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Safety car overuse


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Poll: Is safety car overused? (81 member(s) have cast votes)

Is safety car overused?

  1. Yes (70 votes [86.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 86.42%

  2. No (11 votes [13.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.58%

Vote

#1 Aloisioitaly

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 12:12

Yesterday, before last stint of race, SC has been out at least 5 laps longer than it needed to be.
Also Button told team radio he couldn't understand why in the hell the drivers weren't allowed to fight instead of slowly trailing SC.

What's your opionion? Is there an overuse of SC in F1?

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#2 Disgrace

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 12:16

The red flag was the right call, it was a flash monsoon like at the Nurburgring 2007.

The wrong calls were:

1. Safety car start.
2. Leaving the safety car out for an excess of laps at the start.
3. Leaving the safety car out before they red-flagged the race.
4. Leaving the safety car out after the restart for a further amount of laps.

See a theme? Racing laps are being wasted; it's either good to go racing (green) or not safe enough at all (red).

The drivers only need 1-2 laps to suss out the conditions, not 6-8.


So yes, it is being overused. The same issue has applied to Korea last season and China the year before that. If the race is too wet to start, delay it, don't run loads of laps behind the safety car. If it's dry enough, start the race proper.

#3 King Six

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 12:17

The only thing I agreed with was the red flag. And that doesn't involve a safety car. You only need it for a few laps, not half the race distance. Starting under the safety car was a massive no.

Edited by King Six, 13 June 2011 - 12:17.


#4 Tsarwash

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 12:19

Yes, Yes, Yes. In my opinion, the race should not have started under a safety car, and after the restart the safety car stayed out for five laps to long.

All of the commentators mentioned that the 24 best vehicles for removing excess water were sat on the grid. If spray really is that much of a problem then why not take two specific old F1 cars along to each race, and use them to clear the racing line if needed. You could increase the ride height to remove aquaplaning, and put unlimited downforce on so that they could run quite safely on the track at say 100 mph. It would not cost that much extra for each race. Yesterday was a joke, and while it was not all Charlies fault, something should be done.

It says on every ticket that you buy to these events,' Motor sports is dangerous....' Maybe it's been to long since Charlie had to buy a ticket and has forgotten that it says this.

Edit, also because of the new rules about how fast you can go to catch up the safety car, it actually takes over two laps for all of the cars to catch the safety car, which is patently ridiculous. It must be possible to implement speed limits for certain sectors of the lap from race control so that the drivers do not cause any danger to marshalls, while allowing them to bunch up within a single lap.

And, I thought that carbon fibre is pretty light. If the marshalls had a big focussed, f*ckoff fan next the the track, wouldn't they be able to just blow the carbon fibre off the racing line without having to go on the track ?

Edited by Tsarwash, 13 June 2011 - 12:23.


#5 Dunder

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 12:20

The period behind the safety car after the red flag was excessively long. Drivers were changing to intermediates immediately.

I would have preferred the race to have a normal standing start but visibility would have been close to zero so I can understand why that decision was taken.

#6 Sausage

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 12:22

I think we need a reminder here: This was the 2nd race with SC this year. At the usual tracks: Monaco and Montreal. It was 5 laps too long sure, but don't overreact.

#7 wattoroos

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 12:22

i would say the safety car is overused in wet conditions but it is fine in normal dry conditions, i think it was saying something when drivers instantly went for inters, maybe they need a more extreme wet with a higher ridde height, the thing is what is the point of having the cars go around under SC for 10 laps, when they could let them race as these are counted as race laps and the safety car was overused in this mornings race. maybe whiting should poll the drivers and go with the majority unless conditions are really that bad

#8 rdebourbon

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 12:27

So yes, it is being overused. The same issue has applied to Korea last season and China the year before that. If the race is too wet to start, delay it, don't run loads of laps behind the safety car. If it's dry enough, start the race proper.

:up: :up:
Absolutely agree with this post.

#9 Fastcake

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 13:18

The period behind the safety car after the red flag was excessively long. Drivers were changing to intermediates immediately.

I would have preferred the race to have a normal standing start but visibility would have been close to zero so I can understand why that decision was taken.


I agree. Far too long after the red flag, a few laps is easily enough. I would also question why it was out so quickly before the red flag, the track seemed to be good for another couple laps of racing, unless there was a large concentration of water somewhere we could not see. I also said in another thread, that the unknown quality of the Pirelli wets was a strong reason in a SC start.



#10 RenArto

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 13:22

Can they not do anything to improve visibility? Perhaps add a light to the top of the T-Bar or something?

#11 scheivlak

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 13:39

I think we need a reminder here: This was the 2nd race with SC this year. At the usual tracks: Monaco and Montreal. It was 5 laps too long sure, but don't overreact.

Exactly. Less than a month ago there was a thread about how suddenly there were no SC periods any more this year....

SC periods were OK with me yesterday, but the SC periods after both the start and especially the restart were too long.

#12 Tsarwash

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 14:03

Can they not do anything to improve visibility? Perhaps add a light to the top of the T-Bar or something?

They could probably introduce some kind of laser positioning and distance thingy so that the driver behind could get an exact indication of the position and distance of the driver in front, even in pitch dark situations, but I'm not sure how much difference this would make. there is only so much information the drivers can take in.


#13 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 14:05

Ya just wish there was no stupid wooden plank, and there were a greater ride height then this stupid aqua planing won't be an issue at all. But common sense in F1 is like the back side of the moon, we never see it lol.

#14 Rob

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 14:10

Ya just wish there was no stupid wooden plank, and there were a greater ride height then this stupid aqua planing won't be an issue at all. But common sense in F1 is like the back side of the moon, we never see it lol.


Also, if we got rid of the ridiculous parc fermé regulations then they could change to a wet setup. Forcing drivers to run in the wet on a dry setup is ridiculous.

#15 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 14:13

Also, if we got rid of the ridiculous parc fermé regulations then they could change to a wet setup. Forcing drivers to run in the wet on a dry setup is ridiculous.


Oh I hate parc fermé so much! I also miss sunday morning warm up. Yep I thought with time things should improve, not go from good to bad. All because MS was dominating. Well 1998 with slicks was the beginning of the true bs in f1 of course..in modern times.

ha! I meant with grooves...

Edited by Henrytheeigth, 13 June 2011 - 14:14.


#16 pingualoty

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 14:16

I think that the only overuse was the first start but the rest were justified. An example from the past where delaying the safety car led to many unnecessary issues was the 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix, there were 4 safety cars but still 4-5 cars aquaplaned off. That's what could/would have happened on the safety car before the red flag. So I would rather it be stopped than loads of cars falling off the track, that's not racing it's sailing.

#17 Fastcake

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 14:23

Ya just wish there was no stupid wooden plank, and there were a greater ride height then this stupid aqua planing won't be an issue at all. But common sense in F1 is like the back side of the moon, we never see it lol.

The wooden plank is there to stop them running the car to the ground - if it wasn't for that the teams would have the floors virtually touching, they'll be aqua planing in light drizzle.

What would be ideal is for Parc Ferme to be in effect until an hour before the race. That way we keep the current ban on qualifying spec cars, there won't be enough time to rebuild a car and especially to change engines, but cars can have their set-up adjusted for the race. At least then we'll be able to run in rain a bit better.

#18 CaptainJackSparrow

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 14:30

The SC stayed out way too long, I mean ppl had to switch to inters, sort of defeats the purpose of having extremes if the SC is going to be putting so many laps in.

#19 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 15:35

The wooden plank is there to stop them running the car to the ground - if it wasn't for that the teams would have the floors virtually touching, they'll be aqua planing in light drizzle.


Not if the rules stated that a minimum ride height had to be maintained? If possible. Yes I know all about under car downforce, no drag with that. Unlike with wings.

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#20 Fastcake

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 15:39

Not if the rules stated that a minimum ride height had to be maintained? If possible. Yes I know all about under car downforce, no drag with that. Unlike with wings.


That's what the wooden plank is for - to maintain a minimum ride height, too much wear and you're out.

#21 Umpire

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 15:40

It's been the case for a few years now, the SC basically stays on until the track is well into its drying phase. No room for extreme wets really.

#22 Longtimefan

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 15:41

Without a doubt yes, its getting to a crazy amount recently.


#23 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 15:41

That's what the wooden plank is for - to maintain a minimum ride height, too much wear and you're out.


But rain races are stuffed then. I meant like can't they measure it without a plank. I mean just raise the damn things.

#24 sharo

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 15:43

Definitely overused IMO.
On the other hand the organizers seem to not have enough cranes and small evacuation machines which can lift a car over the fence.

Maybe it's the age but Whiting and Co. are also overcautious.
The direction in which the technical regulations lead car development has made them unable to go on a wet surface. Once wet races were a special beauty of the formula.

Edited by sharo, 13 June 2011 - 15:47.


#25 Buttoneer

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 16:08

There is an Autosport poll for this now so with apologies to the OP, this one is being closed.

http://forums.autosp...howtopic=149668