45 replies to this topic

[Barry Boor]

TNF purists will, no doubt, throw their hands up in horror and their toys out of their prams but they don't have to look at this thread more than once. So....

...due to the restraints of size and shape, I cannot build a decent Spa in my shed, upon which to run my Belgian Grands Prix from earlier years. If I could be sure of the north Welsh weather I'd build it in the garden as I did many years ago but three dry days in a row? - you must be joking!

So, I am looking for a suitable alternative circuit on which to run my 1950-51 race. I ran my 1958 race at Gedinne but I know that is really a motor cycle circuit, so I am on the search for a suitable venue for the above series event.

Please DO NOT suggest Zolder or Nivelles - use a bit more imagination! But it must have been a real circuit at some point in time - preferably before 1959.

I should point out that my shed is roughly twice as long as it is wide, so a circuit of those approximate dimensions is the best bet..

Over to you, anoraks.

(If Twinny thinks this is inappropriate, I'm sure he will let me know.)

[MCS]

Ignoring the various layouts tried in the city of Brussels (or maybe not?), how about La Louviere or Namur?

[malcolm6]

Chimay - and the beers excellent

[Barry Boor]

I thought about Namur. But it's very short and rather twisty. La Louviere I do not know.

[Barry Boor]

I already have a race planned for Chimay - the Grand Prix des Frontieres.

[D-Type]

You just have to have faith in the forecasters. And to make sure, plant some flowers that must have rain and then apply some of the magic Lawn feed and Moss killer that you have to apply two days before rain for best results.

I was going to suggest Chimay

[Vitesse2]

Ignoring the various layouts tried in the city of Brussels (or maybe not?)...

But then he'd have to build a model Atomium!

There's the circuit used in Antwerp in 1938 and 1939, but that's really only a rather boring parallelogram. Probably equally uninteresting: Wandre-Monsin at Liège - a sort of "Avus on a curve" with hairpins at each end. Never used, due to some bloke called Hitler.

[Tim Murray]

Mettet?

[NPP]

Here's a list of Belgian tracks available for the GPL racing simulation: http://gpltd.bcsims....amp;send=Search

The Jéhonville track which was originally a motorcycle track on real roads would be quite interesting.

[harbee]

Why not Oulton Park, almost authentic, as it was talked about as a venue for the real Belgium GP in 1967.

[LittleChris]

Mons ought to be a good fit Barry.

[Barry Boor]

Mons is the one I thought of - before I started this thread, but it's not a definite yet.

I looked at the Belgian Legends circuits but they are nearly all fantasy tracks. I don't do fantasy tracks - I get no pleasure driving on a track shape that doesn't or indeed, never existed.

Edited by Barry Boor, 23 June 2011 - 07:50.

[Rob Semmeling]

The Rennen! Races! Vitesse! pdf-file on my website lists over 120 Belgian circuits (pages 45-65), so take your pick!

Besides the most obvious candidates already mentioned - Chimay, Mettet, Mons, Antwerp, Brussels, Liège - might I suggest Thuin? And if your garden is too small for Spa, I guess Bastogne is out of the question! Perhaps Floreffe will fit? A motorcycles-only circuit yes, but a very nice one at that.

[chdphd]

Here's a list of Belgian tracks available for the GPL racing simulation: http://gpltd.bcsims....amp;send=Search

I pick Moulinsart simply for this poster

[Roger Clark]

What is wrong with Le Circuit des Ardennes?

[Vitesse2]

What is wrong with Le Circuit des Ardennes?

I think Barry might need a bigger garden for that. Or possibly about half of Anglesey, depending if he does it to a decent scale.

[DogEarred]

Or DSJ's beloved Jabbeke stretch of motorway - would save a lot of time & effort...

[LittleChris]

Mons is the one I thought of - before I started this thread, but it's not a definite yet.

I looked at the Belgian Legends circuits but they are nearly all fantasy tracks. I don't do fantasy tracks - I get no pleasure driving on a track shape that doesn't or indeed, never existed.

La famille Hall are off to Belgium then France as part of our annual camping beano in Europe in a couple of weeks so might see if Mons can be included in our itinerary

[fbarrett]

It usually rains at Spa, so just build it outside.

Frank

[Barry Boor]

Got a feeling the cars won't run too well.....

[D-Type]

Take yourself to B&Q and buy a "value" dust sheet pack - two 5x4 polythene sheets. The same as I'll be using when camping near the Goodwood Festival (under the tent to keep it clean).

Build your Spa

Then follow the recommendations in post #6 - if they don't work then use the polythene sheet.


But anyway wait until Wimbledon is over.

Edited by D-Type, 23 June 2011 - 22:55.

[wenoopy]

Take yourself to B&Q and buy a "value" dust sheet pack - two 5x4 polythene sheets. The same as I'll be using when camping near the Goodwood Festival (under the tent to keep it clean).

Build your Spa

Then follow the recommendations in post #6 - if they don't work then use the polythene sheet.


But anyway wait until Wimbledon is over.

It would appear to me that a shed floor would have the ideal topography for a circuit like Koksijde(Coxyde), although I agree it is outside the ideal period. Within your time criteria would be the two circuits used at Leopoldville in 1956 and 1958 of 14.0 and 2.43 km respectively. At the time they were on Belgian territory, albeit somewhat remote.

[Stefan Schmidt]

My choice: Chimay

[Barry Boor]

Stefan, check post #5. I had Chimay down as a possible for my 1959 Belgian Grand Prix, then I discovered that in 1959, there wasn't one!

I think I am definitely going with Mons. It just suits my space so nicely. Now to check on Google street view to see if it went up and down at all.

[Allan Lupton]

I think I am definitely going with Mons. It just suits my space so nicely. Now to check on Google street view to see if it went up and down at all.

Since Mons is French for Bergen and both mean mountains, or at least hills, it jolly well should have gone up and down.

Edited by Allan Lupton, 24 June 2011 - 07:57.

[D-Type]

Why not just use something resembling the modern shortened Spa? Circa 1959 it would probably have been feasible using existing roads (I think, without checking)

[LittleChris]

The link from Les Combes to just before Blanchimont was an entirely new road carved out of the existing countryside AFAIK.

[D-Type]

The link from Les Combes to just before Blanchimont was an entirely new road carved out of the existing countryside AFAIK.

I'm sure you are right.

I've done a search but couldn't find it, but I am sure that someone posted an old (WW2 vintage) map of the area a while back. If memory serves me correctly (which these days is not always the case) there were several minor roads or country lanes crossing the infield and one of them could have been improved sufficiently to provide a shortened circuit to 1959 standards. Not necessarily the same as the present circuit but with the same idea of retaining La Source and Eau Rouge.

[Barry Boor]

This is an interesting idea. If I could actually see an example of the map you are talking about, Duncan, it would deserve serious consideration.

[D-Type]

It was a while ago so I expect it is now a red X and probably on one of the threads that is temporarily not accessible.

[Tim Murray]

All the old posts have been restored, Duncan. There's a good US Army wartime map of the area found by MPea3 and posted in a couple of threads, including the link he posted in this one:

The full size scan of the map can be found here. The map is a "War and Navy Department" map showing a 1939 date with a 1942 revision.

[LittleChris]

I think the map posted by Lole on Sept 13th at 19.39 on the same thread is even better since it shows a post war version of the circuit. Think it must be sometime after 1956 since Malmedy is comparatively straight whereas I believe it was quite a slowish corner before the big tidy up that took place at that time. Not sure about the spelling of Burnenville though

[D-Type]

Barry, sorry about the blind alley - there aren't any suitable roads or lanes you could adopt.

Edited by D-Type, 24 June 2011 - 21:22.

[Barry Boor]

Duncan, you are soooo wrong!

Just go to Google Earth and examine it carefully. In the centre of the lower section of the old circuit there are farms. Now, surely these farms are not new. And for every farm there is a road into and out of the area. I have created a circuit using the old track from just before Stavelot round to just after the current Les Combes esses. Thereafter, it works its way across country until it reaches the Masta Straight just before the entrance to Stavelot.

I have taken a few liberties and straightened out one or two sections around the farms as it would be impractical to build such tight corners given my space limitations.

Here is what I came up with:



I must thank you all for taking so much interest in what is clearly actually a load of old tat!

Edited by Barry Boor, 24 June 2011 - 21:59.

[LittleChris]

Right, now we've got our teeth into it, which country next please Barry ?

[Catalina Park]

I saw a video of a 24 hour 2CV race at Spa that used a variation of the circuit that I had never seen before. http://www.youtube.c...tailpage#t=161s

While I don't think it would suit Barry it may be of interest for hysterical or historical purposes.

[David McKinney]

Very weird

Presumably there was a no-passing rule when they were using the service road...

[Barry Boor]

Right, now we've got our teeth into it, which country next please Barry ?

Well, seeing that you've asked, Chris.... Germany! (Same problems as with Spa)

[Rob Semmeling]

I posted a 1961 topographical map of Spa here:

http://forums.autosp...w...94324&st=80

[LittleChris]

Well, seeing that you've asked, Chris.... Germany! (Same problems as with Spa)

How about the Deutschlandring built for the 1940 GP but never used for obvious reasons.

Alternatively Aachen ( or maybe Findel just over the border in Luxemburg could hold the German GP since the Nurburg Erstz-ring recently held the Luxemburg GP )!!

[Allan Lupton]

Well, since the 9 km. Grenzlandring could be said to look like an entry-level Scalextric track, what about that?:

[D-Type]

Well, since the 9 km. Grenzlandring could be said to look like an entry-level Scalextric track, what about that?:

Sudschleife or Solitude with a little simplification
or add a DDR GP at Oscherleben (admittedly it's a bit Micky Mouse)

[D-Type]

Well, since the 9 km. Grenzlandring could be said to look like an entry-level Scalextric track, what about that?:

Sudschleife or Solitude with a little simplification
or add a DDR GP at Oscherleben (admittedly it's a bit Micky Mouse)

[Pablo Vignone]

Barry
With due respect, will be any available streaming of this Belgian Grand Prix?
I would certainly leave everything to see that!!!!

What about Heysel?

Edited by Pablo Vignone, 25 June 2011 - 18:42.

[Barry Boor]

Well, actually, chaps, I have both the Sudschleife and Solitude available:





But in both cases they are rather cramped in my 20 x 10 shed, especially Solitude. I will look at other possibilities but I rather thing the Southern 'Ring will be the choice

Edited by Barry Boor, 25 June 2011 - 19:12.

[D-Type]

I heard you the first time, Duncan!

Whoops! Slow connection. I could delete the second one then nobody would know what it was about. So I'll have to leave my messup for perpetuity