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GT drivers say LMPs too aggressive


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#1 ferruccio

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 03:59

GT drivers say LMPs too aggressive http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/92264

This would be interesting to discuss.

Do you agree?

I don't think the LMPs are getting faster against the GT compared to previous years. The ACO made sure of that. So it's probably due to the tough competition between Audi and Peugeot, causing their drivers to take higher risk.

The McNish incident relates to this but its a little hard to lay blame squarely on anyone. McNish is aggressive, confidently and that is the way he drives in previous Le Mans. No exception to this year. The Ferrari.. understandably did not expect him to be there.

On Rockenfeller crash.. it was not Rocky's fault. That one was clearly Kauffman's fault/inexperience and he was excluded from the race.

The Audi's lights were also blindingly bright... even in daytime. Did that contribute to Rocky's crash? I'm sure the headlights would have been discussed in pre-race briefings, if it posed a real problem



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#2 pingu666

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 04:16

I did see some aggressive moves in the porche curves

#3 johnmhinds

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 04:57

They were being a bit more aggressive this year, and there was a lot more passing in the corners.

I think they all need to take a step and realise that the GT guys are racing too, and flashing your lights and scaring the living crap out of everyone while barging past them left right and centre isn't going to win them any friends on the track.

#4 DanardiF1

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 05:11

They were being a bit more aggressive this year, and there was a lot more passing in the corners.

I think they all need to take a step and realise that the GT guys are racing too, and flashing your lights and scaring the living crap out of everyone while barging past them left right and centre isn't going to win them any friends on the track.



I think the relentless pace the Audis were having to set to gap the Pug's did lead to some aggressive behaviour, as did the Pug's themselves...

Those LEDs on the Audi are very confusing for all the other drivers, as they can been seen clearly from over a km away (according to Eurosport), so judging distance becomes a bit tricky. Add in the fact that the driver is being a bit lairy at times trying to get through them all, and it did seem a bit more like 'bullying' at times...

#5 Ali_G

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 05:13

How did the GT drivers treat the Aston Martin drivers ?

GT drivers can be aggressive too.

Edited by Ali_G, 13 June 2011 - 05:13.


#6 DanardiF1

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 05:15

How did the GT drivers treat the Aston Martin drivers ?

GT drivers can be aggressive too.


:p they weren't out there long enough...

I hear the marshalls gave them a tough time walking past them...

#7 Cenotaph

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 05:18

well the audis were agressive, they needed to be. there were some very fast gts there, only 15s away from prototypes.. I imagine this forced the lmp2 cars especially to be quite agressive in turns

#8 ferruccio

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 05:23

I think they all need to take a step and realise that the GT guys are racing too, and flashing your lights and scaring the living crap out of everyone while barging past them left right and centre isn't going to win them any friends on the track.


I wonder how is this any different from previous years? I don't think anything was different on the straights at least. Certainly there was more aggression through the corners. Treluyer attacking through Porsche curves was a little scary for me to watch and certainly the driver being overtaken. The Audi was certainly planted and stable through Porsche curves giving the driver lots of confidence.

We must remember that being over taken left right and centre is not exactly unique for le mans. It's common sight in many endurance races worldwide. Though yes, the nature of the la sarthe circuit does make it more complex.

Point is being constantly flashed at and overtaken suddenly is quite normal. Is there something at Le mans not seen elsewhere?

Edited by ferruccio, 13 June 2011 - 05:23.


#9 pingu666

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 05:51

apart from porche curves and maybe dunlopy bit, le mans is really good for multiclass, the prototypes run less wing so are quicker on the straights. on more normal tracks with higher df the prototypes dont have so much speed to pass on the straights.

i think with the GT cars they are more commited to a line than prototypes, the car gets in a "set" and its hard to change that. and the prototypes push air out to the sides too, so quite a big amount of upset areo for the gt car if in a corner

#10 krapmeister

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 05:53

I thought that some of the LMP's moves were pretty aggressive on the GT guys - especially the LMP1's - which seemed a bit odd to me, because it was like they had to get past so they wouldn't lose momentum due to them being woefully underpowered. Which despite them having lost some horsepower from last year, they - especially the diesels - obviously aren't. Like I said during the race, having 3 or 4 of these monsters bombing all around you at the Porsche curves for instance, must really scare the bejesus out of the GT guys and makes life awfully hard for them...

Edited by krapmeister, 13 June 2011 - 05:53.


#11 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 06:40

Well it's part of multi class endurance racing.

In two weeks time we go to Nordschleife which has nothing but 170 Porsche curves if you like and where the fastest GT-cars from Le Mans will share this track with 1600CC small compact racers and everything in between.

Endurance races is about a lot of things, including handling a lot of traffic both as a faster car and as a lapped car driving wih your mirrors.

#12 krapmeister

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 07:17

Well it's part of multi class endurance racing.

In two weeks time we go to Nordschleife which has nothing but 170 Porsche curves if you like and where the fastest GT-cars from Le Mans will share this track with 1600CC small compact racers and everything in between.

Endurance races is about a lot of things, including handling a lot of traffic both as a faster car and as a lapped car driving wih your mirrors.


True - just I can sympathise with the GT guys a bit when the LMP guys complain about the slower cars. Sometimes the faster guys don't leave much margin for error, when they perhaps don't need to be cutting it so close.


#13 ferruccio

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 07:30

True - just I can sympathise with the GT guys a bit when the LMP guys complain about the slower cars. Sometimes the faster guys don't leave much margin for error, when they perhaps don't need to be cutting it so close.


They complain when the slower driver does something erratic. Whilst they don't expect the slower driver to give up their race and move over just to let them through, they expect the slower driver to just stick to their lines so that they remain predictable while they find a way around them. This is the normal understanding in most if not all multi class endurance events.

The onus on overtaking is always on the faster car. It's his call and he pays the price when he gets it wrong

Edited by ferruccio, 13 June 2011 - 07:31.


#14 HappySachs

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 11:48

How did the GT drivers treat the Aston Martin drivers ?

GT drivers can be aggressive too.


I lol'd so hard :rotfl: :up:

#15 krapmeister

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 12:01

They complain when the slower driver does something erratic. Whilst they don't expect the slower driver to give up their race and move over just to let them through, they expect the slower driver to just stick to their lines so that they remain predictable while they find a way around them. This is the normal understanding in most if not all multi class endurance events.

The onus on overtaking is always on the faster car. It's his call and he pays the price when he gets it wrong


Not always the case - often the slower GT car gets caught up in it and pays a price as well...

#16 W154

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 12:53

Well it's part of multi class endurance racing.
In two weeks time we go to Nordschleife which has nothing but 170 Porsche curves if you like and where the fastest GT-cars from Le Mans will share this track with 1600CC small compact racers and everything in between.

Endurance races is about a lot of things, including handling a lot of traffic both as a faster car and as a lapped car driving wih your mirrors.

Yep, and it always has been. Only difference is the drivers of the tiny 750cc DB's' OSCA's and Lotus's in the 50's and 60's just got on with the job and kept a watch out for the monster 5litre Ferrari's and Maserati's.They didn't complain because they realistically knew what to expect because the speed differential was greater then than it is now. Perhaps some of the GT drivers are not the great drivers they think they are. :eek:

#17 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 13:00

Watched most of the race from the Porsche curves and the apex speed difference through there between the Audi/Pug LMP1 works car and even the LMP2's was pretty massive, nevermind the GT cars. The Audis were very aggressive in the opening laps, one of the Audis left the track at the inside of PC1 trying to get past a slower GT car within the opening stint and was lucky to be able to continue.

Audi's 2 crashes were probably proof of their aggression when wheel to wheel in traffic but as mentioned, this is multi class racing at the top level. Navigating slower cars is just as important as being fast, it's easy to ruin pretty much every lap of your race making the wrong passing moves as the top cars are lapping people every few corners at Le Mans.

The replays of Gene blocking the Audis whilst being lapped was pretty aggressive too so it wasn't just the Audis that were guilty. I heard Davidson's resistance to being lapped was pretty edgy too.

At the end of it all it it's all risk to reward ratio, the tiny winning margin was proof that Audi needed to be aggressive to win this year and it paid off. Better to win than come 2nd 3rd and 4th.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 13 June 2011 - 13:02.