53 replies to this topic

[Orson]

Hi all.

I am researching for the 1971 Race of the Year battle at Mallory Park between John Cooper and Ago.

All I can find online is that it was a thrilling race with Cooper catching and passing Ago on the last lap to win by less than a second.

Can anyone provide a bit more detail?

Cheers

[tonyed]

Hi all.

I am researching for the 1971 Race of the Year battle at Mallory Park between John Cooper and Ago.

All I can find online is that it was a thrilling race with Cooper catching and passing Ago on the last lap to win by less than a second.

Can anyone provide a bit more detail?

Cheers

Loke many others I was there and still have the program.

I was down near the entrance to Gerrads and did not see the famous slide Cooper got through the Lake Esses. But Cooper beat him fare and square that day.

[philippe7]

Well, what about the brilliant Hemeyla website we were just discussing in the "Saksono" thread....

Ok, it's in Dutch, but it's a start ....and the pages are fairly heavy, so allow them time to load properly if you got a slowish connection

http://www.motorrace...ace-of-the-year

[Herr Wankel]

Loke many others I was there and still have the program.

I was down near the entrance to Gerrads and did not see the famous slide Cooper got through the Lake Esses. But Cooper beat him fare and square that day.

I was at the 'Elbow' and a massive OOOOOH !! went up from the crowd as old Wadder was thrown out of the seat.I think 2 laps later he was in front of Ago.It must have focused him somewhat.

HW

[Orson]

Well, what about the brilliant Hemeyla website we were just discussing in the "Saksono" thread....

Ok, it's in Dutch, but it's a start ....and the pages are fairly heavy, so allow them time to load properly if you got a slowish connection

http://www.motorrace...ace-of-the-year

Thanks!

A race report is just what I was looking for.

[fastfitter]

Myself and two mates walked to Mallory from Melbourne on the Saturday afternoon, about 20 miles, and kipped in the car park. We set off hitching but even I wouldn't have stopped for us

Stood on the exit from Gerrards and saw JC out of the seat in the Esses. Got sunburn and a sore throat from cheering.

[greg1953]

I rode to Mallory from Durham on my Suzuki T200 Invader with a mate on his Triumph 500 and believe it or not we had no breakdowns. I watched the big race from the hairpin standing on my helmet to see over the huge crowd.
I'd lost my mate in the crush and found out later that he'd given up trying to see and spent most of the day sat on his bike in the car park.
The race between Ago & Coop was superb but so were the other races of the day, my memories of the works MV, BSA's & Triumphs on open pipes will live forever.
It took us untill 02:00 to get home, a great day out.

[Classicpics]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Probably the most remembered race at Mallory.

I watched from the inside of the Esses, only a few yards from the famous slide, it certainly focused my mind, John always looked on the limit, Ago just didn't have the power to get passed the triple, and he was chasing a world championship. So perhaps second and race another day was his best option. I'm sure he tried hard and it certainly entertained the massive crowd.

Wonder when we last saw a world champion race at Mallory, Race of the Year, Post TT we had world champions in most classes year after year. come to think of it we would see GP riders at most meeting . What went wrong. Money is my guess, would Stoner do the Race of the Year for £1K, I think not. AND they spoil the bloody track!

[GD66]

Thanks CP, once again we are indepted to you for artfully capturing an historical moment of our passion in monochrome. This was the kind of race that can become mythical by word of mouth, and the passing of time, but this one was a ripper from day 1, and has never retreated from the absolute front line of legendary one-on-one, cut-and-thrust battles. Both protagonists remember the event clearly, yet both have a differing perspective and a tale to tell from this landmark day. To those who were there, the rest of us are all jealous !

[picblanc]

Indeed Glenn, great photo & story.
This weekend is the supposed Race of the Year, its got a couple of BSB guys & I believe Sam Lowes & James Ellison from WSS, but the continental riders dont need to do these races anymore so as much as it would be great to have a couple of MotoGP bikes or Moto2 or even a couple of Harris 500 twostrokes line up, really the "Race of the Year" now is name only.

[philippe7]

I was only 14 at the time, but I do remember the headlines in the weekly motorcycle press in France : "Ago was beaten " .... that seemed so incredible at the time, considering his domination in the Grand Prix, that nobody really cared to look into the particulars of the situation ( 750 vs 500, Cooper's knowledge of the track, Ago's determination level vs Coop's, etc... ) the only thing really was : Ago FINALLY got beaten by someone. And for some reason that defeat got a huge feedback, I'm sure though that before then Ago had already been "beaten" a couple of times - Renzo springs to mind - but it didn't make the headlines for whatever reason.

Anyway, this Mr Cooper that nobody knew about in France got his first step to gallic fame then, and his second step was when he beat the Yanks at Ontario a few weeks later- and there again, nobody really cared about the particulars of this (if I may permit myself) "lucky" win - ( "turn 9 disaster" that wiped all the frontrunners off on an oil patch, Romero's broken throttle cable , Carruthers bogged by backmarkers on the last lap ...) Cooper had won in the States, period...

[Classicpics]

Indeed Glenn, great photo & story.
This weekend is the supposed Race of the Year, its got a couple of BSB guys & I believe Sam Lowes & James Ellison from WSS, but the continental riders dont need to do these races anymore so as much as it would be great to have a couple of MotoGP bikes or Moto2 or even a couple of Harris 500 twostrokes line up, really the "Race of the Year" now is name only.

When you look back at the winners they were world class riders, Surtees, Macintyre, Hailwood etc and the best thing was they all gathered at the club house for a pint or three and had fun. And you could go along and join them. Cooper burning a hole in the bottom of a plastic pint pot with a cigar then going for a refill and talking to John one of the staff as he filled it or so he thought until his feet got wet!!

Do they know how to mix and have fun after a GP or am I just and old **** wallowing in nostalga?

[Rennmax]

I was only 14 at the time, but I do remember the headlines in the weekly motorcycle press in France : "Ago was beaten " .... that seemed so incredible at the time, considering his domination in the Grand Prix, that nobody really cared to look into the particulars of the situation ( 750 vs 500, Cooper's knowledge of the track, Ago's determination level vs Coop's, etc... ) the only thing really was : Ago FINALLY got beaten by someone. And for some reason that defeat got a huge feedback, I'm sure though that before then Ago had already been "beaten" a couple of times - Renzo springs to mind - but it didn't make the headlines for whatever reason.

I faintly remember that Rod Gould won a Post TT race at Mallory in front of Ago as did Derek Chatterton at Cadwell Park, both were 350 cc races. Can anyone confirm and possibly provide the respective dates? Thanks

Edit: and didn't Cooper beat Ago again in the race of the south at Brands a couple of weeks later ?

Edited by Rennmax, 25 June 2011 - 10:40.

[Classicpics]

I faintly remember that Rod Gould won a Post TT race at Mallory in front of Ago as did Derek Chatterton at Cadwell Park, both were 350 cc races. Can anyone confirm and possibly provide the respective dates? Thanks

Edit: and didn't Cooper beat Ago again in the race of the south at Brands a couple of weeks later ?

http://www.vintagebi...ries/videos.php

[Robin127]

I faintly remember that Rod Gould won a Post TT race at Mallory in front of Ago as did Derek Chatterton at Cadwell Park, both were 350 cc races. Can anyone confirm and possibly provide the respective dates? Thanks

Edit: and didn't Cooper beat Ago again in the race of the south at Brands a couple of weeks later ?

Yes, Cooper beat Ago in the Race of the South that year. If I remember correctly Ago got beaten into 4th at Cadwell that season as well and I think it was Paul Cott who won the race.

[philippe7]

While searching for Race of the Year info on the excellent aforementioned HEMEYLA website, I was stunned by the picture below which is from the start of the following year's edition, famously won by Jarno Saarinen , another stepping stone in that 1972 season that saw his rise to international stardom. There's somebody on that grid that I never knew was there ( and on unusual machinery too....)

[GD66]

Are you referring to Don Emde on the Gus Kuhn Commando, or Gary Nixon on Sheeney's spare 350 Yamaha, Philippe ?

[fil2.8]

or , perhaps the Harley jockey ??

[exclubracer]

or , perhaps the Harley jockey ??

Have you lot all been rooting about in the loft again?

[fil2.8]

Have you lot all been rooting about in the loft again? ;)

no , Mick , I was there , but do not have the proggie , I must pm you at some stage , sorry , matey

[philippe7]

Are you referring to Don Emde on the Gus Kuhn Commando, or Gary Nixon on Sheeney's spare 350 Yamaha, Philippe ?

Actually, I was thinking of Gary on the Sheene spare Yamaha. I assume Nixon's Hansen Kawasaki ran into some trouble in practice or the heat races ? Don't you just love the way the turned the "8" number plate of Barry's bike into a 9 by just chopping off a bit of the decal ?

Another unusual thing that I noticed in the race report is that Copper was riding a Triumph branded bike in the final, not a BSA.....

[picblanc]

Sad how Motorcycle racing has turned out really, & I dont think its because I/we are old gits looking at things through rose tinted spectacles.

[kerrowmoar]

Sad how Motorcycle racing has turned out really, & I dont think its because I/we are old gits looking at things through rose tinted spectacles.

Dont worry PB, when fil 2.8 finally gets his wallet out and starts spending his millions the economy will recover and we will have full GP grids again.

The TT this year was megga and BSB is still strong (so long as you like proddie bikes).....and id love to see Moto GPs Race directions reaction to some of the overtaking manouvres at Brands at Bemsee meetings in the 80s (or probably any era).

Failing that we could always watch something really interesting like..............................NASCAR?????????????????????????

Anyone going to Brands for the CRMC meeting in a couple o weeks?

[fil2.8]

Anyone going to Brands for the CRMC meeting in a couple o weeks?

Yes .....................................( mines a pint , please )

Edited by fil2.8, 26 June 2011 - 12:16.

[Herr Wankel]

Been looking for this one for ages.Courtesy of MCN I think



HW

[Paul Collins]

Yes, Cooper beat Ago in the Race of the South that year. If I remember correctly Ago got beaten into 4th at Cadwell that season as well and I think it was Paul Cott who won the race.

Ago was beaten back to 4th place at Cadwell in a 350 race by 1) Paul Smart 2) Tony Rutter 3) Derek Chatterton, later that year and I think just before the race of the year he was beaten again at Cadwell, this time on the 500, finishing second to Chatterton on his 350 Yamaha, I saw that one from Park Corner and witnessed Derek make the pass coming out of Charlies.

When I went to the paddock after that race the MV mechanics had a volt meter on the MV battery and the official story was that Ago had developed a misfire due to a flat battery, but I always wondered about the truth of that, I remember the mechanics did the same battery test with that meter over and over again as I stood watching for about 20 minutes, I may be cynical but it was as though they wanted to make sure as many people as possible saw what they were doing to convince the crowd Ago had a machine problem, after all he'd just been beaten by a national privateer on a TR2B

Edited by Paul Collins, 26 June 2011 - 21:26.

[cheapracer]

after all he'd just been beaten by a national privateer on a TR2B

Well at the end of the day it's still Ago and who?

[Classicpics]

Well at the end of the day it's still Ago and who?

That's no fair, John Cooper still lives in Derby has an interest in Bikes, he's a grand chap.

He will be at Mallory in July, where he is part of the history of this once great track, never to be forgotten, and AGO, we share the same birthday so I at least will remember him....

[Rennmax]

Ago was beaten back to 4th place at Cadwell in a 350 race by 1) Paul Smart 2) Tony Rutter 3) Derek Chatterton, later that year and I think just before the race of the year he was beaten again at Cadwell, this time on the 500, finishing second to Chatterton on his 350 Yamaha, I saw that one from Park Corner and witnessed Derek make the pass coming out of Charlies.

I have mentioned it before and found some evidence now in Colin Seeley's book: Rod Gould won the 1000 cc race at the Post TT Mallory meeting in '69 on his TR2, Ago was presumably on his 500 cc bike but suffered from a bad start.

Edited by Rennmax, 27 June 2011 - 07:44.

[Rennmax]

Well at the end of the day it's still Ago and who?

If you have witnessed the scene in the 68-71 period, you know that Ago was on far superior bikes which made racing sometimes look like a procession, so any 'David and Goliath' fight was highly appreciated. That takes nothing away from Ago's ability, he proved it often enough.

Edited by Rennmax, 27 June 2011 - 06:03.

[picblanc]

If you have witnessed the scene in the 68-71 period, you know that Ago was on far superior bikes which made racing sometimes look like a procession, so any 'David and Goliath' fight was highly appreciated. That takes nothing away from Ago's ability, he proved it often enough.

I go along with that Renn, great rider great bike, it was his time.

[Russell Burrows]

Ago was beaten back to 4th place at Cadwell in a 350 race by 1) Paul Smart 2) Tony Rutter 3) Derek Chatterton, later that year and I think just before the race of the year he was beaten again at Cadwell, this time on the 500, finishing second to Chatterton on his 350 Yamaha, I saw that one from Park Corner and witnessed Derek make the pass coming out of Charlies.

When I went to the paddock after that race the MV mechanics had a volt meter on the MV battery and the official story was that Ago had developed a misfire due to a flat battery, but I always wondered about the truth of that, I remember the mechanics did the same battery test with that meter over and over again as I stood watching for about 20 minutes, I may be cynical but it was as though they wanted to make sure as many people as possible saw what they were doing to convince the crowd Ago had a machine problem, after all he'd just been beaten by a national privateer on a TR2B

.....and few months later Bryan Hindle got his TR2 across the line ahead of Ago at Sydney's Oran Park.

[Herr Wankel]

I go along with that Renn, great rider great bike, it was his time.

I agree,Ago was the tops.I was never much of a fan as Hailwood was the God for me,but he was superb,and on the best bike.However,on the day John dug deep and pulled off a shock win.Yes it was his local track etc,etc,but you had to be a bit special to beat Ago.John is a true Derby lad,a good bloke and not at all full of **** like some were !!

HW

[fil2.8]

I agree,Ago was the tops.I was never much of a fan as Hailwood was the God for me,but he was superb,and on the best bike.However,on the day John dug deep and pulled off a shock win.Yes it was his local track etc,etc,but you had to be a bit special to beat Ago.John is a true Derby lad,a good bloke and not at all full of **** like some were !!

HW

Seconded

[Paul Collins]

Seconded

Yes at the end of the day Ago couldnt help the fact that he was on the best kit around at that time, he was hardly going to ask Count Agusta to build him something a little slower to make it more fun!!

Derek Chat was a real Cadwell specialist however and was absolutely flying that day.

[cheapracer]

That's no fair, John Cooper still lives in Derby has an interest in Bikes, he's a grand chap.

Err no, I meant the other guy, I am well aware of Mooneyes.

Hey no disrespect meant to the other guy either but I don't even know his name such is his place in history and that's just a fact. Anyone who plants his ass on a seat and tracks it is ok by me.

Saying Ago had the best bike, which he often did of course (but then which champions didn't have the best bike or best car) annoys me coming from people sometimes who have no idea of the conditions and tracks that they all rode under back then. That's not pointing at this thread or any posts in it either, I just mean the many times I've heard it in my lifetime from people who relate it to smooth tracks with run off areas they see today. They just can't imagine dropping a bike into a corner at 120mph with gravel thrown up from the lap before, broken edges, terrible bumpy inconsistent surfaces and a haybale in front of a tree/fence/house etc. 6 inches to the side not to mention the skinny rock hard tyres they were on.

And of course a few died along the way.

[picblanc]

Derek Chatterton did a few GP races mainly DutchTT @ Assen, but was a relitively unknown rider south of watford! Great racer though especially @ his home circuit Cadwell Park in my home county Lincolnshire.

[picblanc]

Derek Chatterton did a few GP races mainly DutchTT @ Assen, but was a relitively unknown rider south of watford! Great racer though especially @ his home circuit Cadwell Park in my home county Lincolnshire.

Derek @ Brands Hatch 1977.
Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

Edited by picblanc, 27 June 2011 - 20:32.

[Herr Wankel]

I go along with that Renn, great rider great bike, it was his time.

Its what made the Internationals in that era so good.Yes,the great Ago,yes,the great MV Agusta,and yes you just knew that one of the locals would fancy his chances.And where else can you see the modern GP stars without paying through the nose for 3 races and seeing a piss poor show in the premier class.

HW

[picblanc]

Ba humbug!!

[Herr Wankel]

Ba humbug!!

I know.I'm a sad old git !!!

HW

[fastfitter]

Derek Chatterton did a few GP races mainly DutchTT @ Assen, but was a relitively unknown rider south of watford! Great racer though especially @ his home circuit Cadwell Park in my home county Lincolnshire.

I remember going to Oulton Park years ago as the press said that Chat would be out on the then new TZ700. I was stood on the inside somewhere looking across towards Knicker Brook as the pack - mostly TZ 350s - came out of Shell on lap one in line astern. Suddenly one bike just pulled out of line and took six bikes in one go on the run down to Knicker and up towards Clay Hill - all pre silly chicanes of course. It was then that I was smitten by big multi strokers, a love that remains to this day

Edited by fastfitter, 28 June 2011 - 19:23.

[picblanc]

This one then, Derek's 700 & 385? Yamaha's @ Brands Hatch April 1974.


Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

Edited by picblanc, 28 June 2011 - 20:46.

[exclubracer]

This one then, Derek's 700 & 385? Yamaha's @ Brands Hatch April 1974.


Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

Nice pic Graham

Re the 385, as a matter of interest, does anyone know the bore/stroke of this capacity? I recall Charlie Williams having a 385 also.

[Paul Collins]

Not sure how they got the 385cc motors, but I ran a 373cc which was one TZ750 block stuck on a 350 bottom end, but at the time of the pic above the big Yam was a 700 so that wouldnt have been an option.

[exclubracer]

Not sure how they got the 385cc motors, but I ran a 373cc which was one TZ750 block stuck on a 350 bottom end, but at the time of the pic above the big Yam was a 700 so that wouldnt have been an option.

Hi Paul.
Yes, the 66.4mm bore mod was available later, I just wondered if it was a trick stroked out crank or one-off barrels or both.

[Paul Collins]

Hi Paul.
Yes, the 66.4mm bore mod was available later, I just wondered if it was a trick stroked out crank or one-off barrels or both.

Hi Mick

Well around that time a certain Mr Mehew was working for Derek as a mechanic at his shop, knowing Chris's genius for inventng and manufacturing things he was probably behind the 385 project.

[TZ350H]

I know.I'm a sad old git !!!

HW

Derek Chat was a superb rider and was breathtakingly fast at the NW200 and Ulster Grand Prix.

[greg1953]

Derek @ Brands Hatch 1977.
Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

Seeing Chat on an RG reminded me of a meeting at Snetterton, probably the Race of Aces ( late 70s ) when an RG rider crashed at Coram, the bike hit the banking , shed it's forks and flew high in the air before landing totally wrecked, rider appeared ok and I'm pretty sure it was Derek Chatterton or another rider in similar livery, anyone confirm this ???
Greg

[Paul Collins]

Seeing Chat on an RG reminded me of a meeting at Snetterton, probably the Race of Aces ( late 70s ) when an RG rider crashed at Coram, the bike hit the banking , shed it's forks and flew high in the air before landing totally wrecked, rider appeared ok and I'm pretty sure it was Derek Chatterton or another rider in similar livery, anyone confirm this ???
Greg

It was Derek, he snapped the front end off at the yokes, he got rid of the RG after that, said he couldnt get on with it, the bike eventually ended up with Ian Martin (Guys dad) It was certainly quick, i remember trying everything to hold Ian off at Cadwell in the East Midland Centre championship race some time later on that bike, it was reputed to be an ex Sheene Mk1 or 2, but so were quite a few others as we've discussed in the past

Edited by Paul Collins, 29 June 2011 - 22:13.