions from the figure. But it is interesting to note that Hamilton speed was 19th fastest at 318.7km/hr. It will change in FP3 but I am surprised to see McLaren are very low down the list.


That list does nothing because those speeds are using DRS. Im talking without using DRS I think the McLaren would be faster in a straight line than Red Bull, as most other cars would be for that matter. They gain ALOT from their DRS.


#29 Anomnader

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:38

This is the speed trap figures from FP2.

Speed trap


Make your own conclusions from the figure. But it is interesting to note that Hamilton speed was 19th fastest at 318.7km/hr. It will change in FP3 but I am surprised to see McLaren are very low down the list.



Unless they are setting up for rain? risky.

#30 Kelateboy

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:38

Try to keep up!

Disadvantage Red Bull was in reference to a wet setting where DRS could not be used. I assume when you said "open the flap", you are referring to the DRS system. Am I missing something? :confused:

#31 Dunder

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:39

It doesn't matter, the Red Bull is a draggy car and without DRS will be a sitting duck. Id be willing to put money on it that when DRS is inactive most cars would be faster than the Bulls on the straights.


Red Bull, Ferrari and McLaren all have similar top speeds in FP2.
What makes you think that RBR are gaining more in terms of top speed from DRS than the others? If anything it looks to be the opposite to me, Webber was bouncing off the limiter with DRS enabled at the end of the back straight.

#32 Zava

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:41

It doesn't matter, the Red Bull is a draggy car and without DRS will be a sitting duck. Id be willing to put money on it that when DRS is inactive most cars would be faster than the Bulls on the straights.

LOL :rotfl:
if they cannot use DRS is an advantage for red bull, because only the attacker can use DRS. without DRS, red bull (or anyone else) is not a sitting duck compared to "with DRS".
you got it really wrong dude :D

#33 Dan333SP

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:42

Sitting having breakfast at my hotel in old Montreal getting ready to head to fp3 and the skies look sullen if not on the verge of rain. My phone's radar map shows rain south of us in New York but only a 30% chance here... We shall see, I predict Alonso on pole!

#34 Dunder

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:42

Disadvantage Red Bull was in reference to a wet setting where DRS could not be used. I assume when you said "open the flap", you are referring to the DRS system. Am I missing something? :confused:


Yes but nvm.


#35 ashnathan

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:42

The Red Bull generates more downforce than the other cars. Last year, without bringing F-Ducts into it, they were consistently slower than all other cars. And without DRS this year I feel its the same. I think the Red Bull generates more drag with their better downforce. With DRS enabled this helps them alot.

#36 ATM_Andy

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:44

Pretty grim in Montreal

#37 ferrarijon123

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:46

Pretty grim in Montreal

Could you tell us what the radars telling you andy?

Edited by ferrarijon123, 11 June 2011 - 12:47.


#38 Dunder

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:49

The Red Bull generates more downforce than the other cars. Last year, without bringing F-Ducts into it, they were consistently slower than all other cars. And without DRS this year I feel its the same. I think the Red Bull generates more drag with their better downforce. With DRS enabled this helps them alot.


The downforce advantage that RBR enjoys (and that leads to the car being inherently draggy) is not because of its rear wing.
DRS only sheds drag produced by the rear wing.

DRS helps everyone reduce drag levels but, again, what makes you think that RBR gains more in terms of top speed than the others?


#39 111griff111

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:51

no rain for sure today, winds are down , nothing going to move in until this evening. I live close to Montreal, was suppose to be raining but I am on my way to sons soccer game. Very cool though which should benefit the overheating Mercedes. Jenson was right

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#40 D.M.N.

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:52

NobleF1
The skies are much gloomier at the track than they are in town. Let's see when these storms blow in
1 minute ago

Looks like 'when', not 'if'...

EDIT: More intense showers appearing at bottom of radar now: http://www.weatherof...x_e.html?id=wmn

Edited by D.M.N., 11 June 2011 - 12:53.


#41 Kvothe

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:58

Pretty grim in Montreal


Looking like its going to be a bit of a lottery.

#42 puxanando

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 13:05

Looking like its going to be a bit of a lottery.

:) Hoping Alonso will get a good lot!

#43 Kvothe

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 13:08

:) Hoping Alonso will get a good lot!


As long as Lewis is on top, the more drivers between him and Vettel the better ;)

#44 D.M.N.

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 13:21

Think rain will hit either towards end of FP3 or in the break before Qualifying.

#45 RC127

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 13:28

Closest traffic cam to the circuit (Point Victoria bridge over the St Lawrence River).

http://www.quebec511...era.asp?id=2105

#46 Lazy

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 13:31

LOL :rotfl:
if they cannot use DRS is an advantage for red bull, because only the attacker can use DRS. without DRS, red bull (or anyone else) is not a sitting duck compared to "with DRS".
you got it really wrong dude :D


I think you missed the point.

#47 phil1993

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 13:50

Lotus say rain will not arrive until after qualifying

#48 Flamini

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 14:04

No rain, please.

#49 Button fanatic

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 14:11

any link available?

#50 Seanspeed

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 14:11

Alonso's got more important things to do?