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Race Stewards - Inconsistency & Bias?


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Poll: What do you think? (160 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you think about the race stewards?

  1. Fair and/or Consistent (50 votes [31.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.25%

  2. Biased and/or Inconsistent (101 votes [63.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 63.12%

  3. Don't know. (9 votes [5.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.62%

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#51 Cenotaph

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 04:21

Don't you guys think there is a line to be drawn at some point? Don't you think that a driver sometimes takes things too far and changes from aggressive to reckless? There is a difference and penalties for stupid moves will always be necessary. There are inconsistencies and bad decisions but, imo, Hamilton/Monaco and Button/Canada were fair decisions.

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#52 DanardiF1

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 04:25

No the only reason for the hypocrisy is that the stewards are crooked and corrupt. There's no roundabout way

Hamilton was absolutely spot-on when he called them out in Monaco: we're dealing with a bunch of crooks and scoundrels who hate him cuz he's black.

Of course the consequence of all this is that the ONE person who had a real shot at catching Vettel is thwarted in this endeavor. And even Alonso is now back to square one.

Congratulations to Seb, the 2011 champion :o


But he was joking... he wasn't 'calling them out'... he was making a (bad) joke in frustration.

There's no evidence that the Stewards are 'crooked and corrupt', especially seeing as they're different at each race...

Take your tin foil hat off and go listen to what Lewis ACTUALLY says, rather than misinterpreting something and then preaching it as gospel, despite the auteur's subsequent explanations...

#53 Nasty McBastard

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 04:40

Hamilton fans are only slightly behind Alonso fans in the size of their persecution complex.

#54 DanardiF1

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 04:44

Hamilton fans are only slightly behind Alonso fans in the size of their persecution complex.


I dunno, they might have had a big upgrade this weekend...

#55 arrysen

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 04:54

They seem pretty consistent to me - or at least as consistent as different groups of people at different race tracks can be. The Stewards are not the same people at each race so some variation is to be expected but allowing for that, in my view they are being far more consistent and logical than has been the case at times in the past.

#56 FenderJaguar

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 07:20

Quite fair and consistent.

A lot of you would be better off to try and understand racing (which you really don't). Try and learn the difference between being clumsy (like Hamilton has been) and racing incidents like the one between Button and Alonso. It was obvious Button would not get a penalty.



#57 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 07:36

Definitely inconsistent, and most probably biased as well. Emerson coming out even before the race and criticizing Hamilton was kind of unprofessional, and extolling the virtues of Senna's cleanliness didn't exactly help his credibility. Anyway, most of such discussions would be moot if stewards didn't investigate every goddamn incident. It's like they're trying to legislate passing out of existence.

#58 D.M.N.

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 07:40

I've put fair and consistent, however the inconsistency argument can be applied depending on the weather. If the penalties were applies consistency in all weather conditions, you would be handing out penalties left right and centre in the wet. There's got to be a lot more leeway with regards to penalising drivers' in the wet.

#59 barrykm

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 08:01

Seeing the opinions on bulletin boards as to who is at fault and why, I think the stewards have a much better handle on it than the most vocal fans.


+1


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#60 iotar

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 08:28

Oh shut up and cry me a river. Inconstant&bias my a...

There's no way Button deserved penalty for Hamilton incident - they wouldn't give it even to Di Resta (yes they wouldn't give it Hamilton either). Hamilton run out of talent again. He creates dangerous situations by driving recklessly and is ruining other driver's races in the last two grand prix:
- Hamilton-Massa
- Hamilton-Maldonado
- Hamilton-Webber
- Hamilton-Button
- Hamilton-Schumacher (2 times)

See the pattern? There's no bias and stewards problems. Like always it's all about creating distraction from the real problem (Hamilton's driving) by blaming everyone else around and not your hero.
It's the same mentality, regardless of the driver/fanboys involved. Create stupid threads with bogus explanations. Boo hoo.
Do you even notice the real world (you know the one outside the internet)? Did you see reactions from many drivers, ex drivers (Lauda, Fittipaldi, Brundle, Coulthard and others), journalists, expert? Do you really think they ALL have no clue, are biased and hate Lewis because he's black?
Most of the time they acknowledge Hamilton's talent but then they tell it how it is. His driving level in the last two races was unacceptable.


#61 Alx09

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 08:30

Last year they got it right, tons of racing incidents no penalties.
For some reason this year I would love to know why, they have gone the opposite direction, it seems as if every contact is investigated with 90% of the televised ones been penalties.

Agreed.

#62 hunnylander

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 08:33

Biased and/or Inconsistent

That's the NATURE of the human beings, me included.

#63 seahawk

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 08:38

Inconsistent yes, biased no.

In fact they can only look at the video footage and the telemetry data, they can not look into the heads of the drivers. And I think Canada was ok for such a difficult race. In the end they must guess the intention if a driver caused a collision, or if a collision just happened. I think they did made understandable decisions in Canada.

Edited by seahawk, 13 June 2011 - 08:40.


#64 wrighty

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 09:26

Oh shut up and cry me a river. Inconstant&bias my a...

There's no way Button deserved penalty for Hamilton incident - they wouldn't give it even to Di Resta (yes they wouldn't give it Hamilton either). Hamilton run out of talent again. He creates dangerous situations by driving recklessly and is ruining other driver's races in the last two grand prix:
- Hamilton-Massa
- Hamilton-Maldonado
- Hamilton-Webber
- Hamilton-Button
- Hamilton-Schumacher (2 times)

See the pattern? There's no bias and stewards problems. Like always it's all about creating distraction from the real problem (Hamilton's driving) by blaming everyone else around and not your hero.


This with fries :up: :up:

What we've seen in the last two races is Hamilton becoming involved in six incidents because he's thrown his car into a pass and expected the guy ahead to read his mind and leave the space, and it only worked twice in 6 attempts (passing Maldonado and Schumacher in Monaco)....aside of those they all ended up with him getting the sh1tty end of the stick, either with a penalty or a retirement.
Part of me feels like the team should be sitting him down at the factory today to watch the race again so he can see that his team-mate won from a worse grid spot, but part of me knows that if he'd been in the position Button got to he would've just thrown the car at Vettel anyway and probably taken them both out so he was unlikely to win regardless.

Too much of a hurry, no patience, no common sense......lucky not to have been banned already :down:



.....and i'm a fan.

Edited by wrighty, 13 June 2011 - 09:27.


#65 karne

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 11:10

Lewis Hamilton wants to complain about the stewards - well, maybe he should take a closer look at his own attitude. He's not been up in front of the stewards so many times this year for funsies. He's been a one-man wrecking ball.

The incident with Webber was plain ridiculous. Webber gave him more than enough room - he practically left enough room for two cars - and Hamilton still hit him - then had the audacity to blame Webber for the crash! If Webber hadn't been spun around - he probably could have won that race.

Hamilton needs to grow a pair and start admitting his own mistakes. I started liking him last year when I thought he'd matured, but this is a major step backwards.



While we're on the topic, something I would love to see stamped out are these ridiculous Safety Car restarts where the leader backs up the pack to the point of crawling. Vettel did that three times today! On the first two occasions there were cars going everywhere as they tried not to overtake or hit each other. Button did it last year in China too and there have been a couple of other instances. It's extremely dangerous and I want to see it stopped. Your job as leader of the pack after the SC has gone in is to lead the pack, not try to make them crash behind you.

#66 Disgrace

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 11:22

Dries anyone else think the fia stewards r like traffic wardens -!paid per offence??? :-/ #F1 #BTCC


Funny how professional race drivers are beginning to say something as well. Dario Franchitti said all but the same thing (di Resta thread).

The stewards are a joke, even without Hamilton making it hard for himself. di Resta is the main case.

They're not inconsistent or biased, they're simply incompetent, leading to the impression of inconsistency and bias.

Edited by Disgrace, 13 June 2011 - 11:24.


#67 wrighty

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 11:46

The stewards are a joke, even without Hamilton making it hard for himself. di Resta is the main case.

They're not inconsistent or biased, they're simply incompetent, leading to the impression of inconsistency and bias.


Maybe but apparently the steward decisions after the race this weekend are clear and concise and logical.....and published :lol: so hopefully that's a decent precedent for the future in terms of the decisions made and the process.

#68 Tardis40

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 11:56

I don't know about biased, but definitely inconsistent.


#69 Disgrace

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 12:03

Maybe but apparently the steward decisions after the race this weekend are clear and concise and logical.....and published :lol: so hopefully that's a decent precedent for the future in terms of the decisions made and the process.


You're right. The Button/Hamilton and Button/Alonso explanations are what you say. But where's the di Resta explanation? They penalised him for a rookie error and losing his front wing without affecting anybody else.

They're quite happy to release the explanations for logical decisions, now what about the f*cktarded ones?

#70 wrighty

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 12:19

You're right. The Button/Hamilton and Button/Alonso explanations are what you say. But where's the di Resta explanation? They penalised him for a rookie error and losing his front wing without affecting anybody else.

They're quite happy to release the explanations for logical decisions, now what about the f*cktarded ones?


i don't know, i'll ask them when i see them next ;)

(hey, it's progress of a fashion, let's enjoy that in itself eh)

#71 Apollonius

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 12:22

By being inconsistent they set themselves up to be accused of being biased. Especially when refereeing officials come out with criticisms of a driver in the media before a race.

As I've said in other threads - in no other professional sport in the world would a refereeing official ever be allowed to state criticisms (and or praise) of a competitor within that sport and still be allowed to continue to officiate, regardless of that officials stature.
In Soccer for example the referees adhere to an ultra strict code of conduct to maintain the integrity and unbiased nature of the referees within the game and further to that they are constantly assessed and marked against there performance with poor decisions resulting in demotion to lesser leagues etc. Perhaps we need something similar in F1. The driver steward system clearly isn't working at all and neither is one man holding the bulk of the power - Charlie Whiting.



#72 jerriy

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 12:25

You're right. The Button/Hamilton and Button/Alonso explanations are what you say. But where's the di Resta explanation? They penalised him for a rookie error and losing his front wing without affecting anybody else.

They're quite happy to release the explanations for logical decisions, now what about the f*cktarded ones?

They are crooks and that necessitates them to be cowards.

That's why they're selective and beat the trumpets when they feel confident and keep low profile when they ran out of excuses.

#73 Coral

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 12:35

Wow, so much anti-Lewis vitriol on here. Very sad to see...it only goes to show that you're only as good as your last race.

I can't see for the life of me why Button wasn't penalised...he put two fellow drivers out of the race and got away scot-free! No different to what Lewis did in Monaco. Is Button immune from penalties or any criticism somehow? I don't understand it at all. And poor di Resta...does anyone care about his unfair penalty?

And as for the Lewis "fans" who are now finished with him, well that's fine, he doesn't need fair-weather fans like these. True fans like me are going nowhere.

#74 MPea3

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 12:37

The incident with Webber was plain ridiculous. Webber gave him more than enough room - he practically left enough room for two cars - and Hamilton still hit him - then had the audacity to blame Webber for the crash! If Webber hadn't been spun around - he probably could have won that race.


When did he do this? The interview I heard with him acknowledged that Webber had given him enough room and that he had slid into him anyway.

#75 Tsarwash

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 12:44

There were so many incidnets and so many investigations into them announced yesterday and I just cannot find the conclusions to any of them anywhere, so I cannot tell exactly. I think that the Paul di resta one is as unnecessary and shocking as the Alonso/Hamilton one from a few races ago. Both were stupid, clumsy moves. But in both cases the innocent one was not affected in any way, and the guilty one had already penalised themselves by having to go into the pits to get a new nose cone. I think that penalties do not need to be applied when the driver has already screwed up his own race.

I mean, does Heidfeld get a penalty for simply smashing into the back of Kobi ? By the stewards current standards, the fact that he took himself out of contention is just not relevant. If these standards had applied last year, Webber should have got a reprimand for Valencia last year.

#76 DaddyCool

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 12:50

It would be nice if fanboys and haters would look at the bigger picture for once.

Do you think Alonso should have been penalised in Malaysia?

Do you think Di Resta deserved yesterday's penalty? (and the one in Monaco?)

If yes why wasn't Koby penalised for spinnig out Sutil?

What about Webber's chops in the last 2 years?

Massa and Bourdais Fuji '08?

Is this what you call fair, consistent and objective stewarding?

What if Vettel would've crashed in the last lap only to have Button handed 1 or 2 25-sec penalties after the race? How would you feel?


#77 Tsarwash

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 12:51

The incident with Webber was plain ridiculous. Webber gave him more than enough room - he practically left enough room for two cars - and Hamilton still hit him - then had the audacity to blame Webber for the crash! If Webber hadn't been spun around - he probably could have won that race.

I smell Bullsh1t. I don't think that Hamilton has tried to blame Webber anywhere. Here is the relevant snippet form Hamilton from the Official F1 site.

I touched Mark’s (Webber) car after he braked a bit early into the first corner. He left me enough room, but I touched the inside kerb and understeered into him.


And according to the BBC Hamilton later apologised for the Webber incident. Here, bbc f1. So I would like to see you back up that allegation that Lewis tried to blame webber, please.

#78 karne

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 13:16

When did he do this? The interview I heard with him acknowledged that Webber had given him enough room and that he had slid into him anyway.


The interview I read had him saying that he thought Webber braked too early and turned across him.



.....Ah, wait a minute, I see. I had seen that quote in isolation, but I see now the line you saw after it on F1.com. All the same, I don't think Webber braked early, Hamilton was just a muppet.

#79 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 14:04

They messed up Button's first penalty so they even things up by letting him off subsequent speeding and collision charges.

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#80 mlsnoopy

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 14:06

These is old news. We know that stewards are inconsistent and bias.


#81 Fastcake

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 14:42

We need a permanent panel of stewards, it's ridiculous that we still have a member appointed by the local motor club, not to mention whoever the FIA decide to appoint (who admittedly have some more experience). Three permanent stewards each race, plus a driver consultant, would eliminate the rather inconsistent penalties we do get. I don't see any bias, at least not in the past few years, just some drivers get in the wars more than others.

Also, there is nothing wrong with having investigating every incident. I'll much rather the stewards look at every collision, then dismiss the majority as racing incidents, than pick some crashes but not others.

#82 ExFlagMan

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 15:56

Also, there is nothing wrong with having investigating every incident. I'll much rather the stewards look at every collision, then dismiss the majority as racing incidents, than pick some crashes but not others.

Unfortunately they do seem to be just picking some incidents and ignoring others.

For example
MSC clips back of LH into St Devote in Monaco - ignored.
Massa clips back of Webber out of St Devote in Monaco - ignored.
PDR clips back of Heidfeld into chicane in Montreal - drive thru penalty
Heidfeld hits back of Kobyashi in Montreal - no action.

#83 Tifosi90

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 15:57

What I find strange is that Di Resta got a penalty for destroying his own front wing and not damaging the renault in any way shape of form, yet when Button took out Hamilton & Alonso from the race he gets nothing.

I honestly don't know how Button got away with it against Alonso. Alonso was ahead coming into the corner and he gave a lot of space to Button.

Race Stewards are totally useless. Maybe Di Resta should have took the Renault out of the race and maybe then he would not have got a penalty. :rolleyes:



#84 Skanka

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 16:44

What I find strange is that Di Resta got a penalty for destroying his own front wing and not damaging the renault in any way shape of form, yet when Button took out Hamilton & Alonso from the race he gets nothing.

I honestly don't know how Button got away with it against Alonso. Alonso was ahead coming into the corner and he gave a lot of space to Button.

Race Stewards are totally useless. Maybe Di Resta should have took the Renault out of the race and maybe then he would not have got a penalty. :rolleyes:

I don't understand either why they're giving out penalties when such a case happens (Di Resta/Heidfeld). He lost his front wing so the damage is already done and he has not wrecked Heidfeld's car. So why the heck giving him a penalty? That's just silly. On the whole the stewards have been pathetic this year and for a good few years in general. If there's the slightest kind of contact between it will most of the time lead to an investigation and result in a penalty.

Let them race ffs. Thankfully we didn't have those stupid stewards decisions in the past (Panis/Irvine Monaco '96, Schumacher/Coulthard Argentina '98 etc...).


#85 Myrvold

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 19:53

Lewis has been in the stewards room often, he's been reprimanded, penalized. These drivers can easier be penalized later, because they have to show that they understand why they are penalized, and learn. That goes for Di Resta as well. He was penalized in Monaco, and did it again today. If he hadn't done anything in Monaco, I don't think he would've been penalized.